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True Lightroom replacement

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JudyN said:
MallardDuck said:
Plus, from the leaked project nimbus, I expect the next iteration of Lightroom to be cloud only, which is a complete non starter. My library is multiple terabytes, and I regularly import and catalogue 50-100gb of files nightly while on a shoot. News flash to adobe and Apple and company: In the real world capped <10mbps network connections (at best) are common, and traveling is often worse.
Click to expand...
Sometimes I think it's only me... We have two houses and neither of them have internet speeds that could support my using the cloud to store my images. I do back up to the cloud, but that is slow. I suppose everyone else lives in cities with cable internet that still works fast enough? We in the boonies cannot do this... Only DSL is available where we live in Wimberley Texas and we get 3 Mbps max, usually less than 2.5 Mbps, sometimes WAY less.... In Rockport, Texas I just tested it at 8Mbps. Sometimes it gets to 10 which we consider blindingly fast...

Besides, I don't want to work this way.
Click to expand...
 
I honestly don't know what I'm going to do at this point. I just downloaded the trials for several programs (C1, DxO, On1, Luminar) but I'm not really "feeling it" with any of them. I really want to keep the Nikon colors, so the only way to do that seem to be to use NXD or use the camera calibrations in LR.

If I had to switch, from what I've seen so far, I'd probably go C1, but I don't really care for the default rendering. It looks like a good program, but I'm just not feeling the need to spend $300. I'm not in a hurry, so I guess I will just keep using LR standalone for now.

BTW, did anyone see the other thread on here saying that if you update LR6 (standalone) to the latest version, you automatically get subscribed?
 
brianric said:
Robert A said:
brianric said:
My opinion is given time Adobe will eliminate Lightroom Classic CC and force everyone to Lightroom CC. I've been with Adobe since Photoshop 3.0 and started with Lightroom from the first time Lightroom was released. I just downloaded a trail of Capture One 10, and will probable buy it outright. Once I feel comfortable with Capture One it will be goodbye Adobe. I'll reinstall Photoshop 6 for those few times that I need Photoshop, which is rare.
Click to expand...
How do you think Adobe would push photographers to such a scaled back product? I agree, the "classic" name has me concerned, but I don't see how they'l convince photographers to migrate less powerful than LR6, unless of course, they plan to add the complete feature set later on.
Click to expand...
That's exactly what they are going to do.
Click to expand...
I am looking at Adobe's FAQs and this doesn't look as bad as it's made out to be. Basically, the CC version still allows files to be stored locally. Yes, I get that it's a rental setup and they can jack the price and shut you off anytime. But you still have your files. Moreover, if Classic is discontinued and CC is developed sufficiently enough to replace it, how are we worse off than today? Again, I get it -- it's a rental so it costs more.

--
----------------
Robert A
Fuji XT-2
Fuji X-E2
Epson 3880
 
Last edited:
Robert A said:
brianric said:
Robert A said:
brianric said:
My opinion is given time Adobe will eliminate Lightroom Classic CC and force everyone to Lightroom CC. I've been with Adobe since Photoshop 3.0 and started with Lightroom from the first time Lightroom was released. I just downloaded a trail of Capture One 10, and will probable buy it outright. Once I feel comfortable with Capture One it will be goodbye Adobe. I'll reinstall Photoshop 6 for those few times that I need Photoshop, which is rare.
Click to expand...
How do you think Adobe would push photographers to such a scaled back product? I agree, the "classic" name has me concerned, but I don't see how they'l convince photographers to migrate less powerful than LR6, unless of course, they plan to add the complete feature set later on.
Click to expand...
That's exactly what they are going to do.
Click to expand...
I am looking at Adobe's FAQs and this doesn't look as bad as it's made out to be. Basically, the CC version still allows files to be stored locally. Yes, I get that it's a rental setup and they can jack the price and shut you off anytime. But you still have your files. Moreover, if Classic is discontinued and CC is developed sufficiently enough to replace it, how are we worse off than today? Again, I get it -- it's a rental so it costs more.
Click to expand...
It's not the programme rental that is the issue (at least, not for me). It is the imposed rental for cloud storage space. With LR CC as currently released, you must upload every photograph to Adobe's cloud. And, if you exceed their free allowance, you have to pay $10/TB/month in additional charges. Plus, there is the cost of my increased Internet traffic, the extreme time involved for the uploads, etc. CC does allow you to keep copies locally but you still must upload them too.

As with others, I think that Adobe will be adding most (if not all) of the Classic features to the new LR CC. Then, Classic will be discontinued. Likely in two years. As long as the final LR CC programme allows user control of uploading, that model could well be reasonable.

But, by not providing information about the future path, releasing a crippled LR CC and refusing to allow users control over uploads, Adobe has created a mess for the present.
 
nbirkett said:
Robert A said:
brianric said:
Robert A said:
brianric said:
My opinion is given time Adobe will eliminate Lightroom Classic CC and force everyone to Lightroom CC. I've been with Adobe since Photoshop 3.0 and started with Lightroom from the first time Lightroom was released. I just downloaded a trail of Capture One 10, and will probable buy it outright. Once I feel comfortable with Capture One it will be goodbye Adobe. I'll reinstall Photoshop 6 for those few times that I need Photoshop, which is rare.
Click to expand...
How do you think Adobe would push photographers to such a scaled back product? I agree, the "classic" name has me concerned, but I don't see how they'l convince photographers to migrate less powerful than LR6, unless of course, they plan to add the complete feature set later on.
Click to expand...
That's exactly what they are going to do.
Click to expand...
I am looking at Adobe's FAQs and this doesn't look as bad as it's made out to be. Basically, the CC version still allows files to be stored locally. Yes, I get that it's a rental setup and they can jack the price and shut you off anytime. But you still have your files. Moreover, if Classic is discontinued and CC is developed sufficiently enough to replace it, how are we worse off than today? Again, I get it -- it's a rental so it costs more.
Click to expand...
It's not the programme rental that is the issue (at least, not for me). It is the imposed rental for cloud storage space. With LR CC as currently released, you must upload every photograph to Adobe's cloud. And, if you exceed their free allowance, you have to pay $10/TB/month in additional charges. Plus, there is the cost of my increased Internet traffic, the extreme time involved for the uploads, etc. CC does allow you to keep copies locally but you still must upload them too.

As with others, I think that Adobe will be adding most (if not all) of the Classic features to the new LR CC. Then, Classic will be discontinued. Likely in two years. As long as the final LR CC programme allows user control of uploading, that model could well be reasonable.

But, by not providing information about the future path, releasing a crippled LR CC and refusing to allow users control over uploads, Adobe has created a mess for the present.
Click to expand...
 
MallardDuck said:
For a few reasons I'm starting the hunt for a Lightroom alternative. The immediate issue is the lack of support for the d850. I refuse to convert to dng and lose information into an adobe-focused format ....
Click to expand...
a. Seems like every time a new camera is released, there is some delay for retouching software programs to be updated to support the RAW. Personally, I just always plan for this, even that it is unfortunate.

b. A lot of people love to use Capture One. I know that it has very advanced color editing features which can be used to edit skin tone. Also the RAW conversion is almost uniformly praised as being superior to that of Adobe. The dissenters (regarding RAW conversion) argue that C1 is just adding more saturation whereas Adobe presents you with a flatter image as a starting point.

I tether with C1 and do the raw conversion & edit in LR/PS. I often notice that the photographs look more beautiful presented during tethering in C1than the starting point that I subsequently get from Adobe.

Art M Altman
www.artmaltman.photography

Art M. Altman

Art M Altman Photography -- Headshots, Portraits, Events & Performances
www.artmaltman.photography www.artmaltman.photography
 
brianric said:
My opinion is given time Adobe will eliminate Lightroom Classic CC and force everyone to Lightroom CC. I've been with Adobe since Photoshop 3.0 and started with Lightroom from the first time Lightroom was released. I just downloaded a trail of Capture One 10, and will probable buy it outright. Once I feel comfortable with Capture One it will be goodbye Adobe. I'll reinstall Photoshop 6 for those few times that I need Photoshop, which is rare.
Click to expand...
Exactly right. I moved to C1Pro when they announced the original LRCC. Although their business model is not right for me, or you it seems, from a pure business viewpoint it's genius. The lock in at the moment is strong, by the time they improve LRCC (Cloud) features and can move everyone to that it truly will be a captive market.

Personally I used LR since V1 so am a little disappointed with where Adobe has gone, but business is business.

If you are looking at C1Pro you do need to bear in mind it is not LR. By this I mean that if you approach it with a LR mind set you will find it difficult.

You see people saying where is the whites and blacks slider? C1Pro is more like PS. It relies on tools like levels and curves. LRCC Classic has a colour selection mode that C1Pro has had for a while and is more sophisticated. C1 uses actual layers for its local adjustments. You also get the option of working in catalogues or direct with the files in sessions. Or work initially in sessions and then import the culled, rated photos into your master catalogue. There is no separate "develop" and "library" modules, which I found such a relief after LR.

Also the interface is fully customisable. This is challenging because when you, as I had, spent many years using tools with a fixed UI you have to make an effort to adjust. I see people criticise the C1 UI but they haven't attempted to adjust it to what they want because this was never an option previously.

The up shot of this is that C1Pro is expensive, it is a "pro" product, and you will need to put some effort into understanding how and why it works as it does.

Another, rather more cost effective, alternative to LR is ACDSee Ultimate 2018. This product is more a direct competitor to LR and you might want to consider that option. It has been around for a long time and flies under the radar. Glen Barrington, on these forums, speaks highly of it having replaced LR with it.

Ian
 
nbirkett said:
Robert A said:
brianric said:
Robert A said:
brianric said:
My opinion is given time Adobe will eliminate Lightroom Classic CC and force everyone to Lightroom CC. I've been with Adobe since Photoshop 3.0 and started with Lightroom from the first time Lightroom was released. I just downloaded a trail of Capture One 10, and will probable buy it outright. Once I feel comfortable with Capture One it will be goodbye Adobe. I'll reinstall Photoshop 6 for those few times that I need Photoshop, which is rare.
Click to expand...
How do you think Adobe would push photographers to such a scaled back product? I agree, the "classic" name has me concerned, but I don't see how they'l convince photographers to migrate less powerful than LR6, unless of course, they plan to add the complete feature set later on.
Click to expand...
That's exactly what they are going to do.
Click to expand...
I am looking at Adobe's FAQs and this doesn't look as bad as it's made out to be. Basically, the CC version still allows files to be stored locally. Yes, I get that it's a rental setup and they can jack the price and shut you off anytime. But you still have your files. Moreover, if Classic is discontinued and CC is developed sufficiently enough to replace it, how are we worse off than today? Again, I get it -- it's a rental so it costs more.
Click to expand...
It's not the programme rental that is the issue (at least, not for me). It is the imposed rental for cloud storage space. With LR CC as currently released, you must upload every photograph to Adobe's cloud. And, if you exceed their free allowance, you have to pay $10/TB/month in additional charges. Plus, there is the cost of my increased Internet traffic, the extreme time involved for the uploads, etc. CC does allow you to keep copies locally but you still must upload them too.

As with others, I think that Adobe will be adding most (if not all) of the Classic features to the new LR CC. Then, Classic will be discontinued. Likely in two years. As long as the final LR CC programme allows user control of uploading, that model could well be reasonable.

But, by not providing information about the future path, releasing a crippled LR CC and refusing to allow users control over uploads, Adobe has created a mess for the present.
Click to expand...
 
borax said:
Don't be naive. Working from the cloud is a marketing message. Good for some, bad for others... the real reason why Adobe is moving to the cloud is to put an end to its softwares piracy. No more people using PS without paying for it. In some way, they understood that many people couldn't pay hundreds of dollars for one soft, so now they're asking a somehow more reasonable 10$/month subscription. Witch is a good move for PS users... bad one for LR users.
Click to expand...
Not quite right. Creative Cloud has been around for a while but Photoshop remains one of the most pirated pieces of software out there. And for good reason: it is that good.
 
yanisha said:
MallardDuck said:
I rely heavily on the library, develop, and printing modules. Maps are nice, slideshows are once in a blue moon. Already have autopanogiga, photo matix, and helicon for pano, hdr and focus work.
Click to expand...
Lightroom, ACDSee Pro, and Aftershot Pro are similar programs. I think Darktable and Digikam are fairly similar too, but I haven't used them. All of these programs are a combination of a raw photo processor, non-destructive editor, and simple DAM. I think On1 Photo Raw may also have all 3 of these primary functions. Note that ACDSee also has a fairly sophisticated integrated bit-map editor (the Ultimate version adds layers to it).
Click to expand...
If you look into the FOSS stuff - Darktable and Digikam - make sure you also checkout Rawtherapee.
 
IanYorke said:
brianric said:
My opinion is given time Adobe will eliminate Lightroom Classic CC and force everyone to Lightroom CC. I've been with Adobe since Photoshop 3.0 and started with Lightroom from the first time Lightroom was released. I just downloaded a trail of Capture One 10, and will probable buy it outright. Once I feel comfortable with Capture One it will be goodbye Adobe. I'll reinstall Photoshop 6 for those few times that I need Photoshop, which is rare.
Click to expand...
Exactly right. I moved to C1Pro when they announced the original LRCC. Although their business model is not right for me, or you it seems, from a pure business viewpoint it's genius. The lock in at the moment is strong, by the time they improve LRCC (Cloud) features and can move everyone to that it truly will be a captive market.

Personally I used LR since V1 so am a little disappointed with where Adobe has gone, but business is business.

If you are looking at C1Pro you do need to bear in mind it is not LR. By this I mean that if you approach it with a LR mind set you will find it difficult.

You see people saying where is the whites and blacks slider? C1Pro is more like PS. It relies on tools like levels and curves. LRCC Classic has a colour selection mode that C1Pro has had for a while and is more sophisticated. C1 uses actual layers for its local adjustments. You also get the option of working in catalogues or direct with the files in sessions. Or work initially in sessions and then import the culled, rated photos into your master catalogue. There is no separate "develop" and "library" modules, which I found such a relief after LR.

Also the interface is fully customisable. This is challenging because when you, as I had, spent many years using tools with a fixed UI you have to make an effort to adjust. I see people criticise the C1 UI but they haven't attempted to adjust it to what they want because this was never an option previously.

The up shot of this is that C1Pro is expensive, it is a "pro" product, and you will need to put some effort into understanding how and why it works as it does.

Another, rather more cost effective, alternative to LR is ACDSee Ultimate 2018. This product is more a direct competitor to LR and you might want to consider that option. It has been around for a long time and flies under the radar. Glen Barrington, on these forums, speaks highly of it having replaced LR with it.

Ian
Click to expand...
Thanks. I'm going to try the trial of ACDsee. Like you mentioned, C1 is fairly different from LR.
 
ISOhappy said:
IanYorke said:
brianric said:
My opinion is given time Adobe will eliminate Lightroom Classic CC and force everyone to Lightroom CC. I've been with Adobe since Photoshop 3.0 and started with Lightroom from the first time Lightroom was released. I just downloaded a trail of Capture One 10, and will probable buy it outright. Once I feel comfortable with Capture One it will be goodbye Adobe. I'll reinstall Photoshop 6 for those few times that I need Photoshop, which is rare.
Click to expand...
Exactly right. I moved to C1Pro when they announced the original LRCC. Although their business model is not right for me, or you it seems, from a pure business viewpoint it's genius. The lock in at the moment is strong, by the time they improve LRCC (Cloud) features and can move everyone to that it truly will be a captive market.

Personally I used LR since V1 so am a little disappointed with where Adobe has gone, but business is business.

If you are looking at C1Pro you do need to bear in mind it is not LR. By this I mean that if you approach it with a LR mind set you will find it difficult.

You see people saying where is the whites and blacks slider? C1Pro is more like PS. It relies on tools like levels and curves. LRCC Classic has a colour selection mode that C1Pro has had for a while and is more sophisticated. C1 uses actual layers for its local adjustments. You also get the option of working in catalogues or direct with the files in sessions. Or work initially in sessions and then import the culled, rated photos into your master catalogue. There is no separate "develop" and "library" modules, which I found such a relief after LR.

Also the interface is fully customisable. This is challenging because when you, as I had, spent many years using tools with a fixed UI you have to make an effort to adjust. I see people criticise the C1 UI but they haven't attempted to adjust it to what they want because this was never an option previously.

The up shot of this is that C1Pro is expensive, it is a "pro" product, and you will need to put some effort into understanding how and why it works as it does.

Another, rather more cost effective, alternative to LR is ACDSee Ultimate 2018. This product is more a direct competitor to LR and you might want to consider that option. It has been around for a long time and flies under the radar. Glen Barrington, on these forums, speaks highly of it having replaced LR with it.

Ian
Click to expand...
Thanks. I'm going to try the trial of ACDsee. Like you mentioned, C1 is fairly different from LR.
Click to expand...
Yes, although I use it and think it's great I don't always recommend it. It is Pro price and Pro focussed with it's PS approach rather than sliders. I don't think we will ever see HDR, pano, books etc in C1Pro.:-)

ACDSee looks like a good product. Well established and although I have no experience of it, Glenn Barrington speaks highly of it as an ex LR user, and I respect his opinion.

Ian
 
IanYorke said:
ACDSee looks like a good product. Well established and although I have no experience of it, Glenn Barrington speaks highly of it as an ex LR user, and I respect his opinion.
Click to expand...
ACDSee is currently only a Windows product. A Mac version is available for Beta testing. But, when released, it will not be offering the full range of features in the top-of-the-line Windows version. Of course, if you are using a Windows computer, this is a non-issue :-)
 
nbirkett said:
IanYorke said:
ACDSee looks like a good product. Well established and although I have no experience of it, Glenn Barrington speaks highly of it as an ex LR user, and I respect his opinion.
Click to expand...
ACDSee is currently only a Windows product. A Mac version is available for Beta testing. But, when released, it will not be offering the full range of features in the top-of-the-line Windows version. Of course, if you are using a Windows computer, this is a non-issue :-)

--
Nick
Click to expand...
Yes, I am on Win 10 FCU. This recent poll shows I am in the majority as well :-)



2dba40831c3242ec94c94ce0e641a841.jpg
 
I currently use LR 6 just for 2 main things:

1. Tether shooting and printing for the photobooth at wedding reception

2. Catalog files with plug-ins. I only export files to PS for editing.

So far, I'll be fine with this old version of LR, but will not be if I plan to upgrade to new camera later on.

So, I'm in the same boat, but a bit different route - I'm searching for another SW that I can catalog, sending files to PS (back and forth) for editing, and tether shooting. Then, I can get rid of LR

THanks.
 
aquavideo said:
borax said:
Don't be naive. Working from the cloud is a marketing message. Good for some, bad for others... the real reason why Adobe is moving to the cloud is to put an end to its softwares piracy. No more people using PS without paying for it. In some way, they understood that many people couldn't pay hundreds of dollars for one soft, so now they're asking a somehow more reasonable 10$/month subscription. Witch is a good move for PS users... bad one for LR users.
Click to expand...
Not quite right. Creative Cloud has been around for a while but Photoshop remains one of the most pirated pieces of software out there. And for good reason: it is that good.
Click to expand...
Are you trolling ?

I know how Adobe products can be good, but even most recent PS CS versions are going old, and won't benefit from new features PS CC (or competition software) can get. I still use LR 4, but I do know my software lacks more and more interesting features every year. And if you want these new features, you will have to get a subscription. Piracy won't help anymore.

It's a long term move from Adobe witch will produce effects long after the 4 first years (4 years, meaning nothing).
 
borax said:
Are you trolling ?
Click to expand...
Lolwut?
borax said:
I know how Adobe products can be good, but even most recent PS CS versions are going old, and won't benefit from new features PS CC (or competition software) can get.
Click to expand...
Uuuhhmm ......... Nope. That is such strange wording that I can't begin to explain what's wrong with it.
borax said:
I still use LR 4, but I do know my software lacks more and more interesting features every year. And if you want these new features, you will have to get a subscription. Piracy won't help anymore.
Click to expand...
In that case I invite you to do on online search on some of the more famous file-sharing sites. I can guarantee that you will find Lightroom and Photoshop CC. Maybe not the version that was just released but give it a couple weeks.
borax said:
It's a long term move from Adobe witch will produce effects long after the 4 first years (4 years, meaning nothing).
Click to expand...
Uuuhhmm .........The subscription model has already been in place since june 2014. Just not for Lightroom. Until now. And tons of things can happen in 4 years.
 
aquavideo said:
borax said:
Are you trolling ?
Click to expand...
Lolwut?
aquavideo said:
I know how Adobe products can be good, but even most recent PS CS versions are going old, and won't benefit from new features PS CC (or competition software) can get.
Click to expand...
Uuuhhmm ......... Nope. That is such strange wording that I can't begin to explain what's wrong with it.
aquavideo said:
I still use LR 4, but I do know my software lacks more and more interesting features every year. And if you want these new features, you will have to get a subscription. Piracy won't help anymore.
Click to expand...
In that case I invite you to do on online search on some of the more famous file-sharing sites. I can guarantee that you will find Lightroom and Photoshop CC. Maybe not the version that was just released but give it a couple weeks.
aquavideo said:
It's a long term move from Adobe witch will produce effects long after the 4 first years (4 years, meaning nothing).
Click to expand...
Uuuhhmm .........The subscription model has already been in place since june 2014. Just not for Lightroom. Until now. And tons of things can happen in 4 years.
Click to expand...
You will find on these file sharing websites old versions of PS, and it will be the same in some years with LR. Again, piracy won't help you find state of the art Adobe softwares.

PS CC has been released in 2013... 4 years ago. You definitely seem to have understanding troubles.
 
borax said:
You will find on these file sharing websites old versions of PS, and it will be the same in some years with LR. Again, piracy won't help you find state of the art Adobe softwares.
Click to expand...
Sorry you're wrong. But then I'm not here to convince you so I'll leave it at that.
borax said:
PS CC has been released in 2013... 4 years ago. You definitely seem to have understanding troubles.
Click to expand...
Nope. Just a typo. My apologies.
 
Anyone try Alien Skin's Exposure X3? Wonder how it compares to LR? The film emulation presets sound interesting.
 
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