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Who said film is dead?

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Marty4650 said:
"At least 30 albums sold more than 10,000 copies in 2016, a stark contrast to 2007 when digital downloads began to take hold and a meagre total of 200,000 LPs were sold overall."

And that is a very respectable increase over the prior year, but nothing near the sales levels vinyl records enjoyed at their peak around 40 years ago. Back then, literally HUNDREDS of albums sold over 10,000 copies, and more than 30 sold over a million copies.

vinylunits-1.jpg


--
Marty
http://www.fluidr.com/photos/marty4650/sets/72157606210120132
http://www.flickr.com/photos/marty4650/sets/72157606210120132/show/
my blog: http://marty4650.blogspot.com/
Click to expand...
You obviously missed the point, vinyl isn't "dead" either.
 
tbcass said:
500,000,000 in 1975 vs 10,000 in 2007. I'd say Vinyl is not doing well at all but it's still there. There are still people who still do glass plates, tin type and daguerreotype photography so I guess nothing ever dies completely.

--
Tom
Look at the picture, not the pixels
Click to expand...
Except it's 2017, in case you hadn't noticed.

More than 3.2m LPs were sold last year, a rise of 53% on last year and the highest number since 1991 when Simply Red’s Stars was the bestselling album. This was also the first year that spending on vinyl outstripped that spent on digital downloads.
 
SpinOne said:
absquatulate said:
SpinOne said:
absquatulate said:
Ellis Vener said:
Q: "Who said film is dead?"

A: The lack of reliable film processing labs now that so many of them have gone out of business

Ellis Vener
To see my work please visit http://www.ellisvener.com
And follow me on instagram at therealellisv
Click to expand...
Another rubbish answer, they now live online, and plenty of people process their own film. Your answer equates to "I can't buy vinyl records locally...vinyl is dead" or other nonsense.
Click to expand...
Uh... yes, vinyl is a marginalized niche product, that is a shadow of its former self, and is primarily a hipster affectation and a nostalgia play. An excellent example.
Click to expand...
Being wrong once is bad enough, but twice? see if you can go for a hat-trick ;-)
Click to expand...
You first.

140516-vinyl-riaa.jpg


Vinyl sales were already near zero in 1991. The increases only look huge, because we're comparing it to near-zero numbers. (This is why percentage growth is often a deceptive measure.) Getting back to 1991 levels would be sort of like saying "typewriter sales were the best since 2001!"

Vinyl album sales could increase by 1.5 million a year, and still take 200 years to get back to 1978 levels.

So if we want to avoid the "death" metaphor: Vinyl records are a marginalized niche product, a shadow of its former sales figures, and is primarily a hipster affectation and a nostalgia play.
Click to expand...
More than 3.2m LPs were sold last year, a rise of 53% on last year and the highest number since 1991 when Simply Red’s Stars was the bestselling album. This was also the first year that spending on vinyl outstripped that spent on digital downloads.

I don't think I need to add anything more than that except to say digital downloads must be really dead ;-)
 
activator said:
Vinyl sales are less than 5% of sales in the music market.

Film & film cameras even less in the image making market...possibly less than 1%.

But keep plugging away convincing yourself that we are all going back to film and that it is not on its last legs.
Click to expand...
You keep misinterpreting what I've said....that'll work. If you have to be disingenuous then you must be losing the argument ;-)
 
absquatulate said:
SpinOne said:
absquatulate said:
SpinOne said:
absquatulate said:
Ellis Vener said:
Q: "Who said film is dead?"

A: The lack of reliable film processing labs now that so many of them have gone out of business

Ellis Vener
To see my work please visit http://www.ellisvener.com
And follow me on instagram at therealellisv
Click to expand...
Another rubbish answer, they now live online, and plenty of people process their own film. Your answer equates to "I can't buy vinyl records locally...vinyl is dead" or other nonsense.
Click to expand...
Uh... yes, vinyl is a marginalized niche product, that is a shadow of its former self, and is primarily a hipster affectation and a nostalgia play. An excellent example.
Click to expand...
Being wrong once is bad enough, but twice? see if you can go for a hat-trick ;-)
Click to expand...
You first.

140516-vinyl-riaa.jpg


Vinyl sales were already near zero in 1991. The increases only look huge, because we're comparing it to near-zero numbers. (This is why percentage growth is often a deceptive measure.) Getting back to 1991 levels would be sort of like saying "typewriter sales were the best since 2001!"

Vinyl album sales could increase by 1.5 million a year, and still take 200 years to get back to 1978 levels.

So if we want to avoid the "death" metaphor: Vinyl records are a marginalized niche product, a shadow of its former sales figures, and is primarily a hipster affectation and a nostalgia play.
Click to expand...
More than 3.2m LPs were sold last year, a rise of 53% on last year and the highest number since 1991 when Simply Red’s Stars was the bestselling album. This was also the first year that spending on vinyl outstripped that spent on digital downloads.

I don't think I need to add anything more than that except to say digital downloads must be really dead ;-)
Click to expand...
Most people use streaming services these days instead of buying digital music. That's a different stat than "digital downloads". And the sad part for the record industry is that a lot of those services can't be as easily monetized as an album sale (2/3 a penny a play vs $1 for an itunes download). So while revenue from streaming is about equal to records and digital download sales, it represents a huge majority of their customers and actual music consumption.

But yes, I think paying for individual music downloads is nearly dead too.
 
Last edited:
tkbslc said:
absquatulate said:
SpinOne said:
absquatulate said:
SpinOne said:
absquatulate said:
Ellis Vener said:
Q: "Who said film is dead?"

A: The lack of reliable film processing labs now that so many of them have gone out of business

Ellis Vener
To see my work please visit http://www.ellisvener.com
And follow me on instagram at therealellisv
Click to expand...
Another rubbish answer, they now live online, and plenty of people process their own film. Your answer equates to "I can't buy vinyl records locally...vinyl is dead" or other nonsense.
Click to expand...
Uh... yes, vinyl is a marginalized niche product, that is a shadow of its former self, and is primarily a hipster affectation and a nostalgia play. An excellent example.
Click to expand...
Being wrong once is bad enough, but twice? see if you can go for a hat-trick ;-)
Click to expand...
You first.

140516-vinyl-riaa.jpg


Vinyl sales were already near zero in 1991. The increases only look huge, because we're comparing it to near-zero numbers. (This is why percentage growth is often a deceptive measure.) Getting back to 1991 levels would be sort of like saying "typewriter sales were the best since 2001!"

Vinyl album sales could increase by 1.5 million a year, and still take 200 years to get back to 1978 levels.

So if we want to avoid the "death" metaphor: Vinyl records are a marginalized niche product, a shadow of its former sales figures, and is primarily a hipster affectation and a nostalgia play.
Click to expand...
More than 3.2m LPs were sold last year, a rise of 53% on last year and the highest number since 1991 when Simply Red’s Stars was the bestselling album. This was also the first year that spending on vinyl outstripped that spent on digital downloads.

I don't think I need to add anything more than that except to say digital downloads must be really dead ;-)
Click to expand...
Most people use streaming services these days instead of buying digital music. That's a different stat than "digital downloads". And the sad part for the record industry is that a lot of those services can't be as easily monetized as an album sale (2/3 a penny a play vs $1 for an itunes download). So while revenue from streaming is about equal to records and digital download sales, it represents a huge majority of their customers and actual music consumption.

But yes, I think paying for individual music downloads is nearly dead too.
Click to expand...
9th consecutive year that vinyl has grown, that's some "death"....
 
absquatulate said:
SpinOne said:
absquatulate said:
SpinOne said:
absquatulate said:
Ellis Vener said:
Q: "Who said film is dead?"

A: The lack of reliable film processing labs now that so many of them have gone out of business

Ellis Vener
To see my work please visit http://www.ellisvener.com
And follow me on instagram at therealellisv
Click to expand...
Another rubbish answer, they now live online, and plenty of people process their own film. Your answer equates to "I can't buy vinyl records locally...vinyl is dead" or other nonsense.
Click to expand...
Uh... yes, vinyl is a marginalized niche product, that is a shadow of its former self, and is primarily a hipster affectation and a nostalgia play. An excellent example.
Click to expand...
Being wrong once is bad enough, but twice? see if you can go for a hat-trick ;-)
Click to expand...
You first.

140516-vinyl-riaa.jpg


Vinyl sales were already near zero in 1991. The increases only look huge, because we're comparing it to near-zero numbers. (This is why percentage growth is often a deceptive measure.) Getting back to 1991 levels would be sort of like saying "typewriter sales were the best since 2001!"

Vinyl album sales could increase by 1.5 million a year, and still take 200 years to get back to 1978 levels.

So if we want to avoid the "death" metaphor: Vinyl records are a marginalized niche product, a shadow of its former sales figures, and is primarily a hipster affectation and a nostalgia play.
Click to expand...
More than 3.2m LPs were sold last year, a rise of 53% on last year and the highest number since 1991 when Simply Red’s Stars was the bestselling album. This was also the first year that spending on vinyl outstripped that spent on digital downloads.

I don't think I need to add anything more than that except to say digital downloads must be really dead ;-)
Click to expand...
Sony is investing in a new pressing plant. Another has opened in Canada. Sales increases look to be of the same % again this year.

Downloads do appear to be dead. Streaming has decimated CD and downloads.

Not that it matters. Because sales of some thing are down from peaks, it does not mean it is dead. Friends I have at two film production companies are still seeing increases. I was involved in testing a new film from a new line last year. Some of us have information that these forum webexperts are not aware of. That is why I laugh when I see the thumbs up for them. I dont care though...I have lots of film and film cameras to use, and do more workshops all the time for people using film.

DSLRs are dead though.
 
activator said:
Vinyl sales are less than 5% of sales in the music market.

Film & film cameras even less in the image making market...possibly less than 1%.

But keep plugging away convincing yourself that we are all going back to film and that it is not on its last legs.
Click to expand...
Dude, what's it to you? I haven't shot film since 2003, but I'm still glad it's still around, and I'm still glad people shoot it. I don't care if it makes up 1% of sales or 50% of sales.
 
The Davinator said:
absquatulate said:
SpinOne said:
absquatulate said:
SpinOne said:
absquatulate said:
Ellis Vener said:
Q: "Who said film is dead?"

A: The lack of reliable film processing labs now that so many of them have gone out of business

Ellis Vener
To see my work please visit http://www.ellisvener.com
And follow me on instagram at therealellisv
Click to expand...
Another rubbish answer, they now live online, and plenty of people process their own film. Your answer equates to "I can't buy vinyl records locally...vinyl is dead" or other nonsense.
Click to expand...
Uh... yes, vinyl is a marginalized niche product, that is a shadow of its former self, and is primarily a hipster affectation and a nostalgia play. An excellent example.
Click to expand...
Being wrong once is bad enough, but twice? see if you can go for a hat-trick ;-)
Click to expand...
You first.

140516-vinyl-riaa.jpg


Vinyl sales were already near zero in 1991. The increases only look huge, because we're comparing it to near-zero numbers. (This is why percentage growth is often a deceptive measure.) Getting back to 1991 levels would be sort of like saying "typewriter sales were the best since 2001!"

Vinyl album sales could increase by 1.5 million a year, and still take 200 years to get back to 1978 levels.

So if we want to avoid the "death" metaphor: Vinyl records are a marginalized niche product, a shadow of its former sales figures, and is primarily a hipster affectation and a nostalgia play.
Click to expand...
More than 3.2m LPs were sold last year, a rise of 53% on last year and the highest number since 1991 when Simply Red’s Stars was the bestselling album. This was also the first year that spending on vinyl outstripped that spent on digital downloads.

I don't think I need to add anything more than that except to say digital downloads must be really dead ;-)
Click to expand...
Sony is investing in a new pressing plant. Another has opened in Canada. Sales increases look to be of the same % again this year.

Downloads do appear to be dead. Streaming has decimated CD and downloads.

Not that it matters. Because sales of some thing are down from peaks, it does not mean it is dead. Friends I have at two film production companies are still seeing increases. I was involved in testing a new film from a new line last year. Some of us have information that these forum webexperts are not aware of. That is why I laugh when I see the thumbs up for them. I dont care though...I have lots of film and film cameras to use, and do more workshops all the time for people using film.

DSLRs are dead though.
Click to expand...
Apparently "dead" actually means increasing sales...who knew?
 
activator said:
Vinyl sales are less than 5% of sales in the music market.

Film & film cameras even less in the image making market...possibly less than 1%.

But keep plugging away convincing yourself that we are all going back to film and that it is not on its last legs.
Click to expand...
Nobody has said we are going back to film. Not sure where you made that up.

Fuji sales are less than 5% of the digital market. They must be dead...according to your logic.

As far as on somethings last legs...it appears it is you. When companies are investing in something...film...LPs...they are doing it because it is profitable. Not because it is dead. That is a fact.
 
absquatulate said:
More than 3.2m LPs were sold last year,
Click to expand...
I'm an amateur musician BTW and music is my passion, more so than photography. I remember when a single album would sell as many as 3 million. 3.2 million is 0.06% of that peak 500 million. Vinyl is not dead put it's sales are still a minor blip.
 
absquatulate said:
tkbslc said:
absquatulate said:
SpinOne said:
absquatulate said:
SpinOne said:
absquatulate said:
Ellis Vener said:
Q: "Who said film is dead?"

A: The lack of reliable film processing labs now that so many of them have gone out of business

Ellis Vener
To see my work please visit http://www.ellisvener.com
And follow me on instagram at therealellisv
Click to expand...
Another rubbish answer, they now live online, and plenty of people process their own film. Your answer equates to "I can't buy vinyl records locally...vinyl is dead" or other nonsense.
Click to expand...
Uh... yes, vinyl is a marginalized niche product, that is a shadow of its former self, and is primarily a hipster affectation and a nostalgia play. An excellent example.
Click to expand...
Being wrong once is bad enough, but twice? see if you can go for a hat-trick ;-)
Click to expand...
You first.

140516-vinyl-riaa.jpg


Vinyl sales were already near zero in 1991. The increases only look huge, because we're comparing it to near-zero numbers. (This is why percentage growth is often a deceptive measure.) Getting back to 1991 levels would be sort of like saying "typewriter sales were the best since 2001!"

Vinyl album sales could increase by 1.5 million a year, and still take 200 years to get back to 1978 levels.

So if we want to avoid the "death" metaphor: Vinyl records are a marginalized niche product, a shadow of its former sales figures, and is primarily a hipster affectation and a nostalgia play.
Click to expand...
More than 3.2m LPs were sold last year, a rise of 53% on last year and the highest number since 1991 when Simply Red’s Stars was the bestselling album. This was also the first year that spending on vinyl outstripped that spent on digital downloads.

I don't think I need to add anything more than that except to say digital downloads must be really dead ;-)
Click to expand...
Most people use streaming services these days instead of buying digital music. That's a different stat than "digital downloads". And the sad part for the record industry is that a lot of those services can't be as easily monetized as an album sale (2/3 a penny a play vs $1 for an itunes download). So while revenue from streaming is about equal to records and digital download sales, it represents a huge majority of their customers and actual music consumption.

But yes, I think paying for individual music downloads is nearly dead too.
Click to expand...
9th consecutive year that vinyl has grown, that's some "death"....
Click to expand...
I put $10 in the stock market and it made 50% interest last year. I'm still broke.
 
Last edited:
absquatulate said:
More than 3.2m LPs were sold last year, a rise of 53% on last year and the highest number since 1991 when Simply Red’s Stars was the bestselling album.
Click to expand...
And again, matching 1991 numbers is meaningless.
Member said:
This was also the first year that spending on vinyl outstripped that spent on digital downloads.

I don't think I need to add anything more than that except to say digital downloads must be really dead ;-)
Click to expand...
sigh

Since you failed to notice it: The article is talking about the UK, and is referring to "tracks/albums purchased digitally." I.e. it's not referring to streaming services (and Youtube), which have soared in popularity, and are largely replacing digital downloads.

What about the US? The RIAA shows a slightly different picture. For 2016, vinyl sales were up a whopping... 4%, to $430 million. Digital revenues were $5.7 billion.

Digital downloads are falling, but still blow away vinyl sales -- $876 million for digital albums, $907 million for single tracks ($1.8 billion total). This is a significant drop from $2.8 billion just three years earlier.

So where's the money, Lebowski? It's in streaming. For the US: In 2011, streaming was only 9% of sales; in 2016, it was 51%.

http://www.riaa.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/RIAA-2016-Year-End-News-Notes.pdf

The takeaway isn't that vinyl is growing by leaps and bounds. It isn't. It's that digital downloads are collapsing rapidly.

In other words: Yes. Digital downloads are dying.

By the way, half of vinyl buyers? Yeah, they don't listen to the albums they purchase. Vinyl records are now sold in stores like Urban Outfitters and Whole Foods(!). Those buyers aren't listeners, they are collectors, hipsters, and nostalgia enthusiasts. They are the manual typewriter sitting in a corner for show. That is just another indicator of how marginalized they've become. https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2016/04/14/icm-poll-48-of-people-who-buy-vinyl-dont-listen-to-it/
 
Last edited:
The Davinator said:
Sony is investing in a new pressing plant. Another has opened in Canada. Sales increases look to be of the same % again this year.
Click to expand...
Vinyl sales increased 4% in 2016 in the US. That's not screaming growth.
The Davinator said:
Downloads do appear to be dead. Streaming has decimated CD and downloads....
Click to expand...
So, it's OK to refer to verified sales of $1.8 billion as "dead," but not OK to refer to film using the same metaphor?
The Davinator said:
Not that it matters. Because sales of some thing are down from peaks, it does not mean it is dead.
Click to expand...
Again, does that mean you prefer phrases like "tiny niche" or "marginalized" or "hipster affectation?" 'Cause those are more accurate, but don't sound much better.
The Davinator said:
Friends I have at two film production companies are still seeing increases. I was involved in testing a new film from a new line last year. Some of us have information that these forum webexperts are not aware of.
Click to expand...
Uh huh fascinating

You offer us statistics you can't cite, "insider information" you can't repeat, and anecdotes no one can prove. Meanwhile, public figures show miniscule growth, manufacturers aren't putting out new film cameras, and the best selling film is a gimmicky instant camera. Who is that supposed to impress, exactly...?
 
tkbslc said:
absquatulate said:
tkbslc said:
absquatulate said:
SpinOne said:
absquatulate said:
SpinOne said:
absquatulate said:
Ellis Vener said:
Q: "Who said film is dead?"

A: The lack of reliable film processing labs now that so many of them have gone out of business

Ellis Vener
To see my work please visit http://www.ellisvener.com
And follow me on instagram at therealellisv
Click to expand...
Another rubbish answer, they now live online, and plenty of people process their own film. Your answer equates to "I can't buy vinyl records locally...vinyl is dead" or other nonsense.
Click to expand...
Uh... yes, vinyl is a marginalized niche product, that is a shadow of its former self, and is primarily a hipster affectation and a nostalgia play. An excellent example.
Click to expand...
Being wrong once is bad enough, but twice? see if you can go for a hat-trick ;-)
Click to expand...
You first.

140516-vinyl-riaa.jpg


Vinyl sales were already near zero in 1991. The increases only look huge, because we're comparing it to near-zero numbers. (This is why percentage growth is often a deceptive measure.) Getting back to 1991 levels would be sort of like saying "typewriter sales were the best since 2001!"

Vinyl album sales could increase by 1.5 million a year, and still take 200 years to get back to 1978 levels.

So if we want to avoid the "death" metaphor: Vinyl records are a marginalized niche product, a shadow of its former sales figures, and is primarily a hipster affectation and a nostalgia play.
Click to expand...
More than 3.2m LPs were sold last year, a rise of 53% on last year and the highest number since 1991 when Simply Red’s Stars was the bestselling album. This was also the first year that spending on vinyl outstripped that spent on digital downloads.

I don't think I need to add anything more than that except to say digital downloads must be really dead ;-)
Click to expand...
Most people use streaming services these days instead of buying digital music. That's a different stat than "digital downloads". And the sad part for the record industry is that a lot of those services can't be as easily monetized as an album sale (2/3 a penny a play vs $1 for an itunes download). So while revenue from streaming is about equal to records and digital download sales, it represents a huge majority of their customers and actual music consumption.

But yes, I think paying for individual music downloads is nearly dead too.
Click to expand...
9th consecutive year that vinyl has grown, that's some "death"....
Click to expand...
I put $10 in the stock market and it made 50% interest last year. I'm still broke.
Click to expand...
Don't put it into digital downloads next time....they're "dead".
 
SpinOne said:
absquatulate said:
More than 3.2m LPs were sold last year, a rise of 53% on last year and the highest number since 1991 when Simply Red’s Stars was the bestselling album.
Click to expand...
And again, matching 1991 numbers is meaningless.
Click to expand...
So a rise of 53% is "dead"?
SpinOne said:
SpinOne said:
This was also the first year that spending on vinyl outstripped that spent on digital downloads.

I don't think I need to add anything more than that except to say digital downloads must be really dead ;-)
Click to expand...
sigh

Since you failed to notice it: The article is talking about the UK, and is referring to "tracks/albums purchased digitally." I.e. it's not referring to streaming services (and Youtube), which have soared in popularity, and are largely replacing digital downloads.
Click to expand...
No I didn't fail to notice anything, I'm in the UK, it's a UK newspaper.
SpinOne said:
What about the US? The RIAA shows a slightly different picture. For 2016, vinyl sales were up a whopping... 4%, to $430 million. Digital revenues were $5.7 billion.
Click to expand...
So 430 million equals "dead" does it?
SpinOne said:
Digital downloads are falling, but still blow away vinyl sales -- $876 million for digital albums, $907 million for single tracks ($1.8 billion total). This is a significant drop from $2.8 billion just three years earlier.

So where's the money, Lebowski? It's in streaming. For the US: In 2011, streaming was only 9% of sales; in 2016, it was 51%.

http://www.riaa.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/RIAA-2016-Year-End-News-Notes.pdf

The takeaway isn't that vinyl is growing by leaps and bounds. It isn't. It's that digital downloads are collapsing rapidly.

In other words: Yes. Digital downloads **are** dying.
Click to expand...
You're clearly not very smart, at no time have I made a case for Vinyl outselling anything else, nor have I predicted it will, I've stated that obviously it's not "dead" because it very obviously isn't.
SpinOne said:
By the way, half of vinyl buyers? Yeah, they don't listen to the albums they purchase. Vinyl records are now sold in stores like Urban Outfitters and Whole Foods(!). Those buyers aren't listeners, they are collectors, hipsters, and nostalgia enthusiasts.
Click to expand...
Brilliant, so you've rounded off your argument against nothing I've ever stated by making a bunch of stuff up...imagine my shock.
SpinOne said:
They are the manual typewriter sitting in a corner for show. That is just another indicator of how marginalized they've become. https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2016/04/14/icm-poll-48-of-people-who-buy-vinyl-dont-listen-to-it/
Click to expand...
I wouldn't put much faith in a poll which doesn't even state the sample size, especially in the UK, with their recent track record, but either way it's a strawman, who cares what people do with it? the point is that they're buying it, obviously nobody told them it's "dead".
 
absquatulate said:
SpinOne said:
absquatulate said:
More than 3.2m LPs were sold last year, a rise of 53% on last year and the highest number since 1991 when Simply Red’s Stars was the bestselling album.
Click to expand...
And again, matching 1991 numbers is meaningless.
Click to expand...
So a rise of 53% is "dead"?
Click to expand...
I prefer "marginalized niche nostalgia product, mostly for hipsters." Let's use "hipster bait" for short.

Plus, a 4% rise in the US, and half of UK buyers using them for decoration, definitely means "hipster bait."
Member said:
No I didn't fail to notice anything, I'm in the UK, it's a UK newspaper.
Click to expand...
Apparently you did, because what's happening in the UK doesn't match global or US results, and the UK is a small market.
Member said:
Member said:
What about the US? The RIAA shows a slightly different picture. For 2016, vinyl sales were up a whopping... 4%, to $430 million. Digital revenues were $5.7 billion.
Click to expand...
So 430 million equals "dead" does it?
Click to expand...
"Hipster bait."

And yes. As a random point of comparison, Americans spend around $13 billion on coffee per year. $430m is a rounding error in American spending.
Member said:
Member said:
Yes. Digital downloads **are** dying.
Click to expand...
You're clearly not very smart, at no time have I made a case for Vinyl outselling anything else, nor have I predicted it will, I've stated that obviously it's not "dead" because it very obviously isn't.
Click to expand...
Actually, you suggested "digital downloads are dead" to refute the idea that "vinyl is dead." Well, guess what? Digital downloads are dying. What does that tell us about vinyl's status...?
Member said:
Member said:
By the way, half of vinyl buyers? Yeah, they don't listen to the albums they purchase. Vinyl records are now sold in stores like Urban Outfitters and Whole Foods(!). Those buyers aren't listeners, they are collectors, hipsters, and nostalgia enthusiasts.
Click to expand...
Brilliant, so you've rounded off your argument against nothing I've ever stated by making a bunch of stuff up...imagine my shock.
Click to expand...
<< rolleyes >>

No, I didn't make anything up. It's a survey done by ICM, apparently with the BBC, and reported widely.

Loading…

www.bbc.com

The Guardian is on board with the claim, too, and even found a proud collector:

Loading…

www.theguardian.com

Nor am I impressed by your attacking a poll mostly because you don't like the conclusion.
 
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