Who said film is dead?

The Davinator · Oct 19, 2017

absquatulate said:
T3 said:

Glen Barrington said:

tbcass said:

This is a cost effective and intriguing camera.

https://www.adorama.com/fjgf670.htm...ge+& Active Users reco&utm_content=chrome_ff&

--
Tom
Look at the picture, not the pixels

Click to expand...

even for film cameras

https://www.dpreview.com/news/43310...an-new-fujifilm-gf670-folding-cameras-on-sale

Click to expand...

"Successful"? You can't really measure a camera like this based on market share or sales volume because it was always a niche camera. How "successful" were Fujifilm GX617 panorama cameras? Or how about the Fujifilm GW690? What kind of "market share" did they have? Are these cameras really out for market share and high sales volumes? No! These are all unique niche cameras catering to a unique niche user. Their "success" really has to be measured by how well they pleased those unique niche users, rather than on shear sales volume. Not everything is about shear sales numbers. If that was the sole motivation for a company like Fujifilm, we would have never gotten such unique, special, off-the-beaten-path cameras.

You can't even make any judgement on it based on the fact that it was discontinued either because every film camera from Canon and Nikon are discontinued too!

Click to expand...

I have a mint condition GW690II and I love that bad boy.

Should be fun being able to load some new, dead Ektachrome in it soon.

SpinOne · Oct 19, 2017

absquatulate said:
SpinOne said:

I agree the "death" metaphor is overused, but I doubt you'd prefer more accurate terms and descriptions like "marginalized," "hipster affectation," "outdated technology," "analog dinosaur," "shadow of its former self".... ;-)

Click to expand...

You can use whatever description you like, but "dead" is plainly ludicrous when new emulsions are still being released and sales are increasing.

"Hipster Affectation" it is, then. ;-)

Member said:
Film was and is far less about the gear than digital.

Hahahahaha

Member said:
You don't need endless new camera models being released to shoot film.

And yet, manufacturers kept knocking out new models and new lenses, year after year. Photographers also engaged in endless wars over manufacturers, formats, films, lenses, rangefinder vs SLR (yes really) and so forth. The advent of AF, metering, motorized/continuous film advance, in-lens stabilization (Canon started it in 1995), eye-control focus and more resulted in what seemed to be an "endless" line of new gear.

Even today, fussing over film is as much about gear as is fussing over digital.

Member said:
There is enough high quality gear out there to satisfy those of us that use it indefinitely.

That's because so few people are using film.

T3 · Oct 19, 2017

absquatulate said:
You don't need endless new camera models being released to shoot film.

Well, keep in mind that the same can be said about digital. The reality is that you don't need all the latest models. I still have a Canon 60D, and I don't ever plan on buying another DSLR. Most people could literally just buy any digital ILC in the market and keep shooting with it until they die, as long as they had working batteries for it.

SpinOne · Oct 19, 2017

absquatulate said:
Ellis Vener said:

Q: "Who said film is dead?"

A: The lack of reliable film processing labs now that so many of them have gone out of business

Ellis Vener
To see my work please visit http://www.ellisvener.com
And follow me on instagram at therealellisv

Click to expand...

Another rubbish answer, they now live online, and plenty of people process their own film. Your answer equates to "I can't buy vinyl records locally...vinyl is dead" or other nonsense.

Uh... yes, vinyl is a marginalized niche product, that is a shadow of its former self, and is primarily a hipster affectation and a nostalgia play. An excellent example.

tbcass · Oct 19, 2017

In all seriousness why do you compelled to argue endlessly with those that disagree with you? You're not changing anybody's mind. If you like using film keep it up and don't worry about what others think.

absquatulate · Oct 19, 2017

The Davinator said:
absquatulate said:

T3 said:

Glen Barrington said:

tbcass said:

This is a cost effective and intriguing camera.

https://www.adorama.com/fjgf670.htm...ge+& Active Users reco&utm_content=chrome_ff&

--
Tom
Look at the picture, not the pixels

Click to expand...

even for film cameras

https://www.dpreview.com/news/43310...an-new-fujifilm-gf670-folding-cameras-on-sale

Click to expand...

"Successful"? You can't really measure a camera like this based on market share or sales volume because it was always a niche camera. How "successful" were Fujifilm GX617 panorama cameras? Or how about the Fujifilm GW690? What kind of "market share" did they have? Are these cameras really out for market share and high sales volumes? No! These are all unique niche cameras catering to a unique niche user. Their "success" really has to be measured by how well they pleased those unique niche users, rather than on shear sales volume. Not everything is about shear sales numbers. If that was the sole motivation for a company like Fujifilm, we would have never gotten such unique, special, off-the-beaten-path cameras.

You can't even make any judgement on it based on the fact that it was discontinued either because every film camera from Canon and Nikon are discontinued too!

Click to expand...

I have a mint condition GW690II and I love that bad boy.

Click to expand...

Should be fun being able to load some new, dead Ektachrome in it soon.

"Zombie" Ektachrome you mean ;-)

absquatulate · Oct 19, 2017

tbcass said:
In all seriousness why do you compelled to argue endlessly with those that disagree with you?

I'm not arguing, I'm giving them the facts, why do you feel the need to butt-in? if you don't like it feel free to ignore it.

tbcass said:
You're not changing anybody's mind. If you like using film keep it up and don't worry about what others think.

I don't worry about what anyone else thinks, if I did I wouldn't be shooting film would I. I'll keep correcting the fallacies as and when I see fit...if that's ok with you of course.

tbcass said:
--
Tom
Look at the picture, not the pixels

The Davinator · Oct 19, 2017

absquatulate said:
The Davinator said:

absquatulate said:

T3 said:

Glen Barrington said:

tbcass said:

This is a cost effective and intriguing camera.

https://www.adorama.com/fjgf670.htm...ge+& Active Users reco&utm_content=chrome_ff&

--
Tom
Look at the picture, not the pixels

Click to expand...

even for film cameras

https://www.dpreview.com/news/43310...an-new-fujifilm-gf670-folding-cameras-on-sale

Click to expand...

"Successful"? You can't really measure a camera like this based on market share or sales volume because it was always a niche camera. How "successful" were Fujifilm GX617 panorama cameras? Or how about the Fujifilm GW690? What kind of "market share" did they have? Are these cameras really out for market share and high sales volumes? No! These are all unique niche cameras catering to a unique niche user. Their "success" really has to be measured by how well they pleased those unique niche users, rather than on shear sales volume. Not everything is about shear sales numbers. If that was the sole motivation for a company like Fujifilm, we would have never gotten such unique, special, off-the-beaten-path cameras.

You can't even make any judgement on it based on the fact that it was discontinued either because every film camera from Canon and Nikon are discontinued too!

Click to expand...

I have a mint condition GW690II and I love that bad boy.

Click to expand...

Should be fun being able to load some new, dead Ektachrome in it soon.

Click to expand...

"Zombie" Ektachrome you mean ;-)

LOL...and Zombie DSLRs. They are dead as well with more than 50% reduction in sales...and falling.

The Davinator · Oct 19, 2017

absquatulate said:
tbcass said:

In all seriousness why do you compelled to argue endlessly with those that disagree with you?

Click to expand...

I'm not arguing, I'm giving them the facts, why do you feel the need to butt-in? if you don't like it feel free to ignore it.

Member said:

You're not changing anybody's mind. If you like using film keep it up and don't worry about what others think.

Click to expand...

I don't worry about what anyone else thinks, if I did I wouldn't be shooting film would I. I'll keep correcting the fallacies as and when I see fit...if that's ok with you of course.

activator · Oct 19, 2017

My facts are watertight...........you seem to be drawing your conclusion from Fuji activity alone. What does that prove ? why so hung up on Fuji ?

Compare digital photography ....All digital cameras and tablets...all telephones to the relative minuscule sales of the fuji instant camera and its clear ....when I say that digital imaging is the future....and film is almost dead.

Compare the number of images made digitally all over the world to those made from film plus your beloved fuji instax.........those are the figures you should. be looking at

The fact you are batting hard for old fashioned film is romantic but when it is dead on its feet it is preposterous.

T3 · Oct 19, 2017

activator said:
My facts are watertight...........you seem to be drawing your conclusion from Fuji activity alone. What does that prove ? why so hung up on Fuji ?

Compare digital photography ....All digital cameras and tablets...all telephones to the relative minuscule sales of the fuji instant camera and its clear ....when I say that digital imaging is the future....and film is almost dead.

Compare the number of images made digitally all over the world to those made from film plus your beloved fuji instax.........those are the figures you should. be looking at

The fact you are batting hard for old fashioned film is romantic but when it is dead on its feet it is preposterous.

I don't see what the big deal is. What's wrong with people using film for "romantic" reasons? And who says everything has to exist at a "mass market" level? I also don't understand why people are so obsessed with "figures". Even though I don't use film anymore, I like that it still exists. And if I still had a film camera, I certainly wouldn't mind shooting a few rolls from time to time. Heck, if I find a good film camera that peaks my interest, I just might buy it and start shooting some film again! At the end of the day, does it bring someone joy? That's what really matters. I don't care if I'm the only one in my town who might shooting film. Who cares? Maybe there's also only one person in my town who places the accordion. Who cares what the exact "figures" might be?

absquatulate · Oct 19, 2017

The Davinator said:
absquatulate said:

The Davinator said:

absquatulate said:

T3 said:

Glen Barrington said:

tbcass said:

This is a cost effective and intriguing camera.

https://www.adorama.com/fjgf670.htm...ge+& Active Users reco&utm_content=chrome_ff&

--
Tom
Look at the picture, not the pixels

Click to expand...

even for film cameras

https://www.dpreview.com/news/43310...an-new-fujifilm-gf670-folding-cameras-on-sale

Click to expand...

"Successful"? You can't really measure a camera like this based on market share or sales volume because it was always a niche camera. How "successful" were Fujifilm GX617 panorama cameras? Or how about the Fujifilm GW690? What kind of "market share" did they have? Are these cameras really out for market share and high sales volumes? No! These are all unique niche cameras catering to a unique niche user. Their "success" really has to be measured by how well they pleased those unique niche users, rather than on shear sales volume. Not everything is about shear sales numbers. If that was the sole motivation for a company like Fujifilm, we would have never gotten such unique, special, off-the-beaten-path cameras.

You can't even make any judgement on it based on the fact that it was discontinued either because every film camera from Canon and Nikon are discontinued too!

Click to expand...

I have a mint condition GW690II and I love that bad boy.

Click to expand...

Should be fun being able to load some new, dead Ektachrome in it soon.

Click to expand...

"Zombie" Ektachrome you mean ;-)

Click to expand...

LOL...and Zombie DSLRs. They are dead as well with more than 50% reduction in sales...and falling.

I've got zombie stuff everywhere....I'm being over-run....

The Davinator · Oct 19, 2017

activator said:
My facts are watertight...........you seem to be drawing your conclusion from Fuji activity alone. What does that prove ? why so hung up on Fuji ?

Compare digital photography ....All digital cameras and tablets...all telephones to the relative minuscule sales of the fuji instant camera and its clear ....when I say that digital imaging is the future....and film is almost dead.

Compare the number of images made digitally all over the world to those made from film plus your beloved fuji instax.........those are the figures you should. be looking at

The fact you are batting hard for old fashioned film is romantic but when it is dead on its feet it is preposterous.

According to that logic...Fuji, Pentax, Olympus and Panasonic are dead because their market share is minuscule.

Or, you have no facts and your logic is leaking.

absquatulate · Oct 19, 2017

The Davinator said:
absquatulate said:

tbcass said:

In all seriousness why do you compelled to argue endlessly with those that disagree with you?

Click to expand...

I'm not arguing, I'm giving them the facts, why do you feel the need to butt-in? if you don't like it feel free to ignore it.

The Davinator said:

You're not changing anybody's mind. If you like using film keep it up and don't worry about what others think.

Click to expand...

I don't worry about what anyone else thinks, if I did I wouldn't be shooting film would I. I'll keep correcting the fallacies as and when I see fit...if that's ok with you of course.

Click to expand...

absquatulate · Oct 19, 2017

activator said:
My facts are watertight

What facts? do you have any then?

activator said:
...........you seem to be drawing your conclusion from Fuji activity alone. What does that prove ? why so hung up on Fuji ?

Fuji makes Instax, it could have been anyone, it's just that Fuji saw the opportunity and are making a bunch from it. I can call them something else if it bothers you?

activator said:
Compare digital photography ....All digital cameras and tablets...all telephones to the relative minuscule sales of the fuji instant camera and its clear ....when I say that digital imaging is the future....and film is almost dead.

Oh I see, you've moved from "dead" to "almost dead" now, don't trip over the goalposts.

activator said:
Compare the number of images made digitally all over the world to those made from film plus your beloved fuji instax.........those are the figures you should. be looking at

I'm not saying film is the new thing, I'm saying it's alive and well, because it is, it looks like that bothers you for some reason.

activator said:
The fact you are batting hard for old fashioned film is romantic but when it is dead on its feet it is preposterous.

Well it might be preposterous if film was dead, but as I've already said, if a kickstarter can raise funds for a new camera in 1 hour then that tells me there must have been a lot of interest. I'm pretty sure the Intrepid camera company don't think film is dead, neither do their customers. But hey, you go with the "film is dead" thing if it makes you happy, we'll still be talking about it in 10 or 20 years time, absolutely guaranteed.

absquatulate · Oct 19, 2017

SpinOne said:
absquatulate said:

Ellis Vener said:

Q: "Who said film is dead?"

A: The lack of reliable film processing labs now that so many of them have gone out of business

Ellis Vener
To see my work please visit http://www.ellisvener.com
And follow me on instagram at therealellisv

Click to expand...

Another rubbish answer, they now live online, and plenty of people process their own film. Your answer equates to "I can't buy vinyl records locally...vinyl is dead" or other nonsense.

Click to expand...

Uh... yes, vinyl is a marginalized niche product, that is a shadow of its former self, and is primarily a hipster affectation and a nostalgia play. An excellent example.

Being wrong once is bad enough, but twice? see if you can go for a hat-trick ;-)

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2...nyl-hits-25-year-high-and-outstrips-streaming

Marty4650 · Oct 19, 2017

"At least 30 albums sold more than 10,000 copies in 2016, a stark contrast to 2007 when digital downloads began to take hold and a meagre total of 200,000 LPs were sold overall."

And that is a very respectable increase over the prior year, but nothing near the sales levels vinyl records enjoyed at their peak around 40 years ago. Back then, literally HUNDREDS of albums sold over 10,000 copies, and more than 30 sold over a million copies.

--
Marty

http://www.fluidr.com/photos/marty4650/sets/72157606210120132

Favorites

Explore this photo album by Marty4650 on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

my blog: http://marty4650.blogspot.com/

SpinOne · Oct 19, 2017

absquatulate said:
SpinOne said:

absquatulate said:

Ellis Vener said:

Q: "Who said film is dead?"

A: The lack of reliable film processing labs now that so many of them have gone out of business

Ellis Vener
To see my work please visit http://www.ellisvener.com
And follow me on instagram at therealellisv

Click to expand...

Another rubbish answer, they now live online, and plenty of people process their own film. Your answer equates to "I can't buy vinyl records locally...vinyl is dead" or other nonsense.

Click to expand...

Uh... yes, vinyl is a marginalized niche product, that is a shadow of its former self, and is primarily a hipster affectation and a nostalgia play. An excellent example.

Click to expand...

Being wrong once is bad enough, but twice? see if you can go for a hat-trick ;-)

You first.

Vinyl sales were already near zero in 1991. The increases only look huge, because we're comparing it to near-zero numbers. (This is why percentage growth is often a deceptive measure.) Getting back to 1991 levels would be sort of like saying "typewriter sales were the best since 2001!"

Vinyl album sales could increase by 1.5 million a year, and still take 200 years to get back to 1978 levels.

So if we want to avoid the "death" metaphor: Vinyl records are a marginalized niche product, a shadow of its former sales figures, and is primarily a hipster affectation and a nostalgia play.

activator · Oct 19, 2017

Vinyl sales are less than 5% of sales in the music market.

Film & film cameras even less in the image making market...possibly less than 1%.

But keep plugging away convincing yourself that we are all going back to film and that it is not on its last legs.

tbcass · Oct 19, 2017

500,000,000 in 1975 vs 10,000 in 2007. I'd say Vinyl is not doing well at all but it's still there. There are still people who still do glass plates, tin type and daguerreotype photography so I guess nothing ever dies completely.

--
Tom
Look at the picture, not the pixels

Who said film is dead?

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