My "Unpopular" Opinion?

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Hmmm, a camera that produces images that require no work after pressing the shutter. Gotta get me one of them when they become available.
I have an old mobile phone that I never use to take images with. I often see others using mobile phones to take images and admit these seem to be passably good. I presume that we are missing something there - I think it is called "good enough for the intended audience". :)

That audience never asks for further work to be carried out on them. Accepted without complaint and if they have warts then "warts and all".

But I recommend that you stay with Olymous and that I don't ever resort to my mobile phone ....
 
Indeed, the best tool is one that you don't notice. Being 100% comfortable and familiar with your gear is so important.

Sometimes though... people just don't have the money to switch. Which is why it's good to know what you want before you buy anything.
 
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Not sure why your opinion is considered unpopular, or if it is, but it makes complete sense. Tradeoffs are part of life, in everything. Photo gear as well.

M43 has pluses and minuses. No gear is "best." Some gear is just better for some applications and needs. And really, most current cameras are at least pretty good, and it's actually difficult to pick a real lemon these days. Whether you've got $500 or $5000 to spend, you can get something that let's you make nice images.

I guess some people want to feel like they own that magical "best" camera or whatever, because for most mortals photo gear is pretty expensive, so people want to feel like they made the "best" choice. Mix in some insecurity and immaturity, and you get "fanboys."
 
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"You see, in my opinion, to really enjoy photography to the fullest, you should forget you are even using your gear, in a sense. By that I mean it should be worry/hassle free. You should just be able to put the camera to your eye and concentrate 100% on capturing a composition in the most aesthetically pleasing way you know how, without any lingering doubts about the technical performance of your gear."

I couldn't have put it better myself, when I'm coaching people in photography I explain this to them as practising with the system they use with the objective that it eventually becomes invisible. Then they can concentrate on capturing the images they want without thinking about settings or anything else (we never discuss the theoretical limitations of their system, just how to get the best from it for the job in hand)

--
So much to learn, so little time left to do it! :D
Exactly.....

I will add a comment that my wife would make, and she is one of the best photographers I know. When people ask her why she shoots M43, after years in the Canon corral. She says it's simple. She is not a numbers or equation person, and even though she knows all about the exposure triangle and how it works, it is not something that comes naturally for her. But........now she can see the image take shape right before her eye in the EVF, making just the right exposure and focus adjustments until she gets that special connection with her subject.

I just wish I could do it as well as she does.
 
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My opinion includes telling anyone having complaints or doubts about m4/3 IQ or AF to just go ahead and buy or switch to another system. Really, don't come here and complain about it, just consider that to fully enjoy photography, you should really, truly enjoy using your gear. If you think you will like Fuji or Sony or Nikon or Canon (or even Pentax) better, then get into that system and stop putting yourself through the angst of trying to justify m4/3.
Personally, I enjoy using my m4/3 gear for macro, but not for most other types of photography. Because of that I currently also use Fuji and Sony cameras, and try to have the system with me that I'm happy using in a specific situation.

I'd love to downsize and fully switch to a single system, and as m4/3 is the most compact option with all the lenses I want, that's the system I'd ideally like to standardise on. I sometimes complain about the current m4/3 cameras because I want that to be a reality, not because there's an overall better system that I can happily switch to.
 
You may be surprised at the number of people in this forum who would agree with virtually everything you said, and you said it very well, though they may be the “silent majority”. Just that some here get a bit carried away or passionate sometimes, and granted there are some who would disagree strongly or come from a completely different experience and perspective, often dare I say from a more recent and heavily technology-oriented photographic experience and with a very much limited understanding and experience of the history of photography and cameras.
The reason for the question mark on my subject line was indeed to challenge how unpopular my views might be. It's sort of a paradox: most people who share my views tend to avoid the "System Wars" types of posts in favor of talking about how to better use the gear we have or help with problems. Those who go overboard in either direction tend to miss the forest for the trees, so to speak, by basing too much of their enjoyment of photography on technical aspects of gear.
 
Well, if your clients are happy with the work you are producing with your M43 cameras and lenses and you don't mind doing the extra work needed to clean up and de-noise the images, then why not use M43 system kit?

Every camera system has its advantages and disadvantages. For me, I think it would be super-nice to be able to buy a full-frame Sony a9 or even A7R MkII and a slew of lenses to go with either camera, but I don't have that kind of money, so I have to go with what I can afford, limitations and all.
I'm looking to invest in the Sony A7 series as a second system for situations where FF is the better solution. I doubt it would become my main system because of the size of the lenses, and a few functional idiosyncrasies. (I at least am used to Olympus's functional idiosyncrasies LOL). The director of the website I work for is selling off his A7 kit in favor of going back to Nikon due to the release of the D850. He was using the D810 before. He can afford to switch systems like that! Even though he favors FF, he has never complained about the images I provide.

Had I the money, I'd buy his kit and sell the A7 and a couple of lenses I wouldn't use in favor of the A7Rii.
 
Not sure why your opinion is considered unpopular, or if it is, but it makes complete sense. Tradeoffs are part of life, in everything. Photo gear as well.

M43 has pluses and minuses. No gear is "best." Some gear is just better for some applications and needs. And really, most current cameras are at least pretty good, and it's actually difficult to pick a real lemon these days. Whether you've got $500 or $5000 to spend, you can get something that let's you make nice images.

I guess some people want to feel like they own that magical "best" camera or whatever, because for most mortals photo gear is pretty expensive, so people want to feel like they made the "best" choice. Mix in some insecurity and immaturity, and you get "fanboys."
What I think may be unpopular is my statement that if people have any doubts about m4/3 they should just not buy it or switch (if they can). Second guessing gear is a good way to ruin enjoyment of photography. The "Open Talk" forum is a good place to encounter people who let problems or questions concerning gear ruin their enjoyment of photography.

I have an acquaintance who was about to give up on photography entirely until he bought an iPhone. Using that restored his enjoyment of the hobby so much he started photographing more than he did with his dslr kit. He had a gallery show several months ago, all of iPhone photos.
 
I'm pretty sure some people won't like a couple of things I'm going to say, but with the constant flow of "Fuji is better" posts and others in which either the utter failure or unbeatable superiority of m4/3 is expressed by some, I want to weigh in with my personal point of view as a working photographer.

[]

So what's not to like about my opinion?

My opinion includes telling anyone having complaints or doubts about m4/3 IQ or AF to just go ahead and buy or switch to another system. Really, don't come here and complain about it, just consider that to fully enjoy photography, you should really, truly enjoy using your gear. If you think you will like Fuji or Sony or Nikon or Canon (or even Pentax) better, then get into that system and stop putting yourself through the angst of trying to justify m4/3.

Also, if you have to get all fanboyish and unrealistic to justify staying with m4/3, again you should just switch systems. You need to honestly enjoy photography, not convince yourself you are enjoying your gear just because you don't want to feel you made a mistake in buying it.

You see, in my opinion, to really enjoy photography to the fullest, you should forget you are even using your gear, in a sense. By that I mean it should be worry/hassle free. You should just be able to put the camera to your eye and concentrate 100% on capturing a composition in the most aesthetically pleasing way you know how, without any lingering doubts about the technical performance of your gear.

--
Photography is not about the thing photographed. It is about how that thing looks photographed. Quote by Garry Winogrand
http://eyeguessphotography.com
http://livegigshots.com
I don't see any issue with that. What you sometimes get is hyper-m43rds sensitivity where nobody can admit other brands have their advantages too, and a simple advice to head over there for those advantages that maches someone needs becomes "OMG, Fuji is better thread!"

Nobody needs to have the heart attack. Not so long ago I alluded to a thread in another forum that so and so said was leaving, polite and all, and all the replies were polite and all, and luck wishing and all.

No drama. All focused on what's best for the photographer. All nice.

I call this part of the m43rds inferiority complex where the people that have it can't simply acknowledge their system can't do everything the best, and just accept the trade offs with its advantages and simply be happy.

Also nothing wrong to discuss issues with your gears and possible solutions/work arounds without getting into the "why are you staying then?, " "why you think Brand X does better there and Olympus should adopt that" etc.

--
Raist3d/Ricardo (Photographer, software dev.)- I photograph black cats in coal mines at night...
“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.” - George Orwell
 
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Thanks for a refreshing thread with the point of view of one who actually takes photographs in a serious way.

This is the key phrase for me.

You see, in my opinion, to really enjoy photography to the fullest, you should forget you are even using your gear, in a sense. By that I mean it should be worry/hassle free. You should just be able to put the camera to your eye and concentrate 100% on capturing a composition in the most aesthetically pleasing way you know how, without any lingering doubts about the technical performance of your gear.

I think it is often forgotten that actually knowing how to use ones camera without having to think about what one is doing is a great help in getting good photographs for the reasons you spell out.

I presume this thread was written as a reply to a rather pathetic recent thread; the usual "jumping ship" diatribe that we see here far to often. I often try to see what these "ship jumpers" photograph. When I see their photographs the problem is clear. We see most often, badly composed, casual and purposeless photography. The problem is hardly ever the camera.

I see a lot of whining about cameras here that could be solved by reading some good books on composition and technique and then practicing over and over again to put it into practice.

Unfortunately today we all want to have great results without having to put any effort on our part into achieving them.

 
Nigel!

In this day and age, it's everyone's right to achieve greatness without putting in any effort. This is what social justice is all about! ;-)
 
Nigel!

In this day and age, it's everyone's right to achieve greatness without putting in any effort. This is what social justice is all about! ;-)

--
Thoughts, Musings, Ideas and Images from South Gippsland
https://australianimage.com.au
but isn't that what many camera manufacturers are selling through their advertisements?



Olympus2.png
 
You may be surprised at the number of people in this forum who would agree with virtually everything you said, and you said it very well, though they may be the “silent majority”. Just that some here get a bit carried away or passionate sometimes, and granted there are some who would disagree strongly or come from a completely different experience and perspective, often dare I say from a more recent and heavily technology-oriented photographic experience and with a very much limited understanding and experience of the history of photography and cameras.
The reason for the question mark on my subject line was indeed to challenge how unpopular my views might be. It's sort of a paradox: most people who share my views tend to avoid the "System Wars" types of posts in favor of talking about how to better use the gear we have or help with problems. Those who go overboard in either direction tend to miss the forest for the trees, so to speak, by basing too much of their enjoyment of photography on technical aspects of gear.
Charles,

Yes, I understand.

Thank you for this very thoughtful thread; it has elicited many thoughtful replies.

Again, for my money, your last paragraph in your OP said it all the best.
 
Ditto pretty much everything you wrote.
I'm pretty sure some people won't like a couple of things I'm going to say, but with the constant flow of "Fuji is better" posts and others in which either the utter failure or unbeatable superiority of m4/3 is expressed by some, I want to weigh in with my personal point of view as a working photographer.

I specialize in concert/performance photography.
I do corporate events & portraits for a living and travel landscapes for fun, all with MFT.
This has long been the almost exclusive realm of FF cameras, or at least APSC with better high ISO performance. All my colleagues at the website i staff for use mostly FF with some APSC used when a bit more reach is needed with telephoto lenses. That reflects the genre standard at large.
And that's how I worked for 12 years.
That said, I admit that the photos I take with my EM1s take more work to clean up and lift shadows than most FF files (which often don't need much work anyway.) I admit even with my best effort starting with .orf files, OOC .jpegs from cameras like the Sony A7rii, and CaNikon FF dslrs are cleaner and usually have better DR. (To me, DR is a more important factor than noise when it comes to concert photos.)
Processing RAWs with DxO Optics Pro Elite and applying PRIME noise reduction gets me a lot closer to the noise levels of APS/35mm JPEGs or RAWs processed with lesser software.
The shallow DoF advantages of FF are sometimes missed. On occasion I'd like more isolation at a given f stop than I get with m4/3.
The thought never enters my mind. But, I have moved from shooting with a couple of f2.8 zooms to using three MFT bodies with brighter primes. Nice bokeh with my 45/1.8. Cheap and light, three MFT cameras is easily doable. Three 35mm-format DSLRs? Not so much.
Even as AF has improved with each generation of m4/3 cameras, I have associates with 5 year old DSLRs that focus faster and more accurately under conditions where I know my EM1s struggle.
Now this is where my experience is the opposite. With my Canon 1-series DSLRs, I constantly wrestled with AF locking onto the microphones in front of speakers at lecterns. Face-detect AF on my MFT cameras made that frustration go away. I also much prefer Panasonic's Touchpad AF, which allows selecting and moving an AF point with a tap on the rear screen (while still looking through the viewfinder), over spinning the dials or diddling the joybuttons on my Canons as a way of positioning an AF point.

I'll note here that Panasonic's S-AF works in lower light than most other cameras of any price. C-AF may not be as good, but I don't need it for my slow-moving subjects.
Then again, they like how small and light my kit is compared to theirs. ;-)
The size factor is related to two things that led me to MFT. First, I began to travel, walk, and hike a lot, and I simply wanted a small kit with IQ sufficient for poster-size prints and submission to stock agencies. So, I added a modest MFT kit as a complement to my 1D3 & 1Ds3. Second - and this is why I ultimately ditched the Canons - I suffered a crippling bout of bursitis in my right shoulder. It was almost as painful as a shot to the crotch, and it went on for two weeks. Now, I can't say it was caused by carrying heavy cameras for two decades, but I certainly had my suspicions. And anyway, I simply couldn't continue carrying two big cameras with big lenses and big flashes through 14-hour-per-day week-long conference gigs. I now work with three MFT cameras and feel much less fatigued at the ends of long days.

I'll just note that my biz partner shoots with a D750 and a 24-120/4. Our kits cost about the same and weigh about the same, but the weight of my kit is spread across three points. Light gathering and noise are about the same. Our images are virtually indistinguishable. I have the option of downsizing to one body with a pancake prime for casual use or travel. He doesn't. Plus, I have redundant backups. He does, too, of course, but that's at the cost of even more cost and weight.
So why do I stick with m4/3?

I enjoy using it. I am confident that I can get the results I want. The style I want my images to have depends less on absence of noise or wider DR than on what I have been doing with 4/3 and m4/3 for nearly 10 years. I'm settled into the system for what it does for me, advantages I've come to depend on as second nature, and the very fact that my photos don't look like the typical concert photos out there.

It's just as many years ago, there were those who first switched to 35mm Leicas while most photographers stuck with 4X5 or medium format They liked that combination of easier portability, and overall operation, but there was also the fact that their photos simply had a different look that pleased them.

That's where i'm at: I love using my m4/3 and prefer the results I get, and I have clients who pay for those results.
Yeah, that's my experience as well. When you get paid, it kinda makes all the "X format is better" claims moot.
I know I have more noise in my ISO 6400 photos than a Nikon, Canon or Sony user has. I know I will have more trouble shooting fast moving action than someone with a Canon or Nikon DSLR. I know I don't have as many lenses available.
The PanOly lineup is third behind Canon and Nikon, and way ahead of any other system. The key question is, do they have the lenses you want? I don't need tilt-shift or a 400/2.8. I have available exactly the lenses I want (except a 17/1.4). I couldn't say that about the Sony APS lineup, which is why I want MFT instead.
I know I may be paying more for a lens or camera body than it would seem comparable lenses or bodies from other makers cost.

I even know that some people look at my use of Olympus gear with some skepticism, since so many pros use Canon and Nikon.
In my work, I haven't heard one peep other than "Wow, your cameras are so quiet!" Thanks, e-shutter mode! It's literally let me do jobs that I couldn't have done with a mechanical shutter due to sound issues.
I also know that I'm limiting myself as far as the expectations of certain genres are concerned. I confess I'd probably take a different approach if I were actively seeking commercial work or doing weddings.
Weddings are a side line for me, but I've shot a few with my MFT kit. No problem. Helps if you know how to use flash intelligently.
I know all this and am still very happy using m4/3.

So what's not to like about my opinion?

My opinion includes telling anyone having complaints or doubts about m4/3 IQ or AF to just go ahead and buy or switch to another system. Really, don't come here and complain about it, just consider that to fully enjoy photography, you should really, truly enjoy using your gear. If you think you will like Fuji or Sony or Nikon or Canon (or even Pentax) better, then get into that system and stop putting yourself through the angst of trying to justify m4/3.

Also, if you have to get all fanboyish and unrealistic to justify staying with m4/3, again you should just switch systems. You need to honestly enjoy photography, not convince yourself you are enjoying your gear just because you don't want to feel you made a mistake in buying it.

You see, in my opinion, to really enjoy photography to the fullest, you should forget you are even using your gear, in a sense. By that I mean it should be worry/hassle free. You should just be able to put the camera to your eye and concentrate 100% on capturing a composition in the most aesthetically pleasing way you know how, without any lingering doubts about the technical performance of your gear.
Call me perverse, but I actually enjoy the challenge of shooting with minimal gear. Keeps my problem-solving skills sharp. Then again, I began my career with film and shot with much less capable DSLRs (D60, 40D, 1D, 1Ds, 1D2...) for years, so MFT at ISO 1600 is a walk in the park.

--
If you think digital is hard, try slide film.
http://jacquescornell.photography
http://happening.photos
 
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I often go out with different set-up and "practice" taking photographs. To the uninitiated I am nuts about my camera gear and will shoot at anything - 'why would you want to take a picture of "that"?'

The answer of course is that I practice to improve my skills, understand my gear, and make the capture intuitive.


This is my M.O. as well. I am constantly practicing so that when I am in the midst of something important (photographing grandkids :-), I am not fumbling with settings...I have captured many wonderful memories since I practice a lot! I get the comments "why are you taking this shot?" then reminded of Vivian Maier who practiced all the time .;-)



ecc2539b171742b9b45706098ea78561.jpg



--
-Paul
 
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Thanks for a refreshing thread with the point of view of one who actually takes photographs in a serious way.

This is the key phrase for me.

You see, in my opinion, to really enjoy photography to the fullest, you should forget you are even using your gear, in a sense. By that I mean it should be worry/hassle free. You should just be able to put the camera to your eye and concentrate 100% on capturing a composition in the most aesthetically pleasing way you know how, without any lingering doubts about the technical performance of your gear.

I think it is often forgotten that actually knowing how to use ones camera without having to think about what one is doing is a great help in getting good photographs for the reasons you spell out.

I presume this thread was written as a reply to a rather pathetic recent thread; the usual "jumping ship" diatribe that we see here far to often. I often try to see what these "ship jumpers" photograph. When I see their photographs the problem is clear. We see most often, badly composed, casual and purposeless photography. The problem is hardly ever the camera.

I see a lot of whining about cameras here that could be solved by reading some good books on composition and technique and then practicing over and over again to put it into practice.
Reading the manual usually helps too. LOL
Unfortunately today we all want to have great results without having to put any effort on our part into achieving them.
 
I hope this doesn't come off as snarky or callous, but why do MFT users always seem to be in a constant need of system reassurance? If a system is truly great why do folks constantly feel the need to justify their choice here?
 
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