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3 quick notes on using D850 Focus Shifting
- Thread starter Ellis Vener
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nextlife
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nextlife
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theonetruepath
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Here is my take on focus stacking. F22, two off-camera flashes (CLS via Yongnuo radio), 200mm F4 ED Nikon micro, D810. Total shots, 1. What's my point, you ask?... Well I have yet to see any examples of stacking that improve on what I can do with a single shot. And I think the only way I would get a better result than this with stacking is by using the same flash system but in manual mode, a super stationary subject (this guy was waving in the wind) and tons of extra time and work. The focus-stacking could certainly help with that work load, but not hand held. Your loss in sharpness is way greater than that caused by diffraction at F22.I have had the camera for 2 days and have done a few stacking experiments on a tripod. But I really want to know if I can use it handheld in the field. Here is just my first quick and dirty attempt--a spider web lit by late afternoon sun blowing slightly in the breeze in my front yard. A twenty shot sequence with a Sigma 150/2.8 Macro, f8, focus width setting 5.
Here is the first shot in the sequence, intended to get some of the web in front of he spider:
And here is the stacked product, done in Photoshop, exported with no processing:
View attachment adc9043292d24c84a2b519610cffd868.jpg
Sure there is some focus banding, but for a first attempt shot literally in 30 seconds or less, and stacked only in photoshop, I think it is pretty damn encouraging. I have little doubt that with a little more time and effort this can be very useful--at least for me.
Eriophora transmarina - Garden orb weaver
nextlife
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Can't argue with you for this example. Still fun to play with, and still think it is likely to be useful in certain situations. My main point is simply that it is not as useless as many say. In my opinion.Here is my take on focus stacking. F22, two off-camera flashes (CLS via Yongnuo radio), 200mm F4 ED Nikon micro, D810. Total shots, 1. What's my point, you ask?... Well I have yet to see any examples of stacking that improve on what I can do with a single shot. And I think the only way I would get a better result than this with stacking is by using the same flash system but in manual mode, a super stationary subject (this guy was waving in the wind) and tons of extra time and work. The focus-stacking could certainly help with that work load, but not hand held. Your loss in sharpness is way greater than that caused by diffraction at F22.I have had the camera for 2 days and have done a few stacking experiments on a tripod. But I really want to know if I can use it handheld in the field. Here is just my first quick and dirty attempt--a spider web lit by late afternoon sun blowing slightly in the breeze in my front yard. A twenty shot sequence with a Sigma 150/2.8 Macro, f8, focus width setting 5.
Here is the first shot in the sequence, intended to get some of the web in front of he spider:
And here is the stacked product, done in Photoshop, exported with no processing:
View attachment adc9043292d24c84a2b519610cffd868.jpg
Sure there is some focus banding, but for a first attempt shot literally in 30 seconds or less, and stacked only in photoshop, I think it is pretty damn encouraging. I have little doubt that with a little more time and effort this can be very useful--at least for me.
Eriophora transmarina - Garden orb weaver
theonetruepath
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I haven't seen anyone saying it's useless, mostly just grumbling about the fact that Nikon as usual missed out on some obvious ways to make it tons easier to use.
I agree that it looks like after one or two goes one will get a handle on what step size/number of shots to choose at which focus distance and which focal length lens etc.
nextlife
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GregWCIL
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What type of photos have you used it for- macro, landscapes, other? Do you think with a little experience you can develop some " rules fo thumb" for different situations? I understand your point. But I'm guessing soon we will find plenty of "how to" vids on YouTube.
nextlife
Forum Enthusiast
I was reacting to the following comment earlier in this thread:
"The way it is now, just a completely unusable unknowable hot mess of throwing darts blindly.."
There's a couple of basic rules to follow when using focus shift for focus stacking
1) for best results use a tripod or another support
2) the greater the camera to subject distance the larger the fewer shots you'll need. The converse is also true.
3) the larger the aperture the smaller the increments should be.
4) the longer the focal length the more rule 2 & 3 interact.
5) examine the last frame: if your DoF doesn't extend far enough, shoot a second sequence beginning where the first one ended.
5) For subjects that move - it's best to sacrifice ultimate definition by stopping down and using flash as the light source
6) As always use the camera's computers to think with you, not for you.
--
Ellis Vener
To see my work please visit http://www.ellisvener.com
And follow me on instagram at therealellisv
1) for best results use a tripod or another support
2) the greater the camera to subject distance the larger the fewer shots you'll need. The converse is also true.
3) the larger the aperture the smaller the increments should be.
4) the longer the focal length the more rule 2 & 3 interact.
5) examine the last frame: if your DoF doesn't extend far enough, shoot a second sequence beginning where the first one ended.
5) For subjects that move - it's best to sacrifice ultimate definition by stopping down and using flash as the light source
6) As always use the camera's computers to think with you, not for you.
--
Ellis Vener
To see my work please visit http://www.ellisvener.com
And follow me on instagram at therealellisv
Last edited:
NotASpeckOfCereal
Senior Member
Good post, good rules. Here are some suggestions for improvement:
#2: "the larger the fewer"?
#5: don't ever let anyone tell you that you can't have TWO number 5s.
My take: the first 3 are good to know and are, as you say, common sense rules. The last 3 are also common sense, but are good to include to squelch some of the complaints in this thread. For instance, most of us can agree that it would be nice if the camera automation did a few more things for us, but we don't need it to.
theonetruepath
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Well you lose credibility for taking such a nonsense hot mess of a statement seriously...
I was wrong to call it useless, it's better than nothing. But it could have been so much more useful have both starting and end points rather then trying to blindly guess where the stopping point will be.
nextlife
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Agreed.
Hah! Great catches! The perisl of writing a long post on a smart phone...
Exactly.
With experience the less blind you become.
nextlife
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So for what it is worth here is the situation I am wanting to address. This was shot like your Garden orb weaver at f22 using flash. Unlike your weaver the depth front to back of the frog is more like 5 cm, thus the posterior parts are not in focus.Here is my take on focus stacking. F22, two off-camera flashes (CLS via Yongnuo radio), 200mm F4 ED Nikon micro, D810. Total shots, 1. What's my point, you ask?... Well I have yet to see any examples of stacking that improve on what I can do with a single shot. And I think the only way I would get a better result than this with stacking is by using the same flash system but in manual mode, a super stationary subject (this guy was waving in the wind) and tons of extra time and work. The focus-stacking could certainly help with that work load, but not hand held. Your loss in sharpness is way greater than that caused by diffraction at F22.
Eriophora transmarina - Garden orb weaver
Trying to model that by shooting a 5 shot stack handheld at f22. Here is the first photo in the stack:
And the final 5-photo stack.
Given that this was shot at 5 fps it is little more trouble in the field than a single exposure. Again there may be a better way but I am at least enjoying experimenting!
I also think it will be very useful.
Try this one with the flash, diffraction man... I have a Snowy Egrett at 250ft riding on the back of a feeding manatee, using my D850 with my 800mm and TC. The bird is in the shadows and I want my ISO at no more than 1600. F22 is ridiculously out of the question, and so is a flash. My best chance is a blast of 10 shots or so and focus stacking to get the bird and the manatee.
This is a real scenario in my world. Not all of us play with spiders at 16 inches. Focus stacking is not just for macros.
Try this one with the flash, diffraction man... I have a Snowy Egrett at 250ft riding on the back of a feeding manatee, using my D850 with my 800mm and TC. The bird is in the shadows and I want my ISO at no more than 1600. F22 is ridiculously out of the question, and so is a flash. My best chance is a blast of 10 shots or so and focus stacking to get the bird and the manatee.
This is a real scenario in my world. Not all of us play with spiders at 16 inches. Focus stacking is not just for macros.
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