Various cheap alternatives to Trioplan; lenses producing soap bubble bokeh on Nikon D800 and Sony A7

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I wrote a blog entry on triplets with overcorrected spherical aberration producing soap buble bokeh adapted to be used on Nikon D800 or Sony A7:

https://towarzystwonieustraszonychs...msta-nrd-po-latach-czyli-tryplety-z.html#more

Here is a summary of the text:

Trioplan: Communist Germany takes revenge after years or triplets with overcorrected spherical aberration

Trioplan 100mm f/2.8, a simple triplet design of East Germany that used to cost just 15 USD ten years ago, suddenly sprang to fame and its prices sky-rocketed to reach 1000 USD levels. And the reason was that someone tried one on a digital camera and liked the out-of-focus areas. Then others called the effect “soap bubble bokeh” and named it the best next thing after sliced bread. The effect, which it truly pronounced only with the lens wide open, comes from simple triplet design with overcorrected spherical aberration. In all truth the effect is just the opposite of what Japanese would call a perfect bokeh, It is the most imperfect bokeh imaginable, if we stick to original notion behind the term.

To each their own; is someone likes the effect and has a spare grand, let them just buy the lens. For those who want to check the effect but would rather not spend that much, there are much cheaper options. The Meyer plant, and then its successor - the Pentacon plant – made slide projectors for 6x6cm format frequently furnished with a Diaplan 100mm f/2.8 (later called Pentacon AV 100mm f/2.8) lens, which is an exact copy of the Trioplan - only without aperture mechanism, which is irrelevant as the effect is visible only at f/2.8. Also shorter-focal length Diaplan/Pentacon AV 80mm f/2,8 projector lenses display similar characteristics. There are other East German camera lenses capable of rendering (in right conditions) soap bubble bokeh, like Primotar 135mm f/3.5, oraz Telemegor 180m f/5.5. Even DC NIkkors of either focal length – 105mm and 135mm – when used in default of their intended purpose, can show some kind of soap bubble bokeh. With ready-made or home-made adapters, all those lenses can be used on either DSLRs or mirrorless cameras. All photos in my blog entry were taken with either Nikon D800 or Sony A7.

Jarek

Some have suggested the Meyer Domiplan as well. Also the shorter focal length Trioplan from Meyer which is also on the expensive side.

The Bonotar 105/4.5 from Feinmess may also be another candidate but might not be fast enough. But it is a capable lens if a little Despite having a few bubble-bokeh lenses in my collection I am not that much good at provoking them - must try harder ....

Tom, I haven't tried the Domiplan. I have Trioplan 50mm and it does produce some bubbles. I think I paid close to 40 USD for it with AltiX camera. It is not easy to adapt but such adaptation is doable at home. The cheapest way is truly the Diaplan - I paid 15 USD for a slide projector with the Diaplan.

Best

Jarek

Tom Caldwell said:

Jarek

Some have suggested the Meyer Domiplan as well. Also the shorter focal length Trioplan from Meyer which is also on the expensive side.

The Bonotar 105/4.5 from Feinmess may also be another candidate but might not be fast enough. But it is a capable lens if a little Despite having a few bubble-bokeh lenses in my collection I am not that much good at provoking them - must try harder ....

--
Tom Caldwell

Click to expand...

jarek leo said:

Tom, I haven't tried the Domiplan. I have Trioplan 50mm and it does produce some bubbles. I think I paid close to 40 USD for it with AltiX camera. It is not easy to adapt but such adaptation is doable at home. The cheapest way is truly the Diaplan - I paid 15 USD for a slide projector with the Diaplan.

Best

Jarek

Click to expand...

I suggest that "easy bubbles" are a factor of focal length and size of aperture and presumably the Meyer Trioplan 100/2.8 may have just hit that sweet spot.

Frankly I prefer the early multi-blade Orester 100/2.8 - seet little lens but maybe no "bubbles" to speak of - I think that was one lens that did not improve the breed as it became older. I find that their apertures tend to stick even with the re-design and reduction to six blades.

I have noted your Diaplan recommendation and will check it out. Maybe the Diaplan "stock price" will soar now that the secret is out.

jarek leo said:

Tom Caldwell said:

Jarek

Some have suggested the Meyer Domiplan as well. Also the shorter focal length Trioplan from Meyer which is also on the expensive side.

The Bonotar 105/4.5 from Feinmess may also be another candidate but might not be fast enough. But it is a capable lens if a little Despite having a few bubble-bokeh lenses in my collection I am not that much good at provoking them - must try harder ....

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Diaplan not so rare - I passed on the lot of 100 units and also on the 50 unit batch

Had to give everyone else a chance - did not want to corner the market .....

Don't tell Gnarly .... (another member of this forum who is very good at making hs own adapters .....)

Tom Caldwell said:

Diaplan not so rare - I passed on the lot of 100 units and also on the 50 unit batch

Had to give everyone else a chance - did not want to corner the market .....

Don't tell Gnarly .... (another member of this forum who is very good at making hs own adapters .....)

--
Tom Caldwell

Click to expand...

don't worry I am already onto it :-D

It is actually the Domiplan that started my fetish for vintage lenses (my very fist manual focus lens on digital) and if it wasn't for those bubbles maybe my initial excitement would have not been there and I could have taken a different path... maybe iPhone photography (not)

I think this is the 3rd image I took after I adapted the Domiplan


Domiplan on Olympus E-P5

Now, on Micro 4/3 any lens that is a bit soft and low contrast will perform even worse than on a larger sensor, so often the Diaplan 100/2.8 is kind of meh on that format. The Diaplan 80/2.8 works better for me

However I am bit over the hyper-bubble and exploring the cat-eye bokeh at the moment. And yes, I would not pay $1000 for a lens that has marginal use

GnarlydogOZ said:

However I am bit over the hyper-bubble and exploring the cat-eye bokeh at the moment. And yes, I would not pay $1000 for a lens that has marginal use

Click to expand...

Would this be counted as somewhat interested?


Spiratone 75/3.5 Enlarger Lens


Corner Crop


Look at lower right corner to see how Cat-eye bokeh changed the sense of the real scene

CK

Ching-Kuang Shene said:

GnarlydogOZ said:

However I am bit over the hyper-bubble and exploring the cat-eye bokeh at the moment. And yes, I would not pay $1000 for a lens that has marginal use

Click to expand...

Would this be counted as somewhat interested?


Spiratone 75/3.5 Enlarger Lens


Corner Crop


Look at lower right corner to see how Cat-eye bokeh changed the sense of the real scene

CK

Click to expand...

There's a plethora of cheap 3 element enlarging lenses, such as the Spiratone, that have strongly overcorrected SA bokeh (ie mild soap bubble) and often swirl. For character, these crappy cheap EL's are quite good.

sensiblename99 said:

Ching-Kuang Shene said:

GnarlydogOZ said:

However I am bit over the hyper-bubble and exploring the cat-eye bokeh at the moment. And yes, I would not pay $1000 for a lens that has marginal use

Click to expand...

Would this be counted as somewhat interested?


Spiratone 75/3.5 Enlarger Lens


Corner Crop


Look at lower right corner to see how Cat-eye bokeh changed the sense of the real scene

CK

Click to expand...

There's a plethora of cheap 3 element enlarging lenses, such as the Spiratone, that have strongly overcorrected SA bokeh (ie mild soap bubble) and often swirl. For character, these crappy cheap EL's are quite good.

Click to expand...

I find swirly or any other effect like chili: too much and makes me gag.

In a world or artistic photography (versus documentation) the flavor varies between individuals; some like it hot some like it mild... and then are some that don't like spice at all. :-|

Moral of the story: just like cooking one has to know what ingredients (and how much) make a good meal.

Here's a list of some 3 element EL's which may also exhibit the kind of harsh/poor bokeh of the lenses listed by the OP, although probably not to the same extent as EL's are usually quite slow. Most of these lenses are very cheap, or they should be because they're typically not very good compared to other EL's.


Beseler 'Beslars' 3.5/35, 3.5/50, 3.5/75, 4.5/90, 4.5/105, 4.5/135, 4.5/150
Spiratone 3.5/35, 3.5/50, 3.5/75, 4.5/90, 4.5/150
Perfex 3.5/35, 3.5/50, 4.5/75, 4.5/90, 4.5/135
Prinz 3.5/35, 3.5/50, 3.5/75
Samigon 3.5/35, 3.5/50, 3.5/75
Voss 3.5/50, 3.5/75, 4.5/90
Ena Ennaplan 4.5/50
Ena Ennagon 4.5/80 and 4.5/90
Kodak Ektanon 4.5/2", 6.3/2", 4.5/3", 4.5/4"
Rodenstock El-Omegar 3.5/50 and 4.5/75
Rodenstock Trinars (all?)
Rodenstock Rogonar 2.8/50 and 4.5/75
Schneider Componar-C 2.8/50, 4/75 and 4.5/105
Soligor 4.5/90 and 4.5/105

The OP did a good thing to make hypes affordable by mentioning the alternative lenses.

I wonder where the Staeble Katagon 60mm 4.5 fits in, as a mediocre enlarging lens it could at least have character. Three Maginons in the cupboard too. GnarlyDog showed they have bells. The Domiplan on my first SLR ever was sold nearly 50 years ago, a 20 year older Leica Elmar was better. FlickRiver shows that it can make bells, DOF at max aperture ends however before it reaches some level of sharpness in the image


Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
No photographer's gear list is complete without the printer mentioned !

E Dinkla said:

The Domiplan on my first SLR ever was sold nearly 50 years ago, a 20 year older Leica Elmar was better. FlickRiver shows that it can make bells, DOF at max aperture ends however before it reaches some level of sharpness in the image

Click to expand...

well, the balls come from a wide aperture and the brighter the lens the better.

I have several triplet projector lenses in the 80-90mm mark. Some are f2.8 and others are f3.5. Unmistakeably the brighter ones give me better balls (more defined, whiter edges) but the obvious part is that they have less DOF. I wish there was a way around that :-|

GnarlydogOZ said:

E Dinkla said:

The Domiplan on my first SLR ever was sold nearly 50 years ago, a 20 year older Leica Elmar was better. FlickRiver shows that it can make bells, DOF at max aperture ends however before it reaches some level of sharpness in the image

Click to expand...

well, the balls come from a wide aperture and the brighter the lens the better.

I have several triplet projector lenses in the 80-90mm mark. Some are f2.8 and others are f3.5. Unmistakeably the brighter ones give me better balls (more defined, whiter edges) but the obvious part is that they have less DOF. I wish there was a way around that :-|

Click to expand...

I know, it was more to emphasize how unhappy I was then with the Domiplan as a standard lens for general use.


Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
No photographer's gear list is complete without the printer mentioned !

Projection lens, appears to produce a similar effect, and I managed to get one for around £15...

Yes, I agree this boils down to hitting a sweet spot in the kingdom of soap bubbles. Orester has no soap bubbles but is a likable lens.

Some people sell East German slide projectors not providing information about the lens they are equipped with. I had to enlarge low quality photos at auctions to check if that was a Diaplan or not.

Best

Jarek

Tom Caldwell said:

jarek leo said:

Tom, I haven't tried the Domiplan. I have Trioplan 50mm and it does produce some bubbles. I think I paid close to 40 USD for it with AltiX camera. It is not easy to adapt but such adaptation is doable at home. The cheapest way is truly the Diaplan - I paid 15 USD for a slide projector with the Diaplan.

Best

Jarek

Click to expand...

I suggest that "easy bubbles" are a factor of focal length and size of aperture and presumably the Meyer Trioplan 100/2.8 may have just hit that sweet spot.

Frankly I prefer the early multi-blade Orester 100/2.8 - seet little lens but maybe no "bubbles" to speak of - I think that was one lens that did not improve the breed as it became older. I find that their apertures tend to stick even with the re-design and reduction to six blades.

I have noted your Diaplan recommendation and will check it out. Maybe the Diaplan "stock price" will soar now that the secret is out.

Tom Caldwell said:

Tom Caldwell said:

Jarek

Some have suggested the Meyer Domiplan as well. Also the shorter focal length Trioplan from Meyer which is also on the expensive side.

The Bonotar 105/4.5 from Feinmess may also be another candidate but might not be fast enough. But it is a capable lens if a little Despite having a few bubble-bokeh lenses in my collection I am not that much good at provoking them - must try harder ....

--
Tom Caldwell

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
Tom Caldwell

Click to expand...

My blog entry in Polish has already spread the word about the Diaplan and there is someone here selling Diaplans adapted to Nikon or Canon mount with a helicoid for around 80 USD. East German slide projectors are more readily available here.

Best

Jarek

Tom Caldwell said:

Diaplan not so rare - I passed on the lot of 100 units and also on the 50 unit batch

Had to give everyone else a chance - did not want to corner the market .....

Don't tell Gnarly .... (another member of this forum who is very good at making hs own adapters .....)

--
Tom Caldwell

Click to expand...

Hello!

Wide open it sort of bubbles:





Best,

Alex

--
carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero

A nice image. I think the wondeful aspect of digital is that we give new life to some fogotten members of orphaned systems. The dark side is that some receive undue praise and rise in price to absurd levels.

Best

Jarek

GnarlydogOZ said:

Tom Caldwell said:

Diaplan not so rare - I passed on the lot of 100 units and also on the 50 unit batch

Had to give everyone else a chance - did not want to corner the market .....

Don't tell Gnarly .... (another member of this forum who is very good at making hs own adapters .....)

--
Tom Caldwell

Click to expand...

don't worry I am already onto it :-D

It is actually the Domiplan that started my fetish for vintage lenses (my very fist manual focus lens on digital) and if it wasn't for those bubbles maybe my initial excitement would have not been there and I could have taken a different path... maybe iPhone photography (not)

I think this is the 3rd image I took after I adapted the Domiplan


Domiplan on Olympus E-P5

Now, on Micro 4/3 any lens that is a bit soft and low contrast will perform even worse than on a larger sensor, so often the Diaplan 100/2.8 is kind of meh on that format. The Diaplan 80/2.8 works better for me

However I am bit over the hyper-bubble and exploring the cat-eye bokeh at the moment. And yes, I would not pay $1000 for a lens that has marginal use

Click to expand...

Interesting it is although not the classic soap bubble. I think this is more a coma than overcorrected spehrical aberrations.

Best

Jarek

Ching-Kuang Shene said:

GnarlydogOZ said:

However I am bit over the hyper-bubble and exploring the cat-eye bokeh at the moment. And yes, I would not pay $1000 for a lens that has marginal use

Click to expand...

Would this be counted as somewhat interested?


Spiratone 75/3.5 Enlarger Lens


Corner Crop


Look at lower right corner to see how Cat-eye bokeh changed the sense of the real scene

CK

Click to expand...

So I guess Trioplan was selected by most because the effect is most pronounced.

Best

Jarek

sensiblename99 said:

Ching-Kuang Shene said:

GnarlydogOZ said:

However I am bit over the hyper-bubble and exploring the cat-eye bokeh at the moment. And yes, I would not pay $1000 for a lens that has marginal use

Click to expand...

Would this be counted as somewhat interested?


Spiratone 75/3.5 Enlarger Lens


Corner Crop


Look at lower right corner to see how Cat-eye bokeh changed the sense of the real scene

CK

Click to expand...

There's a plethora of cheap 3 element enlarging lenses, such as the Spiratone, that have strongly overcorrected SA bokeh (ie mild soap bubble) and often swirl. For character, these crappy cheap EL's are quite good.

Click to expand...