Reading mode: Light Dark

Blu-Ray for backup?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Michael Thomas Mitchell
  • Start date Start date
Go to last post
Michael Thomas Mitchell said:
Member said:
...
Click to expand...
I've had a BluRay burner (LG MoDisc ReWriter) for quite a few years now (5-6), along with my original purchase of 100 printable BD media. I've used at most a couple dozen. I've been giving clients a choice of media delivery -- USB FD, flash card, optical disc, cloud -- and what I've heard back repeatedly is that the vast majority of my clients have no way of accessing optical media. Many admit that they have no desktop computer at home, and most of the laptops are USB only. Some have DVD drives. (I've burned more DVDs than BDs over these past half dozen years.)

Online cloud and USB flash drive are almost always the delivery method of choice. And more and more, it is the former. Mind you, these are not IT-centric people... just ordinary local clients.
Click to expand...
"Client delivery" and "archiving" are different tasks and have different needs.

Client delivery needs to be convenient for the client. It does not need to be archival, and it does not need to be write-once. It helps if it can be moved large distances rather quickly.

Archiving needs to be long term. It should be difficult to accidentally overwrite, and it's OK if it requires hardware that doesn't come standard with your computer.

Temporary cloud storage can be used for delivering small projects. USB thumb drives can be used for local clients. I find that small Hard Drives work for large projects (hundreds of GB).

Member said:
While I wouldn't care to guess on any sort of availability of the technology, BluRay is largely a dead end for me for use with clients. And, for reasons, I've previously mentioned, it's largely dead for me for archiving. Optical media in general doesn't seem like a growth industry, to be sure.
Click to expand...
If you want to use the same technology for client delivery and archiving, you may need to compromise on one or both. The solutions that are best for archiving are not necessarily the same as those that are best for client delivery.
 
Michael Fryd said:
Michael Thomas Mitchell said:
Michael Fryd said:
...
Click to expand...
I've had a BluRay burner (LG MoDisc ReWriter) for quite a few years now (5-6), along with my original purchase of 100 printable BD media. I've used at most a couple dozen. I've been giving clients a choice of media delivery -- USB FD, flash card, optical disc, cloud -- and what I've heard back repeatedly is that the vast majority of my clients have no way of accessing optical media. Many admit that they have no desktop computer at home, and most of the laptops are USB only. Some have DVD drives. (I've burned more DVDs than BDs over these past half dozen years.)

Online cloud and USB flash drive are almost always the delivery method of choice. And more and more, it is the former. Mind you, these are not IT-centric people... just ordinary local clients.
Click to expand...
"Client delivery" and "archiving" are different tasks and have different needs.

Client delivery needs to be convenient for the client. It does not need to be archival, and it does not need to be write-once. It helps if it can be moved large distances rather quickly.

Archiving needs to be long term. It should be difficult to accidentally overwrite, and it's OK if it requires hardware that doesn't come standard with your computer.

Temporary cloud storage can be used for delivering small projects. USB thumb drives can be used for local clients. I find that small Hard Drives work for large projects (hundreds of GB).
Michael Fryd said:
While I wouldn't care to guess on any sort of availability of the technology, BluRay is largely a dead end for me for use with clients. And, for reasons, I've previously mentioned, it's largely dead for me for archiving. Optical media in general doesn't seem like a growth industry, to be sure.
Click to expand...
If you want to use the same technology for client delivery and archiving, you may need to compromise on one or both. The solutions that are best for archiving are not necessarily the same as those that are best for client delivery.
Click to expand...
Actually, this is a settled issue for me. This original post was five years ago.

I don't think I implied that I needed the same tech for both archiving and clients, but discussions can get convoluted.

Things pretty much settled themselves just by asking clients what they wanted. Obviously, cloud and flash tech is not appropriate for my archiving; there's no need for them to be the same. In retrospect, I'm VERY happy to move away from optical media for anything. (I groan when they even ask for a DVD nowadays.) Compared to HDD or flash media, they are enormously clunky and, by the time you deal with printing and packing, they can cause a bit of a clutter, too.

I have no problem with others using optical media, so I'm not being argumentative. I'm just following up with my own practices. And in practice during the years since I first begun this thread, optical media has simply evolved out of my own use. And I don't mind one bit.
 
Michael Fryd said:
Michael Thomas Mitchell said:
Michael Fryd said:
...
Click to expand...
I've had a BluRay burner (LG MoDisc ReWriter) for quite a few years now (5-6), along with my original purchase of 100 printable BD media. I've used at most a couple dozen. I've been giving clients a choice of media delivery -- USB FD, flash card, optical disc, cloud -- and what I've heard back repeatedly is that the vast majority of my clients have no way of accessing optical media. Many admit that they have no desktop computer at home, and most of the laptops are USB only. Some have DVD drives. (I've burned more DVDs than BDs over these past half dozen years.)

Online cloud and USB flash drive are almost always the delivery method of choice. And more and more, it is the former. Mind you, these are not IT-centric people... just ordinary local clients.
Click to expand...
"Client delivery" and "archiving" are different tasks and have different needs.

Client delivery needs to be convenient for the client. It does not need to be archival, and it does not need to be write-once. It helps if it can be moved large distances rather quickly.

Archiving needs to be long term. It should be difficult to accidentally overwrite, and it's OK if it requires hardware that doesn't come standard with your computer.

Temporary cloud storage can be used for delivering small projects. USB thumb drives can be used for local clients. I find that small Hard Drives work for large projects (hundreds of GB).
Michael Fryd said:
While I wouldn't care to guess on any sort of availability of the technology, BluRay is largely a dead end for me for use with clients. And, for reasons, I've previously mentioned, it's largely dead for me for archiving. Optical media in general doesn't seem like a growth industry, to be sure.
Click to expand...
If you want to use the same technology for client delivery and archiving, you may need to compromise on one or both. The solutions that are best for archiving are not necessarily the same as those that are best for client delivery.
Click to expand...
Precisely. I've NEVER delivered images on Blu-ray. I use them for archiving. I deliver images on flash drive or transmit jpegs.
 
MediaArchivist said:
oldfashioned said:
BD readers are already hard to find and obsolete. this optical nonsense is getting ridiculous now.
Click to expand...
Hard to find? Let me offer you some assistance, one pro to another:

Super hard to find blu ray media and drives
Click to expand...
It's hard to find for some here people who can't get themselves out of a wet paper bag!
MediaArchivist said:
This "failure of my cursory effort defines the conversation" nonsense is getting ridiculous now. This is a pro forum, please try harder. We would appreciate it.
Click to expand...
Indeed! Talk about a poster of alternative facts!
MediaArchivist said:
MediaArchivist said:
we have the second set of backups in Miami, in a bank. moved to NYC for now: you don't wait to see if they still work after a well anticipated natural event

what is this ? la la land?
Click to expand...
Starting a fire by castigating that with which you have no experience seems to be your habit, shall we call you Herman?
Click to expand...
Don't call him for dinner. :-)

This is the kind of traction and attention from fellow members he deserves:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/60095947

--
Andrew Rodney
Author: Color Management for Photographers
The Digital Dog
http://www.digitaldog.net
 
Last edited:
digidog said:
This is the kind of traction and attention from fellow members he deserves:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/60095947
Click to expand...
This dude may actually have something of value to contribute (really!), but the layers of bombast and self aggrandized polemics make it difficult to tell. I do hope he is enjoying his new film, do you think he will post any samples that demonstrate why professionals should care (not rhetorical... show me don't tell me)?

--
Want a roXplosion!?
 
Last edited:
hotdog321 said:
I'm sorry, but the comment about not finding "obsolete" Blu-ray read/writers is simply not true.
Click to expand...
two reasons:

1. BD is fragile. The internal Pioneer in my former studio won't write bluray discs anymore. writes DVDs and CDs but no BDs. I'm guessing some kind of "protection", or a limited number or writings. who knows and I don't care to know. Then assuming that the optical discs actually keep the data is a gambling. And I have serious doubts about it to be honest.

2. The small size of data exposes the backup to unnecessary risks of mistakes. Backups must be done every day because we work every day.

I think that I know what's your problem here: look around, see where you are?

Also consider that In a studio the "photographer" doesn't actually do the backups. The process must be easy and reliable.

selecting what to backup is probably the most idiotic way to backup anything. Look, don't even start. It's not going to work.

External Hard Disks work.

The "cloud" is actually a bunch of hard disks on a server somewhere (serving many many users). Better than nothing and absolutely better than any optical fragmented in a multitude of discs.

here's how you do it:

connect the disk, run a command line to copy whatever is new to the external disk.

Done.

The assistant can do it. The receptionist can do it. Reliably.

no lalaland in a busy photo studio, no experiments and no nonsense: backups are important. Very.
 
oldfashioned said:
hotdog321 said:
I'm sorry, but the comment about not finding "obsolete" Blu-ray read/writers is simply not true.
Click to expand...
two reasons:
Click to expand...
oldfashioned said:
1. BD is fragile. The internal Pioneer in my former studio won't write bluray discs anymore. writes DVDs and CDs but no BDs.
Click to expand...
You are conflating the drives (easily replaceable) with the media. This is akin to conflating the hard drive controller with the hard drive. You can get a new hard drive controller (assuming an appropriate controller for your hard drive is still available).
oldfashioned said:
2. The small size of data exposes the backup to unnecessary risks of mistakes. Backups must be done every day because we work every day.
Click to expand...
If you use a manual process! Don't do that! If you have an automated process on your local data server, your risk is minimal.
oldfashioned said:
I think that I know what's your problem here:
Click to expand...
... omitted due to outdated backup paradigm ...

oldfashioned said:
here's how you do it:

connect the disk, run a command line to copy whatever is new to the external disk.
Click to expand...
No. Really... no. You have an application on your server do incremental backups to whatever media you are using. Hard drives, optical, SSD thumb drives, virtual cloud storage, whatever. You do have a server, correct?
oldfashioned said:
Done.

The assistant can do it. The receptionist can do it. Reliably.
Click to expand...
Better: have nobody "do it" other than swap media. If they forget (or are out sick), then your automated backup process is still performed.
oldfashioned said:
no lalaland in a busy photo studio, no experiments and no nonsense: backups are important. Very.
Click to expand...
Which is why we want to remove the human element from the process.
 
MediaArchivist said:
oldfashioned said:
hotdog321 said:
I'm sorry, but the comment about not finding "obsolete" Blu-ray read/writers is simply not true.
Click to expand...
two reasons:

1. BD is fragile. The internal Pioneer in my former studio won't write bluray discs anymore. writes DVDs and CDs but no BDs.
Click to expand...
You are conflating the drives (easily replaceable) with the media. This is akin to conflating the hard drive controller with the hard drive. You can get a new hard drive controller (assuming an appropriate controller for your hard drive is still available).
MediaArchivist said:
2. The small size of data exposes the backup to unnecessary risks of mistakes. Backups must be done every day because we work every day.
Click to expand...
If you use a manual process! Don't do that! If you have an automated process on your local data server, your risk is minimal.
MediaArchivist said:
I think that I know what's your problem here:
Click to expand...
... omitted due to outdated backup paradigm ...
MediaArchivist said:
here's how you do it:

connect the disk, run a command line to copy whatever is new to the external disk.
Click to expand...
No. Really... no. You have an application on your server do incremental backups to whatever media you are using. Hard drives, optical, SSD thumb drives, virtual cloud storage, whatever. You do have a server, correct?
MediaArchivist said:
Done.

The assistant can do it. The receptionist can do it. Reliably.
Click to expand...
Better: have nobody "do it" other than swap media. If they forget (or are out sick), then your automated backup process is still performed.
MediaArchivist said:
no lalaland in a busy photo studio, no experiments and no nonsense: backups are important. Very.
Click to expand...
Which is why we want to remove the human element from the process.
Click to expand...
im gonna be nice and urge you to read my post again. It's all in there

about the "application" to use know that I don't care about any software that requires mouse clicks and idiotic syncs in background . We do it with a single command line, in CMD, DOS command xcopy. I even posted the line in here. With that it will be practically impossible to make human mistakes.

Why do I have to repeat myself over and over to you? Read my posts, no?
 
MediaArchivist said:
digidog said:
This is the kind of traction and attention from fellow members he deserves:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/60095947
Click to expand...
This dude may actually have something of value to contribute (really!), but the layers of bombast and self aggrandized polemics make it difficult to tell. I do hope he is enjoying his new film, do you think he will post any samples that demonstrate why professionals should care (not rhetorical... show me don't tell me)?
Click to expand...
 
oldfashioned said:
im gonna be nice and urge you to read my post again. It's all in there
Click to expand...
We are professionals, there is no need to bend over backwards to be nice. We can take it.
oldfashioned said:
about the "application" to use know that I don't care about any software that requires mouse clicks and idiotic syncs in background .
Click to expand...
  • I did not suggest any process that would require mouse clicks. Read again.
  • Background syncs were developed because of, not in spite of, idiots.
That you don't care about a universally accepted professional backup paradigm indicates you are not the professional you claim to be-- or at least your professional skills do not extend to data management techniques in the modern world.
oldfashioned said:
We do it with a single command line, in CMD, DOS command xcopy. I even posted the line in here. With that it will be practically impossible to make human mistakes.
Click to expand...
Horrible advice, both for Windows users and Mac users. You are assuming that everyone else uses the same outdated data and drive layout that you (still) do. Just because you cling dearly to to old fashioned paradigms from the 1980s does not make them appropriate for modern professionals.
oldfashioned said:
Why do I have to repeat myself over and over to you?
Click to expand...
You don't. Please stop.
oldfashioned said:
Read my posts, no?
Click to expand...
I have, and I am concerned that others may as well. You are way behind the curve here, and offering solutions that are probably not very good even for your very specific needs.
 
hotdog321 said:
oldfashioned said:
hotdog321 said:
I live in Houston. Believe me, I always remain conscious of the possibility of flooding. This won't effect Blu-ray other than having to clean up a mess.
Click to expand...
BD readers are already hard to find and obsolete. this optical nonsense is getting ridiculous now.

we have the second set of backups in Miami, in a bank. moved to NYC for now: you don't wait to see if they still work after a well anticipated natural event

what is this ? la la land?
Click to expand...
I'm sorry, but the comment about not finding "obsolete" Blu-ray read/writers is simply not true. I needed an external Blu-ray reader the other day for my laptop and I found several choices at the local Microcenter, not to mention dozens at Amazon and Fry's.

My one-year-old desktop computer (PC) also came with an internal Blue-ray read/writer. Furthermore, many movies appear on Blu-ray and some manufacturers make dual-purpose devices. Your post is simply wrong.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

G
Cloud back up for Senior Citizen
Replies
1
Views
3K
gurtch
G
G
Upping my Backup Game
Replies
15
Views
698
ronscuba
R
ray_burnimage
Playing the "Used Game" and Consolidating to one Mac
2 3
Replies
47
Views
29K
bakubo
B
Manzur Fahim
Even cloud backup is not always safe!
Replies
9
Views
2K
JimKasson
JimKasson
Philip Eihuyar
Opinion on the future of physical storage media What do you use?
Replies
17
Views
477
tapirek
T

Keyboard shortcuts

f
Forum
m
My threads
Mobile site
About
Editorial content
Cameras & Lenses
Community
All content, design, and layout are Copyright © 1998–2025 Digital Photography Review All Rights Reserved.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
When you use DPReview links to buy products, the site may earn a commission.
©GPS Media - Guides, Products, Services.
Back
Top