Biallystock
Active member
Think about getting a SSD Fusion external drive.
Almost as fast as SSD and much bigger capacity at a way lower price.
Almost as fast as SSD and much bigger capacity at a way lower price.
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Need a new iMac for Post-processing, only.
- Thread starter Tord S Eriksson
- Start date
Biallystock
Active member
"Which of these things is not like the other".
The small amount you'll save on the PC, because quality costs no matter whose hardware you buy, will be paid for in pain later on.
Especially for any graphics or photo work. I've given a long list elsewhere of just how much better Finder in OSX is than Explorer to find, view, sort and manipulate collections.
Windows is still substantially clumsier than MacOS, Windows 10 is a major improvement but there are persistent problems for me. Also the Mac is a much healthier environment to be working in, with excellent whole of machine support. Blame shifting is a PC/Windows art form.
I'll toss in one other argument that most people don't consider, being able to simply and easily switch start up Systems and Drives on the Mac. It's a real pain to install a second or third OS on Windows and switch.
The small amount you'll save on the PC, because quality costs no matter whose hardware you buy, will be paid for in pain later on.
Especially for any graphics or photo work. I've given a long list elsewhere of just how much better Finder in OSX is than Explorer to find, view, sort and manipulate collections.
Windows is still substantially clumsier than MacOS, Windows 10 is a major improvement but there are persistent problems for me. Also the Mac is a much healthier environment to be working in, with excellent whole of machine support. Blame shifting is a PC/Windows art form.
I'll toss in one other argument that most people don't consider, being able to simply and easily switch start up Systems and Drives on the Mac. It's a real pain to install a second or third OS on Windows and switch.
Tord S Eriksson
Forum Pro
Aperture, mostly, especially zooming in/out, and using Noiseware (a lovely Aperture add-on)!
For years I had no issues of any kind, now it is misbehaving most of the time!
How?!
Early 2009, running El Capitain! 3.06 GHz, 8GB. 256 SSD, installed by the local Apple experts, and the glass was replaced at the same time (too much dirt!).
Amazing speed gain, but now it misbehaves a lot!
Tord S Eriksson
Forum Pro
Ordered a new iMac today (thanks to my mother, long gone, who took an insurance that got me the right amount of funds Yesterday)!
So I ended up with a latest model 21.5" iMac, with 16GB, and a 1TB ssd. Plus an external 2TB Airport.
So I ended up with a latest model 21.5" iMac, with 16GB, and a 1TB ssd. Plus an external 2TB Airport.
Biallystock
Active member
The OptiPlex 7050 i7 is not US$1200, it starts at US$1395 on sale, and then you have to add a large high quality monitor to match the iMacs which also is not $500. The Dell UltraSharp 32 costs US$1,399.99. The other models are not a match for the iMac's screen. Add Microsoft Office Home & Business with Acrobat US$224 and I don't know how you are ever going to get Apple's support. Dell will fix dodgy hardware but that is about all you'll get out of them.
So I make that at least US$3018.99 for the Dell with a matching display, but no Thunderbolt 3, cheaper overall finish, much smaller internal drive, a lot of cables and no access to the equivalent of Apple's support and AppleStore.
iMac Retina 5K Display 4.2GHz i7 Processor 16Gb RAM 2TB Fusion Drive Radeon Pro 580 with 8GB 2 Thunderbolt 3 ports US$2499 (RRP, I always get a deal).
That is US$600 less than the Dell with much bigger storage and is way better built.
If you want a seriously pumped up Mac the iMac Pro is due in December. It will of course cost, but so does a seriously pumped up Pro PC. There are no magic shortcuts to getting quality.
I've been through this a million times. When I pointed out all the problems and things I can not do on my Windows 10 Dell laptop to the people in the Microsoft Store they said I should have bought a BETTER model! I guess they meant the Microsoft Surface which is really big bucks and it is still the same Windows 10 with the same problems and same unenthusiastic buck passing support.
So I make that at least US$3018.99 for the Dell with a matching display, but no Thunderbolt 3, cheaper overall finish, much smaller internal drive, a lot of cables and no access to the equivalent of Apple's support and AppleStore.
iMac Retina 5K Display 4.2GHz i7 Processor 16Gb RAM 2TB Fusion Drive Radeon Pro 580 with 8GB 2 Thunderbolt 3 ports US$2499 (RRP, I always get a deal).
That is US$600 less than the Dell with much bigger storage and is way better built.
If you want a seriously pumped up Mac the iMac Pro is due in December. It will of course cost, but so does a seriously pumped up Pro PC. There are no magic shortcuts to getting quality.
I've been through this a million times. When I pointed out all the problems and things I can not do on my Windows 10 Dell laptop to the people in the Microsoft Store they said I should have bought a BETTER model! I guess they meant the Microsoft Surface which is really big bucks and it is still the same Windows 10 with the same problems and same unenthusiastic buck passing support.
Biallystock
Active member
So really your problem is with Aperture (which is now history) + Noiseware, not the iMac.
I am running Aperture on MacOS Sierra on an iMac 2011 with 12Gb RAM without problems but I do not have Noiseware and may not push it as hard as you do. My usage is moderately light.
Make sure your hard drive has plenty of spare room, I'd say 20% free if you do a lot of photo editing. Attach a larger fast external fusion drive to clear off as much as possible from your small internal SSD. Extra RAM would help, unfortunately you have the maximum 8Gb for your model.
I'd sort the probable suspect which is Noiseware, which is not 64bit. Have you been back to them? Also looked at alternatives? Super Denoising, NDNoise (free), AbsoluteDenoiserFree, NoiseNinja, PhotoKit and Kodak Gem are alternatives.
Because changing over everything, hardware and software at major expense to still not have your software set-up seems a bad idea.
I am running Aperture on MacOS Sierra on an iMac 2011 with 12Gb RAM without problems but I do not have Noiseware and may not push it as hard as you do. My usage is moderately light.
Make sure your hard drive has plenty of spare room, I'd say 20% free if you do a lot of photo editing. Attach a larger fast external fusion drive to clear off as much as possible from your small internal SSD. Extra RAM would help, unfortunately you have the maximum 8Gb for your model.
I'd sort the probable suspect which is Noiseware, which is not 64bit. Have you been back to them? Also looked at alternatives? Super Denoising, NDNoise (free), AbsoluteDenoiserFree, NoiseNinja, PhotoKit and Kodak Gem are alternatives.
Because changing over everything, hardware and software at major expense to still not have your software set-up seems a bad idea.
Tord S Eriksson
Forum Pro
I hear you, Biallystock!
So I paid around $3,000 for a 21.5" iMac, with 16GB RAM, and a 1 GB ssd!
Tord S Eriksson
Forum Pro
A few good ideas here! I'll see what Noiseware can come up with!
Biallystock
Active member
Why pay all that for the much inferior 21"? Small lower quality screen, no RAM expansion and over the top expensive 1TB SSD, which is where all the money went.
I'd buy the 27" iMac i5 (the i7 is a lot more expensive for little gain), max with 3rd Party RAM and attach fast external storage. You can get Thunderbolt3 drives which are blisteringly fast but very expensive, or just a very fast but much cheaper Fusion SSD drive attached to the USB3.
I'd buy the 27" iMac i5 (the i7 is a lot more expensive for little gain), max with 3rd Party RAM and attach fast external storage. You can get Thunderbolt3 drives which are blisteringly fast but very expensive, or just a very fast but much cheaper Fusion SSD drive attached to the USB3.
Biallystock
Active member
There is very little performance difference between Fusion SSD drives and SSD drives but there is a HUGE difference in price and capacity. SSDs make sense in laptops because they are immune to shock, but not in a desktop computer.
If money is no object then fine, but people make odd decisions skimping on valuable assets like screen quality and real estate and RAM upgradability and squandering it on marginally better CPUs.
Also paying Apple for RAM is nuts. Pay Apple for the minimum and install your own maxed out RAM, best bucks you'll ever spend.
In my experience if it is paid in bits and drabs Users don't add up the often excessive total, nor look at what they spend their money on in real life over the ownership period of the computer. Apple Users also seem to think they have to buy from Apple. I never do. Just wait for a sale then buy from a 3rd party.
If money is no object then fine, but people make odd decisions skimping on valuable assets like screen quality and real estate and RAM upgradability and squandering it on marginally better CPUs.
Also paying Apple for RAM is nuts. Pay Apple for the minimum and install your own maxed out RAM, best bucks you'll ever spend.
In my experience if it is paid in bits and drabs Users don't add up the often excessive total, nor look at what they spend their money on in real life over the ownership period of the computer. Apple Users also seem to think they have to buy from Apple. I never do. Just wait for a sale then buy from a 3rd party.
Tom_N
Forum Pro
My understanding is that the OS does not officially support external Fusion drives. You might be able to set them up anyway, but only at your own risk.
If I had to guess, I'd say the issue is that Apple wants to be sure that both the HDD, and the SSD, will be available, and will become available at around the same time. After all, the Fusion volume is spread over the SSD and one partition of the HDD …
Biallystock
Active member
I boot MacOS Sierra up from an external 1Tb 2.5" Fusion SSD drive plugged into my USB 2.0 ports. No problems
It is a volume exactly the same as any other, just fast, despite the USB 2.0. The Mac doesn't care what is inside the USB volume.
I experimented running the Fusion SSD drive through a Thunderbolt to USB3 adapter which was faster. Whilst I didn't experience any problems I am cautious and don't want to run my System through too many interfaces. I might try it in a Firewire 800 case which would be the best connection for my model iMac.
It works well via the USB ports and mounts VERY quickly. Got a great price on the drive and installed it in a spare case I had lying around. Very happy!
It is a volume exactly the same as any other, just fast, despite the USB 2.0. The Mac doesn't care what is inside the USB volume.
I experimented running the Fusion SSD drive through a Thunderbolt to USB3 adapter which was faster. Whilst I didn't experience any problems I am cautious and don't want to run my System through too many interfaces. I might try it in a Firewire 800 case which would be the best connection for my model iMac.
It works well via the USB ports and mounts VERY quickly. Got a great price on the drive and installed it in a spare case I had lying around. Very happy!
Tom_N
Forum Pro
If there is only a single physical device, then by definition it is not a Fusion volume. A Fusion volume is a logical construct that Core Storage creates out of a SSD and a HDD partition.
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Biallystock
Active member
No it is a HD with a SSD card on it which the Mac reads as a single volume.
Tom_N
Forum Pro
That's a hybrid hard drive.
Fusion Drive – Mac OS X manages the placement of files (or pieces of files) on the SSD or on the HDD. SSD is relatively large (24 –128 GB). Fusion volume should NOT be directly accessed by other OSes (e.g., Windows, Linux) that have no clue as to the proper way to read or maintain it.
Hybrid Hard Drive – Controller manages the SSD cache in a way that is transparent to the host operating system. Amount of flash is much lower than with a Fusion Drive, in some cases only 32 – 128 MB, in others, 8 GB.
greenmanphoto
Senior Member
Tord,
If you buy a new one, stay away from the bottom-end machine. It's really not all that impressive, and it's definitely well below the performance of the machines that aren't priced TOO much more.
Also, if you can order it elsewhere, and you get a 27-inch machine, you can save money on the RAM by buying third-party and installing it yourself. VERY easy to do, with a little panel in the back that pops off, providing access to the RAM slots.
The new 21.5-inch iMacs also allow for adding RAM in later, but it must be brought to an Apple store to do so, IIRC. This is a new direction for Apple on these machines.
I just ordered a new 27-inch iMac with the 4.2 GHz processor, a 3TB fusion drive, and ordered an extra 16GB of RAM from Other World Computing. I'm currently in Australia, so the computer is probably sitting and waiting for me.
You can buy relatively new iMac models used at various places in the US, but I'm not sure about overseas. Apple, of course, sells refurbished units here, and you might check on their site for your location. Often times, you can save a decent amount of money and get close to, if not exactly, what you want, and it still comes with a full warranty from Apple.
Good luck with your purchase, whatever it may be!
Sam
If you buy a new one, stay away from the bottom-end machine. It's really not all that impressive, and it's definitely well below the performance of the machines that aren't priced TOO much more.
Also, if you can order it elsewhere, and you get a 27-inch machine, you can save money on the RAM by buying third-party and installing it yourself. VERY easy to do, with a little panel in the back that pops off, providing access to the RAM slots.
The new 21.5-inch iMacs also allow for adding RAM in later, but it must be brought to an Apple store to do so, IIRC. This is a new direction for Apple on these machines.
I just ordered a new 27-inch iMac with the 4.2 GHz processor, a 3TB fusion drive, and ordered an extra 16GB of RAM from Other World Computing. I'm currently in Australia, so the computer is probably sitting and waiting for me.
You can buy relatively new iMac models used at various places in the US, but I'm not sure about overseas. Apple, of course, sells refurbished units here, and you might check on their site for your location. Often times, you can save a decent amount of money and get close to, if not exactly, what you want, and it still comes with a full warranty from Apple.
Good luck with your purchase, whatever it may be!
Sam
Biallystock
Active member
You are right of course, I should not have used Apple's proprietary name for generic hardware.
Hybrid drives come with varying amounts of SSD capacity, which of course affects their price. My Western Digital 1Tb was cheaper and off the top of my head contained a smaller SSD card, but the reviews were good, and by my own experience it gives a substantial boost to start ups after 2 or 3 cycles. Not much slower than Apple's Fusion drives or a full SSD drive.
The point is that you get massively more bangs for bucks if you target spending where it has most effect. The money saved can go to something else that makes a big difference, like better and bigger screen real estate.
Hybrid drives come with varying amounts of SSD capacity, which of course affects their price. My Western Digital 1Tb was cheaper and off the top of my head contained a smaller SSD card, but the reviews were good, and by my own experience it gives a substantial boost to start ups after 2 or 3 cycles. Not much slower than Apple's Fusion drives or a full SSD drive.
The point is that you get massively more bangs for bucks if you target spending where it has most effect. The money saved can go to something else that makes a big difference, like better and bigger screen real estate.
Tom_N
Forum Pro
"Fusion Drive" is not a "proprietary name for generic hardware". That's like saying that "Ford RAM is Ford's proprietary name for a generic passenger car". "RAM" may indeed be a "proprietary" Ford name, and trucks may drive upon the same roads as passenger cars, but that does not make a truck a "proprietary passenger sedan". (Nor is pointing this out a knock on passenger sedans, but they are not the same thing.)
Aside: I'm sure that the Apple engineers who wrote the Core Storage software will be happy to hear that there is no software component to a Fusion Drive, that it is all just a matter of throwing a SSD and a HDD into the same case – and presto! – Fusion Drive! Except that without the software they wrote, there could be no Fusion Drives. I don't think I know any of the engineers who wrote this software, but I do think they deserve credit for their work.
Just like a photographer prefers hearing "You take really good pictures" to "What type of camera do you have? I've got to get one, because it takes really good pictures."
Tom_N
Forum Pro
Concur. The low-end 21.5-inch machine is what I call a "price-point machine", one from which too much functionality has been stripped, relative to the next step up.
The low-end 21.5-inch machine
- Has only two cores – unlike other iMacs, which have four.
- Does not have a Retina Display or a wide-gamut (DCI-P3) display.
- Does not have a discrete GPU.
Tord S Eriksson
Forum Pro
I ordered the top of the range 21.5" version, roughly the same performance as the least expensive 27".
Yes, you have to send it in, but the RAM themselves are easily replaceable.
Sounds like a great combination!
Not seen any around here in Sweden, sadly!
I did, and no luck!
Thanks, it will arrive next week, I hope!
21.5" iMac, 16GB, 1TB ssd, and a 2TB Airport.
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