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D7200 - Banding and General Performance

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cgarrard

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So I've recently tested a D7200, and found banding to be an issue in shadows. Have others found the same thing here? It's not as impressive of a camera as I thought it might be based on the testing online and the reviews, etc.

Carl
 
You are pulling the shadows by 5 stops. That will always produce artifacts. Compared to the D7100 and other bodies, the D7200 is a big improvement. Not as good as the D7000 in that regard but still pretty impressive. There is not a camera out there that I can't get to show some banding in some circumstances. There's a reason you find banding a major issue with the D7200 and the rest of the world, in general, does not.

BTW, Did you pull the shadows using a JPEG image or in RAW? If RAW, what RAW convertor did you use?

You also found the Canon T2i is better regards high ISO performance when in fact the D7200 has about a half to one stop advantage when measured in controlled conditions. The reason you found the T2i better, was due to how you compared rather than actual difference. There is a reason so many sites found the opposite conclusion.

--
My opinions are my own and not those of DPR or its administration. They carry no 'special' value (except to me and Lacie of course)
 
Last edited:
cgarrard said:
So I've recently tested a D7200, and found banding to be an issue in shadows. Have others found the same thing here? It's not as impressive of a camera as I thought it might be based on the testing online and the reviews, etc.

Carl
Click to expand...
 
cgarrard said:
So I've recently tested a D7200, and found banding to be an issue in shadows. Have others found the same thing here? It's not as impressive of a camera as I thought it might be based on the testing online and the reviews, etc.

Carl
Click to expand...
 
I have seen banding on one occasion when I had the D7200 previously. This one during an outdoor Christmas Wonderland event where we took photos against the lighted Christmas tree. When boosting the shadows in post to get the faces to expose properly, I could see banding in the shadows.

Here's an extreme example (cropped away the bottom part of the picture with the face for privacy reasons):



dab1655b543c4aed9983c41bcdb74564.jpg


Of course, once I tweaked the exposure further such that the sky returns to black, I don't notice this banding any more.

I think this is just a peculiarity of the Toshiba sensor in the D7100/D7200. When pushing shadows, the image tends to take on a magenta tint with linear lines as opposed to the more random noise found in the Sony-manufactured sensor on my old D5500 and current d7500.
 
trenzterra said:
I have seen banding on one occasion when I had the D7200 previously. This one during an outdoor Christmas Wonderland event where we took photos against the lighted Christmas tree. When boosting the shadows in post to get the faces to expose properly, I could see banding in the shadows.

Here's an extreme example (cropped away the bottom part of the picture with the face for privacy reasons):

dab1655b543c4aed9983c41bcdb74564.jpg


Of course, once I tweaked the exposure further such that the sky returns to black, I don't notice this banding any more.

I think this is just a peculiarity of the Toshiba sensor in the D7100/D7200. When pushing shadows, the image tends to take on a magenta tint with linear lines as opposed to the more random noise found in the Sony-manufactured sensor on my old D5500 and current d7500.
Click to expand...
To hear that "banding has been completely eliminated" is false, even if you have to go to extremes to find it. Well, these days a lot of photographers are using ISO 100 as a base ISO and just pulling shadows in Raw instead of shooting at higher ISO's. Kind of the new "norm".

--
http://www.project-impulse.blogspot.com (Ongoing Project)
http://www.photographic-central.blogspot.com (Gear Reviews)
http://www.carlgarrard.blogspot.com/ (Best Photographs Compilation)
 
Mako2011 said:
You are pulling the shadows by 5 stops. That will always produce artifacts. Compared to the D7100 and other bodies, the D7200 is a big improvement. Not as good as the D7000 in that regard but still pretty impressive. There is not a camera out there that I can't get to show some banding in some circumstances. There's a reason you find banding a major issue with the D7200 and the rest of the world, in general, does not.

BTW, Did you pull the shadows using a JPEG image or in RAW? If RAW, what RAW convertor did you use?

You also found the Canon T2i is better regards high ISO performance when in fact the D7200 has about a half to one stop advantage when measured in controlled conditions. The reason you found the T2i better, was due to how you compared rather than actual difference. There is a reason so many sites found the opposite conclusion.
Click to expand...
 
cgarrard said:
8355eafb21ad4a3196996ce77b65d30f.jpg
Click to expand...
An easy fix...even if JPEG





Just a 10 sec tweak to mitigate.

Given what is likely an extreme case. Doesn't seem an issue
Member said:
--
http://www.project-impulse.blogspot.com (Ongoing Project)
http://www.photographic-central.blogspot.com (Gear Reviews)
http://www.carlgarrard.blogspot.com/ (Best Photographs Compilation)
Click to expand...


--
My opinions are my own and not those of DPR or its administration. They carry no 'special' value (except to me and Lacie of course)
 

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cgarrard said:
Mako2011 said:
You are pulling the shadows by 5 stops. That will always produce artifacts. Compared to the D7100 and other bodies, the D7200 is a big improvement. Not as good as the D7000 in that regard but still pretty impressive. There is not a camera out there that I can't get to show some banding in some circumstances. There's a reason you find banding a major issue with the D7200 and the rest of the world, in general, does not.

BTW, Did you pull the shadows using a JPEG image or in RAW? If RAW, what RAW convertor did you use?

You also found the Canon T2i is better regards high ISO performance when in fact the D7200 has about a half to one stop advantage when measured in controlled conditions. The reason you found the T2i better, was due to how you compared rather than actual difference. There is a reason so many sites found the opposite conclusion.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Go to D7500... There's no banding on Sony sensor.
 
But as Mako said: In D7100 and D7200 it's easy to fix it in major situations.
 
Mako2011 said:
cgarrard said:
Mako2011 said:
You are pulling the shadows by 5 stops. That will always produce artifacts. Compared to the D7100 and other bodies, the D7200 is a big improvement. Not as good as the D7000 in that regard but still pretty impressive. There is not a camera out there that I can't get to show some banding in some circumstances. There's a reason you find banding a major issue with the D7200 and the rest of the world, in general, does not.

BTW, Did you pull the shadows using a JPEG image or in RAW? If RAW, what RAW convertor did you use?

You also found the Canon T2i is better regards high ISO performance when in fact the D7200 has about a half to one stop advantage when measured in controlled conditions. The reason you found the T2i better, was due to how you compared rather than actual difference. There is a reason so many sites found the opposite conclusion.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
cgarrard said:
Yes of course raw, and from ACR.
Click to expand...
Thanks.

Sometimes ACR isn't the best when it comes to NEF conversion. I've found sometimes, not always, Nikon software has a tendency to show less artifacts in conversion. Just something to consider. And as seen above.....very easy to remove/mitigate. Just not a body out there that is 100% banding free.....D7000/D5100 is close though
 
cgarrard said:
Overall its a great camera, but the IQ is not as impressive as it may "seem" based on rave reviews/tests. It's above average for the APS-C sector, IMHO. YMMV :)
Click to expand...
Compared to the camera it replaced and other competitors at the time, it is impressive, You did what looks like a 5EV pull to show banding. You could have showed that with the D7100 with less than 2 EV. So in comparison....impressive (evoking admiration...some would say). And also impressive when compared to other manufactures as well....with some exceptions of course. Also remember you are taking issue with reviews done at a time when it was being directly compared to the D7100 (which has the same sensor as the D7200). Context matters.

D7500 still shows banding is some cases. I see it as improved over the D7200 though. That's not impressive :)
 
Mako2011 said:
cgarrard said:
Overall its a great camera, but the IQ is not as impressive as it may "seem" based on rave reviews/tests. It's above average for the APS-C sector, IMHO. YMMV :)
Click to expand...
Compared to the camera it replaced and other competitors at the time, it is impressive, You did what looks like a 5EV pull to show banding. You could have showed that with the D7100 with less than 2 EV. So in comparison....impressive (evoking admiration...some would say). And also impressive when compared to other manufactures as well....with some exceptions of course. Also remember you are taking issue with reviews done at a time when it was being directly compared to the D7100 (which has the same sensor as the D7200). Context matters.

D7500 still shows banding is some cases. I see it as improved over the D7200 though. That's not impressive :)
Click to expand...
 
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