Upgrade to D7500 or D7200

Lynn876 · Jul 13, 2017

Thanks Wry, yes I get a little of that blur at ss 1200 on the animals legs. But I don't get the sharpness I want as often. I've found some blur at 1600 as well.

Basically, this was my first time really using this camera and I wanted to push it in low-ish light to see what it did. Will do the same this weekend with the NR off and will have an opportunity to shoot night time as well. I don't have time with an 8 second or less ride to change things much, so I generally go for a little underexposure in low light and correct it in software. At 1/800 speed (night time) I'm not usually happy with most of the images.

With the D7000 I wasn't too happy with the IQ higher than 400 at the most. This is the reason I got a D72000. I hope the D7200 has better IQ in low light. & I'm here because I'm curious about the D7500. & now I'm wondering if the low light capability on any of these cameras is because of noise filters.

André BARELIER · Jul 14, 2017

Lynn876 said:
Thanks Wry, yes I get a little of that blur at ss 1200 on the animals legs. But I don't get the sharpness I want as often. I've found some blur at 1600 as well.

Basically, this was my first time really using this camera and I wanted to push it in low-ish light to see what it did. Will do the same this weekend with the NR off and will have an opportunity to shoot night time as well. I don't have time with an 8 second or less ride to change things much, so I generally go for a little underexposure in low light and correct it in software. At 1/800 speed (night time) I'm not usually happy with most of the images.

With the D7000 I wasn't too happy with the IQ higher than 400 at the most. This is the reason I got a D72000. I hope the D7200 has better IQ in low light. & I'm here because I'm curious about the D7500. & now I'm wondering if the low light capability on any of these cameras is because of noise filters.

Hi Lynn,

Looking at the 100% crops you posted, it seems to me that some NR is at work in these images.

Did you use jpeg or raw? Since you don't mention any conversion software, I suppose you used jpeg.

If you have time to process your pictures from raw, DxO, NX-D or ACR will do a better job at removing noise while keeping détails than the in-camera converter.

Also, have a look at the default picture control settings. I always use a "neutral" picture control, which gives slightly soft images, that need some sharpening in PP. That might explain the softness you're noting.

One last thing, did you check the AF fine tune setting? If the previous owner used the same lens as you, maybe he had recorded some correction, which could apply to your own lens. This is just speculation: I don't know if the AF fine tune engine stores only the type of the lens or its serial number. In the last case, my remark is irrelevant.

Just my 2cts...

grannygear · Jul 14, 2017

for what its worth, I shoot concerts every week with a D7100/17-55 2.8 and a D600/70-200 Tamron 2.8 VC. I never shoot higher than ISO 6400, and use minimal NR.

Picked up a Lumix G7 as an inexpensive 4k video solution. Wish I could have just used a Nikon body, but Lumix video is way better. Atm, just using the kit lens and adapted 50mm 1.8g. Will try the 17-55 at some point, but its always on the D7100.

Lynn876 · Jul 14, 2017

André BARELIER said:
Lynn876 said:

Thanks Wry, yes I get a little of that blur at ss 1200 on the animals legs. But I don't get the sharpness I want as often. I've found some blur at 1600 as well.

Basically, this was my first time really using this camera and I wanted to push it in low-ish light to see what it did. Will do the same this weekend with the NR off and will have an opportunity to shoot night time as well. I don't have time with an 8 second or less ride to change things much, so I generally go for a little underexposure in low light and correct it in software. At 1/800 speed (night time) I'm not usually happy with most of the images.

With the D7000 I wasn't too happy with the IQ higher than 400 at the most. This is the reason I got a D72000. I hope the D7200 has better IQ in low light. & I'm here because I'm curious about the D7500. & now I'm wondering if the low light capability on any of these cameras is because of noise filters.

Click to expand...

Hi Lynn,

Looking at the 100% crops you posted, it seems to me that some NR is at work in these images.

Did you use jpeg or raw? Since you don't mention any conversion software, I suppose you used jpeg.

If you have time to process your pictures from raw, DxO, NX-D or ACR will do a better job at removing noise while keeping détails than the in-camera converter.

Also, have a look at the default picture control settings. I always use a "neutral" picture control, which gives slightly soft images, that need some sharpening in PP. That might explain the softness you're noting.

One last thing, did you check the AF fine tune setting? If the previous owner used the same lens as you, maybe he had recorded some correction, which could apply to your own lens. This is just speculation: I don't know if the AF fine tune engine stores only the type of the lens or its serial number. In the last case, my remark is irrelevant.

Just my 2cts...

--
André
http://a.barelier.free.fr/

Hi Andre, YES! thank you for all your help! I turned off both NRs and then checked the camera and lens focus with 2 zooms. Both were off somewhere between -9 and -10 steps, so I believe it's the camera. Have set it to -9 and just checked the focus in the backyard and it looks good at mid range for the zooms. I think it was both the NR and backfocusing.

I use raw.

Also the previous owner had "vivid" on which was really messing with image resolution as well. It's now on Neutral.

I did a test image in low light at 6500 and was impressed. Not something I'd blow up to size, but much better than the D7000.

Lynn876 · Jul 14, 2017

Mystery member said:
WryC

I think that NR works at all ISO settings, but the effect only becomes apparent at ISO 1600 and higher. They cover a wide range of ISO in these tests...

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/nikon-d7200/nikon-d7200HI_ISO_NR.HTM

Thanks for all your help Wry!I I think it was both the NR and backfocusing. I turned off both NRs and then checked the camera and lens focus with 2 zooms. Both were off somewhere between -9 and -10 steps, so I believe it's the camera and not the lenses. Have set it to -9 and just checked the focus in the backyard and it looks good at mid range for the zooms. Fingers crossed...

Mystery member · Jul 14, 2017

Lynn876 said:
Lynn876 said:

WryC

I think that NR works at all ISO settings, but the effect only becomes apparent at ISO 1600 and higher.

Click to expand...

Thanks for all your help Wry!I I think it was both the NR and backfocusing. I turned off both NRs and then checked the camera and lens focus with 2 zooms. Both were off somewhere between -9 and -10 steps, so I believe it's the camera and not the lenses. Have set it to -9 and just checked the focus in the backyard and it looks good at mid range for the zooms. Fingers crossed...

I have some history of AF-FT deliberations and I can assure you that "9 or 10 steps" will have a large effect. At that level, I tend to think "It's just not focusing right" rather than it being a back/front focus issue, but that's just semantics.

BTW, ±2 units is about as close as you can get it to "perfect", so this means that testing at intervals of 5 units is often good enough, and the setting that looks the best will almost certainly be close to the exact setting. I don't fret over the last unit.

It's usually not either the camera or the lens, but the particular combination. Most of my lenses are within ±2 units of the zero setting, yet one particular lens required +8 adjustment. The same lens was perfectly fine on another camera.

Similarly, I have a Sigma 17-70mm that's in perfect focus at all FLs on my D3200 (no AF-FT), but would require adjustment at multiple focal lengths were I to use it on my D7100. (The necessary adjustment would be +5 from 17 to 50mm, but -10 at 70mm).

Satyaa · Jul 14, 2017

WryCuda said:
Recently, I realised that it's possible to have three separate button customisations, namely for U1 and U2, as well as another for the default PASM modes. (Depends on what order you do the button assignments and U1/U2 saves).

Yes, I use those frequently. My U1 is set to A-priority with slower shooting speed. My U2 is set to S-priority with faster shooting speed and BBF. Defaults in PASM are tuned for P mode, but they mostly work for M as well.

After a while, I found the BBF so convenient that I updated my PASM and U1 settings to use BBF. One downside to that was that when someone else uses my camera, they are not aware of BBF and think that AF doesn't work. I ask them to use it in Full Auto or Auto No-Flash mode

What I liked on Pentax was that each of the P-Av-TV-M-TAv modes saves maintains its separate settings! That's like having five separate memory settings!! I first thought that the U1 to U5 would be a good jump up from my D7100/D7200 experience. However, after using each shooting mode with its own settings, and the green dot button (wow!), I rarely had to use U1 to U2. I wish that Nikon implements some of those features.

Satyaa · Jul 14, 2017

André BARELIER said:
You mean D7500 vs D7200 or D750 vs D7500?

I have a D7200, and I'm very pleased with it. I would not pay twice its price to get a D7500. YMMV

Since you're interested in low light pictures, these were shot at iso 8000.

Andre, both these shots are very good and better than anything I have pulled off.

This first one in particular is very impressive.

André BARELIER said:
The great Pharoah Sanders. He's getting old....

Chucho Valdez. A great concert...

--
André
http://a.barelier.free.fr/

--
'Knowledge is the only form of wealth that increases when shared' - unknown
My FZ2500 album: https://flic.kr/s/aHskQU7Thb
My D7200 album: https://flic.kr/s/aHskQjybAS

Satyaa · Jul 14, 2017

Thanks for pointing out your observations. I hope that they help me.

I have also been noticing more than expected noise from my D7200. I have high ISO NR turned on, expecting that it only affects when the ISO is high. I will turn it OFF now.

I think that both DxO and NX-D will do a better job than the camera does.

Thanks.

Lynn876 · Jul 14, 2017

So interesting, thank you. This particular camera had a trunk slammed on it. Had to send it to get repaired as the casing came unhinged off the gaskets. I would guess in my case it's the camera, but will try other lenses later when I have time.

Well, at least I've learned how to adjust AF.

Lynn876 · Jul 14, 2017

Oh good, I was feeling bad about hijacking this thread. Depending on how you shoot you might want to check out AF-c vs AF-s and how many focal points you use as well. I found AF-A doesn't work well for me. Or I think it doesn't- there were a lot of variables in my case. & I thought AF-C didn't work for me, but now I think it was the focus.

Lynn876 · Jul 14, 2017

Satyaa said:
Thanks for pointing out your observations. I hope that they help me.

I have also been noticing more than expected noise from my D7200. I have high ISO NR turned on, expecting that it only affects when the ISO is high. I will turn it OFF now.

I think that both DxO and NX-D will do a better job than the camera does.

Thanks.

Satyaa · Jul 14, 2017

Well, the OP hasn't responded after the first post. So, we might as well use it for something useful

I did realize after my FZ2500 experience, that AF-C is generally not as good as AF-S. So, I am paying attention to it on my D7200. Also, the center point AF is better than the others! It's not a big deal for me though.

My camera also had severe AF issues. I sent it to Nikon for warranty repair. It came fully tuned and perfect. It now works well with all my lenses (including Sigma and Tamron).

I did not notice that difference with my D7100 earlier.

Satyaa · Jul 14, 2017

Yes, I did have AF issues but Nikon took care of it under warranty.

Mystery member · Jul 14, 2017

Lynn876 said:
Oh good, I was feeling bad about hijacking this thread. Depending on how you shoot you might want to check out AF-c vs AF-s and how many focal points you use as well. I found AF-A doesn't work well for me. Or I think it doesn't- there were a lot of variables in my case. & I thought AF-C didn't work for me, but now I think it was the focus.

I use AF-C almost exclusively, either with Nikon or Sony. Only time I use AF-S is because my Sony defaults to AF-S when in self-timer mode. The logic is that unless the camera is on a tripod, there will be some movement, so "continuous" AF is called for. AF-A is hardly ever used.

There's a few bells and whistles with Nikon AF, and it takes a while to go through all the possibilities.

For landscape and general I use AF-C with auto area, and subject selection is usually satisfactory. Sometimes 3D is more effective, and moving the single focus point is another ploy for an off-set subject.

For sports, AF-C with back-button focus is an effective method if you want to keep moving subjects in focus and take your shots at opportune times.

André BARELIER · Jul 15, 2017

Lynn876 said:
André BARELIER said:

Lynn876 said:

Thanks Wry, yes I get a little of that blur at ss 1200 on the animals legs. But I don't get the sharpness I want as often. I've found some blur at 1600 as well.

Basically, this was my first time really using this camera and I wanted to push it in low-ish light to see what it did. Will do the same this weekend with the NR off and will have an opportunity to shoot night time as well. I don't have time with an 8 second or less ride to change things much, so I generally go for a little underexposure in low light and correct it in software. At 1/800 speed (night time) I'm not usually happy with most of the images.

With the D7000 I wasn't too happy with the IQ higher than 400 at the most. This is the reason I got a D72000. I hope the D7200 has better IQ in low light. & I'm here because I'm curious about the D7500. & now I'm wondering if the low light capability on any of these cameras is because of noise filters.

Click to expand...

Hi Lynn,

Looking at the 100% crops you posted, it seems to me that some NR is at work in these images.

Did you use jpeg or raw? Since you don't mention any conversion software, I suppose you used jpeg.

If you have time to process your pictures from raw, DxO, NX-D or ACR will do a better job at removing noise while keeping détails than the in-camera converter.

Also, have a look at the default picture control settings. I always use a "neutral" picture control, which gives slightly soft images, that need some sharpening in PP. That might explain the softness you're noting.

One last thing, did you check the AF fine tune setting? If the previous owner used the same lens as you, maybe he had recorded some correction, which could apply to your own lens. This is just speculation: I don't know if the AF fine tune engine stores only the type of the lens or its serial number. In the last case, my remark is irrelevant.

Just my 2cts...

Click to expand...

Lynn876 · Jul 15, 2017

I did realize after my FZ2500 experience, that AF-C is generally not as good as AF-S.

What are you shooting?

Lynn876 · Jul 15, 2017

Here's a full sized image in really bad light with subject far away, ss 800 and 3200 iso, Nikon 70-200mm 2.8 lens. Just upped the exposure almost a quarter of a step- no other adjustments. Noise gets unbearable on the face after that. I got there late tonight and they had it set up differently than last year, so couldn't get closer without bothering the participants and staff.

Oh well, at least it looks like my camera's focus is OK.

Who has a challenging light condition photo taken with a D7500 with noise reduction off? I think that would be the real comparison... for me anyway.

EDIT: & CRAP. I'll have to post a 100% crop later. I'm tired and going to sleep...

Goodnight, I may or may not have time to respond for a couple days.

Satyaa · Jul 15, 2017

Lynn876 said:
I did realize after my FZ2500 experience, that AF-C is generally not as good as AF-S.

What are you shooting?

Mostly landscapes. Sometimes moving subjects but not fast-paced.

I read on the Panasonic forum where people tried/tested different things with the FZ2500. They pointed out that the sharpness is better when using AF-S than with AF-C. I tried it out. It does make a difference in some of the photos (I would say about a third). The photos taken with AF-S are slightly better when you pixel peep.

Lynn876 · Jul 16, 2017

Interesting, thanks. I just tried AF-C this weekend and am finding after tuning my focus that is seems to work for me now. This weekend I shot a rodeo- very fast action. I'll remember to use AF-S for landscapes.

Upgrade to D7500 or D7200

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