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Calculate weight of needed sandbags
- Thread starter Amit71
- Start date
D
Don89
Guest
No. If the stand falls over you may need a smaller modifier. Not more sand. Also, you can get tent stakes and cord/rope. Directly down under the stand. That's usually better and weighs nothing.
ScratchDisk
Senior Member
+1 to that.
I tried to find guidelines for stand base sand-bagging and concluded that there were none! (Counter-weighting a boom is entirely separate.) The following is not a recommendation, it's simply what I do. Further, it only applies to high quality stands & further still, only to those of 45 to 36 degree leg to floor angle style (or C-stands). The force from the weights must be applied 'fairly' and downwards from just above the apex of the stand's tripod base. If all those conditions are met, I may sandbag to 2.5 X the stand's rated capacity.
Bungy cording to the ground is very effective - again, straight down, 'fairly', from just above the stand's tripod base apex. I bungy to a ground screw intended to support large clothes drying rack arrays. It is far bigger than screw in tent 'pegs'. It's easy to measure what degree of bungy extension corresponds to less than 2.5 X the stand's rated capacity. (The capacity refers to what may safely be attached to the stand's uppermost fitting at full extension, assuming all forces are 'in column'.)
I tried to find guidelines for stand base sand-bagging and concluded that there were none! (Counter-weighting a boom is entirely separate.) The following is not a recommendation, it's simply what I do. Further, it only applies to high quality stands & further still, only to those of 45 to 36 degree leg to floor angle style (or C-stands). The force from the weights must be applied 'fairly' and downwards from just above the apex of the stand's tripod base. If all those conditions are met, I may sandbag to 2.5 X the stand's rated capacity.
Bungy cording to the ground is very effective - again, straight down, 'fairly', from just above the stand's tripod base apex. I bungy to a ground screw intended to support large clothes drying rack arrays. It is far bigger than screw in tent 'pegs'. It's easy to measure what degree of bungy extension corresponds to less than 2.5 X the stand's rated capacity. (The capacity refers to what may safely be attached to the stand's uppermost fitting at full extension, assuming all forces are 'in column'.)
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tdwesbo
Senior Member
More
if you're shooting outside with modifiers on stands, take as much weight as you can carry. Nobody ever used too many sandbags
if you're shooting outside with modifiers on stands, take as much weight as you can carry. Nobody ever used too many sandbags
Sailor Blue
Forum Pro
Bungee cords that are tight want to pull over the stand until you get all three of them attached.
Tent stakes plus lanyards with guyline tensioners are much simpler to use, and you don't have to fight them.
eBay - 10pcs Camping Tent Accessories Rope Guyline Tensioner Rope 2 Holes Adjuster
Set up the stand, drive in the tent pegs, attach the lanyards to the stand and pegs, adjust the lanyard lengths so they are just tight, add the flash and diffuser. Simple, easy, and cheap.
Tent stakes plus lanyards with guyline tensioners are much simpler to use, and you don't have to fight them.
eBay - 10pcs Camping Tent Accessories Rope Guyline Tensioner Rope 2 Holes Adjuster
Set up the stand, drive in the tent pegs, attach the lanyards to the stand and pegs, adjust the lanyard lengths so they are just tight, add the flash and diffuser. Simple, easy, and cheap.
D
Don89
Guest
One can be used if it leads straight down under the stand as opposed to using 3 at an angle
ScratchDisk
Senior Member
Personally, I've only ever had one stand break on me. It failed through metal fatigue at an Alu riser clamp - and it wasn't even loaded at the time.
I've seen credible stories of second tier Alu stands failing when sandbagged. The sandbagged Alu tripod base was apparently fine but one of the risers simply kinked, cracked & failed with a gust of wind.
I've seen credible stories of second tier Alu stands failing when sandbagged. The sandbagged Alu tripod base was apparently fine but one of the risers simply kinked, cracked & failed with a gust of wind.
Craig Wassel Photography
Member
Wind obviously is the enemy here, and if it is strong enough you reach the point where the weakest point in the light rig will suffer. I am not saying I have the best answer here, just putting these here for consideration:
If you are going to the effort of hauling or dealing with sandbags, you may want to consider going with a steel stand and make the greater weight of that give you some help. I use Kupo steel stands. The challenge then becomes, "how to you move that?" I roll them and the rest of my gear in a Gorilla cart. Then, though, you need something big enough to take your cart. I have a minivan. This will not suit everyone or every shooting style or assignment. I'm just putting it out there.
If you sandbag anything to the point where wind won't move it, here are other points of failure I have seen or experienced:
- Lighter duty stands bend, buckle, and fail (already mentioned I know)
- Where the speedring mounts to your light can get so much wind pressure that your light mount gets bent and damaged. I've had it happen even with strong Bowens S mount. The only mount I can think of that would not be susceptible to this is Profoto. Your mod can drop when this happens, which can hit your flashtube.
- With enough wind pressure, the adapter ring for your speedring gets bent. I've had this happen with Balcar mount. Again, your mod can drop when this happens, which can hit your flashtube.
- Another approach is to position the face of the mod away from the wind, but I've also experienced winds that starts to collapse the mod inward, which damaged or broke the spines. Damage to rings and mount is still possible, too.
- Staking: I have used this at times, and if the wind is not too strong, it works. it allows you to attach near the top of the stand, which take pressure off of it. Again, though, if the wind is strong enough the stakes will just pull out of the ground. After all, wind and sails can move multi-ton ships. And, again, if the staking is strong enough and so is the wind, something else will have to bear the wind pressure and might fail, like the mod or the rings or the mount.
As was also mentioned above, using a smaller mod can be the thing to do (or be forced into), and if the wind is strong enough that can mean being pushed all the way down to a small hard reflector or bare speedlights. Oh, how I hate the wind.
So my overall point is if the wind is strong enough and you take any approach to protect the stand from going over, something else will give and break.
If you are going to roll the dice in stronger winds, though, I would say take the approach where the thing that is most likely to get damaged is the cheapest and most replaceable - like inexpensive umbrellas that go into the light via the umbrella shaft holder.
--
Craig
--
https://www.craigwasselphotoart.com
--
NPS Member • Flashpoint Xplor600 monolights • Bowens Gemini 750r mononlight • Paul C. Buff Einstein e640 monolights • Bowens softboxes and umbrellas • Custom Scrims; 5' x 8' • Fotodiox octas and modifiers • Hoodman loupe • Kupo light stands, booms, grips, and drop pins • Lastolite Triflectors • Photek Softlighter brollies • Photogenic reflectors and grids • Phottix strip boxes and modifiers • Roscolux gels • Sekonic light meter • Visico octaboxes • Westcott Eyelighter
If you are going to the effort of hauling or dealing with sandbags, you may want to consider going with a steel stand and make the greater weight of that give you some help. I use Kupo steel stands. The challenge then becomes, "how to you move that?" I roll them and the rest of my gear in a Gorilla cart. Then, though, you need something big enough to take your cart. I have a minivan. This will not suit everyone or every shooting style or assignment. I'm just putting it out there.
If you sandbag anything to the point where wind won't move it, here are other points of failure I have seen or experienced:
- Lighter duty stands bend, buckle, and fail (already mentioned I know)
- Where the speedring mounts to your light can get so much wind pressure that your light mount gets bent and damaged. I've had it happen even with strong Bowens S mount. The only mount I can think of that would not be susceptible to this is Profoto. Your mod can drop when this happens, which can hit your flashtube.
- With enough wind pressure, the adapter ring for your speedring gets bent. I've had this happen with Balcar mount. Again, your mod can drop when this happens, which can hit your flashtube.
- Another approach is to position the face of the mod away from the wind, but I've also experienced winds that starts to collapse the mod inward, which damaged or broke the spines. Damage to rings and mount is still possible, too.
- Staking: I have used this at times, and if the wind is not too strong, it works. it allows you to attach near the top of the stand, which take pressure off of it. Again, though, if the wind is strong enough the stakes will just pull out of the ground. After all, wind and sails can move multi-ton ships. And, again, if the staking is strong enough and so is the wind, something else will have to bear the wind pressure and might fail, like the mod or the rings or the mount.
As was also mentioned above, using a smaller mod can be the thing to do (or be forced into), and if the wind is strong enough that can mean being pushed all the way down to a small hard reflector or bare speedlights. Oh, how I hate the wind.
So my overall point is if the wind is strong enough and you take any approach to protect the stand from going over, something else will give and break.
If you are going to roll the dice in stronger winds, though, I would say take the approach where the thing that is most likely to get damaged is the cheapest and most replaceable - like inexpensive umbrellas that go into the light via the umbrella shaft holder.
--
Craig
--
https://www.craigwasselphotoart.com
--
NPS Member • Flashpoint Xplor600 monolights • Bowens Gemini 750r mononlight • Paul C. Buff Einstein e640 monolights • Bowens softboxes and umbrellas • Custom Scrims; 5' x 8' • Fotodiox octas and modifiers • Hoodman loupe • Kupo light stands, booms, grips, and drop pins • Lastolite Triflectors • Photek Softlighter brollies • Photogenic reflectors and grids • Phottix strip boxes and modifiers • Roscolux gels • Sekonic light meter • Visico octaboxes • Westcott Eyelighter
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D
Don89
Guest
Well written.
When I do shoots out on ocean beaches there's always a breeze or greater. I simple use any of a number of Elinchrom Metal dishes. From a standard reflector, square dish, 17" and 27" beauty dishes and the superb Maxi-lite (aka Fireball). Wind won't impact the shoot and since I'm on the move, sand bags. 6x6 ... foot diffusers require help obviously.
Ive not used any kind of softbox outdoors for a while. Way too much trouble. The metal dishes do not need assembly. They work just fine for my needs. I am eyeing the larger Mola dishes.
Here's a test shoot Ive posted here previously. It was a very windy day. I used a standard Elinchrom 8" reflector. Stiff wind and gusts. A softbox would have done damage to anything you've listed for sure.
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Craig Wassel Photography
Member
Thank Don89
I use octas quite a bit outside, from 46" to 70". I use Bowens QuickRings, and I modify my octas so the rods just stay in them all the time, and fall out in proper order and position when the octa is unrolled. This makes them much faster to set up, but it's never as fast as a metal dish of course.
That said, I did an engagement session a few weeks ago on a Chicago beach/Lake Michigan shoreline. Wind - O - Plenty, so just hard reflectors just as you show below. Someone might say, "but I still want the big mod, soft light look". The only way I know of to do that in strong wind without jeopardizing lights is with assistants and large fabric scrims. Put the monolight(s) behind them bare or nearly bare, and try to light the whole panel. Takes a lot of power, though. At least fabric scrims are almost impossible to destroy. Assistants might get pulled into the water or over a cliff wall, though :-(
Craig
--
https://www.craigwasselphotoart.com
--
NPS Member • Flashpoint Xplor600 monolights • Bowens Gemini 750r mononlight • Paul C. Buff Einstein e640 monolights • Bowens softboxes and umbrellas • Custom Scrims; 5' x 8' • Fotodiox octas and modifiers • Hoodman loupe • Kupo light stands, booms, grips, and drop pins • Lastolite Triflectors • Photek Softlighter brollies • Photogenic reflectors and grids • Phottix strip boxes and modifiers • Roscolux gels • Sekonic light meter • Visico octaboxes • Westcott Eyelighter
I use octas quite a bit outside, from 46" to 70". I use Bowens QuickRings, and I modify my octas so the rods just stay in them all the time, and fall out in proper order and position when the octa is unrolled. This makes them much faster to set up, but it's never as fast as a metal dish of course.
That said, I did an engagement session a few weeks ago on a Chicago beach/Lake Michigan shoreline. Wind - O - Plenty, so just hard reflectors just as you show below. Someone might say, "but I still want the big mod, soft light look". The only way I know of to do that in strong wind without jeopardizing lights is with assistants and large fabric scrims. Put the monolight(s) behind them bare or nearly bare, and try to light the whole panel. Takes a lot of power, though. At least fabric scrims are almost impossible to destroy. Assistants might get pulled into the water or over a cliff wall, though :-(
--
Well written.
When I do shoots out on ocean beaches there's always a breeze or greater. I simple use any of a number of Elinchrom Metal dishes. From a standard reflector, square dish, 17" and 27" beauty dishes and the superb Maxi-lite (aka Fireball). Wind won't impact the shoot and since I'm on the move, sand bags. 6x6 ... foot diffusers require help obviously.
Ive not used any kind of softbox outdoors for a while. Way too much trouble. The metal dishes do not need assembly. They work just fine for my needs. I am eyeing the larger Mola dishes.
Here's a test shoot Ive posted here previously. It was a very windy day. I used a standard Elinchrom 8" reflector. Stiff wind and gusts. A softbox would have done damage to anything you've listed for sure.
Craig
--
https://www.craigwasselphotoart.com
--
NPS Member • Flashpoint Xplor600 monolights • Bowens Gemini 750r mononlight • Paul C. Buff Einstein e640 monolights • Bowens softboxes and umbrellas • Custom Scrims; 5' x 8' • Fotodiox octas and modifiers • Hoodman loupe • Kupo light stands, booms, grips, and drop pins • Lastolite Triflectors • Photek Softlighter brollies • Photogenic reflectors and grids • Phottix strip boxes and modifiers • Roscolux gels • Sekonic light meter • Visico octaboxes • Westcott Eyelighter
Last edited:
Sailor Blue
Forum Pro
If you do it that way then bungee cords should work fine, and it is simpler than a three point stability system.
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