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GF 110 reason enough to switch to GFX?

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Iflare

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Hi

Thinking about the GFX I wonder if the GF110 would be reason enough to swtch systems.

I currently use a Leica M9P with 35lux ASPH preFLE, 50lux ASPH, 75cronAPO, 90cronpreAPO. I also use the Xpro2 sometimes along with the 23/1.4, 35/2, 56/1.2 and 18-55 for AF.

Main photographic interest is portraiture (natural light - rarely flash, sometimes reflector). Family and travel too.

I am a father of 1y old twin boys and I find myself missing more shots with the Leica M than before. Sure I get the shot but too many times it is not sharp enough or the one that is sharp is taken a second too late. I guess more practice would help but I am quite sure it will not help enough in my case. The Fuji is the next best thing to the Leica experience AND autofocus, but DOF wide open is still more than my 1.4 FF lenses and the lenses do not have the same character.

Since I tend to use the Leica less ofter for the reasons mentioned, I was thinking about keeping only the M9P+50 lux (my prefered combo which I would maybe miss most) and XPRO2+23/1.4 and 35/2 (for low weight and travel) and getting a Canon 5DMkIV+35L,50L,85L to have a good AF and low DOF option. For portraiture I think I prefer Canon to Nikon for skintones...but didn't use any in the last years (after selling my MkI)

I also tested the GFX and 63/2.8 and 23-64/4 and really like the rendering but (F2.8 and) F4 are limiting to me.

Now with the F2 110mm lens becoming available and looking at the photographs, I am in doubt again.

So what would you advise: go for the GFX+110? Will it focus fast enough (I will not do sports but I will cover kids, also non-posed photography). And what would be the best setup: 63+110 or 23-64 + 110 or 45+110. Getting the GFX would mean selling the Leica (to keep the budget within limits). I would probably keep the Xpro2 + 23/14 and 35/2 (nice and compact setup).

Thank you!

Peter
 
I don't think AF performance is the reason why people would choose MF.

Switching to Canon seems more practical given your AF needs.
 
Iflare said:
Hi

Thinking about the GFX I wonder if the GF110 would be reason enough to swtch systems.

I currently use a Leica M9P with 35lux ASPH preFLE, 50lux ASPH, 75cronAPO, 90cronpreAPO. I also use the Xpro2 sometimes along with the 23/1.4, 35/2, 56/1.2
Click to expand...
That lens is a 85mm f1.8 FF equivalent.
Iflare said:
and 18-55 for AF.

Main photographic interest is portraiture (natural light - rarely flash, sometimes reflector). Family and travel too.

I am a father of 1y old twin boys and I find myself missing more shots with the Leica M than before. Sure I get the shot but too many times it is not sharp enough or the one that is sharp is taken a second too late. I guess more practice would help but I am quite sure it will not help enough in my case. The Fuji is the next best thing to the Leica experience AND autofocus, but DOF wide open is still more than my 1.4 FF lenses
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That is true. So that is a big deal?
Iflare said:
and the lenses do not have the same character.
Click to expand...
Probably true.
Iflare said:
Since I tend to use the Leica less ofter for the reasons mentioned, I was thinking about keeping only the M9P+50 lux (my prefered combo which I would maybe miss most) and XPRO2+23/1.4 and 35/2 (for low weight and travel) and getting a Canon 5DMkIV+35L,50L,85L to have a good AF and low DOF option.
Click to expand...
So that is a big part of what you are looking for, very shallow DOF. But what about focal length?
Iflare said:
For portraiture I think I prefer Canon to Nikon for skintones...but didn't use any in the last years (after selling my MkI)

I also tested the GFX and 63/2.8 and 23-64/4 and really like the rendering but (F2.8 and) F4 are limiting to me.

Now with the F2 110mm lens becoming available and looking at the photographs, I am in doubt again.
Click to expand...
That lens is a 85mm f1.56 FF equivalent. Still a long way from f1.2. Do you think it will make the difference between the Fuji and this?
Iflare said:
So what would you advise: go for the GFX+110? Will it focus fast enough
Click to expand...

The AF speed of the Canon 85mm f1.2 is said to be slow. But it beats that Fuji.

Iflare said:
(I will not do sports but I will cover kids, also non-posed photography). And what would be the best setup: 63+110 or 23-64 + 110 or 45+110. Getting the GFX would mean selling the Leica (to keep the budget within limits). I would probably keep the Xpro2 + 23/14 and 35/2 (nice and compact setup).

Thank you!

Peter
Click to expand...
 
Iflare said:
Hi

Thinking about the GFX I wonder if the GF110 would be reason enough to swtch systems.

I currently use a Leica M9P with 35lux ASPH preFLE, 50lux ASPH, 75cronAPO, 90cronpreAPO. I also use the Xpro2 sometimes along with the 23/1.4, 35/2, 56/1.2 and 18-55 for AF.

Main photographic interest is portraiture (natural light - rarely flash, sometimes reflector). Family and travel too.

I am a father of 1y old twin boys and I find myself missing more shots with the Leica M than before. Sure I get the shot but too many times it is not sharp enough or the one that is sharp is taken a second too late. I guess more practice would help but I am quite sure it will not help enough in my case. The Fuji is the next best thing to the Leica experience AND autofocus, but DOF wide open is still more than my 1.4 FF lenses and the lenses do not have the same character.

Since I tend to use the Leica less ofter for the reasons mentioned, I was thinking about keeping only the M9P+50 lux (my prefered combo which I would maybe miss most) and XPRO2+23/1.4 and 35/2 (for low weight and travel) and getting a Canon 5DMkIV+35L,50L,85L to have a good AF and low DOF option. For portraiture I think I prefer Canon to Nikon for skintones...but didn't use any in the last years (after selling my MkI)

I also tested the GFX and 63/2.8 and 23-64/4 and really like the rendering but (F2.8 and) F4 are limiting to me.
Click to expand...
Limiting in what way? Low light, DoF or both?
Iflare said:
Now with the F2 110mm lens becoming available and looking at the photographs, I am in doubt again.
Click to expand...
What pictures? Taken with the GF 110 or taken of the GF 110?
Iflare said:
So what would you advise: go for the GFX+110? Will it focus fast enough (I will not do sports but I will cover kids, also non-posed photography).
Click to expand...
I believe the focus speed will be approx. the same as the GF 63mm. Bear in mind, I probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference if there were a speed advantage to the GF 110 as action shooting isn't my forte. I think the bigger problem is the 3 fps rate for chasing kids around and probably a lot candids too. You've had a chance to shoot with the system so you probably have a feel for this already. It's hard to believe that the AF system would not be able to keep up with 3 fps. :)
Iflare said:
And what would be the best setup: 63+110 or 23-64 + 110 or 45+110. Getting the GFX would mean selling the Leica (to keep the budget within limits). I would probably keep the Xpro2 + 23/14 and 35/2 (nice and compact setup).
Click to expand...
My interest is mainly in landscape so take that into account but when I saw that the 32-64's mtf @ 64mm is similar to the 63mm 's mtf, I decided to go with the zoom instead of the 63. I've preordered the 23mm. I do not need wide apertures. In your situation, where you do, the 63 & 110 looks good. If AF speed is as critical as your post suggests, it might behoove you to rent the GF 110 when it is released.

I am maintaining my FF kit for lenses like the 11-24 & 100-400. It will be interesting to see how far outside of the current focal range Fuji will venture in this format.
Iflare said:
Thank you!

Peter
Click to expand...
 
i own the GFX and love it but i would never get it for the kind of pictures you are looking for.....

also would not get the canon because you can get about 2 more stops of DR from most other cameras plus (especially) the 85 is excruciatingly slow and also not made for a 50mpix sensor.....

i would look at sony for the simple reason that the 85GM is a pretty amazing lens with renders better then any 85 i have ever seen....sharp, detail but still a certain analog stillness, creamy, creamy skin rendering, pretty much no CA......and you can use all your leica glass on it if you want.....

and btw: the 24-70 GM is the first zoom i would take over most primes for the same reasons, detail and just gorgeous rendering.....

fuji XT2.....i know, i know...not full frame.....who cares....super compact, incredible lenses, great AF, pretty amazing package.....and really fun to shoot with.....and still plenty of detail and resolution for any application....

IMO the fuji is also the only camera that comes close to providing the tactile shooting satisfaction the leica does....the sony might provide the best IQ but is probably not as much fun to pick up and shoot with.....
 
Paul said:
also would not get the canon because you can get about 2 more stops of DR from most other cameras plus (especially) the 85 is excruciatingly slow and also not made for a 50mpix sensor.....
Click to expand...
Anyone so incompetent that two stops of DR - lets say 9 versus 7- makes the difference, should probably switch to sculpture anyway.

That's like overcooking a cake by hours, then expecting to fix it with frosting. How pathetic.
 
DenWil said:
Paul said:
also would not get the canon because you can get about 2 more stops of DR from most other cameras plus (especially) the 85 is excruciatingly slow and also not made for a 50mpix sensor.....
Click to expand...
Anyone so incompetent that two stops of DR - lets say 9 versus 7- makes the difference, should probably switch to sculpture anyway.

That's like overcooking a cake by hours, then expecting to fix it with frosting. How pathetic.
Click to expand...
 
Paul said:
DenWil said:
Paul said:
also would not get the canon because you can get about 2 more stops of DR from most other cameras plus (especially) the 85 is excruciatingly slow and also not made for a 50mpix sensor.....
Click to expand...
Anyone so incompetent that two stops of DR - lets say 9 versus 7- makes the difference, should probably switch to sculpture anyway.

That's like overcooking a cake by hours, then expecting to fix it with frosting. How pathetic.

--
dw
denniswilliams.net
Click to expand...
in this case the difference would be a lot less, 9 to 7 stops would be pretty big....i am also not sure what either number has to do with either one of these cameras?
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It does not matter, his point is clear and correct. Normal DR tonal curves are about 7 to maybe 8 stops of DR. The Canon 5D mk IV (the camera in question) has a huge overhead: almost 14 stops according to DXO and about 11 stops in bclaff's more sensible photographic dynanamic range calculations (the MF Fuji 1 stop more).

So a normal tonal curve has about 7 stops, the Canon almost double that. Silly amounts of DR which only shadow pulling nonsense HDR low contrast lovers think is a thing to go for?
Paul said:
but then i also don't get your cake story, so i guess we are just not on the same page at all...

IMO DR along with color depth
Click to expand...
Show me in an image an issue with color depth with any camera. I am pretty sure you just saw those number on DXO yet have no examples of lack of "color depth".
Paul said:
are more important then mpix in the way the final image is rendered....as well as lenses of course and the way they render the incoming light....

the GFX has pretty much everything but it is much easier to miss a shot then with (for example) A7RII or XT2....while either one of these should in most cases come pretty close in terms of final output....
Click to expand...
 
Hi Paul, nice portfolio. Of course beautiful subjects help a lot. :)
Paul said:
i own the GFX and love it but i would never get it for the kind of pictures you are looking for.....

also would not get the canon because you can get about 2 more stops of DR from most other cameras plus (especially) the 85 is excruciatingly slow and also not made for a 50mpix sensor.....
Click to expand...
According to Bill Claff's PDR results:

Hassy X1D = 11.98 stops
Fuji GFX = 11.9 stops
Sony A7r II = 11.42 stops
EOS 5D IV = 10.83 stops
EOS 5DsR = 9.77 stops

The only true laggard among this bunch is the 5DsR and I have no issues with DR 90% of the time. Why? Two reasons: I carry multiple cameras with different capabilities and during most of the day, I do not face challenging DR issues.

Paul said:
i would look at sony for the simple reason that the 85GM is a pretty amazing lens with renders better then any 85 i have ever seen....sharp, detail but still a certain analog stillness, creamy, creamy skin rendering, pretty much no CA......and you can use all your leica glass on it if you want.....
Click to expand...
I've heard this about the 85 GM so I would be interested to know why you sold your Sony kit to come to Fuji MF. I read one of your posts stating you were selling your entire Sony kit. Perhaps you decided not to do this at least not entirely.
Paul said:
and btw: the 24-70 GM is the first zoom i would take over most primes for the same reasons, detail and just gorgeous rendering.....
Click to expand...
Paul said:
fuji XT2.....i know, i know...not full frame.....who cares....super compact, incredible lenses, great AF, pretty amazing package.....and really fun to shoot with.....and still plenty of detail and resolution for any application....

IMO the fuji is also the only camera that comes close to providing the tactile shooting satisfaction the leica does....the sony might provide the best IQ but is probably not as much fun to pick up and shoot with.....
Click to expand...
 
I don't think numbers tell the whole story.....and to me the gfx is a step up from the A7RII but it does not replace it in terms of speed and handling....
 
Paul said:
I don't think numbers tell the whole story.....and to me the gfx is a step up from the A7RII but it does not replace it in terms of speed and handling....
Click to expand...
I agree on all accounts plus some (although I substitute a 5DsR for the A7r II). This is why I have not fully divested myself of FF equipment and why I recommend those considering MF for the first time to retain their FF cameras at least initially. Another area where Fuji and some other MF models can't compete with FF at that moment are lenses. Outside of the equivalent lenses, I don't see Fuji/Hasselblad/Pentax releasing equivalent zooms for their 44x33 systems like an 11-24mm, 16-35mm, 70-200mm or 100-400. I don't see a TS lens either although Fuji seems like a maverick of sorts and it might happen if demand is there.

I've run with two cameras mounted with different focal lengths and ready to shoot for the majority of my time with DSLR. At some point, I made one of those cameras another brand in order to extend overall capabilities. I have been switching brands on that half of my kit ever since I.e. Nikon>Pentax>Fuji. I rented the A7r II and Zeiss Batis 25mm and while the Batis is the real deal, I could not work with the Sony due to its smaller size otherwise, Sony probably would have been added to the aforementioned list. Point is, if one is used to a FF kit and a wide assortment of lenses, an MF kit with native lenses is generally going to feel limited.

--
Once you've done fifty, everything else is iffy.
 
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medium format has never had the range and flexibility in terms of zoom lenses, ultra wide or super teles....never will....and why? if you need either one, there are several systems available with plenty of options....

there are a couple of very good TS options for the GFX....the adapter for the canon T/S lenses, and all the 4x5 adapters.....

the reason i am posting here is really to help people be realistic about cameras like the GFX....as great as it is and as much as i love it, it is definitely not for everybody and every situation....i shoot almost exclusively in controlled situations, and i control and set up these situations....outside that bubble any DSLR system really makes much more sense....and nowadays without having to look at the final product and wish one had used a camera with more this or that....get the shot is much more important....and enjoy using the gear you are getting the shot with....
 
uMad said:
brightcolours said:
Iflare said:
Hi

Thinking about the GFX I wonder if the GF110 would be reason enough to swtch systems.

I currently use a Leica M9P with 35lux ASPH preFLE, 50lux ASPH, 75cronAPO, 90cronpreAPO. I also use the Xpro2 sometimes along with the 23/1.4, 35/2, 56/1.2
Click to expand...
That lens is a 85mm f1.8 FF equivalent.
Click to expand...
Your math bad, s you should feel bad!
Click to expand...
Yeah because 56mm x 1.5 != ~85mm, right?

Or because f1.2 x 1.5 != f1.8, right?
 
brightcolours said:
uMad said:
brightcolours said:
Iflare said:
Hi

Thinking about the GFX I wonder if the GF110 would be reason enough to swtch systems.

I currently use a Leica M9P with 35lux ASPH preFLE, 50lux ASPH, 75cronAPO, 90cronpreAPO. I also use the Xpro2 sometimes along with the 23/1.4, 35/2, 56/1.2
Click to expand...
That lens is a 85mm f1.8 FF equivalent.
Click to expand...
Your math bad, s you should feel bad!
Click to expand...
Yeah because 56mm x 1.5 != ~85mm, right?

Or because f1.2 x 1.5 != f1.8, right?
Click to expand...
k, thought you were talking about the 110mm
 
uMad said:
brightcolours said:
uMad said:
brightcolours said:
Iflare said:
Hi

Thinking about the GFX I wonder if the GF110 would be reason enough to swtch systems.

I currently use a Leica M9P with 35lux ASPH preFLE, 50lux ASPH, 75cronAPO, 90cronpreAPO. I also use the Xpro2 sometimes along with the 23/1.4, 35/2, 56/1.2
Click to expand...
That lens is a 85mm f1.8 FF equivalent.
Click to expand...
Your math bad, s you should feel bad!
Click to expand...
Yeah because 56mm x 1.5 != ~85mm, right?

Or because f1.2 x 1.5 != f1.8, right?
Click to expand...
k, thought you were talking about the 110mm
Click to expand...
That is why I wrote directly after the 56mm f1.2. Because I was talking about the 110mm. :-P:-D
 
brightcolours said:
So that is a big part of what you are looking for, very shallow DOF. But what about focal length?
brightcolours said:
For portraiture I think I prefer Canon to Nikon for skintones...but didn't use any in the last years (after selling my MkI)

I also tested the GFX and 63/2.8 and 23-64/4 and really like the rendering but (F2.8 and) F4 are limiting to me.

Now with the F2 110mm lens becoming available and looking at the photographs, I am in doubt again.
Click to expand...
That lens is a 85mm f1.56 FF equivalent. Still a long way from f1.2. Do you think it will make the difference between the Fuji and this?
brightcolours said:
So what would you advise: go for the GFX+110? Will it focus fast enough
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Focal length between 70 and 85 seems fine for me. I prefer a prime to a zoom for several reasons.

I know the 110 will not equal the 85L for DOF but on FF F/1.6 is probably enough for my needs. It is merely the look and feeling of separation the 110 mm on MF that appeals to me.

Although I like the skin tones with the Canon the color rendering I saw with the Fuji GFX (and even with my Xpro2) looks very fine. I know that those can be tweaked in PP but still that takes a significant amount of time behind the computer. That is also the main reason why I did get the XPro2 in stead of a A7 series.

AF speed with the 110 mm seems quite fast to me in the youtube video.However would be nice to have some additional user feedback in situations like portraiture and focusing on an eye and trough the viewfinder.
 
LightBug said:
I don't think AF performance is the reason why people would choose MF.

Switching to Canon seems more practical given your AF needs.
Click to expand...
I tested the GFX with the 63 mm for an hour or so. I guess the AF is probably all right for photographing children unless they are really running around. As said I would also keep the Xpro2 and with the 35/2 I feel it's fine for some children action pictures.

It should be quicker than my manual focus of the M I think.
 
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