Sony big big mistake - no troll -

-No troll-

I just hope that Sony monitors the forum and maybe one day I will get my dream camera. The market is not only made of pixel hunters.

I don't need to persuade myself or others that my purchase is/was/will be the best move. I made both good and bad choices in the past.

By the way I like very much both the Olympus & Sony forums I found the average pic posted there to be of higher quality than on the other forums

TurboTed said:

Frank C. said:

Ulysses said:

At least in good light, I think we'll see the F828 perform quite
well in comparison to a camera with a qualitatively better set of
of pixels. Good light is a great equalizer for the small sensor.

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Unfortunately shadows exist where good light exists also and the
300D will excel here revealing very clean pixels with great dynamic
range.... the F828 with its teenie sensor will....well..... we'll
see

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Frank,

Haven't you read how Sony has designed the CCD to mimic the human
eye's own response to photons thus producing a linear correlation
between shadow noise and our perception of shadows. Large CMOS
sensors can't even come close to matching this aspect of
visualization.

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come again now.....???? I've lost you or I need my brain to
get re-activated. Read what? and where?

TurboTed said:

TurboTed said:

TurboTed said:

But it's when you get into poor lighting that things start to get
dicey.

Frank C. said:

yep it's that 'better' pixels .vs. 'more' pixels thingy again.
Let's just say 6M better pixels are more than 8M pixels...
hehe

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--

Ulysses

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--
TurboTed

(It's easier just being insane than acting insane)

Click to expand...

Yann, definitely has a good point. One that's been brought up time and again.

Personally, I was looking for enough sensor improvements so that Sony could provide a decent ISO1600 (maybe like the 717's ISO800, today).

After hearing that they were packing 8mpxls into the same size sensor, I knew it wasn't meant to be. They might make some improvement in the noise area (personally I think it will be a feather in their cap, if they can equal the V1's noise level @ 8mpxls). But, there won't be an ISO1600 and ISO800 will likely still be pretty much un-useable, except in extreme cases (as in, no other way to get the shot).

Maybe 4, or 5 years down the road, technology will allow a puny sensor to have a signal to noise ratio, similar to today's APS sensors. It's just not there today :-(

If you need a clean high ISO. Go for the 10D, or 300D. Many already have, or will.

Steve

NordicYann said:

-No troll-

I just hope that Sony monitors the forum and maybe one day I will
get my dream camera. The market is not only made of pixel hunters.

I don't need to persuade myself or others that my purchase
is/was/will be the best move. I made both good and bad choices in
the past.

By the way I like very much both the Olympus & Sony forums I found
the average pic posted there to be of higher quality than on the
other forums

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/slo2k
'The question is not what you look at, but what you see' - Thoreau

David A Melges said:

David A Melges said:

As far I am concerned Sony got it right with the CF support and the
3:2 format- too bad for the sensor-
Yann

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--

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Indeed the 3:2 format is perfect for print. Same format as 35 mm film.
Fits the 6 x 4 and 12 x 18 print exactly, no sizing no cropping.
The most popular size print in photo lab in the US is 6 x 4.

The 4:3 does not fit any popular size print format paper, commercial lab or home printer.
All Sony Cybershot cameras, from the S70 have the 3:2 option. Thanks Sony.

NordicYann said:

The only reason why I will buy the 300D and not the F828 is it
superior image quality at higher ISO. Sony made a big mistake in
optimising its new sensor to support the highest number of pixels
possible instead of keeping the same number of pixel and improving
is ISO capability.

Click to expand...

Think about this:

If Sony is able to deliver an 8Mp image which has the same noise amout as a 7x7 5Mp image, then, resizing the 8Mp image to 5Mp will probably make you obtain a claner image.
In other words, the 828 in 5Mp mode could have less noise than the 7x7.

We also obtain the choice of cropping(not resizing), which means gaining some mm's in the telephoto end.

No?

Gianni

Travis said:

It is in our nature to persuade others to be just like ourselves.
If I decide to buy the 300d, it will be in my nature to want
everyone else to have one to and to share in the excitement that
I'll certainly have. The same is true for someone who buys the 828
or any other camera that they are proud to own.

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Nahhhhhhh... I don't subscribe to that view. It's too easy a way to explain complex behavior, too general, and there are too many exceptions to this "rule". Too many people who are better than that.

--

Ulysses

But you forget the factor of aperture and DoF.

Sony has a F2.0 7x CZ T lens. The closiest rival may be the Canon 28-135 F3.5-5.6 which have to stop down to F5.6 to rival the sharpness and DoF of CZ.

So you have to use iso 800 in Canon to rival iso 100 in Sony. So there is no advantage of Canon having a clean high iso performance. Am my deduction sound?

NordicYann said:

Like a bunch of others, I am going to buy a 300D even if I still
believe that the F828 in most aspects is a camera that would suit
me better.

The only reason why I will buy the 300D and not the F828 is it
superior image quality at higher ISO. Sony made a big mistake in
optimising its new sensor to support the highest number of pixels
possible instead of keeping the same number of pixel and improving
is ISO capability.

That said if Sony come back in a year or two with a F838 with 4/5
Mpix and good image quality even at 1600 ISO, there will be a 300D
on second-hand market.

As far I am concerned Sony got it right with the CF support and the
3:2 format- too bad for the sensor-
Yann

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