Anyone owns Panasonic 100-400 and Nikon 200-400?

Diswantsho

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I am getting interested in a Panasonic 100-400, but where I live it cannot be rented, so any m43 purchase I do is a step in the dark. On-line reviews look impressive. I would just like to ask if someone who owns it and perhaps a Nikon 200-400 or 200-500 could give me their impressions on how they compare optically: would you place a Pana 100-400 more equal to the sharpness of a Nikon 70-300, 80-400, or 200-500/200-400? I am asking about sharpness, as I understand the differences in field of view, bokeh and DOF between m43 and FF.

I find my Nikon 200-400 usually stays at home due to it's size and weight, and the Panasonic might be a good walkabout lens. I am not interested in the Oly 40-150 as I already have the 35-100, and I like the extra reach of the pana-leica for birding.

Ignore the GX1 in my profile. I hope to upgrade the body once I have sorted out my lenses.
 
I am getting interested in a Panasonic 100-400, but where I live it cannot be rented, so any m43 purchase I do is a step in the dark. On-line reviews look impressive. I would just like to ask if someone who owns it and perhaps a Nikon 200-400 or 200-500 could give me their impressions on how they compare optically: would you place a Pana 100-400 more equal to the sharpness of a Nikon 70-300, 80-400, or 200-500/200-400? I am asking about sharpness, as I understand the differences in field of view, bokeh and DOF between m43 and FF.

I find my Nikon 200-400 usually stays at home due to it's size and weight, and the Panasonic might be a good walkabout lens. I am not interested in the Oly 40-150 as I already have the 35-100, and I like the extra reach of the pana-leica for birding.

Ignore the GX1 in my profile. I hope to upgrade the body once I have sorted out my lenses.
I have been very pleased with my Nikon 200-500. It's quite sharp with decent background rendering. Focusing isn't particularly fast with my D800E or D7100 but very accurate. But it's heavy and bulky. I don't mind the size when I'm actually using it, but it's not a lens that you bring just in case. It tends to stay at home unless I know I'm going to shoot birds.

So I went to a store in Stockholm with the intention of buying a used Pana 100-400. I tried the lens on my E-M1 in the store and I have to say I was disappointed with the performance. Too soft for my liking at the long end and, worst of all, half of the test shots were out of focus on stationary subjects. Then I tried a new copy of the same lens. Same result. The zoom ring was also very stiff on both copies.

The test shots were taken in rather low light, but my 200-500 wouldn't have any problems under similar conditions.

I have now ordered an Oly 300/4. A lot more expensive, bigger and less versatile but it should be sharper and more reliable. It's faster too, which is important to me.

Just for fun, here are two shots I took with the 200-500 on my E-M1. Wide open and manual focus.

56d52f0ce6ca4e078cfed922a0ad75f1.jpg



425941415d49473484aaec8d0cbeb658.jpg

And here is one withe the same lens on my D7100 (1/13 s!).

6a31171e14e14234970be882ef77d954.jpg

Regards
Lasse

--
 
I don't own the Nikon, but I do own the 100-400mm.

It is a sharp lens. I've gotten beautiful results with it.

You do have to realize that technique matters with it, though. It prefers using e-shutter, and I find that a monopod or other support makes a noticible difference in sharpness especially at the long end.

My copy is not stiff to zoom or focus. There is definitely some sample variation in that regard.

I very highly recommend this lens. It's capable of producing just beautiful output, and yes it's sharp when handled correctly.

-J
 
Thanks Lasse.

My compliments on the 200-500 images. Nice shots!

Given the long range, it is understandable the Pana-Leica is not perfectly sharp, but it still costs a lot of money, and alternatives like the 300PF on the D800 also offer me portability with excellent quality for about the same money.

I am glad you told me about your experience - I would now rather make a plan to test one in a store and make sure, than to order blindly online. Last thing I want is an expensive lens with glass that is not up to my expectations.
 
I am getting interested in a Panasonic 100-400, but where I live it cannot be rented, so any m43 purchase I do is a step in the dark. On-line reviews look impressive. I would just like to ask if someone who owns it and perhaps a Nikon 200-400 or 200-500 could give me their impressions on how they compare optically: would you place a Pana 100-400 more equal to the sharpness of a Nikon 70-300, 80-400, or 200-500/200-400? I am asking about sharpness, as I understand the differences in field of view, bokeh and DOF between m43 and FF.

I find my Nikon 200-400 usually stays at home due to it's size and weight, and the Panasonic might be a good walkabout lens. I am not interested in the Oly 40-150 as I already have the 35-100, and I like the extra reach of the pana-leica for birding.

Ignore the GX1 in my profile. I hope to upgrade the body once I have sorted out my lenses.
It is in between the two Sigma 150-600 lenses in terms of sharpness and it will not compare to your 200-400, not even close. You also have to stop down to f8 to reach the sharpest point of the lens. Honestly, it's a decent consumer lens that happens to be weather sealed............nothing to write home about.
 
You do have to realize that technique matters with it, though. It prefers using e-shutter, and I find that a monopod or other support makes a noticible difference in sharpness especially at the long end.
Yes, of course, thanks. The heavy Nikon lenses cannot be realistically shot in any other way, so I already own a gimbal head, heavy tripod and monopod, but if I take all these, I will probably use the Nikon anyway. Given this lens goes to an equivalent of 800, good support will be critical, but I speculate that a nice bean bag might perhaps work with a 100-400 as a lighter alternative.

Good to know you are happy with the sharpness. I am trying to gauge more or less how sharp it is in relation to lenses I already know. Some reviews show details in every feather, but that might also be due to unsharp masking in post. I saw other photos online that did not impress me. I guess if it is equal to, or beats the Panasonic 35-100, I might perhaps be OK.
 
I am getting interested in a Panasonic 100-400, but where I live it cannot be rented, so any m43 purchase I do is a step in the dark. On-line reviews look impressive. I would just like to ask if someone who owns it and perhaps a Nikon 200-400 or 200-500 could give me their impressions on how they compare optically: would you place a Pana 100-400 more equal to the sharpness of a Nikon 70-300, 80-400, or 200-500/200-400? I am asking about sharpness, as I understand the differences in field of view, bokeh and DOF between m43 and FF.

I find my Nikon 200-400 usually stays at home due to it's size and weight, and the Panasonic might be a good walkabout lens. I am not interested in the Oly 40-150 as I already have the 35-100, and I like the extra reach of the pana-leica for birding.

Ignore the GX1 in my profile. I hope to upgrade the body once I have sorted out my lenses.
It is in between the two Sigma 150-600 lenses in terms of sharpness and it will not compare to your 200-400, not even close. You also have to stop down to f8 to reach the sharpest point of the lens. Honestly, it's a decent consumer lens that happens to be weather sealed............nothing to write home about.
Thanks, I asked the question as I started to get a hunch this might be the case. Your reference to the two sigma's give me a good reference point of what I can expect.
 
You do have to realize that technique matters with it, though. It prefers using e-shutter, and I find that a monopod or other support makes a noticible difference in sharpness especially at the long end.
Yes, of course, thanks. The heavy Nikon lenses cannot be realistically shot in any other way, so I already own a gimbal head, heavy tripod and monopod, but if I take all these, I will probably use the Nikon anyway. Given this lens goes to an equivalent of 800, good support will be critical, but I speculate that a nice bean bag might perhaps work with a 100-400 as a lighter alternative.

Good to know you are happy with the sharpness. I am trying to gauge more or less how sharp it is in relation to lenses I already know. Some reviews show details in every feather, but that might also be due to unsharp masking in post. I saw other photos online that did not impress me. I guess if it is equal to, or beats the Panasonic 35-100, I might perhaps be OK.
The 35-100 is significantly sharper.

35-100

100-400
 
I guess if it is equal to, or beats the Panasonic 35-100, I might perhaps be OK.
The 35-100 is significantly sharper.

35-100

100-400
Thanks. That gives me an indication. I had a look on that site at the Zuiko 50-200 , as I have a 4/3 adapter, but that seems to be rather low as well.

Oly 40-150 looks better, but overlaps with my existing lens. Then there is the 300. I will have to go back to planning. Thanks for your help.
 
I am getting interested in a Panasonic 100-400, but where I live it cannot be rented, so any m43 purchase I do is a step in the dark. On-line reviews look impressive. I would just like to ask if someone who owns it and perhaps a Nikon 200-400 or 200-500 could give me their impressions on how they compare optically: would you place a Pana 100-400 more equal to the sharpness of a Nikon 70-300, 80-400, or 200-500/200-400? I am asking about sharpness, as I understand the differences in field of view, bokeh and DOF between m43 and FF.

I find my Nikon 200-400 usually stays at home due to it's size and weight, and the Panasonic might be a good walkabout lens. I am not interested in the Oly 40-150 as I already have the 35-100, and I like the extra reach of the pana-leica for birding.

Ignore the GX1 in my profile. I hope to upgrade the body once I have sorted out my lenses.
It is in between the two Sigma 150-600 lenses in terms of sharpness and it will not compare to your 200-400, not even close. You also have to stop down to f8 to reach the sharpest point of the lens. Honestly, it's a decent consumer lens that happens to be weather sealed............nothing to write home about.
No, if you read the reviews, the improvement at f8 over wide open is primarily in the corners (which aren't bad wide open anyway). You do not have to stop down to f8 to use this lens with excellent results.

I wonder if anyone who has replied here has actually used this lens in the field. Two minutes in a store, and review surfing do not give you a good perspective on how it behaves in real life.

I've owned this lens for almost a year, and can tell you a lot about its strengths and weaknesses.

Is it sharp? Yes. Is it fussy about things at the long end? Yes. Have I gotten very sharp images at the long end? You betcha. Have I gotten terrible, soft, images at the long end? Yup. Were both the former and the latter due to my technique? Yes.

Is it tempting to forego good technique because, in most circumstances, the OIS is so good? Yes. It's easy to forget this is a very long tele because the OIS is so good most of the time. However, in critical situations, you need to remember what it is and treat it accordingly, or you will not get the results you desire.

Now, here we come to the second part of the equation:
I find my Nikon 200-400 usually stays at home due to it's size and weight, and the Panasonic might be a good walkabout lens. I am not interested in the Oly 40-150 as I already have the 35-100, and I like the extra reach of the pana-leica for birding.
The Nikon 200-400mm is a 4.6 lb lens. The Panasonic is a 2.2 lb lens. If the OP is not taking the 200-400mm with him because of weight, it could be the finest lens on the planet, but it would do him no good whatsoever in real use, since it would be home and in the closet. The 100-400mm is an excellent lens that will give you excellent results at a weight that means it goes with you, and does not stay in the bag at home.

Is that good enough? I don't know. I personally would never have gotten any of the larger FF zooms because I knew I'd never use them due to not wanting to carry them when I am walking around the woods. The 100-400mm is worlds better than the (even lighter) 100-300mm, which I had for years. It's sharp, it's got beautiful color and wonderful bokeh (even though that's not one of the criteria here), great OIS, very good close focusing abilities, and is small enough to let me take it when walking around, without incurring back, neck or wrist pain. When used with a monopod, it's fabulous. When used without, it can also be, but requires care and technique.

A little story.... when this lens was first released, I was very interested in it, as my 100-300mm was my most used M43 lens. The 100-300mm had numerous flaws, for sure, but I had learned how to work with the lens and its idiosyncracies over time. Since the 100-400mm seemed like it addressed most of the IQ complaints with the 100-300mm, I thought it would be a great choice for me. However, the first few people who posted shots from it put up the most awful, blurry, messes that put me off it totally. It wasn't until the lens made its way into the hands of people who were used to working with long lenses that images that showed what it was really capable of started being posted, and at that point I decided to get one. Interestingly enough, my shots have been pretty uniformly more like those of the experienced tele shooters', and not those first awful ones....

So, that being said, here are some shots from it. You decide if these are up to your standards, and go from there:















 
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can't compare the two but I can provide a large number of images shot using both the EM-1 and EM-1 mk2 with the 100-400, you decide if they will meet your needs

(as to f8 being needed to get a sharp image, all I can say is that I shoot wide open for >90% of my work and have yet to suffer from soft images, unless I screwed up my technique - >95% of my work is hand-held)

 
I am getting interested in a Panasonic 100-400, but where I live it cannot be rented, so any m43 purchase I do is a step in the dark. On-line reviews look impressive. I would just like to ask if someone who owns it and perhaps a Nikon 200-400 or 200-500 could give me their impressions on how they compare optically: would you place a Pana 100-400 more equal to the sharpness of a Nikon 70-300, 80-400, or 200-500/200-400? I am asking about sharpness, as I understand the differences in field of view, bokeh and DOF between m43 and FF.

I find my Nikon 200-400 usually stays at home due to it's size and weight, and the Panasonic might be a good walkabout lens. I am not interested in the Oly 40-150 as I already have the 35-100, and I like the extra reach of the pana-leica for birding.

Ignore the GX1 in my profile. I hope to upgrade the body once I have sorted out my lenses.
I have been very pleased with my Nikon 200-500. It's quite sharp with decent background rendering. Focusing isn't particularly fast with my D800E or D7100 but very accurate. But it's heavy and bulky. I don't mind the size when I'm actually using it, but it's not a lens that you bring just in case. It tends to stay at home unless I know I'm going to shoot birds.

So I went to a store in Stockholm with the intention of buying a used Pana 100-400. I tried the lens on my E-M1 in the store and I have to say I was disappointed with the performance. Too soft for my liking at the long end and, worst of all, half of the test shots were out of focus on stationary subjects. Then I tried a new copy of the same lens. Same result. The zoom ring was also very stiff on both copies.

The test shots were taken in rather low light, but my 200-500 wouldn't have any problems under similar conditions.

I have now ordered an Oly 300/4. A lot more expensive, bigger and less versatile but it should be sharper and more reliable. It's faster too, which is important to me.

--

http://lasseeisele.com/
Whenever I see a good sensible post I have the time-consuming habit of going to the author's website.

In this case I went to: http://lasseeisele.com/bilder-2/tr-d.html

Then to: http://lasseeisele.com/bilder-2/blommor.html

Then to every one of the "bilders" where I enjoyed every photograph shown. And the photographer generously included the exifs, rare nowadays. Good for you, Mr Eisele.

Since seeing that level of art is such a rare internet event for me, I went to: http://lasseeisele.com/om.html

... and read some stuff that I wish I'd written. Before doing that I had to learn how to use Google translate so that I could copy the English Translation. Why copy? .... So that I could send it to my photographer friends via email. Here are machine translations of some parts of your "Artist's Statement":

At that time, I was also bird-wounded. Soon I got tele-lenses for the camera and built the hide I spent many hours in. Bird photography became a kind of trophy hunt, with the difference that the change could live on to all the best.

I educated myself as a biologist and saddled to journalist but continued for many years to chase bird trophies. Long later I started making information about nature areas


and

A few years ago, I decided to only take pictures that I would like to see, regardless of what others think. It actually helped. In my own eyes, I have become a better photographer ever since. And I hope I can raise my mind. I have not yet taken my best pictures.

If you like my pictures, I'm happy. If you do not like them, I shrug my shoulders. My pictures are mine. Photography is simply my way of discovering the world around me.


and

There are pictures to be impressed with. Spectacular images. Technically perfect images. Or pictures that seem almost impossible to take.

And then there are pictures you just like, without wondering how the photographer was doing. It's the kind of pictures I want to try to achieve.

I feel at home in nature and that's where I photograph. The motives may be banal. The familiar and familiar to me is more exciting than the exotic. I will be happy when I discover something in my everyday landscape that I have not noticed before.


and

Most of my pictures are so far the most conventional. But I think I start approaching a more personal expression. Right now I'm fascinated by blurry and half-shots. When the details become difficult to distinguish, the structures and the whole appear to be clearer, I think. And photography is a lot about me to rename and highlight what I see.

and

All of my photos have passed through Photoshop. In most cases, it is just about adjusting contrast and colors, as could also be done in the old dark room (although it was more difficult then). In the case of images of documentary nature, I always stay there. It may be tempting at times to remove a malicious power line from a landscape view - or to add something exciting to another image. But images that look documentary should also be. Possibly, I would like to remove junk in the foreground that I could and should have moved on at the time of photography.

Lots of good stuff to think about there! See also Browning's Andrea del Sarto , where del Sarto says,

I, painting from myself and to myself,
Know what I do, am unmoved by men's blame
Or their praise either.


Onw year ago I purchased the 100-400. Like jalywol I had to learn how to use it properly after coming from the Panny 100-300 Mk I. 4 days ago I posted "Up close and personal with the Leica DG 100-400 ..... " , which contains some reasonable imagery and some hints about how I use it.

If you have lots of bandwidth, you can see how it performed during its first month with me, here: https://brtthome.com/2016/05/ This heavily cropped image of a singing American Redstart Warbler is one of my favorites:



p1240622-1.jpg


Here are some photos taken with it on the way home from the camera store: https://brtthome.com/2016/05/04/20160502-a-new-lens-burwash-in-late-afternoon/

I tried both the Oly 300mm prime (in the store) and the Leica 100-400mm last spring and opted for the zoom as I don't think that I am, yet, a good enough photographer to work either lens to its limits.

Thanks a lot for posting in the M4/3 forum, Lasse. We'll look forward to some excellent work with the 300 mm prime.

--
Tom
The best part of growing old is having the opportunity to do so.

 
... The Nikon 200-400mm is a 4.6 lb lens. The Panasonic is a 2.2 lb lens. If the OP is not taking the 200-400mm with him because of weight, it could be the finest lens on the planet, but it would do him no good whatsoever in real use, since it would be home and in the closet. The 100-400mm is an excellent lens that will give you excellent results at a weight that means it goes with you, and does not stay in the bag at home.
---

Exactly. And thanks for your beautiful examples. I saw elsewhere some images from a review that were not really sharp, and then i see some like these images here which exceed my expectations. I buy your argument about technique. One cannot shoot 800mm equivalent, be sloppy, and expect good results. Thanks also to Brian Wadie - seems like you agree.

I am not looking for miracles or a match to my 200-400. The 100-400 is however priced such that I am hesitant to just take the plunge. I tried with my question to ballpark it against lenses I know a bit about. Perhaps this is the debate here - whether the lens lives up to it's above-entry-level-price-tag. The images here seem to support that it is above average. The MTF graphs referred above show the lens is a bit below the Oly 40-150, but it is difficult to assess by how much it would make a difference in an image.

Thanks everyone for posting. I appreciate your responses.
 
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What a wonderful post, thank you so much Tom! I'm not sure I can live up to your expectations, but I'll do my best.

I can easily see why you're happy with the new lens. You've already got some very nice images on your site and the redstart warbler is just magnificent.

Maybe I too would have been happy with the 100-400, but after several months of debating with myself I went with the Oly prime. Hope I made the right decision.

Kind regards
Lasse
 
I just got the 100-400 and have used on both GH5 and E-M1 mark ii over the past week. Comparing it with my D500 plus 200-500 or sigma 500 f/4 I find the 100-400 to be not as sharp, but closer than it should be when you consider the size and weight difference. I rented the olympus 300 f/4 with TC and though it was sharper I like having the flexibility of a zoom, especially for video. I used to have the 100-300 with my GH2 and the improvements vs that setup are very noticeable to my eye.

It's a great light setup for birding and hiking long distances, or just when you don't feel like lugging 7-9 lbs on your shoulder and would rather the 3.8 lbs of the 100-400 + GH5.

If I had to choose one camera and lens combo for birding with photo and video (money no object) I would choose the GH5 and 100-400.

That being said, nowadays when I go birding I carry both GH5 with 100-400 and D500 with 200-500 or sigma 500.

GH5 for video and D500 for stills. Now if I were to go for more than 2 miles I'd probably leave one behind.

I'm happy I bought it for hand-held birding videos and as a light weight option for photos.
 
I just got the 100-400 and have used on both GH5 and E-M1 mark ii over the past week. Comparing it with my D500 plus 200-500 or sigma 500 f/4 I find the 100-400 to be not as sharp, but closer than it should be when you consider the size and weight difference. I rented the olympus 300 f/4 with TC and though it was sharper I like having the flexibility of a zoom, especially for video. I used to have the 100-300 with my GH2 and the improvements vs that setup are very noticeable to my eye.

It's a great light setup for birding and hiking long distances, or just when you don't feel like lugging 7-9 lbs on your shoulder and would rather the 3.8 lbs of the 100-400 + GH5.

If I had to choose one camera and lens combo for birding with photo and video (money no object) I would choose the GH5 and 100-400.

That being said, nowadays when I go birding I carry both GH5 with 100-400 and D500 with 200-500 or sigma 500.

GH5 for video and D500 for stills. Now if I were to go for more than 2 miles I'd probably leave one behind.

I'm happy I bought it for hand-held birding videos and as a light weight option for photos.
 
I think your point on technique is spot on. To compare handheld vs tripod mounted is like apples vs oranges. I've had the PL 100-400 since Oct of last year and it's taken some learning to get to the point where I am getting enough sharp photos. Shooting handheld with any lens that has a FF equivalent of 800mm is going to take some practice. IBIS/OIS helps somewhat but technique is still king here. Plus, at that FL, shutter shock can be a big factor for a given range of shutter speeds. Mounted on my EM1ii, I am really happy with the shots I'm getting.
 
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I'm happy with the PL. How many lenses of 200-800 equiv. can an old person with a damaged neck hand hold or carry around comfortably on a monopod.? Or fit in a sling bag or small roller.? As far as IQ, I find it comparable to most similar zooms I've used from Canon, Tamron and Sigma. Which means satisfactory but not as sharp as a prime.

If there's a limiting factor to IQ it's the need to use high ISOs when hand held or on a monopod(which I use most of time). I some posters have no problem wide open, I try to stick with f8.

Lens is "overpriced" but if you want a zoom of this range for M43, this is it
 
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What a wonderful post, thank you so much Tom! I'm not sure I can live up to your expectations, but I'll do my best.

I can easily see why you're happy with the new lens. You've already got some very nice images on your site and the redstart warbler is just magnificent.

Maybe I too would have been happy with the 100-400, but after several months of debating with myself I went with the Oly prime. Hope I made the right decision.

Kind regards
Lasse
 

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