X-T20 or Pen-F - Can't decide

paladin20 said:

From what people *say*, the image quality and dynamic range between the two cameras is basically the same,

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paladin20 said:

and the difference in DoF is down to which lenses you use.

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tesilab said:

For *some* situations, the ibis allows shooting at significantly slower shutter speeds, sometimes more than compensating for the the smaller sensor.

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fedway said:

Whichever one you find prettier. Seriously.

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paladin20 said:

I'm just concerned that losing out on IBIS will haunt me in the years to come!

The weight and size differences are largely insignificent it seems, after looking through the lens selections. But M43 does have a couple options fuji doesn't, unfortunately. Though I dont know if they are things I would actually ever use.

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sebiruns said:

paladin20 said:

I'm just concerned that losing out on IBIS will haunt me in the years to come!

The weight and size differences are largely insignificent it seems, after looking through the lens selections. But M43 does have a couple options fuji doesn't, unfortunately. Though I dont know if they are things I would actually ever use.

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One suggestion: search your photo library for photos with slow shutter speeds (maybe 1/30 and slower). Compare the number of results to all photos taken and you'll have a pretty good idea how much you do need ibis.

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paladin20 said:

sebiruns said:

paladin20 said:

I'm just concerned that losing out on IBIS will haunt me in the years to come!

The weight and size differences are largely insignificent it seems, after looking through the lens selections. But M43 does have a couple options fuji doesn't, unfortunately. Though I dont know if they are things I would actually ever use.

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One suggestion: search your photo library for photos with slow shutter speeds (maybe 1/30 and slower). Compare the number of results to all photos taken and you'll have a pretty good idea how much you do need ibis.

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Well, I have one at 1/6. And a couple at 1/60. The 1/6 is a nighttime landscape of a city from a high up balcony, which looked cool but could have been done with a tripod, or by resting my arm on a railing easily enough.

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paladin20 said:

I'm just concerned that losing out on IBIS will haunt me in the years to come!

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paladin20 said:

I'm just concerned that losing out on IBIS will haunt me in the years to come!

The weight and size differences are largely insignificent it seems, after looking through the lens selections. But M43 does have a couple options fuji doesn't, unfortunately. Though I dont know if they are things I would actually ever use.

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paladin20 said:

Ok, so I know this is the most biased place to get information for this particular question, but these are the two cameras I'm currently considering but I have only been able to test the X-T20 in person. Reviews and comparisons, however, seem mostly to favour the Pen-F and the M43 lens system.

So I though I would ask here, if anyone would actually, if starting a new system from scratch, would favour the Pen-F over the X-T20? And if so, why?

And if you would still choose the Fuji camera, why would you?

From what people *say*, the image quality and dynamic range between the two cameras is basically the same, and the difference in DoF is down to which lenses you use. M43 lenses tend to be smaller and lighter and cheaper than Fuji/apsc equivalents, and M43 also has more lenses available (A cheap long zoom and an actual macro, for instance). I kinda want to hear some viewpoints on what fuji brings to the table. I am hoping there's some aspects to Fuji I'm missing, other than just the nice ergonomics of the camera body (which is great by the way!).

I actually really like the Fuji, ive had it on test for a couple days, its a lot of fun to hold and use. I would just like to hear or see some thoughts from people who use it, before I pull the trigger on a purchase. Going from reviews and other threads on here, the Pen-F seems to win on every count, which surprises me as it's an older and smaller piece of kit.

(Ps I wrote this after work so im very tired, excuse if its pretty waffly!)

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laddsmith said:

paladin20 said:

Ok, so I know this is the most biased place to get information for this particular question, but these are the two cameras I'm currently considering but I have only been able to test the X-T20 in person. Reviews and comparisons, however, seem mostly to favour the Pen-F and the M43 lens system.

So I though I would ask here, if anyone would actually, if starting a new system from scratch, would favour the Pen-F over the X-T20? And if so, why?

And if you would still choose the Fuji camera, why would you?

From what people *say*, the image quality and dynamic range between the two cameras is basically the same, and the difference in DoF is down to which lenses you use. M43 lenses tend to be smaller and lighter and cheaper than Fuji/apsc equivalents, and M43 also has more lenses available (A cheap long zoom and an actual macro, for instance). I kinda want to hear some viewpoints on what fuji brings to the table. I am hoping there's some aspects to Fuji I'm missing, other than just the nice ergonomics of the camera body (which is great by the way!).

I actually really like the Fuji, ive had it on test for a couple days, its a lot of fun to hold and use. I would just like to hear or see some thoughts from people who use it, before I pull the trigger on a purchase. Going from reviews and other threads on here, the Pen-F seems to win on every count, which surprises me as it's an older and smaller piece of kit.

(Ps I wrote this after work so im very tired, excuse if its pretty waffly!)

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There has been a lot of sage advice, technical info to your initial question. Without repeating anything, I think it totally fair to say that there is no evidence that the 4/3 is BETTER than the X-Trans APS-C. Is it as good?-I doubt it, but assuming they are equal, both cameras are probably more competent than most of us that are not seasoned professionals (you might be an exception, so no insult intended). That said, I think you answered your own question in the last paragraph-you like shooting with the Fuji-and that is what this is about, not pixel peeping or looking at test bench stuff, but enjoying photography or using it as a tool for a profession. Either way, both are very very competent cameras-pick the one that you like to shoot with. To me the Fuji just makes sense, but I still have a few film cameras and like music from the 60's and 70's.

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Paul Clark SJ said:

1. Both systems are mature. Both cameras are good shooters.

2. Both systems have a good lens set. The m43 has more lens right now but the Fuji lineup is complete for many needs. A lot of the m43 lenses are consumer type. If you like shallower depth of field, Fuji is a better system. "Professional" m43 lens can get you down to the same depth of field (24,50,and 85 equivalent lens at F1.2) but you pay twice as much for them as the Fuji and they are heavier than the Fuji lenses. m43 has a few lenses that are unique (Olympus 12-100 F4, 40-150 F2.8 for instance) that only matter if you are going to use them. They also break the m43 smaller size advantage. Both lens sets have lens of great quality.

3. m43 has acceptable noise to 1600 (the latest processors may push this to 3200). The T-2 has acceptable noise to 6400 noise (2 stops better). This is dependent on your own noise tolerance. The process based OBIS of the m43 cameras mitigate this by allowing you to shoot static scenes at a lower shutter speed/ ISO without a tripod. Useless for moving subjects (like toddlers). Some of the Fuji lens have good OIS as well (18-135, 50-140). The processor based OBIS works on all lenses.

4. A full m43 kit weighs less than a full Fuji kit. I compared the pen kit to a t-20 kit with 4 primes and a similar pen kit is roughly 20% lighter. Only matters if you are carrying the full kit around. If you are carrying a camera and a prime or two, the difference is not really noticeable.

5. Both cameras have great jpgs. The film simulations in Fuji look very nice. I use a X70 as my light carry around and I shoot it in film simulation mode bracketing (chrome, velvia, b&w). The pen seems to be designed as a jpg shooter. It has incredible features for adjusting jpgs. If you shoot raw, the pen features are useless.

6. X-T20 has better continuous autofocus. The reviews of the pen camera all identify issues with the C-AF. Only matters if you use it. If you shoots sports or action, Fuji is the better choice.

7. The two shooting experiences are completely different. The Fuji experience is "purer". It is closer to a film experience and provides direct access to controls. I love this feature. However, the Pen allows you to have up to 4 presets that you can flip to quickly. If your photography requires to flip quickly between different types of photography, the presets are great. The pen has more gee-whiz type features. If you like playing with technology, they are fun. If you don't, they get in the way.

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Paul Clark SJ said:

Since you are sitting on the fence, my suggestion would be to rent both or pick one and buy it from a store with a good return policy. If you use it and like it, keep it and don't worry about the other one.

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MariusMasalar said:

This is a challenging question. I've shot with all the cameras mentioned though, so I'll just weigh in with my perspective in case it's helpful.

Strictly between the cameras in the OP, I would choose the PEN-F. And I would do it for ergonomic reasons because I never got along with the X-T10/X-T20 style bodies. The feel and charm of the X-Pro and X-T1/2 is lost and it feels like a cheap X-T2 but not in a good way.

The PEN-F feels like a sculpture steeped in quality manufacturing. Not weather sealed, but also incredibly dense and re-assuringly constructed.

I reviewed the PEN-F not that long ago and was really surprised by the results: I loved it.

IQ-wise, it's a strange situation. The Fujifilm will get you better dynamic range and there are lenses in the ecosystem that out-do the equivalent Olympus ones for sheer optical quality and character. I just did a shoot-out between the Fuji 35mm ƒ/2 and ƒ/1.4 and the Olympus 25mm ƒ/1.2 PRO...interesting results.

Anyway: you'll probably get more critically sharp shots out of the PEN-F. There's a whole section about it in the review, but it comes down to the contribution that IBIS makes.

I'll also mention that the topic of colours is more nuanced than people make it out to be. I love the Fujifilm film simulations, but you can get there with the PEN-F's JPG tools as well, it just takes more work. The much-maligned creative dial on the front is hiding the Colour Creator mode, which lets you effectively design your own film sim with way more control than you get elsewhere.

Once you design your own film sim, you can use it just by turning the dial to it. But that initial setup is less convenient than the Fuji way where most of the work is done for you.

Anyway, I won't re-hash the entire review but in the end my impression is that both cameras are fantastic and any differences in IQ won't become meaningful unless you regularly shoot in extremely difficult lighting situations. I have 13x19 prints from both in my home and they're indistinguishable.

The PEN-F will hit its maximum IQ potential more easily and more consistently thanks to IBIS, but the X-T20 has higher image quality potential if your technique (shooting and processing) is up to snuff. And if you like the ergonomics, which I don't.

If you were to replace the X-T20 with an X-T2 or X-Pro 2 in your question then I'd give the nod to those, but answering the question as asked: go with the PEN-F.

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