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FujiFilm Finepix F401: problem with blurry pics

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pibedoro

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hi, for the past 6 months I've been using the Finepix F401, it has been my first digital camera therefore I am still a novice photographer. I like the camera though it lacks in some features.

I've last used the camera at Manchester for the Champions League Final at the Old Trafford Stadium.

The first photos were turning great at time of entrance in the stadium. Though the environment was still very well lighted all of a sudden my shots one by one began to turn blurry and not good at all. I have to emphasize that in the meantime I did not change any camera settings. Also, I was not using a tripod but I think I was steady enough on the camera though I do not exclude that as being a novice photographer there were slight negligible movements.

I got in a panic as being from Malta and doing all the way to England to watch the match and all the photos were getting bad was not a very nice thing hence I decided to try and turn the flash on and set it to 'Auto'. Finally the images were turning ok but to my disasppointment the pitch from the natural light green which I was getting with the flash OFF, it turned into dark green, but at least I achieved to get good pictures.

These are some of the details at which the blurry photos were shot:
Shutter Speed: range varied from 1/58 down to 1/14
Quality 4millionFine
ISO Sensitivity ISO200
Focal Length 17mm
White balance Auto
Flash OFF

and these are the details of the really good photos
Shutter Speed: range varied from 1/60 up to 1/1300
Quality 4millionFine
ISO Sensitivity ISO200
Focal Length 17mm
White balance Auto
Flash AUTO

I noticed from the details of all pictures that the ones which turned bad had a very high Shutter speed (as high as 1/14) when compared to the excellent pictures (as mentioned above they were as low as 1/1300).

I cannot understand why did the shutter speeds vary by time as I did not change any camera settings during the match.

Unfortunately I cannot post the pictures to be viewed as they are only saved on my pc and not on any website.

I would like some hint from any you about the above problem.

Thanks
 
pibedoro said:
I noticed from the details of all pictures that the ones which
turned bad had a very high Shutter speed (as high as 1/14) when
compared to the excellent pictures (as mentioned above they were as
low as 1/1300).
I cannot understand why did the shutter speeds vary by time as I
did not change any camera settings during the match.
Unfortunately I cannot post the pictures to be viewed as they are
only saved on my pc and not on any website.

I would like some hint from any you about the above problem.

Thanks
Click to expand...
It's hard to say without pictures, but the shutter speed varies a lot because if it's not getting enough light it has to open the shutter for longer... if you want to get shorter shutter speeds, try metering off of things that are brighter, like white objects. I think this should help... other than that, you could try some using manual mode (if the camera has it) sorry I don't have a f401. Also you can turn it to a higher ISO... (and I don't know what this camera has for this either.) Dont' know if that helps, but it was an attempt :)

Tony
--
http://www.pbase.com/diness
 
Hi

I hope this helps.

Though you say that you held the camera very steadily any shutter speed below 1/60 of a second is exceptionally slow and requires a very steady hand - I have shot 35mm SLR work as as slow as 1/15 but that was bracing myself against a wall. Light levels in a stadium I think can change dramatically from deep shade to strong sunlight - not the easiest environment for reliable shots form the terraces!

I am not familiar with the F401 so cannot speak for it's settings or functionality but any picture with a slow shutter speed as mentioned above (please note I say slow not high) would be prone to camera shake. The fast shutter speeds from 1/125 up to 1/1300 (again please note fast not low) will always look good as you "freezing a moment in time".

It might help to think of it this way:-

The shutter speed is expressed as a fraction of a second - so, at 1/60 of a second the shutter is open for very long time compared to 1/1300 of a second. Therefore at 1/60 even the slightest of movements (even breathing) wil affect the clarity of the image because you are moving whilst the shutter is open.

From your description about the changing shutter speed I think the camera was set in a fullly auto program mode - and it would seem that this program is aperture biased. What I mean by that is :- the aperture was fixed and as the light levels changed the shutter speed varied to comform to the program demands. Please note that shutter speed and aperture work in unison to always let the same amount of light onto the CCD depending on the ISO setting.

Lastly, when you turned on the flash what the camera probably does is set a high shutter speed possibly somewhere between 1/160 and 1/250 of a second. And as the flash is only designed for short range the pitch which was beyond the flash range was underexposed compared to the area within say 30feet of your position.

I hope this is of some help in understanding why the camera gave the results it did.
pibedoro said:
hi, for the past 6 months I've been using the Finepix F401, it has
been my first digital camera therefore I am still a novice
photographer. I like the camera though it lacks in some features.
I've last used the camera at Manchester for the Champions League
Final at the Old Trafford Stadium.
The first photos were turning great at time of entrance in the
stadium. Though the environment was still very well lighted all of
a sudden my shots one by one began to turn blurry and not good at
all. I have to emphasize that in the meantime I did not change any
camera settings. Also, I was not using a tripod but I think I was
steady enough on the camera though I do not exclude that as being a
novice photographer there were slight negligible movements.
I got in a panic as being from Malta and doing all the way to
England to watch the match and all the photos were getting bad was
not a very nice thing hence I decided to try and turn the flash on
and set it to 'Auto'. Finally the images were turning ok but to my
disasppointment the pitch from the natural light green which I was
getting with the flash OFF, it turned into dark green, but at least
I achieved to get good pictures.

These are some of the details at which the blurry photos were shot:
Shutter Speed: range varied from 1/58 down to 1/14
Quality 4millionFine
ISO Sensitivity ISO200
Focal Length 17mm
White balance Auto
Flash OFF

and these are the details of the really good photos
Shutter Speed: range varied from 1/60 up to 1/1300
Quality 4millionFine
ISO Sensitivity ISO200
Focal Length 17mm
White balance Auto
Flash AUTO

I noticed from the details of all pictures that the ones which
turned bad had a very high Shutter speed (as high as 1/14) when
compared to the excellent pictures (as mentioned above they were as
low as 1/1300).
I cannot understand why did the shutter speeds vary by time as I
did not change any camera settings during the match.
Unfortunately I cannot post the pictures to be viewed as they are
only saved on my pc and not on any website.

I would like some hint from any you about the above problem.

Thanks
Click to expand...
 
diness said:
diness said:
I noticed from the details of all pictures that the ones which
turned bad had a very high Shutter speed (as high as 1/14) when
compared to the excellent pictures (as mentioned above they were as
low as 1/1300).
I cannot understand why did the shutter speeds vary by time as I
did not change any camera settings during the match.
Unfortunately I cannot post the pictures to be viewed as they are
only saved on my pc and not on any website.

I would like some hint from any you about the above problem.

Thanks
Click to expand...
It's hard to say without pictures, but the shutter speed varies a
lot because if it's not getting enough light it has to open the
shutter for longer... if you want to get shorter shutter speeds,
try metering off of things that are brighter, like white objects.
I think this should help... other than that, you could try some
using manual mode (if the camera has it) sorry I don't have a f401.
Also you can turn it to a higher ISO... (and I don't know what this
camera has for this either.) Dont' know if that helps, but it was
an attempt :)

Tony
--
http://www.pbase.com/diness
Click to expand...
thx tony. yes its hard without pics. I posted a reply in the other thread as well but I got a reply for that question here.

The camera at the time of shooting was getting all the time the same amount of lighting as I was seated and never changed position. The environment was very well lighted, as the sun had not yet set and the artificial lights were already on.

Pictures were shot all with the same ISO, some turned excellent, some good and some turned bad with relation to the different shutter speeds
 
Hi,

It's hard to tell without your pix yo look at, but from your data it sure looks as if the problem might be motion blur when the shutter speed was to low for your ability to hold the camera steady. Certainly at 1/14 it is really hard to avoid motion blur. (It can certainly be done, but one must make a conscious effort.) There is a rule of thumb that say you should ordinarily try and avoid a shutter speed slower than the reciprocal of the lens focal length (on a 35 mm equivalent basis): for a 100 mm equivalent, no slower than 1/100 sec.

Your 17 mm focal length would be about 76 mm on a 35 mm equivalent basis. That suggests that a shutter speed slower than 1/76 could be risky. (Again, assuming that no special technque was used to steady the camera.)

When you engage the flash, it forces the shuitter speed to be no slower than 1/60 (no slower than 1/200 for longer focal lengths) and this is likely responsible for the better result you got in that mode.

The color shift on the pitch surface is likely a result of the fact that with the flash engaged the camera applies a white balance that expects the image to be lit by the flash (with its relatively-bluish light), but of course this image was hardly at all lit by your flash.

Of course a failure to focus correctly can cause blurring as well (although it looks different). Is there any chance your camera was set to Manual Focus (MF) during any part of your shoot?

Sorry you had bad luck on your first important shoot.

Best regards,

Doug Kerr
 
Doug Kerr said:
Hi,

It's hard to tell without your pix yo look at, but from your data
it sure looks as if the problem might be motion blur when the
shutter speed was to low for your ability to hold the camera
steady. Certainly at 1/14 it is really hard to avoid motion blur.
(It can certainly be done, but one must make a conscious effort.)
There is a rule of thumb that say you should ordinarily try and
avoid a shutter speed slower than the reciprocal of the lens focal
length (on a 35 mm equivalent basis): for a 100 mm equivalent, no
slower than 1/100 sec.

Your 17 mm focal length would be about 76 mm on a 35 mm equivalent
basis. That suggests that a shutter speed slower than 1/76 could be
risky. (Again, assuming that no special technque was used to steady
the camera.)

When you engage the flash, it forces the shuitter speed to be no
slower than 1/60 (no slower than 1/200 for longer focal lengths)
and this is likely responsible for the better result you got in
that mode.

The color shift on the pitch surface is likely a result of the fact
that with the flash engaged the camera applies a white balance that
expects the image to be lit by the flash (with its
relatively-bluish light), but of course this image was hardly at
all lit by your flash.

Of course a failure to focus correctly can cause blurring as well
(although it looks different). Is there any chance your camera was
set to Manual Focus (MF) during any part of your shoot?

Sorry you had bad luck on your first important shoot.

Best regards,

Doug Kerr
Click to expand...
I thank you all for your interest mates. Yes the pics which turned bad were motion blurred. You could not have explained that better.

Box Brownie, I note your shutter speeds expl was what I intended to mean, I know that 1/60 is slower than 1/1300. thx anyway. Also, the light levels to my opinion did not change.

Would it be possible to mail you a few pics as I cannot put a link for you to see?

Who is willing to take a glance at them can tell me and I'd be very happy to email them as I don't want to bug you without your agreement
 
pibedoro said:
hi, for the past 6 months I've been using the Finepix F401,
Click to expand...
pibedoro said:
ll the photos were getting bad was
not a very nice thing hence I decided to try and turn the flash on
and set it to 'Auto'. Finally the images were turning ok but to my
disasppointment the pitch from the natural light green which I was
getting with the flash OFF, it turned into dark green, but at least
I achieved to get good pictures.

I would like some hint from any you about the above problem.

Thanks
Click to expand...
--

What is the sudder speed when you turned on the flash ? The pictures are good, but only too green is what I understood you to say .... so good exposure at flash speed setting ... hmmmmmmmm what distance were you shooting ?

-----
Mike Chinnock

Sanyo VPC-X350 HP C912 Fuji S602
Kenko VC-200HI
Sunpak 611 Vivitar 91
HP Photosmart P1000, 1115
 
When I turned the flash on the shutter speeds turned constant at 1/60. I was getting at least good pics but the colour of the pitch turned from light green (without flash) to dark green.

My problem is related to motion-blurriness due to varying shutter speeds when the flash was set off. At 1/60 and faster shutterspeeds I was getting good and excellent pics but to my disappointment all of a sudden pics began to turn blurry. Later I discovered that the shutter speeds of the bad pics were as slow as 1/14. The reason I don't know why.

I then had a try with the flash on and the blurriness vanished but the sarrounding coloures changed dramatically.
Mike Chinnock said:
What is the sudder speed when you turned on the flash ? The
pictures are good, but only too green is what I understood you to
say .... so good exposure at flash speed setting ... hmmmmmmmm what
distance were you shooting ?

-----
Mike Chinnock

Sanyo VPC-X350 HP C912 Fuji S602
Kenko VC-200HI
Sunpak 611 Vivitar 91
HP Photosmart P1000, 1115
Click to expand...
 
The 401 really doesn't have much in the way of manual controls, comparable to the dimage x I think. When you use the flash the camera automatically sets the white balance to compensate for the 'color' of the flash. So the scene may look properly exposed but colors should look funny (because the flash can't illuminate the entire field).

Your problem is just the metering the camera is doing. Make sure to half press the shutter before fully pressing so you get an idea of the shutter speed. If you get the hand shake icon, let go of the button and try again. Keep trying until the icon goes away, you'll get better results if you focus on a brighet section of the stadium etc...
 
no it ain't got manual controls. 4 sure the flash did not illuminate the pitch :) but at least i managed to obtain decent pics though the pitch colour turned dark.

what is this technique of half pressing the shutter before fully pressing? what idea should I get? a sort of preview of the pic? I am currently trying to do so but I am getting the hand shake icon all the time with the flash off. pressing half the shutter at flash on won't work though i suppose.

darren
jjthe2 said:
The 401 really doesn't have much in the way of manual controls,
comparable to the dimage x I think. When you use the flash the
camera automatically sets the white balance to compensate for the
'color' of the flash. So the scene may look properly exposed but
colors should look funny (because the flash can't illuminate the
entire field).

Your problem is just the metering the camera is doing. Make sure to
half press the shutter before fully pressing so you get an idea of
the shutter speed. If you get the hand shake icon, let go of the
button and try again. Keep trying until the icon goes away, you'll
get better results if you focus on a brighet section of the stadium
etc...
Click to expand...
 
I don't have your exact camera so I'm going by how most digicams work.

When you half press down, it just feels like pushing 50% the distance you would normally press. Sorry I'm not sure the best way to describe it. Usually some information will change on the LCD, like the shake icon. or the focus box will turn green if it focused properly.

Anyway, a half press allows the camera to focus and measure the amount of light available so that it can set the aperture and shutter speed. As long as you hold the half press without letting go or pressing all the way down, these settings won't change even if you point the camera somewhere else. The reason the shutter speed keeps changing on you, was that you were probably just repeatedly pushing all the way down for each picture. The shutter speed will then change depending on each shot and amount of light the camera measured. It will be very hard to get the same exact settings from shot to shot because the camera remeasures each time.

So when you half press and get the shake icon, you might as well not take the picture because it will be blurry. You might just try again and get a different reading especially with such a small camera. Or you can "fool" the automatic setting by pointing at something brighter during the half press. Just remember that the focus is also set at this time, so point at something about as far away as what you intend to shoot. Also don't let go, because as soon as you "release" the half press those setting are gone. You should be able to practice this in a dim room with a lamp. Point at the lamp and half press and there should be no shake icon. Point at a shadowy corner and the shake icon will return.
 
oh mate this was of astonishing great help.

I did not know that by keeping the shutter halfpressed for a second it would display you the shutter speed! I am also getting an F7 and a !AF. do you have any hint what they mean because the manual is not currently in reach of hand? Your description was astonishing.

I learned that as long as you do the above technique it would set the aperture shutter speed and that these settings as you said won't change. till here ok.

Then you said that the reason why the shutter speed kept varying for each picture was because I kept pushing all the way down for each picture. So I demand you, isn't that the way how photos are taken? With a half press the photo does not get saved on the smart media.
Question: How then could I take photos without pressing all the way down?
i hope you understand, i am still a novice

darren
jjthe2 said:
I don't have your exact camera so I'm going by how most digicams work.

When you half press down, it just feels like pushing 50% the
distance you would normally press. Sorry I'm not sure the best way
to describe it. Usually some information will change on the LCD,
like the shake icon. or the focus box will turn green if it focused
properly.

Anyway, a half press allows the camera to focus and measure the
amount of light available so that it can set the aperture and
shutter speed. As long as you hold the half press without letting
go or pressing all the way down, these settings won't change even
if you point the camera somewhere else. The reason the shutter
speed keeps changing on you, was that you were probably just
repeatedly pushing all the way down for each picture. The shutter
speed will then change depending on each shot and amount of light
the camera measured. It will be very hard to get the same exact
settings from shot to shot because the camera remeasures each time.

So when you half press and get the shake icon, you might as well
not take the picture because it will be blurry. You might just try
again and get a different reading especially with such a small
camera. Or you can "fool" the automatic setting by pointing at
something brighter during the half press. Just remember that the
focus is also set at this time, so point at something about as far
away as what you intend to shoot. Also don't let go, because as
soon as you "release" the half press those setting are gone. You
should be able to practice this in a dim room with a lamp. Point at
the lamp and half press and there should be no shake icon. Point at
a shadowy corner and the shake icon will return.
Click to expand...
 
F7 should be the aperture setting, I don't know the exact range for your camera. A lower number (F2...) means the aperture is more open allowing more light in. A higher number (F16...) means the aperture is more closed. Again I don't have your camera but !AF may mean the camera was not able to focus, usually this happens in low light.

You're right, a half press won't take a picture. I meant you kept pressing all the way down without getting an idea of what the shutter speed had been set at. If you're having trouble with blurry pictures, try half-pressing before fully pressing to know if the shutter is below 1/60. If you consistently get the hand shake icon, there's not much you can do without a tripod because there just isn't enough light.

So you can use the half press to get information about a shot before you take it. The one-second delay you mentined is the amount of time the camera needs to focus and change the settings. You can probably keep it half-pressed for ten seconds or so without the settings changing, but you half to fully press down to capture the picture.

So heres another test for the dim room to get a better idea of what I mean: half-press at the lamp to get the faster shutter speed, but then without letting up on the half-press, point at the shadowy corner and press the rest of way down to take the picture. The result should be underexposed, ie too dark.

Conversely, half-press at the shadows to get a slower shutter speed, then press the rest of way down while pointing at the lamp. The result should be too bright and probably blurry.

So then, using this idea you can trick an automatic camera to get some control over the shutter speed.
 
ok i think i got the concept of all. Press the shutter button down halfway to activate the AF/AE lock. The AF frame on the LCD monitor shrunks then whilst continuing to hold the shutter button down halfway you can move the camera to the desired image and then fully press down on the shutter button. as an example the shutterspeed is 1/400

question: how then can I keep the shutterspeed at a constant 1/400 for all following photos?

darren
pibedoro said:
darren
jjthe2 said:
I don't have your exact camera so I'm going by how most digicams work.

When you half press down, it just feels like pushing 50% the
distance you would normally press. Sorry I'm not sure the best way
to describe it. Usually some information will change on the LCD,
like the shake icon. or the focus box will turn green if it focused
properly.

Anyway, a half press allows the camera to focus and measure the
amount of light available so that it can set the aperture and
shutter speed. As long as you hold the half press without letting
go or pressing all the way down, these settings won't change even
if you point the camera somewhere else. The reason the shutter
speed keeps changing on you, was that you were probably just
repeatedly pushing all the way down for each picture. The shutter
speed will then change depending on each shot and amount of light
the camera measured. It will be very hard to get the same exact
settings from shot to shot because the camera remeasures each time.

So when you half press and get the shake icon, you might as well
not take the picture because it will be blurry. You might just try
again and get a different reading especially with such a small
camera. Or you can "fool" the automatic setting by pointing at
something brighter during the half press. Just remember that the
focus is also set at this time, so point at something about as far
away as what you intend to shoot. Also don't let go, because as
soon as you "release" the half press those setting are gone. You
should be able to practice this in a dim room with a lamp. Point at
the lamp and half press and there should be no shake icon. Point at
a shadowy corner and the shake icon will return.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
I have a 401.

1- use iso 400 setting in those conditions.

2- set sound on - pushing half way it says beep-beep,
it means that the cam is ready with getting the focus and the licht-metering.

3- Dont use the lcd-display!
It eats battery , no problem maby..butt..

The 401 is a verry licht-weacht and small.
You are not steady when looking at the lcd.

Use de optical viewer..
Putt your elbows ageanst your chest.
Putt the cam agaenst your nose.
Dont breath.- like a sharpshooter.

I am sure that your results will be better.

Hope this helps.
 
pibedoro said:
question: how then can I keep the shutterspeed at a constant 1/400
for all following photos?
Click to expand...
You can't. That's the problem with a fully automatic camera, even if you know what the correct exposure is, there is now way to make the camera do it. That doesn't mean you can't get good shots, you just need more patience.
 
I read all the answers on the thread and your e-mail. It does sound so me like user error. A friend of mine does exactly the same with his 601. He points the camera at the subject and them pushes the shutter release all the way. Result blurred photographs.

The advice you have already been given is good. Get your image in the viewfinder. Press the buttom halfway down. Listen for the beep beep, that will tell you that the information has been passed to the camera. Hold your breath and fire the shutter.

Low light distant subjects are difficult for cameras like this to focus on, hence the hand symbol.

My best advice is for you to go out and practice with it. It won't cost you anything. It's just a shame that you were unable to record the football match.

--
gibbsy
http://www.pbase.com/gibbsy
 
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