landshark
Senior Member
Sadly I have to agree.
If this Batis is a f1.8 or f2.0 I'd argue with you, but at f2.8 you are absolutely right that it offers nothing over the GM85 @ f1.4.
Can't wait to see the GM135 @ 1.3kg with a $3.5k pricetag
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ZEISS Batis 2.8/135 APO [ $1,999.00 ] is officially announced...
- Thread starter Focus Breather
- Start date
biza43
Forum Pro
Fully agree. With the introduction of 70-200 f2.8 zooms, the 135mm focal length prime became less popular. It was never very popular in the RF systems, due to difficult framing lines (too small an area in the VF patch). Even Canon and Nikon are letting their 135 lenses drag for ever; the 135L and the 135 DC must be on their lower priority to update. Well, Nikon even introduced a world first with the 105 f1.4, rather than updating their DC lenses (105 and 135).
Yup.
N
No account anymore
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I don't know the sales figures for 135 mm lenses, but I assume most photographers use lenses in the 85 mm range for studio and outdoor portraits, and telezoom lenses for more flexibility for other types of short to medium tele photography.
Earlier 135 mm f:2.8 and 200 mm f:4 lenses were popular. I even had a Topcor 200 mm f:5.6 lens! Not bright, not that sharp, but that was what I could afford. ;-)
After a quick glance, I didn't see this posted on this thread.
Keep in mind that this is from a single prototype sample of the lens,
From my very limited understanding of these tests, one thing I noticed is the result for the Batis at the higher lp/mm units which as far as I read, shows the ability of the lens to resolve finer details.
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Keep in mind that this is from a single prototype sample of the lens,
From my very limited understanding of these tests, one thing I noticed is the result for the Batis at the higher lp/mm units which as far as I read, shows the ability of the lens to resolve finer details.
Focus Breather
Senior Member
Dave Sanders
Senior Member
No. Way. Thanks for this ground breaking information. But the same capable hands make better shots with better gear.
I don't recall my post having anything close to this topic. Or you just trying to get that off your chest?
I don't understand what you're trying to say here. Sony people are gear sobs, m43 shooters are mired in mediocrity? Anyways, I largely agree. At times I think Sony is trying to be the new Leica. Oh well, I guess it's profitable. Too rich for my blood, though.
joger
Veteran Member
Both compared lenses are one stop faster tested.
If you'd stop them down they are sharper - especially towards the corners.
Sharpness is IMHO not the most important meassure of a lens.
Bokeh, size, weight and build quality are at least as impotrant for me.
The Canon 135 f/2.0 is an amazing Lens for half the price!!!
(And one stop faster and almost the same weight)
If you'd stop them down they are sharper - especially towards the corners.
Sharpness is IMHO not the most important meassure of a lens.
Bokeh, size, weight and build quality are at least as impotrant for me.
The Canon 135 f/2.0 is an amazing Lens for half the price!!!
(And one stop faster and almost the same weight)
Tristimulus
Veteran Member
Fully agree - but do not deny that having a sharp lens is a bad thing.
Fully agree - and in my case bulk is appaling. :-D
But then price is not always an issue - there are lots of deep pockets out there.
If going cheap matter there is a flood of older 135 mm lenses out there ready to be adopted and adapted.
Look, feel and want:
The Batis lenses look like (police warning: this is a subjective statement) goddesses among lenses - makes the other lenses simply look ramshackeled... :-D
The Batis 2.8/135 mm lens is not cheap but I fully understand why some will get this lens over any other other 135 mm lens out there. The want it factor is sky high...
landshark
Senior Member
I am looking forward to this lens arriving, from all accounts so far it is optically stunning, the size is reasonable, the aperture is fine for my use, I do want a well made lens that has autofocus, I have zero desire to use adapters(own one for nikon lenses), zero desire to only manual focus( did that for more years than I care to remember and still own a number of manual focus film cameras), not thrilled but have gotten use to no aperture ring, do not want to carry the 80-200 around, would I like it to be cheaper sure, but it is an APO. This should be the last lens for my Sony's unless they bring out a 300 or 400. Do I miss the fact that it is not an F2 or faster, not really, I would not want it to be that much heavier or larger.
Mine is on order, hopefully here next month, will let all know how it shoots.
Mine is on order, hopefully here next month, will let all know how it shoots.
I have a few Batis, but never really like its look, also, I do a lot of manual focus, the "feel" is among the worst compare to all traditional Zeiss ZM/ZF I have. just personal preference thing.
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I agree, the Batis is not as easy to manual focus as other Zeiss lenses. I would prefer a more texturised rubber on the focus ring.
joger
Veteran Member
For years I've been touting that sharpness is the most important thing when it comes to the technical part of photography
Since I've got my A7RM2 things have changed - all my lenses are sharp enough - the things that set them apart are either aperture and/or size and weight and bokeh and user interface - in other words an aperture ring on the lens plus a good manual focus has more value to me than the last 5 % of sharpness - equally to my sports car I could not care less for a few HP more - I struggle to use the power of my car already
have fun with it! I prefer for the travel bag small and tiny lenses - I love my Voigtlaender 15 mm lens. Small is beautiful ;-)
and long hands hopefully - my pockets for my interests are extremely deep over time but I hate to spend my hard earned money on rubbish things.
Make a modern version of the Leica 135 Apo Tele M with full EXIF and I'd be willing to spend a fortune!
With no EXIF - btw - my Leica costed me much less than the new Batis and it is optically a masterpiece - unfortunately without EXIF - as said many time - it's my only adapted lens so I can live with this fact
aha
make a GM 135 f/1.8 for 3 k USD and I buy it in a heartbeat. Make additionally a Sony version of the Leica 135 f/3.4 APO Tele M with full EXIF for 3.5 k USD and buy this additionally the next heartbeat
For me this looks like Zeiss on steroids. They obviously hired some new marketing guys and they sit together thinking what to bring to the market that is so different that it is easily recognizable and - well - different.
No aperture ring - no AF/MF switch on the lens and a fancy OLED display for the "I want it cool fraction" - but what bothers me most is the sheer size of the Batis lenses - tested the 18 / 25 and 85 and disliked them a lot in handling and feel. Image quality is good but as stated above the sharpness is good enough on all my small lenses ;-)
At the end of the day it all comes down to craftsmanship. The last 5 % in sharpness are less perceivable than many think - me including - I love sharp lenses but e.g. my Samyang 135 gets no usage in my Photo bag even though it is optically outstanding - it is just bad in handling - at least my copy focusses like an old rusty water pipe nozzle. Sharpness is not the thing to worry about with good MF primes on an A7RM2 and probably nothing to worry on an A7RM3 too with 50-80 MPixel and lots of headroom to crop!
joger
Veteran Member
I have zero desire for another bulky and slow lens and I have zero desire to use any kind of zoom on my A7RM2.
I am sure the image quality will be great - but so is my Samyang 135 f/2.0 and yet I never use it because it is horrible in handling - tested all existing Batis lenses and disliked the rubber and feel of the lenses.
AF on fast primes is extremely welcome and MF on slower and smaller primes is very acceptable for me - I have two lens lines - one for situations where AF is desperately needed and one of situations where MF makes utterly sense.
I have also two cars - one for traveling and one for fun - the Batis lenses seem to be the family van that is supposed to be spacey but neither very fast nor very agile in handling - I guess this describes it best.
Of course I am happy for everybody that desires a family van - not my cup of tea though
RubberDials
Senior Member
I hate to disappoint you but I am confident that Sigma will spam FE users from here to eternity and produce a lens for every focal length imaginable.
50% of threads on this forum over the next five years will consist of Sigma users declaring anybody who has bought an FE lens not made by Sigma to be 'insane' or a 'Zeiss/GM fanboi'.
I'm dreading it already.
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RubberDials
Senior Member
You're right, apart from more reach, OSS, focussing distance information and apochromatic correction the 200 offers nothing over the 85GM.
RubberDials
Senior Member
It's impossible to say the lens is overpriced because there is nothing to judge the price by. There aren't any other AF 135 lenses in E-mount, whether apochromatic or with OSS or not. There aren't even any FE tele primes - not proper teles - this is the first one. Believe me, when they come, fast or slow, they are all going to cost at least this much.
It's also interesting that you seem to think the only thing that can affect the price of a lens is it's speed. A bit like assuming that vintage wine should only cost more than wine from a petrol station if it comes in a larger capacity bottle.
Zeiss lenses use better quality glass and materials than Sigma lenses and are made to higher standards. The question is not whether that is the case - it is undoubtedly the case - the question is whether that makes them better lenses for general photography, which does not require the highest standards of optical polishing and purity of glass anyway.
Another thing to consider is the actual T-stop of the lens. The Sigma 135/1.8 is very unlikely to have a T-stop of f1.8 - the Canon 135/2L is f2.3 for example. The Batis lenses have T-stops that match their maximum aperture according to DXOmark.
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vett93
Veteran Member
I am a muscle/pony car fan. I had a 1993 Corvette back in the days, after a Mustang and a Firebird Trans Am. After these 3 cars, I made a big mistake of buying a German car, a BMW 7-series with factory lowered M-Sport suspension. It drove like a dream when it was not in the shop. It was the single POS car I have ever owned and I was stranded 7 times in the 8 years of ownership. No more German car for me after that. I was on a BMW 7-series forum back then. Everyone's BMW 7-series had tons of problems.
I am now back to American muscle car with a 392 cubic inch engine and 485 HP! When I was shopping for this car, my wife told me that I should get the 707HP version. Wish I had listened to her. Vroommmm....
I am now back to American muscle car with a 392 cubic inch engine and 485 HP! When I was shopping for this car, my wife told me that I should get the 707HP version. Wish I had listened to her. Vroommmm....
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