Why are outdoor shots dull and faded?

Francesco · Aug 25, 2003

dear Hunk,

I am doing some research on the image quality of the 10D compared to the sharpness of the Sigma camera's new sensor type.

Would you be so nice to post a link to the original full-sized file of this photo? I'd like to check out some details pixel by pixel.
Appreciate,

F.

John Mankos · Aug 25, 2003

Use a 'Polish' USM with values like 20/50/0

Here's what it will produce compared to your original:

And your original:

David Scheffler said:

--
John

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hunk · Aug 25, 2003

Francesco said:
dear Hunk,

I am doing some research on the image quality of the 10D compared
to the sharpness of the Sigma camera's new sensor type.
Would you be so nice to post a link to the original full-sized file
of this photo? I'd like to check out some details pixel by pixel.
Appreciate,

Sounds like you do not believe it's sharp & saturated 'out-camera'... ;-)
But here is the original jpg;

http://www.x32.nl/images

click on img_9813

(btw, i paid $75 for this lens 15 years ago..)

GBear · Aug 25, 2003

notext

GBear · Aug 25, 2003

Melanie - I seem to remember it was described as "defogging" - in any even it works a treat and I have it built into my keyboard as an action triggered by Ctrl-F2 and Ctrl F3 - one is stronger and the other weaker (I forger what changes were made to create this). It works pretty good to run twice, too -.

Glad you remembered this, its a good one.

David Mazeau · Aug 25, 2003

David Scheffler said:
I too find that my images are rather flat. I used a polarized
filter at one point (not on this pic), which helped out some, but
any tips on how to make this photo "pop" would be appreciated.

The only question I have is what did it look like when you were standing
there ?

If you shoot .JPEG you can set up the custom functions so that you
will have oversaturated colors, if that's what you want.

Or get a Sigma SD9. But I find the Canon 10D images to be more
realistic, even if they don't always really catch your eye right off.

After awhile I have gotten this way, but previously I was the other
way. That is, preferring Sigma SD9 images, and oversaturated
colors, et cetera.

But maybe I have misunderstood what you mean by "pop".

David Scheffler · Aug 25, 2003

Thanks, what you did are along the lines of what I am wanting. I made the mistake of shooting jpg which limits me more than I would like, but I will definitely explore the Polish and other USMs.

--
David
San Antonio area - TX
http://www.davesdepictions.com
http://www.atvoutdoors.net (my other hobby)

David Scheffler · Aug 25, 2003

You are right on with my reference to "pop." It looked much more vibrant when I was standing there. The colors seem flat and I would like a little more saturation. I have explored this problem a bit since I took that photo with some luck. The saturation settings on the 10D do help somewhat, but I may be overoptimistic about what I can get from the provided light.

This may be a weird way to describe it, but that image makes me feel like the camera had a light layer of fog on the lens. Could my UV filter be the cause of this??

David Mazeau said:
David Scheffler said:

I too find that my images are rather flat. I used a polarized
filter at one point (not on this pic), which helped out some, but
any tips on how to make this photo "pop" would be appreciated.

Click to expand...

The only question I have is what did it look like when you were
standing
there ?

If you shoot .JPEG you can set up the custom functions so that you
will have oversaturated colors, if that's what you want.

Or get a Sigma SD9. But I find the Canon 10D images to be more
realistic, even if they don't always really catch your eye right off.

After awhile I have gotten this way, but previously I was the other
way. That is, preferring Sigma SD9 images, and oversaturated
colors, et cetera.

But maybe I have misunderstood what you mean by "pop".

--
David
San Antonio area - TX
http://www.davesdepictions.com
http://www.atvoutdoors.net (my other hobby)

GBear · Aug 25, 2003

It wasn't Melanie after all (I think I just remember that smile !) - altho she was one of the contributors.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=5270139

The additional comments on this thread are well worth reading, they consist of a mini-tutorial on some of the more abtruse aspect of sharpening.

William George · Aug 25, 2003

This is a copy of my previous post on this topic.

I have had my 10D for five months and I am still blown away by the image quality. Color accuracy, saturation and image sharpness are incredible. I've had many images that when opened in Photoshop were razor sharp. I have applied a touch of USM simply because of the delivery medium. To get good results the usual requirements must be met:

1. Good light

2. Proper exposure (includes a shutter speed appropriate for the shot to minimize induced blur.)

3. Proper camera settings. I always shoot RAW and in Adobe RGB colorspace.

4. Good quality lenses. My "worst" lens is the 28-135IS workhorse which still will provide sharp contrasty images if used within its limitations.

This camera will challenge your lenses if set up properly. The 10D tells it like it is.
http://www.pbase.com/wgeorge/canon_10d

Cheers,

--
Bill George
Hawaii-Landscapes-Aerials
http://www.hawaiiscenics.com/

randy Senior said:
I am finding that many of the outdoor pictures I take with my 10d
have low contrast and appear to be dull and washed out. I need to
tweak almost everyone in PS by adjusting the levels. Any ideas.

I am using 17-40L and 70-200L lenses

Francesco · Aug 25, 2003

Thanks.... I guess I can really live without the X3 hehehehe...
10D sounds like the best choice at this moment...
Great shot, really and great definition...

F.

hunk · Aug 25, 2003

Francesco said:
Thanks.... I guess I can really live without the X3 hehehehe...
10D sounds like the best choice at this moment...
Great shot, really and great definition...

F.

Thanks! I found the 10D behaves a bit like uh, film. Almost every shot taken in the sunny evening, between 6-8pm, turns out nice, warm, saturated.. Camera is on it's best with less harsh lightning.

GBear · Aug 25, 2003

David - this is the "defogging" USM = Amt 12, radius 50.0 and threshold 0, repeated 4 times. Might be one too many ? I have this as an action assigned to an Fkey and use it most every image.

Francesco · Aug 25, 2003

Somehow it looks to me that we have similar tastes in picture taking. I really loved your shot... definitely my style... I wish DP had a chat room cos i'd like to ask you more questions hehehehehe....

F.

GBear · Aug 25, 2003

William George said:
3. Proper camera settings. I always shoot RAW and in Adobe RGB
colorspace.

Why do you use Adobe RGB? I use Ps 7 but I could not understand the 10D manual comment re Adobe RGB. Does it give better results? In what way? Thanks for your patience.

GBear · Aug 25, 2003

David Scheffler said:
This may be a weird way to describe it, but that image makes me
feel like the camera had a light layer of fog on the lens. Could
my UV filter be the cause of this??

Actually a lot of factors including the quality of the lens, possible flare effects which are not overtly visible, and the filter as you suggest. See my post "see if this is better" -

And I would suggest reading the original thread about defogging (I give it in yet another post - see heading) - this "defogging" step is aimed at EXACTLY the feeling you describe of a "light layer of fog" (you're not the first one to see this effect). I find (somewhat contrary to the comments in a couple of the posts in this thread) that the defogging action gives less loss of shadow detail than manipulating levels.

Anyhow, good luck.

softtower · Aug 25, 2003

paul84043 said:
Depends on your lighting conditions. The images that come out of
the 10D do tend to be on the soft, flat side and do typically need
some refreshing with photoshop.

Hm... Comparing to what? Comparing to most 35mm film scans and my previous G1/G2 I was very impressed with 10D color/saturation balance and accuracy. I almost always shoot with either "Custom WB" or "Color Temp" settings.

--
Eugueny

AndrewTW · Aug 25, 2003

I have noticed a significant difference when shooting using a preset or auto white balance as apposed to using a white card and the custom white balance setting. It seems that the white balance choices my camera (d60) makes usually produce a flatter and less vibrant image.

Just my 2cents.

-Andy

David Scheffler said:
This may be a weird way to describe it, but that image makes me
feel like the camera had a light layer of fog on the lens. Could
my UV filter be the cause of this??

David Mazeau said:

David Scheffler said:

I too find that my images are rather flat. I used a polarized
filter at one point (not on this pic), which helped out some, but
any tips on how to make this photo "pop" would be appreciated.

Click to expand...

The only question I have is what did it look like when you were
standing
there ?

If you shoot .JPEG you can set up the custom functions so that you
will have oversaturated colors, if that's what you want.

Or get a Sigma SD9. But I find the Canon 10D images to be more
realistic, even if they don't always really catch your eye right off.

After awhile I have gotten this way, but previously I was the other
way. That is, preferring Sigma SD9 images, and oversaturated
colors, et cetera.

But maybe I have misunderstood what you mean by "pop".

Click to expand...

--
David
San Antonio area - TX
http://www.davesdepictions.com
http://www.atvoutdoors.net (my other hobby)

MarcyS · Aug 25, 2003

How did you set the white balance on this picture? I suspect it was a AWB which picked a warmer model than was actually present. The red end of the picture seems a bit surpressed, which happens in the light generated by heavy overcast.

Marcy

John Mankos · Aug 25, 2003

To me that looks overdone a bit....but that's the general effect.

I gave it one shot with 20/50/0 and it looked much better.....two shots and it started to wash out the clouds a tiny bit...but still acceptable.

Hard to say, also, what the effect would actually have on the (extremely) downsized version vs the original....only David can tell us!

GBear said:
David - this is the "defogging" USM = Amt 12, radius 50.0 and
threshold 0, repeated 4 times. Might be one too many ? I have
this as an action assigned to an Fkey and use it most every image.

--
John

Equipment list in profile...subject to change on a daily basis ;^)

Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the universe together

Join the Mid-Atlantic DSLR group....for all DSLR Users in the Eastern PA, NJ, DE, MD areas
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/midatlantic-dslr/join

Why are outdoor shots dull and faded?

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