Advice: Improving Stills IQ : panasonic lenses + GX85 vs. GX8 vs no new camera cam

Hi everyone,

I am the owner of a GM-1 since 2014 (it was basically an upgrade from panasonic bridge). I find myself frustrated with the GM-1. I like the pics but the overall shooting experience is less good than with the bridge (main issues: 1. no viewfinder, 2. controls too small... like going crazy on manual focus on the 12-32mm). Also sometimes I feel that my pics are "softer" with the GM-1 than with the bridge... but that could be me I did not test since the bridge is out of order)

I have the Pana 12-32mm and the Pana 45-175mm. Now, I want to try primes in order to improve image quality. I am thinking about the 25mm 1.4 and the 42.5mm 1.7 (also want a macro and thinking about Oly. 60mm but that's something else and budget is an issue...)

With the current lenses, here is my shooting tendency (not original I guess):

Landscapes: 12-20mm

Scenes : 20-32mm

Portrait / People: 25mm, 32mm, 45mm + Zoom

So, now the question. Do I really need GX85 or GX8 to improve stills IQ (like kids portraits and general everyday life scenes like kids running / playing... ) or with the two lenses I mentioned I can do it (with a bit of frustration) on the GM-1?

If switching, I know this had been discussed already and there is plenty of reviews but I am still wondering about the GX8 vs. GX85... The GX8 seems been forgotten and its price is now quite similar to the one of the GX85 (while providing weather sealing and tiltable viewfinder that attracts me a lot and the 20Mp sensor... )... The specs seems to say that the GX8 will have a longer life (I like also the weather sealing to evolve later with interesting outdoor lenses, prime tele and macro...).

Thanks for help!

Longan

(Background: I also looked a lot at Olympus OM-D EM-5 but it is more expensive and EM-10 but then the benefits are less clear and given what I read, I feed there is a benefit staying with one brand...)

I had the GM1 to provide Compact UWA capability when travelling (7-14mm). The 12-32mm was used otherwise, in a compact belt case. Yes, the controls are tiny but overall I liked the camera very much but changed to a GF7 for the tiltable screen. I'm a little surprised that you say you use manual focus. For everyday use in reasonable light, IMO, AF is far more reliable. Especially given the 12-32mm is stabilised. Have you considered that your soft images might be due to imprecise focus?

The only time I used manual focus on the GM1 was with the Samyang 7.5mm and 7-14mm when shooting the Aurora Borealis in Sweden and stars in Bryce Canyon.

I have only one prime, the 25mm f1.7, a bargain price and great in challenging light.

Longan said:

Hi everyone,

I am the owner of a GM-1 since 2014 (it was basically an upgrade from panasonic bridge). I find myself frustrated with the GM-1. I like the pics but the overall shooting experience is less good than with the bridge (main issues: 1. no viewfinder, 2. controls too small... like going crazy on manual focus on the 12-32mm). Also sometimes I feel that my pics are "softer" with the GM-1 than with the bridge... but that could be me I did not test since the bridge is out of order)

I have the Pana 12-32mm and the Pana 45-175mm. Now, I want to try primes in order to improve image quality. I am thinking about the 25mm 1.4 and the 42.5mm 1.7 (also want a macro and thinking about Oly. 60mm but that's something else and budget is an issue...)

With the current lenses, here is my shooting tendency (not original I guess):

Landscapes: 12-20mm

Scenes : 20-32mm

Portrait / People: 25mm, 32mm, 45mm + Zoom

So, now the question. Do I really need GX85 or GX8 to improve stills IQ (like kids portraits and general everyday life scenes like kids running / playing... ) or with the two lenses I mentioned I can do it (with a bit of frustration) on the GM-1?

If switching, I know this had been discussed already and there is plenty of reviews but I am still wondering about the GX8 vs. GX85... The GX8 seems been forgotten and its price is now quite similar to the one of the GX85 (while providing weather sealing and tiltable viewfinder that attracts me a lot and the 20Mp sensor... )... The specs seems to say that the GX8 will have a longer life (I like also the weather sealing to evolve later with interesting outdoor lenses, prime tele and macro...).

Thanks for help!

Longan

(Background: I also looked a lot at Olympus OM-D EM-5 but it is more expensive and EM-10 but then the benefits are less clear and given what I read, I feed there is a benefit staying with one brand...)

Click to expand...

The IQ of the GM1 is fine. You would have to upgrade to one of the recent bodies to get noticeably better. The 12-32 is a great lens for the size and cost but you could get better IQ with a better lens.

The FL should match where you want the best IQ. I would get a used 20mm f/1.7 but it doesn't have IS and that might matter. On the other hand the size matches the GM1.

Andrew

Longan said:

Hi everyone,

I am the owner of a GM-1 since 2014 (it was basically an upgrade from panasonic bridge). I find myself frustrated with the GM-1. I like the pics but the overall shooting experience is less good than with the bridge (main issues: 1. no viewfinder, 2. controls too small... like going crazy on manual focus on the 12-32mm). Also sometimes I feel that my pics are "softer" with the GM-1 than with the bridge... but that could be me I did not test since the bridge is out of order)

I have the Pana 12-32mm and the Pana 45-175mm. Now, I want to try primes in order to improve image quality. I am thinking about the 25mm 1.4 and the 42.5mm 1.7 (also want a macro and thinking about Oly. 60mm but that's something else and budget is an issue...)

With the current lenses, here is my shooting tendency (not original I guess):

Landscapes: 12-20mm

Scenes : 20-32mm

Portrait / People: 25mm, 32mm, 45mm + Zoom

So, now the question. Do I really need GX85 or GX8 to improve stills IQ (like kids portraits and general everyday life scenes like kids running / playing... ) or with the two lenses I mentioned I can do it (with a bit of frustration) on the GM-1?

If switching, I know this had been discussed already and there is plenty of reviews but I am still wondering about the GX8 vs. GX85... The GX8 seems been forgotten and its price is now quite similar to the one of the GX85 (while providing weather sealing and tiltable viewfinder that attracts me a lot and the 20Mp sensor... )... The specs seems to say that the GX8 will have a longer life (I like also the weather sealing to evolve later with interesting outdoor lenses, prime tele and macro...).

Thanks for help!

Longan

(Background: I also looked a lot at Olympus OM-D EM-5 but it is more expensive and EM-10 but then the benefits are less clear and given what I read, I feed there is a benefit staying with one brand...)

Click to expand...

It sounds as if the shooting experience, and not the pics is the issue. I own the GM1, but it is not a primary camera, but my backup/second body to my GX7.

The two cameras you are looking at are both great cameras, but you kind of wish they had the best of each in them combined into one package, all at a great price. I am sure you have studied these two to death, so you know what I am talking about. Both are nice cameras, and in the end, the handling may be more important to you than anything else.

I would also consider, even though it is a different form factor, the G85. One of the few things that it does not have is the 20MP sensor, but it is weather sealed, which seems to be a desire, in addition to the latest focus system, IBIS, new soft shutter, 4K photo, etc.. On the other hand, the G85 does have the latest iteration of the 16 MP sensor without AA filter which yields a somewhat sharper (~10%) image than the sensor you have, and has the latest jpeg engine. It is also about the same size, though not the same shape as the two bodies you selected in size. I would seriously check out the size because anything will seem huge compared to the GM1. Ergonomically, and economically (bang for the buck) the G85 is a winner, even if it is not the same shape.

Check it out...camerasize to see.

http://camerasize.com/compact/#491.397,673.397,629.397,689.397,ha,t

You will get increased IQ, far better handling, the latest features, including weather sealing, except you will not get the 20MP sensor. In addition, it is one of the very few MFT cameras to receive a GOLD review from dpreview. But if you do research, almost everyone has good things to say about it.

If I were not forbidden to buy another camera, the G85 would be a real consideration, take it from one who started with a GH1, and then bought rangefinder styles ever since, GF1, GX1, GX7, GM1. The only good thing is that, aside from the GX7, every other camera was bought for $300 or less, usually used.

Longan said:

Hi everyone,

I am the owner of a GM-1 since 2014 (it was basically an upgrade from panasonic bridge). I find myself frustrated with the GM-1. I like the pics but the overall shooting experience is less good than with the bridge (main issues: 1. no viewfinder, 2. controls too small... like going crazy on manual focus on the 12-32mm). Also sometimes I feel that my pics are "softer" with the GM-1 than with the bridge... but that could be me I did not test since the bridge is out of order)

I have the Pana 12-32mm and the Pana 45-175mm. Now, I want to try primes in order to improve image quality. I am thinking about the 25mm 1.4 and the 42.5mm 1.7 (also want a macro and thinking about Oly. 60mm but that's something else and budget is an issue...)

With the current lenses, here is my shooting tendency (not original I guess):

Landscapes: 12-20mm

Scenes : 20-32mm

Portrait / People: 25mm, 32mm, 45mm + Zoom

So, now the question. Do I really need GX85 or GX8 to improve stills IQ (like kids portraits and general everyday life scenes like kids running / playing... ) or with the two lenses I mentioned I can do it (with a bit of frustration) on the GM-1?

If switching, I know this had been discussed already and there is plenty of reviews but I am still wondering about the GX8 vs. GX85... The GX8 seems been forgotten and its price is now quite similar to the one of the GX85 (while providing weather sealing and tiltable viewfinder that attracts me a lot and the 20Mp sensor... )... The specs seems to say that the GX8 will have a longer life (I like also the weather sealing to evolve later with interesting outdoor lenses, prime tele and macro...).

Thanks for help!

Longan

(Background: I also looked a lot at Olympus OM-D EM-5 but it is more expensive and EM-10 but then the benefits are less clear and given what I read, I feed there is a benefit staying with one brand...)

Click to expand...

Between your two choices I would recommend the GX8 over the GX85. You mentioned viewfinder - it doesn't get much better than the one in the GX8. The GX85 has one but not as good.

The GX8 has 20mp sensor with benefits at 100 ISO that you won't get with the GX85 and possibly with cropping detail. In my opinion also slightly better color rendtition - at least in raw files but thats in the eye of the beholder. The GX85 does have much better IBIS than the GX8 but at the focal lengths you usually shoot I don't think that would be a great advantage. As mentioned above, the G85 is also a very good choice, with a viewfinder almost as good as the GX8's. I have both the G85 and the GX8. If I could only have one I would keep the GX8 but that's just me. I like the button feel and layout a bit better. If you can get all 3 in hand to see how they feel and go from there. All 3 are very good cameras with slightly different strengths.

Thanks a lot for your answer.

windmillgolfer said:

I had the GM1 to provide Compact UWA capability when travelling (7-14mm). The 12-32mm was used otherwise, in a compact belt case. Yes, the controls are tiny but overall I liked the camera very much but changed to a GF7 for the tiltable screen.

Click to expand...

I have been too fast. I like the GM1 in many use cases, it is just that I am frustrated a bit too often (impossible to see what you shoot because of reflection and no viewfinder ; controls size, too much dependence on the touch screen). I configured the menus so it is "ok" but not as smooth / easy as I would like.

windmillgolfer said:

I'm a little surprised that you say you use manual focus. For everyday use in reasonable light, IMO, AF is far more reliable. Especially given the 12-32mm is stabilised. Have you considered that your soft images might be due to imprecise focus?

Click to expand...

Yes it is possible (so I am not implying that GM1 + 12-32mm cannot be sharp but rather that it is harder to get sharp pics in some situations -- than even with my bridge that you happened to own in the past DMC-FZ35 (DMC-FZ38)). I think I will be better at focusing with viewfinder and better / bigger controls. About manual focus, I do not know, sometimes the camera simply does not seem to able to focus where I want even if try different methods. This happens often in close-ups (so really prefer the 45-175mm for close-ups since it has a focus ring) and some situation when I want the focus on a weird places.

That said. I guess a more general / direct way to ask the question could be: To improve my portrait / daily life situations IQ (involving spontaneity, not always great light available and I never shot with flash), on what should be my priority from my starting point (let's say GM1 + 12-32mm) / which % would you affect to the following items?

- ?% work harder, if some ppl can get the best IQ from GM1+12-32mm, why not me?

- ?% lenses : in particular Pana 25mm, 1.4 (I thought the about 1.7 but I wanted a radical change) and Pana 42.5mm 1.7

- ?% body: GX8 / GX85 / O-MD EM 10 II which are basically at the same price where I am.

Thanks for your answers!

longan

windmillgolfer said:

The only time I used manual focus on the GM1 was with the Samyang 7.5mm and 7-14mm when shooting the Aurora Borealis in Sweden and stars in Bryce Canyon.

I have only one prime, the 25mm f1.7, a bargain price and great in challenging light.

--
Stuart
Latest uploads http://www.flickr.com/photos/dieselgolfer/
FZ330 images https://www.flickr.com/photos/dieselgolfer/albums/72157659823425652
TZ60 images https://www.flickr.com/photos/dieselgolfer/albums/72157642261079494
Aurora Borealis https://www.flickr.com/photos/dieselgolfer/albums/72157663549812064

Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply and for the suggestion. The G85 was on my watching list also but I am living in Taiwan currently and it does not seem that I can get it here (i cannot figure out whether they just named it differently here or it is simply not out yet). I should get a trip to Japan soon but I read that buying Panasonic bodies in Japan was not doable (because of japanese-only interface on the bodies sol there....)

I agree about the size... I know I am changing world. I plan to keep the GM1 for when I want to be "light". The camera size comparison is very useful. Thanks!

longan

Longan said:

The G85 was on my watching list also but I am living in Taiwan currently and it does not seem that I can get it here (i cannot figure out whether they just named it differently here or it is simply not out yet).

Click to expand...

Search around a bit. G85 is the US name; In Europe it's G80 (except G81 in Germany). I heard it's called G8 in Japan. Could be still something else where you live.

Longan said:

Thanks for your reply and for the suggestion. The G85 was on my watching list also but I am living in Taiwan currently and it does not seem that I can get it here (i cannot figure out whether they just named it differently here or it is simply not out yet). I should get a trip to Japan soon but I read that buying Panasonic bodies in Japan was not doable (because of japanese-only interface on the bodies sol there....)

I agree about the size... I know I am changing world. I plan to keep the GM1 for when I want to be "light". The camera size comparison is very useful. Thanks!

longan

Click to expand...

There is also the lcd type preference. I prefer not to have the articulating screen of the GX8 and G85 but am happy with the tilt of the GX85 or the fixed of the GM series. The GX8 and G85 have large evf units (adding bulk) whereas the GM5 (just about no longer available) and GX85 have smaller evf units which bother some but I personally find no trouble in using.

Panasonic has also introduced multiple names for certain models which is confusing and also even dfferent models have similar names and are easily confused.

I think it boils down to whether you need an evf (I think that you do) or a better lens for the GM1 which will undoubtedly help. Much of your problems may relate to the difficulties of using the lcd on the GM1 in bright outdoor light situations. I have a few GM1 bodies and I really like them but made my own viewfinder substitute which I called the VEfinder. But now also have other Panasonic bodies with evf units and this lessens my need to use a GM1 in bright outdoor light.

The newer 16Mb sensors don't have AA filters and that improves some aspects of the images caught but there should be no real reason why the same 16Mb sensor on the GM1 with AA filter could be considered deficient.

--
Tom Caldwell

Go with the GX8. Ergonomics seem to be your biggest issue and the GX8 excels in this regard.

Hi,

I've used the gx85,gx8 and g80/85. As far as image quality, I doubt that anyone can tell the difference between the 3.

To me it's all about how the camera feels in your hands , how controls dials and buttons meet your needs etc.

We have a few camera rental places here in the US. I rented the gx 8 and gx85 for a weekend. I bought the former because it's larger and was easier to use for me, I also like the flip out screen and EVF more. I just got the g80/85 as a 2nd body and like it the most.. because the shape is more like the DLRs I used in the past. I use a long telephtomand like the EVF in the center rather than on the left side.

I suggest that you find a way to spend some time with the cameras before deciding, at least go to a bricks and mortar store like our Best Buy where you can handle each camera.

Good luck

Les

Longan said:

Hi everyone,

I am the owner of a GM-1 since 2014 (it was basically an upgrade from panasonic bridge). I find myself frustrated with the GM-1. I like the pics but the overall shooting experience is less good than with the bridge (main issues: 1. no viewfinder, 2. controls too small... like going crazy on manual focus on the 12-32mm). Also sometimes I feel that my pics are "softer" with the GM-1 than with the bridge... but that could be me I did not test since the bridge is out of order)

I have the Pana 12-32mm and the Pana 45-175mm. Now, I want to try primes in order to improve image quality. I am thinking about the 25mm 1.4 and the 42.5mm 1.7 (also want a macro and thinking about Oly. 60mm but that's something else and budget is an issue...)

With the current lenses, here is my shooting tendency (not original I guess):

Landscapes: 12-20mm

Scenes : 20-32mm

Portrait / People: 25mm, 32mm, 45mm + Zoom

So, now the question. Do I really need GX85 or GX8 to improve stills IQ (like kids portraits and general everyday life scenes like kids running / playing... ) or with the two lenses I mentioned I can do it (with a bit of frustration) on the GM-1?

Click to expand...

Well, the GX85 and G85 are going to have the same sensor as your GM1, albeit with no AA filter, so the overall image quality is going to be in the same ballpark. The GX8 has a higher resolution sensor, and does better in terms of tonal and color gradation, but whether or not you notice the difference is going to depend a little on what you shoot. For landscape and nature work, I find the difference easily visible, but if you do a lot of urban or street shooting, I don't know that you would necessarily see that much difference (except in terms of resolution and somewhat in color rendition).

Where I do see a big difference is when I use the better lenses, even on my GM5 (I have a GX8 and GM5). My personal suggestion would be to consider the Panasonic 12-35mm f2.8 lens (which really brings out the best in my GM5) for your landscape work, and also the 25mm f1.4, which is just a wonderful lens, and also will enable you to do much more work in lower light with better results than either of the lenses you are using now. I haven't used the 42.5, so I can't tell you anything about it, but many people who have, have liked it a great deal, and it's reasonably priced to boot.

Longan said:

If switching, I know this had been discussed already and there is plenty of reviews but I am still wondering about the GX8 vs. GX85... The GX8 seems been forgotten and its price is now quite similar to the one of the GX85 (while providing weather sealing and tiltable viewfinder that attracts me a lot and the 20Mp sensor... )... The specs seems to say that the GX8 will have a longer life (I like also the weather sealing to evolve later with interesting outdoor lenses, prime tele and macro...).

Click to expand...

If you have an option to try these cameras out in person, you should pick the one that sits in your hand the best. I am quite fond of my GX8, and highly recommend it; it would complement your GM1 very nicely (and you can save the GM1 for when you want to go very compact, or as a second body with a different lens when lens changes would be inconvenient).
I'd go for the GX8 and a prime or two (or the 12-35mm zoom and a prime), and I think you'd really be able to notice the difference. If you want to save a few $, you could just buy one of the lenses first and see if that made a difference for you even on the GM1....and you will still be able to use the lenses on future bodies if you decide to wait on them for the moment.

-J

My short story:

When GM1 was out, later the GM5, I was excited and wished to get one to replace my GF3 as my perfect (full spec, GF3 is an entry model and outdated) backup. Stepped into a Pany showroom, played with GM5... OMG, despite of my relatively small Asian adult size hand, and could control the tiny GF3 well, I didn't know how to co-ordinate my eye (evf), fingers and thumb on shutter/fn buttons etc on GM5... Finally I realized it is not my cup of tea and came out empty hand.

Longan said:

Thanks a lot for your answer.

Longan said:

I had the GM1 to provide Compact UWA capability when travelling (7-14mm). The 12-32mm was used otherwise, in a compact belt case. Yes, the controls are tiny but overall I liked the camera very much but changed to a GF7 for the tiltable screen.

Click to expand...

I have been too fast. I like the GM1 in many use cases, it is just that I am frustrated a bit too often (impossible to see what you shoot because of reflection and no viewfinder ; controls size, too much dependence on the touch screen). I configured the menus so it is "ok" but not as smooth / easy as I would like.

Click to expand...

Evf is always a plus, not only on easier viewing under good lighting condition, but also help in stability.

Longan said:

Longan said:

I'm a little surprised that you say you use manual focus. For everyday use in reasonable light, IMO, AF is far more reliable. Especially given the 12-32mm is stabilised. Have you considered that your soft images might be due to imprecise focus?

Click to expand...

Yes it is possible (so I am not implying that GM1 + 12-32mm cannot be sharp but rather that it is harder to get sharp pics in some situations -- than even with my bridge that you happened to own in the past DMC-FZ35 (DMC-FZ38)).

Click to expand...

My wife also had a FZ28 (FZ5 and my FZ30 before that) before moving on to M43. When we first used my GF3 with her 14-140 M2, she was shock on the IQ improvement, speed of operation...

Regarding 12-32, IMHO my copy is a reasonable quality kit zoom in a low price tag. Under good lighting it AFs fast and sharp especially at the center. Under poor lighting it might misbehave and AF confirmation (on GX85) not reliable. Might you have stepped onto the weakest link of the lens making you frustrated? I was so unhappy with mine and took out the retired 14-45 for more sure result. Got 12-35 f/2.8 at the end. It is now downgraded to my compact setup for non serious shooting.

Longan said:

I think I will be better at focusing with viewfinder and better / bigger controls. About manual focus, I do not know, sometimes the camera simply does not seem to able to focus where I want even if try different methods. This happens often in close-ups (so really prefer the 45-175mm for close-ups since it has a focus ring) and some situation when I want the focus on a weird places.

Click to expand...

As said, the tiny GMs are not for everyone. At least not me. I am happy to play around small bodies (so no dslr forme) but still find GMs too small for my sort of fast shooting (with full manual control).

The smaller size body and lens would also compromise on the stability (on Dual IS of GX85, I find the larger and heavier 12-35 f/2.8 can offer me 1 extra stop of stabilisation than the tiny 12-32). Combined with no evf, it might result higher % of soft shots (shooter dependent).

Longan said:

That said. I guess a more general / direct way to ask the question could be: To improve my portrait / daily life situations IQ (involving spontaneity, not always great light available and I never shot with flash), on what should be my priority from my starting point (let's say GM1 + 12-32mm) / which % would you affect to the following items?

- ?% work harder, if some ppl can get the best IQ from GM1+12-32mm, why not me?

Click to expand...

GMs are not the cup of tea for everyone.

Longan said:

- ?% lenses : in particular Pana 25mm, 1.4 (I thought the about 1.7 but I wanted a radical change) and Pana 42.5mm 1.7

Click to expand...

12-32 is good as a low cost kit zoom. But must have to lower our expectation on it.

If you have no preference on prime/zoom, get the prime would of course improve your work (but mind the compromise due to tiny design of GM) on their low lighting advantage.

But if you do not do low lighting shooting a lot, don't need the shadow DoF and are also a zoom guy, you might need considerably period of time to get use to the fixed focal length. 14-140 M2 and likely also the 12-60 f/3.5-5.6 might be a low cost, give you all the convenience of a zoom, as well as IQ comparable to prime at similar f/stops.

Longan said:

- ?% body: GX8 / GX85 / O-MD EM 10 II which are basically at the same price where I am.

Click to expand...

GX8 is of higher spec, but just launched too earlier before having the latest standard feature of Pany (shutterstock free new shutter, IBIS, stabilized video... etc). And GX8 is considerably heavier and larger than GX85... (No comment on Oly body.)

In my city GX8 and GX85 (in fact G85 is just US$100+ more) are also in similar price. If I buy one today, I would still buy GX85 for the size and better feature.

Longan said:

Thanks for your answers!

longan

Longan said:

The only time I used manual focus on the GM1 was with the Samyang 7.5mm and 7-14mm when shooting the Aurora Borealis in Sweden and stars in Bryce Canyon.

I have only one prime, the 25mm f1.7, a bargain price and great in challenging light.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

jalywol said:

I'd go for the GX8 and a prime or two (or the 12-35mm zoom and a prime), and I think you'd really be able to notice the difference. If you want to save a few $, you could just buy one of the lenses first and see if that made a difference for you even on the GM1....and you will still be able to use the lenses on future bodies if you decide to wait on them for the moment.

Click to expand...

Thanks, I think that's more or less what I will do. Now get the 25mm (and perhaps the 42.5mm). Experiment a little bit with them on the GM1 and take a little more time to try / decide on the body... I am also really tempted by the GX8 (although perhaps a bit overkilling) because it seems to be such a great bargain these days for a weather sealed camera (In fact, I find it too good to be true at about 715 USD... I have read about the SS issue but it also seems that there is quite a big crowd happy of the GX8)

Thanks everyone for nice opinions and advise,

longan

It might be possible to better answer your question on improvement with your existing GM1 + 12-32mm if you posted a couple of example shots. The GM1 is not everyone's cup of tea, some hate it because they can't get comfortable with the size/operation, others love it. Although I changed my GM1 for the GF7, I do miss the quality feel and focus switch (AFS/AFC/MF). Using an EVF can certainly help with stability and framing, as well days avoiding reflections. The clarity/quality of recent EVF is excellent, even for spectacle wearers like me.

I could live with a simple tilting screen (like GF7's) but prefer the fully articulated screen as on my FZ330 and G80. However, it is the feel in the hand that set me on the G6 > G7 > G80 path when starting on M43, rather than the GX7.. Weather sealing is a big plus now too. So, if you do buy a G series, try before you buy. Another factor that might influence your upgrade/lens decision is whether or not buying a new body in a package with a lens or lenses is cheaper than buying a prime for the GM1 and then a GX body.

just to return to improvement. What focus and metering to you use? I use almost exclusively spot focus ( which might be moved using the touchscreen) and centre weighted metering. What do you use?

Longan said:

Hi everyone,

I am the owner of a GM-1 since 2014 (it was basically an upgrade from panasonic bridge). I find myself frustrated with the GM-1. I like the pics but the overall shooting experience is less good than with the bridge (main issues: 1. no viewfinder, 2. controls too small... like going crazy on manual focus on the 12-32mm). Also sometimes I feel that my pics are "softer" with the GM-1 than with the bridge... but that could be me I did not test since the bridge is out of order)

Click to expand...

I can understand your concern as 3 years ago I was also coming from a bridge camera to the m43 system. The truth is that m43 and generally ILC systems can offer considerably higher IQ but need:

1) more time from the user to learn the system,

2) more time from the user to actually shoot the subject (set the aperture, speed etc if not in Auto mode) and

3) more money to invest in good glass (lenses).

For getting the most out of your camera's IQ, there are 4 things I have realized are important:

1) Photography skills. The best photographer can get great photos even with a one-use paper camera...

2) Subject (travelling, portraits). My experience is that to get nice photos you have to be out travelling (one day, many days), or in events (exhibitions, party, festivals etc), or shooting interesting looking people (e.g. Russian models ) and generally be out of your home.

2) Glass (lens). From a technical perspective, I think lens quality is the most important. This is one of the reasons you can see great photos with an FZ300 and mediocre photos even with APSC cameras. A fast and sharp lens will allow to use lower ISO and nicer bokeh isolating your subject.

3) Sensor. same as above, especially for the noise level at low light

4) Body. A good camera body with good ergonomics will allow you to use it more and may give some more features like WR or 4K.

Longan said:

I have the Pana 12-32mm and the Pana 45-175mm. Now, I want to try primes in order to improve image quality. I am thinking about the 25mm 1.4 and the 42.5mm 1.7 (also want a macro and thinking about Oly. 60mm but that's something else and budget is an issue...)

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I think your zoom lenses are good for day/normal light photograhy. I would only get the 42.5/1.7 for low light and portrait. Personally I ordered a used Sigma 60/2.8 from Amazon warehouse which was far cheaper than both the Oly and the Panasonic.

Longan said:

With the current lenses, here is my shooting tendency (not original I guess):

Landscapes: 12-20mm

Scenes : 20-32mm

Portrait / People: 25mm, 32mm, 45mm + Zoom

So, now the question. Do I really need GX85 or GX8 to improve stills IQ (like kids portraits and general everyday life scenes like kids running / playing... ) or with the two lenses I mentioned I can do it (with a bit of frustration) on the GM-1?

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I have the GX8 which is growing to be a great camera especially outdoors in harsh weather, but also have the smaller sensor P&S Panasonic LX10. Both produce great results for my taste. As I said before, the camera body is the last thing that affects IQ, so I am not sure if this is your problem. A different body might have better ergonomics for you and make you use it more, but regarding the IQ, differences will not be big...

Longan said:

If switching, I know this had been discussed already and there is plenty of reviews but I am still wondering about the GX8 vs. GX85... The GX8 seems been forgotten and its price is now quite similar to the one of the GX85 (while providing weather sealing and tiltable viewfinder that attracts me a lot and the 20Mp sensor... )... The specs seems to say that the GX8 will have a longer life (I like also the weather sealing to evolve later with interesting outdoor lenses, prime tele and macro...).

Thanks for help!

Longan

(Background: I also looked a lot at Olympus OM-D EM-5 but it is more expensive and EM-10 but then the benefits are less clear and given what I read, I feed there is a benefit staying with one brand...)

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All the cameras you mention are great, but maybe you have to move a step back and ask yourself whether you want an ILC or a P&S system. Right now, with the advent of the 1" sensor, there are some great P&S cameras which might suit you better:

Panasonic FZ1000/2000

Panasonic LX10

Sony RX10 II/III

Sony RX100

All of the above get great reviews, most have very good lenses and can get nice photos straight out of the box.

Another thing you have to realize is that most of the nice photos you see here or in other sites, are also post processed in software, so if you want to improve the IQ, you may have to spend some time also in the software.

Another GX8 and GM5 shooter that recommends the GX8.

If you are thinking of a 42.5mm AND an Olympus 60mm macro, why not consider the Panasonic Leica 45mm 2.8 macro and kill two birds with one high quality stone?

F.

FrankS009 said:

If you are thinking of a 42.5mm AND an Olympus 60mm macro, why not consider the Panasonic Leica 45mm 2.8 macro and kill two birds with one high quality stone?

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Thanks for the answer

Well, that was my original plan (of having less lenses but of higher quality) but the dpreview of the 45mm macro states that it is disappointing for other uses than macro... So I thought that I will be better at splitting between the weather sealed (wich is nice specially for macro I think) 60mm and the true "people" lens (for me), the 42.5mm which is faster...

longan

FrankS009 said:

F.

--
"We shoot the things that move us in ways that will move others." David duChemin

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windmillgolfer said:

It might be possible to better answer your question on improvement with your existing GM1 + 12-32mm if you posted a couple of example shots.

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Thanks for suggesting. I will post some pics.

windmillgolfer said:

The GM1 is not everyone's cup of tea, some hate it because they can't get comfortable with the size/operation, others love it.

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windmillgolfer said:

Although I changed my GM1 for the GF7, I do miss the quality feel and focus switch (AFS/AFC/MF). Using an EVF can certainly help with stability and framing, as well days avoiding reflections. The clarity/quality of recent EVF is excellent, even for spectacle wearers like me.

I could live with a simple tilting screen (like GF7's) but prefer the fully articulated screen as on my FZ330 and G80. However, it is the feel in the hand that set me on the G6 > G7 > G80 path when starting on M43, rather than the GX7.. Weather sealing is a big plus now too. So, if you do buy a G series, try before you buy. Another factor that might influence your upgrade/lens decision is whether or not buying a new body in a package with a lens or lenses is cheaper than buying a prime for the GM1 and then a GX body.

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windmillgolfer said:

just to return to improvement. What focus and metering to you use? I use almost exclusively spot focus ( which might be moved using the touchscreen) and centre weighted metering. What do you use?

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I mostly use spot (pinpoint) focus and multi-metering. But I do switch regularly to manual focus (mostly for plants / forest scenes where the AF get lots in the different distances of background...)... After reading here about the AF tracking, I tried to use it again but well... I think that I prefer spot focus.

windmillgolfer said:

--
Stuart
Latest uploads http://www.flickr.com/photos/dieselgolfer/
FZ330 images https://www.flickr.com/photos/dieselgolfer/albums/72157659823425652
TZ60 images https://www.flickr.com/photos/dieselgolfer/albums/72157642261079494
Aurora Borealis https://www.flickr.com/photos/dieselgolfer/albums/72157663549812064

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I have a PL45mm 2.8, and I don't find it disappointing for other uses at all, in fact I don't use it for macro.

It is good for landscapes and for portraits. A very sharp lens, particularly in the centre. Nice rendering, to my eye,

Here is Gord the apple guy from the market.

F.









--
"We shoot the things that move us in ways that will move others." David duChemin