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Camera/lens recommendations for photographing ancient manuscripts?

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sacklunch

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Greetings!

I am traveling to various places abroad this upcoming summer for my dissertation and am in need of a camera and lens/es. I'll note up front that while I am fairly tech savvy, I do not have a lot of experience with digital cameras. My needs are, in short:

1) I will only be using this camera for capturing images of ancient manuscripts: paper (papyrus) and leather (animal skin) with (mostly) black metallic ink. The sizes of the manuscripts vary (hence, I assume, the need for different lenses). Some are "rolls" while others are codices (think of our modern book): the smallest scraps will be no bigger than an iphone 6, while the largest surface area I will need to capture should be no more than 1 foot in height/width.

2) I am photographing these manuscripts with the hope of capturing their true dimensions; thus I need something that will as best as possible not warp/distort their dimensions (I will have, e.g., rulers in some pictures for future measurements) nor their color. Though the ability to bring out faded ink in some pieces would be ideal (if this is even possible outside of a IR camera).

3) I am photographing close up (basements of libraries in small-ish rooms). I have some flexibility, but I will likely have to set up the camera on a tripod and capture from above.

4) I am only photographing stationary objects (manuscripts); I will never use this camera for anything else.

5) I do not need to enlarge these photos in the future; but the ability to zoom closely when on a pc to analyze the handwriting would be most ideal.

5) since I will be traveling abroad, some measure of compactness is ideal; though I am not beholden to this.

I'm sure I am forgetting other crucial points. But, please, if I can provide any further information, please ask!

thank you!!!
 
The most important thing you forgot to mention: your budget! I would likely recommend a camera with as much dynamic range and high ISO performance as you can afford (since I would guess that you will be in some less-than-ideal lighting situations) and a good medium-to-wide prime lens for optimal corner to corner sharpness.
 
a model in this range should be able to meet your requirements, make sure you get a camera with an aperture bigger than f 2.8 and away you'll go.
 
Use a tripod so you can get the sharpest shots at the lowest ISO. Use a 2 second delay or a remote trigger. Use live view mode and manual focus as sharp as you can. Strive to get an even lighting across the surface and no tripod leg shadows in the way.
 
sacklunch said:
2) I am photographing these manuscripts with the hope of capturing their true dimensions; thus I need something that will as best as possible not warp/distort their dimensions (I will have, e.g., rulers in some pictures for future measurements)
Click to expand...
I would recommend a macro lens; they have low distortion, good resolution at close-up distances, and low field curvature. Some allow to read or even set the reproduction ratio so that matching items can be photographed at the same scale (I would still include a ruler).
 
Why care about aperture, when OP will be using a tripod and surely doesn't want a narrow DOF?

It's a typical case where max aperture of the lens doesn't matter...
 
I wait for details about your budget, but to start with, I strongly recommend a camera with focus peaking, so you can use MF and not be bothered by low light.

For instance, something like a an Olypus Pen F with 12-40mm should be perfect for your work, if it fits in you budget of course.
 
You need to learn some stuff about photography before you plonk down your money, and a lot depends on what you're gonna do with these images, and how critical they are.

I'd preface this by saying a good modern camera phone is quite awesome for this. First, easy to pack, and some places just do not like someone setting up tripods and other equipment with their precious documents.

Second, they are wide angle and easily manipulated; it's often quite difficult to get in position directly above a document to photograph it, especially with just a tripod. Plus they can get quite close.

Third, you mention getting the proportions right. Of course no photo does that automatically; you'll always need a reference. But you also need to take into account the fact that the pages might not be flat. Ideally you use something to flatten pages, but again this might not be possible. A very nice feature of some smartphone apps is the ability to correct such perspective errors as you're standing there; look at Prizmo, Jot Not, etc. Otherwise you need good software on your desktop, and hoping you got it right when you shot it.

If you do go with a real camera, I agree that a live view is quite nice in this scenario. And a tilt screen or even a wifi to smartphone connection, since the viewfinder may be inaccessible. Tethered shooting can be ideal.

And make sure to get a card to use to set WB; if you're inside there may be all kinds of artificial and bounced light that affects color. Ideally you'd also use something to color calibrate the camera too, like Xrite's Passport.
 
My apologies on not listing a very important point...my budget!

I'd like to keep it between 1500-2000 usd.
 
robgendreau said:
You need to learn some stuff about photography before you plonk down your money, and a lot depends on what you're gonna do with these images, and how critical they are.

I'd preface this by saying a good modern camera phone is quite awesome for this. First, easy to pack, and some places just do not like someone setting up tripods and other equipment with their precious documents.

Second, they are wide angle and easily manipulated; it's often quite difficult to get in position directly above a document to photograph it, especially with just a tripod. Plus they can get quite close.

Third, you mention getting the proportions right. Of course no photo does that automatically; you'll always need a reference. But you also need to take into account the fact that the pages might not be flat. Ideally you use something to flatten pages, but again this might not be possible. A very nice feature of some smartphone apps is the ability to correct such perspective errors as you're standing there; look at Prizmo, Jot Not, etc. Otherwise you need good software on your desktop, and hoping you got it right when you shot it.

If you do go with a real camera, I agree that a live view is quite nice in this scenario. And a tilt screen or even a wifi to smartphone connection, since the viewfinder may be inaccessible. Tethered shooting can be ideal.

And make sure to get a card to use to set WB; if you're inside there may be all kinds of artificial and bounced light that affects color. Ideally you'd also use something to color calibrate the camera too, like Xrite's Passport.

--
“Art is not what you see, but what you make others see.”
— Edgar Degas
Click to expand...
Many thanks for your detailed reply! I'll note that while not always the case, many ancient books no longer have their original bindings; thus I will be photographing flat 'loose leaves'. Most ancient paper is 'mounted' flat in a a kind of glass case in the museum/university/collection it is held in for preservation. I should have mentioned this in the original posting; so thanks for bringing it up!

Is there a website and/or book(s) that you recommend for learning more about some of the lighting features you describe?

Also, as for reference in the photos: yes, I plan to use several rulers alongside the leaves (though I will be doing most of my measurements on site with a notebook). The photos are for later reference and for cataloging graphic features (i.e. not the text per se, but symbols and so on--most of these are in ancient Greek if you are curious).

Finally, now that I have listed a price range, if any of you would be so kind as to recommend specific cameras/lenses, I would be most grateful. As is I think fairly obvious, I am not a camera person. That said, I am not looking for an expensive camera unless I need an expensive camera. I understand the hesitation in some of the responses--most people, I gather, do not need expensive cameras. If you do not think I need one, then please say so and recommend something. But, if my purposes--procuring high quality photos of ancient paper and leather--demand it, even with a learning curve on my part, then please, by all means, suggest something that will do the job adequately.

thank you!!
 
sacklunch said:
Greetings!

I am traveling to various places abroad this upcoming summer for my dissertation and am in need of a camera and lens/es. I'll note up front that while I am fairly tech savvy, I do not have a lot of experience with digital cameras. My needs are, in short:

1) I will only be using this camera for capturing images of ancient manuscripts: paper (papyrus) and leather (animal skin) with (mostly) black metallic ink. The sizes of the manuscripts vary (hence, I assume, the need for different lenses). Some are "rolls" while others are codices (think of our modern book): the smallest scraps will be no bigger than an iphone 6, while the largest surface area I will need to capture should be no more than 1 foot in height/width.

2) I am photographing these manuscripts with the hope of capturing their true dimensions; thus I need something that will as best as possible not warp/distort their dimensions (I will have, e.g., rulers in some pictures for future measurements) nor their color. Though the ability to bring out faded ink in some pieces would be ideal (if this is even possible outside of a IR camera).

3) I am photographing close up (basements of libraries in small-ish rooms). I have some flexibility, but I will likely have to set up the camera on a tripod and capture from above.

4) I am only photographing stationary objects (manuscripts); I will never use this camera for anything else.

5) I do not need to enlarge these photos in the future; but the ability to zoom closely when on a pc to analyze the handwriting would be most ideal.

5) since I will be traveling abroad, some measure of compactness is ideal; though I am not beholden to this.

I'm sure I am forgetting other crucial points. But, please, if I can provide any further information, please ask!

thank you!!!
Click to expand...
$1500-2000 is a good budget for your needs. You likely won't need all of it.

In all honesty, you probably could use a 1" sensor camera (like the Sony RX-100 series) for most of your uses. My only concern is the low light situations you might find yourself in. If you are often in dim rooms, a larger sensor, like m43s or APS-C, will give you more flexibility. Most of the things that separate these cameras and make one better than another become largely irrevelant in your case...you don't need video, fast autofocus, or exceptionally small size. Virtually any of them will work for you. Check out the DPreview's Buying Guide, then go into a store and see what feels best in hand.

I can give you an example of what I would use if I were in your situation. I would probably go with the Sony a6000 ($550) + Sigma 19 2.8 ($200) + Sony 50 2.8 Macro ($500.)

The a6000 is a mirrorless camera, which means it's fairly small and compact. It has a fantastic sensor for low light scenarios. It can sync with your smart phone to either take photos using your phone as a remote or to just send the jpegs straight over.

The Sigma 19 is small, light, and sharp, and it's a fairly wide angle lens so you won't need to be very far away.

The 50mm macro is an option you might not be interested in, but I thought I'd mention it. Macro lenses are designed for taking very close-up photos of small objects. If there are minuscule details that you want to take a photo of, a macro lens is the best tool for the job. There's a bit of a learning curve with them, but it could yield some incredible results.

All of the interchangeable lens cameras offer similar lenses, so it's simply a matter of finding the one you prefer to use.
 
Cherylynne1 said:
I can give you an example of what I would use if I were in your situation. I would probably go with the Sony a6000 ($550) + Sigma 19 2.8 ($200) + Sony 50 2.8 Macro ($500.)
Click to expand...
that's the right idea... an a6000 plus an old 50/2.8-3.5 manual focus macro, because you don't need to use af for this, and it's much cheaper.

still need money for a good tripod, remote trigger, and some portable lighting, or perhaps a couple of flashes.

--
dan
 
Last edited:
Cherylynne1 said:
sacklunch said:
Greetings!

I am traveling to various places abroad this upcoming summer for my dissertation and am in need of a camera and lens/es. I'll note up front that while I am fairly tech savvy, I do not have a lot of experience with digital cameras. My needs are, in short:

1) I will only be using this camera for capturing images of ancient manuscripts: paper (papyrus) and leather (animal skin) with (mostly) black metallic ink. The sizes of the manuscripts vary (hence, I assume, the need for different lenses). Some are "rolls" while others are codices (think of our modern book): the smallest scraps will be no bigger than an iphone 6, while the largest surface area I will need to capture should be no more than 1 foot in height/width.

2) I am photographing these manuscripts with the hope of capturing their true dimensions; thus I need something that will as best as possible not warp/distort their dimensions (I will have, e.g., rulers in some pictures for future measurements) nor their color. Though the ability to bring out faded ink in some pieces would be ideal (if this is even possible outside of a IR camera).

3) I am photographing close up (basements of libraries in small-ish rooms). I have some flexibility, but I will likely have to set up the camera on a tripod and capture from above.

4) I am only photographing stationary objects (manuscripts); I will never use this camera for anything else.

5) I do not need to enlarge these photos in the future; but the ability to zoom closely when on a pc to analyze the handwriting would be most ideal.

5) since I will be traveling abroad, some measure of compactness is ideal; though I am not beholden to this.

I'm sure I am forgetting other crucial points. But, please, if I can provide any further information, please ask!

thank you!!!
Click to expand...
$1500-2000 is a good budget for your needs. You likely won't need all of it.

In all honesty, you probably could use a 1" sensor camera (like the Sony RX-100 series) for most of your uses. My only concern is the low light situations you might find yourself in. If you are often in dim rooms, a larger sensor, like m43s or APS-C, will give you more flexibility. Most of the things that separate these cameras and make one better than another become largely irrevelant in your case...you don't need video, fast autofocus, or exceptionally small size. Virtually any of them will work for you. Check out the DPreview's Buying Guide, then go into a store and see what feels best in hand.

I can give you an example of what I would use if I were in your situation. I would probably go with the Sony a6000 ($550) + Sigma 19 2.8 ($200) + Sony 50 2.8 Macro ($500.)

The a6000 is a mirrorless camera, which means it's fairly small and compact. It has a fantastic sensor for low light scenarios. It can sync with your smart phone to either take photos using your phone as a remote or to just send the jpegs straight over.

The Sigma 19 is small, light, and sharp, and it's a fairly wide angle lens so you won't need to be very far away.

The 50mm macro is an option you might not be interested in, but I thought I'd mention it. Macro lenses are designed for taking very close-up photos of small objects. If there are minuscule details that you want to take a photo of, a macro lens is the best tool for the job. There's a bit of a learning curve with them, but it could yield some incredible results.

All of the interchangeable lens cameras offer similar lenses, so it's simply a matter of finding the one you prefer to use.
Click to expand...
Thank you very much for the detailed response. A couple follow ups.

Do you think I would benefit from adding in a 100mm macro lens?

Do you or anyone else have recommendations for tripods and lighting?

thank you all!!!
 
sacklunch said:
Cherylynne1 said:
sacklunch said:
Greetings!

I am traveling to various places abroad this upcoming summer for my dissertation and am in need of a camera and lens/es. I'll note up front that while I am fairly tech savvy, I do not have a lot of experience with digital cameras. My needs are, in short:

1) I will only be using this camera for capturing images of ancient manuscripts: paper (papyrus) and leather (animal skin) with (mostly) black metallic ink. The sizes of the manuscripts vary (hence, I assume, the need for different lenses). Some are "rolls" while others are codices (think of our modern book): the smallest scraps will be no bigger than an iphone 6, while the largest surface area I will need to capture should be no more than 1 foot in height/width.

2) I am photographing these manuscripts with the hope of capturing their true dimensions; thus I need something that will as best as possible not warp/distort their dimensions (I will have, e.g., rulers in some pictures for future measurements) nor their color. Though the ability to bring out faded ink in some pieces would be ideal (if this is even possible outside of a IR camera).

3) I am photographing close up (basements of libraries in small-ish rooms). I have some flexibility, but I will likely have to set up the camera on a tripod and capture from above.

4) I am only photographing stationary objects (manuscripts); I will never use this camera for anything else.

5) I do not need to enlarge these photos in the future; but the ability to zoom closely when on a pc to analyze the handwriting would be most ideal.

5) since I will be traveling abroad, some measure of compactness is ideal; though I am not beholden to this.

I'm sure I am forgetting other crucial points. But, please, if I can provide any further information, please ask!

thank you!!!
Click to expand...
$1500-2000 is a good budget for your needs. You likely won't need all of it.

In all honesty, you probably could use a 1" sensor camera (like the Sony RX-100 series) for most of your uses. My only concern is the low light situations you might find yourself in. If you are often in dim rooms, a larger sensor, like m43s or APS-C, will give you more flexibility. Most of the things that separate these cameras and make one better than another become largely irrevelant in your case...you don't need video, fast autofocus, or exceptionally small size. Virtually any of them will work for you. Check out the DPreview's Buying Guide, then go into a store and see what feels best in hand.

I can give you an example of what I would use if I were in your situation. I would probably go with the Sony a6000 ($550) + Sigma 19 2.8 ($200) + Sony 50 2.8 Macro ($500.)

The a6000 is a mirrorless camera, which means it's fairly small and compact. It has a fantastic sensor for low light scenarios. It can sync with your smart phone to either take photos using your phone as a remote or to just send the jpegs straight over.

The Sigma 19 is small, light, and sharp, and it's a fairly wide angle lens so you won't need to be very far away.

The 50mm macro is an option you might not be interested in, but I thought I'd mention it. Macro lenses are designed for taking very close-up photos of small objects. If there are minuscule details that you want to take a photo of, a macro lens is the best tool for the job. There's a bit of a learning curve with them, but it could yield some incredible results.

All of the interchangeable lens cameras offer similar lenses, so it's simply a matter of finding the one you prefer to use.
Click to expand...
Thank you very much for the detailed response. A couple follow ups.

Do you think I would benefit from adding in a 100mm macro lens?

Do you or anyone else have recommendations for tripods and lighting?

thank you all!!!
Click to expand...
100mm macro lens vs 50mm macro lens really only makes a difference in how far away you stand from the object. 100mm is much more "zoomed in." If you were taking photos of bugs or something that gets spooked easily, then yes, the 100mm (or 90mm in Sony's case) would be the better choice. But in this scenario, 50mm would be fine.

I'm not an expert on tripods. I have a Manfrotto that I'm very happy with, I believe it's a 294? They make excellent products. It has a tilting center column that would likely be very helpful for your use. But it is fairly large and heavy, so you might want to look at a smaller one. Just don't go cheap...you do NOT want to load $1000 worth of equipment on top of a $20 tripod from Walmart.

For lighting, I'll again answer for Sony and let the others answer for their respective brands. My favorite flash is the HVL-f32m. It's small and light and fits well with the a6000, but has the ability to tilt and bounce off the walls or ceiling. Learning lighting in your situation will take some practice...if they're all encased in glass, you'll need to learn how to light without causing reflections. I'm a huge advocate of flash, but even I would have some trepidation about using it in your circumstances. If you can learn how, though, it could be very beneficial.

Something else just occurred to me as I looked at my prior recommendations. You could actually replace both the Sigma 19 and the 50 2.8 with the Zeiss 24 1.8. It has an even wider aperture than the others. It also has near macro ability because it can focus as close as 6". Look up the reviews on it, it's a stellar lens and could be the perfect one lens solution for you.
 
A 100 mm macro lens will have a fairly long working distance. I have a 55 mm macro and for a 1:10 scale image, say for a large page (nominally 24 x 36 cm on a full-frame camera), it would be shooting at 70 cm focus distance (working distance from the front of the lens about 12-15 cm less). For a small detail at say 1:2 magnification (something a few cm across) the focus distance would be about 20 cm for this lens).

A 100 mm macro would be more than a meter from a full page shot. The advice for a +/- 50 mm macro was the best compromise I believe; I don't think you want to be further away than that. On a crop sensor camera a 30-45 mm macro would be a good choice.
 
Cherylynne1 said:
The most important thing you forgot to mention: your budget! I would likely recommend a camera with as much dynamic range and high ISO performance as you can afford (since I would guess that you will be in some less-than-ideal lighting situations) and a good medium-to-wide prime lens for optimal corner to corner sharpness.
Click to expand...
If s/he's using a tripod, he can shoot at base ISO, so extreme high-ISO performance is not needed. As for dynamic range, most any ILC has more than enough for capturing print on paper, as the DR of the subject material is almost certainly going to be much less than that of the camera.

A wide lens is likely to introduce some distortion and have less than optimal corner sharpness (although many MFT wides are exemplary). I'd recommend a macro lens, perhaps two of "normal" and short tele focal lengths, as macro lenses have less field curvature and even sharpness across the frame and are designed specifically for this kind of work.

--
If you think digital is hard, try slide film.
http://jacquescornell.photography
http://happening.photos
 
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sacklunch said:
My apologies on not listing a very important point...my budget!

I'd like to keep it between 1500-2000 usd.
Click to expand...
A Panasonic GX850 (aka GF9) for $550 with 12-32mm kit zoom and a Panasonic 30mm macro lens for $300 should do nicely. Both are very compact, and the features that are lacking are precisely those you wouldn't need shooting on a tripod.

I'd also strongly recommend a pair of small (5"x7" or so) battery-powered LED light panels on small stands/tripods to light the material at a 45-degree angle from each side. These need not be expensive or bulky, and lighting the material evenly will make a huge difference in the quality of the photos. I can't recommend any particular products, but maybe someone else here can chime in, or you could post a question about this on the Studio Lighting forum. A "macro" flash is likely to cause reflections and hot spots on the material, as it'll be directly above it instead of illuminating it from the side. And, with ancient materials, you may not be allowed to use flash in any case.
 
My answer is more generic :

1) you need a tripod

2) a 24-70mn should do the job. Zoom lens could be easier to use for framing versus prime lens.

3) a camera body that handles low light properly. less noise at high ISO.

another advice is to rent the gears.
 
TerrificShot Photography said:
My answer is more generic :

1) you need a tripod

2) a 24-70mn should do the job. Zoom lens could be easier to use for framing versus prime lens.

3) a camera body that handles low light properly. less noise at high ISO.

another advice is to rent the gears.
Click to expand...
 
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