Portrait Lens Upgrade

ZedDoctor · Jan 24, 2017

Hi All,

My current portrait setup is:

Body: 7D Mark ii and EOS M (upgrading to M5 soon)

Lenses: Canon 17-40 f4L, Canon 70-200 f4L, Canon 50mm 1.8 STM

And of course, an external flash, soft boxes & reflectors.

Currently looking into getting:

A. Canon 70-200 f2.8 L IS II

B. Canon 85 f1.2L

C. Canon 70-200 f2.8L and Canon 85 1.8

D. Canon 135 f2L

Can anyone share any experiences with these lenses and help point me in a good direction? Or are there any other recommendations for lenses.

Thanks All

Aasmund G · Jan 24, 2017

ZedDoctor said:
Body: 7D Mark ii and EOS M (upgrading to M5 soon)

Why not upgrade to 6D ? possibly II?

ZedDoctor said:
Lenses: Canon 17-40 f4L, Canon 70-200 f4L, Canon 50mm 1.8 STM

all your lenses are FF.

ZedDoctor said:
Can anyone share any experiences with these lenses and help point me in a good direction? Or are there any other recommendations for lenses.

It really depends if you want to shoot headshots, environmental, studio, location etc.

ZedDoctor said:
A. Canon 70-200 f2.8 L IS II

Good option for environmental and location. "good enough" so you can mostly skip other lenses. OTOH, you have the F/4, which really is more of a landscape lens but still. Regardless if you stay with crop, it may not be the best option.

ZedDoctor said:
B. Canon 85 f1.2L

a decent option I have an 85 1.4. Don't use it much though. Preferred wider or narrower. A lot more flexible than 135.

ZedDoctor said:
C. Canon 70-200 f2.8L and Canon 85 1.8

I guess this is some sort of compromise option. Better to get what you really want.

ZedDoctor said:
D. Canon 135 f2L

Tempting option. I have used my 135s a lot for portraits. Probably I would go for this or the 85 unless you plan to upgrade to FF in the near future in which case the 70-200 comes into play, in addition to the 100 F2.8 macro IS.

ZedDoctor said:
Thanks All

--
"Earth with out art is just eh."

BAK · Jan 24, 2017

The lenses you have are capable, when being used right, of assisting a photographer in making excellent portraits.

What is going to be different about the portraits you make with your new lens?

That'll tell you want lens you need to do something different and better, or at least different and just as good.

BAK

Spotted Cow · Jan 24, 2017

ZedDoctor said:
Hi All,

My current portrait setup is:

Body: 7D Mark ii and EOS M (upgrading to M5 soon)

Lenses: Canon 17-40 f4L, Canon 70-200 f4L, Canon 50mm 1.8 STM

And of course, an external flash, soft boxes & reflectors.

Currently looking into getting:

A. Canon 70-200 f2.8 L IS II

B. Canon 85 f1.2L

C. Canon 70-200 f2.8L and Canon 85 1.8

D. Canon 135 f2L

Can anyone share any experiences with these lenses and help point me in a good direction? Or are there any other recommendations for lenses.

Thanks All

ZedDoctor · Jan 24, 2017

Spotted Cow said:
ZedDoctor said:

Hi All,

My current portrait setup is:

Body: 7D Mark ii and EOS M (upgrading to M5 soon)

Lenses: Canon 17-40 f4L, Canon 70-200 f4L, Canon 50mm 1.8 STM

And of course, an external flash, soft boxes & reflectors.

Currently looking into getting:

A. Canon 70-200 f2.8 L IS II

B. Canon 85 f1.2L

C. Canon 70-200 f2.8L and Canon 85 1.8

D. Canon 135 f2L

Can anyone share any experiences with these lenses and help point me in a good direction? Or are there any other recommendations for lenses.

Thanks All

Click to expand...

BlueRay2 · Jan 24, 2017

ZedDoctor said:
Hi All,

My current portrait setup is:

Body: 7D Mark ii and EOS M (upgrading to M5 soon)

Lenses: Canon 17-40 f4L, Canon 70-200 f4L, Canon 50mm 1.8 STM

And of course, an external flash, soft boxes & reflectors.

Currently looking into getting:

A. Canon 70-200 f2.8 L IS II

B. Canon 85 f1.2L

C. Canon 70-200 f2.8L and Canon 85 1.8

D. Canon 135 f2L

Can anyone share any experiences with these lenses and help point me in a good direction? Or are there any other recommendations for lenses.

Thanks All

Dave Boy · Jan 25, 2017

Honestly, I would upgrade to a full frame body first before upgrading the lens. I have the 7D Ii and the 6D. And although the 7D II can be used for portraits, the smaller sensor causes 3 problems for portraits:

It reduced the amount of background blur compared to a FF sensor
It doesn't take advantage of the full focal length of portrait lenses (thus making classic portrait lenses like the 85 mm f/1.2 awkward to use).
It is worse at low light compared to FF sensors (the 6D has an amazing sensor).

If I were you, I would keep the 7D II as your "sports and wildlife" body. And get a 6D to use as your "portrait and general purpose body".

In terms of what portrait lens to get, any on your list are good choices. But it depends on what you want:

70-200 f/2.8 IS II is a very versatile lens, build like a tank, and focuses extremely fast. But, heavy and bulky. If you are a working wedding photographer or a sports photographer, this is probably the lens to get. I do use this for my portraits, but I tend to use f/1.4 prime lenses more.
85mm f/1.2 II. Amazing portrait lens that will melt your background away like butter. And at f/1.2, it is more than 2 stops faster than f/2.8 lenses. I call this lens my light magnet. Honestly, for natural-light indoor portraits, f/2.8 is often not wide enough. The main problems with this lens are its poor minimum focus distance, slower focus, lack of critical sharpness wide open (but for portraits, having pinpoint sharpness is not crucial). But don't get me wrong! — this lens is legendary.
85mm f/1.8. This is much lighter than the 85mm f/1.2 and focuses much quicker. But it lets in about a stop less light than the 85mm f/1.2.
35mm f/1.4 II. By far my favorite portrait lens and general purpose lens. Has a terrific minimum focus distance. Sharp, sharp, sharp! Also a light magnet. Gives a VERY unique look — smooth blurred out background with a modestly wide focal length (that combination is hard to do). Excels in environmental portraits (or just move closer for head and shoulder shots).

Also, Canon is rumored to be coming out with a new 85mm f/1.4 IS this year. If you are interested in the 85mm focal length, I would wait and see what comes down the pipeline. Hope this helps.

Spotted Cow · Jan 25, 2017

Dave Boy said:
And although the 7D II can be used for portraits, the smaller sensor causes 3 problems for portraits:
2. It doesn't take advantage of the full focal length of portrait lenses (thus making classic portrait lenses like the 85 mm f/1.2 awkward to use).

Not really. A 85mm lens will have a FOV similar to a 135mm lens which is extremely popular FL as a portrait lens.

Dave Boy said:
In terms of what portrait lens to get, any on your list are good choices. But it depends on what you want:

35mm f/1.4 II. By far my favorite portrait lens and general purpose lens. Has a terrific minimum focus distance. Sharp, sharp, sharp! Also a light magnet. Gives a VERY unique look — smooth blurred out background with a modestly wide focal length (that combination is hard to do). Excels in environmental portraits (or just move closer for head and shoulder shots).

Yikes. I would advise against using a 35mm lens as a head and shoulder portrait lens, generally speaking. Unless you are going for a "unique" look, you are not doing your model any favors.

Dave Boy · Jan 25, 2017

Spotted Cow said:
Dave Boy said:

And although the 7D II can be used for portraits, the smaller sensor causes 3 problems for portraits:
2. It doesn't take advantage of the full focal length of portrait lenses (thus making classic portrait lenses like the 85 mm f/1.2 awkward to use).

Click to expand...

Not really. A 85mm lens will have a FOV similar to a 135mm lens which is extremely popular FL as a portrait lens.

Spotted Cow said:

In terms of what portrait lens to get, any on your list are good choices. But it depends on what you want:

35mm f/1.4 II. By far my favorite portrait lens and general purpose lens. Has a terrific minimum focus distance. Sharp, sharp, sharp! Also a light magnet. Gives a VERY unique look — smooth blurred out background with a modestly wide focal length (that combination is hard to do). Excels in environmental portraits (or just move closer for head and shoulder shots).

Click to expand...

Yikes. I would advise against using a 35mm lens as a head and shoulder portrait lens, generally speaking. Unless you are going for a "unique" look, you are not doing your model any favors.

You are right. 35mm is not the typical focal length for head and shoulder shots. I use it more for environmental portraits. But in a pinch, it works fine and gets more of the context of the surroundings. It is a better "story teller" lens than the 85mm or the 135mm (random family shots).

Dave Boy · Jan 25, 2017

Spotted Cow said:
Dave Boy said:

And although the 7D II can be used for portraits, the smaller sensor causes 3 problems for portraits:
2. It doesn't take advantage of the full focal length of portrait lenses (thus making classic portrait lenses like the 85 mm f/1.2 awkward to use).

Click to expand...

Not really. A 85mm lens will have a FOV similar to a 135mm lens which is extremely popular FL as a portrait lens.

Yes, but it is a compromise. You get the 135mm focal length but you lose some of the nice buttery background blur at f/1.2 that the 85mm was designed for.

JerryriggedTECH · Jan 25, 2017

Dave Boy said:
Honestly, I would upgrade to a full frame body first before upgrading the lens. I have the 7D Ii and the 6D. And although the 7D II can be used for portraits, the smaller sensor causes 3 problems for portraits:

It reduced the amount of background blur compared to a FF sensor

It doesn't take advantage of the full focal length of portrait lenses (thus making classic portrait lenses like the 85 mm f/1.2 awkward to use).

It is worse at low light compared to FF sensors (the 6D has an amazing sensor).

If I were you, I would keep the 7D II as your "sports and wildlife" body. And get a 6D to use as your "portrait and general purpose body".

In terms of what portrait lens to get, any on your list are good choices. But it depends on what you want:

70-200 f/2.8 IS II is a very versatile lens, build like a tank, and focuses extremely fast. But, heavy and bulky. If you are a working wedding photographer or a sports photographer, this is probably the lens to get. I do use this for my portraits, but I tend to use f/1.4 prime lenses more.

85mm f/1.2 II. Amazing portrait lens that will melt your background away like butter. And at f/1.2, it is more than 2 stops faster than f/2.8 lenses. I call this lens my light magnet. Honestly, for natural-light indoor portraits, f/2.8 is often not wide enough. The main problems with this lens are its poor minimum focus distance, slower focus, lack of critical sharpness wide open (but for portraits, having pinpoint sharpness is not crucial). But don't get me wrong! — this lens is legendary.

85mm f/1.8. This is much lighter than the 85mm f/1.2 and focuses much quicker. But it lets in about a stop less light than the 85mm f/1.2.

35mm f/1.4 II. By far my favorite portrait lens and general purpose lens. Has a terrific minimum focus distance. Sharp, sharp, sharp! Also a light magnet. Gives a VERY unique look — smooth blurred out background with a modestly wide focal length (that combination is hard to do). Excels in environmental portraits (or just move closer for head and shoulder shots).

Also, Canon is rumored to be coming out with a new 85mm f/1.4 IS this year. If you are interested in the 85mm focal length, I would wait and see what comes down the pipeline. Hope this helps.

+1 for full frame!

70-200 f/2.8L IS II is amazingly versatile. One of the best all-around lenses made: sports, portraits, wildlife, and super sharp and fast-focusing. If I could only have one for portraits, it would be this lens.

Another great lenses for portraits: 100mm f/2.8L Macro (super sharp, close focusing, nice bokeh).

I also have the 85mm f/1.8 and 50mm f/1.4. Either of these can take great images (award winning even). But both leave me a little meh.

+1 for the 35mm f/1.4L II for portraits. I usually avoid the tight headshots with the 35, but for if I step back a little, it is awesome (images below). Also one of the most versatile primes I've ever used.

Ones I don't have, but are on my list: 50mm f/1.2 (I've used this lens. It is NOT super sharp, but helps make some simply beautiful images), 85mm f/1.4 something something (hoping that Canon comes out with their f/1.4 unit this year... or maybe the new Sigma 85mm f/1.4 Art lens).

A few 35mm portraits:

Dave Boy · Jan 25, 2017

JerryriggedTECH said:
+1 for full frame!

70-200 f/2.8L IS II is amazingly versatile. One of the best all-around lenses made: sports, portraits, wildlife, and super sharp and fast-focusing. If I could only have one for portraits, it would be this lens.

Another great lenses for portraits: 100mm f/2.8L Macro (super sharp, close focusing, nice bokeh).

I also have the 85mm f/1.8 and 50mm f/1.4. Either of these can take great images (award winning even). But both leave me a little meh.

+1 for the 35mm f/1.4L II for portraits. I usually avoid the tight headshots with the 35, but for if I step back a little, it is awesome (images below). Also one of the most versatile primes I've ever used.

Ones I don't have, but are on my list: 50mm f/1.2 (I've used this lens. It is NOT super sharp, but helps make some simply beautiful images), 85mm f/1.4 something something (hoping that Canon comes out with their f/1.4 unit this year... or maybe the new Sigma 85mm f/1.4 Art lens).

A few 35mm portraits:

Nice photos! Yes, I love my 35mm f/1.4 prime. And if Canon came out the 85m f/1.4 IS, I would be sorely tempted.

To the OP, one of the biggest changes to my photography came when I switch to FF. Then I said to myself, "What the hell took me so long?!!"

Of course, a lot of this discussion really depends on what kind of portraits that you do. If you are mainly doing studio portraits using a plain white backdrop where shallow DOF and low light ability is not a concern, then these are just wasted words — keep your 7d II. In fact, I really don't think you need a new lens.

Spotted Cow · Jan 25, 2017

Dave Boy said:
Spotted Cow said:

Dave Boy said:

And although the 7D II can be used for portraits, the smaller sensor causes 3 problems for portraits:
2. It doesn't take advantage of the full focal length of portrait lenses (thus making classic portrait lenses like the 85 mm f/1.2 awkward to use).

Click to expand...

Not really. A 85mm lens will have a FOV similar to a 135mm lens which is extremely popular FL as a portrait lens.

Click to expand...

Yes, but it is a compromise. You get the 135mm focal length but you lose some of the nice buttery background blur at f/1.2 that the 85mm was designed for.

I was responding to your claim that a 85mm lens awkward to use as a portrait lens on a crop sensor camera.

On a side note, there was a thread before discussing the 85mm f1.2L on crop sensor vs. 135mm f2L on FF because they offered more or less the equivalence in terms of FOV and such. I said it was a no brainer...135mm f2L on FF all the way. But it wasn't because the 85mmf1.2L was awkward to use on a crop sensor camera in anyway.

ZedDoctor · Jan 25, 2017

Dave Boy said:
Dave Boy said:

+1 for full frame!

70-200 f/2.8L IS II is amazingly versatile. One of the best all-around lenses made: sports, portraits, wildlife, and super sharp and fast-focusing. If I could only have one for portraits, it would be this lens.

Another great lenses for portraits: 100mm f/2.8L Macro (super sharp, close focusing, nice bokeh).

I also have the 85mm f/1.8 and 50mm f/1.4. Either of these can take great images (award winning even). But both leave me a little meh.

+1 for the 35mm f/1.4L II for portraits. I usually avoid the tight headshots with the 35, but for if I step back a little, it is awesome (images below). Also one of the most versatile primes I've ever used.

Ones I don't have, but are on my list: 50mm f/1.2 (I've used this lens. It is NOT super sharp, but helps make some simply beautiful images), 85mm f/1.4 something something (hoping that Canon comes out with their f/1.4 unit this year... or maybe the new Sigma 85mm f/1.4 Art lens).

A few 35mm portraits:

Click to expand...

Nice photos! Yes, I love my 35mm f/1.4 prime. And if Canon came out the 85m f/1.4 IS, I would be sorely tempted.

To the OP, one of the biggest changes to my photography came when I switch to FF. Then I said to myself, "What the hell took me so long?!!"

Of course, a lot of this discussion really depends on what kind of portraits that you do. If you are mainly doing studio portraits using a plain white backdrop where shallow DOF and low light ability is not a concern, then these are just wasted words — keep your 7d II. In fact, I really don't think you need a new lens.

I honesty don't have a studio. Most of my portraits are tight head shots on persons getting their hair colored, styled, etc. I'm always traveling to different salons all the time. I don't have always have decent lighting, and the salons are all different from one another. Like the other day, I wasn't able to use my 50 1.8 that well due to extreme tightness. I will say the 7d mark ii does decent when I am able to bring external lights and back drops. But most of the time, the salons are too small for lighting.

Hope the gives more insight.. Sorry for not putting in original post.

--
"Earth with out art is just eh."

Spotted Cow · Jan 25, 2017

Dave Boy said:
Spotted Cow said:

Dave Boy said:

And although the 7D II can be used for portraits, the smaller sensor causes 3 problems for portraits:
2. It doesn't take advantage of the full focal length of portrait lenses (thus making classic portrait lenses like the 85 mm f/1.2 awkward to use).

Click to expand...

Not really. A 85mm lens will have a FOV similar to a 135mm lens which is extremely popular FL as a portrait lens.

Dave Boy said:

In terms of what portrait lens to get, any on your list are good choices. But it depends on what you want:

35mm f/1.4 II. By far my favorite portrait lens and general purpose lens. Has a terrific minimum focus distance. Sharp, sharp, sharp! Also a light magnet. Gives a VERY unique look — smooth blurred out background with a modestly wide focal length (that combination is hard to do). Excels in environmental portraits (or just move closer for head and shoulder shots).

Click to expand...

Yikes. I would advise against using a 35mm lens as a head and shoulder portrait lens, generally speaking. Unless you are going for a "unique" look, you are not doing your model any favors.

Click to expand...

You are right. 35mm is not the typical focal length for head and shoulder shots. I use it more for environmental portraits. But in a pinch, it works fine and gets more of the context of the surroundings. It is a better "story teller" lens than the 85mm or the 135mm (random family shots).

Yes, a 35mm lens is a great story telling lens that incorporates the environment with your subject beautifully. There is a reason why it's my favorite FL.

Dan_168 · Jan 25, 2017

ZedDoctor said:
Currently looking into getting:

A. Canon 70-200 f2.8 L IS II

B. Canon 85 f1.2L

C. Canon 70-200 f2.8L and Canon 85 1.8

D. Canon 135 f2L

Can anyone share any experiences with these lenses and help point me in a good direction? Or are there any other recommendations for lenses.

I have all the above except for the 85L, I used to own that 85 L MK 1 but I have the 85L II now. pretty big difference between the original and the MK II. if you are really looking at that focal length, I would suggest give the new Sigma 85 1.4 Art a close look, so much sharper than than the Canon 85L II, I played with a few times, but I am not replacing my 85L II with it as I like the Bokeh from the Canon better than the Sigma, but the Sigma is just so much sharper center to edge.

I am not big fan of 70-200 2.8 IS II either when it comes to Bokeh, so my personal preference for portrait from that list is 85L II + 135L.

Dave Boy · Jan 25, 2017

Spotted Cow said:
Dave Boy said:

Spotted Cow said:

Dave Boy said:

And although the 7D II can be used for portraits, the smaller sensor causes 3 problems for portraits:
2. It doesn't take advantage of the full focal length of portrait lenses (thus making classic portrait lenses like the 85 mm f/1.2 awkward to use).

Click to expand...

Not really. A 85mm lens will have a FOV similar to a 135mm lens which is extremely popular FL as a portrait lens.

Click to expand...

Yes, but it is a compromise. You get the 135mm focal length but you lose some of the nice buttery background blur at f/1.2 that the 85mm was designed for.

Click to expand...

I was responding to your claim that a 85mm lens awkward to use as a portrait lens on a crop sensor camera.

On a side note, there was a thread before discussing the 85mm f1.2L on crop sensor vs. 135mm f2L on FF because they offered more or less the equivalence in terms of FOV and such. I said it was a no brainer...135mm f2L on FF all the way. But it wasn't because the 85mmf1.2L was awkward to use on a crop sensor camera in anyway.

I see what you are saying. I think "awkward" was the wrong word to use.

Dave Boy · Jan 25, 2017

ZedDoctor said:
I honesty don't have a studio. Most of my portraits are tight head shots on persons getting their hair colored, styled, etc. I'm always traveling to different salons all the time. I don't have always have decent lighting, and the salons are all different from one another. Like the other day, I wasn't able to use my 50 1.8 that well due to extreme tightness. I will say the 7d mark ii does decent when I am able to bring external lights and back drops. But most of the time, the salons are too small for lighting.

Yes, if you need to do low light / natural light portraits and 50mm is still too tight, I would go with a FF camera (like the 6D) and consider something like a 35mm f/1.4. Or you could even try a 24mm f/1.4 lens on your 7D II. I have a Sigma 24mm f/1.4. I love it for environmental portraits on my FF cameras.

Best wishes...

Spotted Cow · Jan 25, 2017

ZedDoctor said:
Spotted Cow said:

ZedDoctor said:

Hi All,

My current portrait setup is:

Body: 7D Mark ii and EOS M (upgrading to M5 soon)

Lenses: Canon 17-40 f4L, Canon 70-200 f4L, Canon 50mm 1.8 STM

And of course, an external flash, soft boxes & reflectors.

Currently looking into getting:

A. Canon 70-200 f2.8 L IS II

B. Canon 85 f1.2L

C. Canon 70-200 f2.8L and Canon 85 1.8

D. Canon 135 f2L

Can anyone share any experiences with these lenses and help point me in a good direction? Or are there any other recommendations for lenses.

Thanks All

--
"Earth with out art is just eh."

Click to expand...

Have you considered the Sigma 50-100mm f1.8?

Click to expand...

I have. And its still in the back of my mind. But there are 2 reasons holding me back.

When I upgrade to a full frame, it will not function at best performance, since its made for APSC censors.

Are you planning on purchasing a FF camera any time soon? If not, for me, I would purchase the lens that does the job the best for me now and then worry about he FF lenses later. You can always sell you lens. There is no point in me being handicapped using a lens that doesn't really work best for me right now to safe guard for when I upgrade to FF long time from now.

ZedDoctor said:
Honestly, Im not a fan of how Sigma updates its lenses, I shouldnt have to go and buy a dock to upgrade its software for the camera. Thats why I am trying to stay in the Canon family.

Fair enough. But I wish Canon had a dock like Sigma did for their lenses. On a side note, I own a fair number of Sigma lenses and a dock but have not had to use the dock on any of them. They either focused perfectly out of the box or only requirea minimal AFM, like my other Canon lenses.

ZedDoctor said:
Thank you for the recommendation though!

Not a problem. Always good to consider all the options. Good luck!

ZedDoctor said:
--
"Earth with out art is just eh."

ZedDoctor · Jan 28, 2017

Thank you all so much for your help. I'm a proud owner now of a 6D!

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