Who manipulates their images? Who cheats?

Once anything is classified as art it is manipulated. It's all manipulated. Every painting ever made is manipulated. Paintings aren't "captured" in a split second, skies constantly change, people move and change, trash is usually not perfectly rendered just because it's really there. Is French impressionist painting a manipulation of reality? It all interpretation...it's art.

Sal
 
I hope you have seen the flag raising and the falling soldier - they are famous photographs.... ;-) Not paintings.

We all "know" that Cartier - Bresson took some very spontaneous looking images . Actually he was often standing on a ladder somewhere - for hours - just waiting for a good composition. He "created" his images using "decisive moment"and never used any "post processing "
HCB actually not only didn't manipulate his images in the darkroom - he didn't even process nor print his images. He also did not allow his technicians to crop any of his images and even had the negative carrier filed out so a black border would print so he could be certain his images were not cropped.
And he managed to get everything just right because he was patient. Perhaps a lesson for us all.

What about Eisenstaedt?
Alfred Eisenstaedt, a true pioneer. Started taking pictures at 14. He became a profession journalism photographer in the late 1920's. He shunned the large 4x5 press cameras which relied heavily on the use of flash for this new fangled small Leica camera - just 4 years after it's invention. He shunned flash for natural light. Most say that Eisenstaedt was the master of catching "the storytelling moment." He was famous for perfect timing of the shot which he had painstakingly planned and then executed when it developed with patients quite similar to both Cartier-Bresson and Eugene Smith. Within a single image he told a story. The V-J celebration in NY City is a classic example. He was running with the crowd with his camera waiting and caught a glimpse of something white moving behind him. He turned saw the sailor taking the nurse in his arms and fired at the right moment and produced one of the most iconic images of all times - as a celebrating sailor in uniform had grabbed a nurse and was planting a big celebration kiss on her.

Like many photojournalist of his time he cut his teeth on Life Magazine. Eisenstadt was as comfortable as a portrait photographer as a street photographer. He approached his subjects as friends with minimal equipment in a friendly setting. He always developed a feeling of comfort with his subjects - taking their photographs in an informal manner which many wanted a more formal rendering. However, looking at many of his images of famous people - one can see his approach worked. For the most part he used a 50 mm lens on his Leica - sometimes opting for a 35 mm.

The one thing both Eisenstaedt, HCB, W. Eugene Smith could teach us all is they all carried very little equipment with them. In fact Eisenstaedt owned little equipment. Someone once asked him "where are your real cameras" when shown his equipment. He disarmed people with his small Leica, no bags or extras as he moved through his subjects. Eisenstaedt's philosophy on photography was to "keep it simple." Eisenstaedt saw the world with "childlike wonder" from the day he picked up his first camera till the day he died.

The other thing to keep in mind is that many of the early masters of photojournalism and street photography were ether formally trained or had mentors. HCB had formal training in art and painting which he carried over to photography. He approached photography like he did painting - once he gets the composition - the latent image on the film - his work is done. He did no processing or printing and insisted his images not be cropped. W. Eugene Smith was a student of Minor White for a period of time. White had a huge influence on Smith. All American photographers of that era were influenced by Alfred Stieglitz and his longtime friend Georgia O'Keeffe.
 
I hope you have seen the flag raising and the falling soldier - they are famous photographs.... ;-) Not paintings.

We all "know" that Cartier - Bresson took some very spontaneous looking images . Actually he was often standing on a ladder somewhere - for hours - just waiting for a good composition. He "created" his images using "decisive moment"and never used any "post processing "
HCB actually not only didn't manipulate his images in the darkroom - he didn't even process nor print his images. He also did not allow his technicians to crop any of his images and even had the negative carrier filed out so a black border would print so he could be certain his images were not cropped.
And he managed to get everything just right because he was patient. Perhaps a lesson for us all.

What about Eisenstaedt?
These great masters were very creative in many ways - they could not do much modern post processing. They used something else - even brains.
There was plenty of post processing.
The concept of "cheating" is quite ridiculous with these artists.
Not at all. They did a lot of dodging and burning and other darkroom tricks.
 
I hope you have seen the flag raising and the falling soldier - they are famous photographs.... ;-) Not paintings.

We all "know" that Cartier - Bresson took some very spontaneous looking images . Actually he was often standing on a ladder somewhere - for hours - just waiting for a good composition. He "created" his images using "decisive moment"and never used any "post processing "
HCB actually not only didn't manipulate his images in the darkroom - he didn't even process nor print his images. He also did not allow his technicians to crop any of his images and even had the negative carrier filed out so a black border would print so he could be certain his images were not cropped.
And he managed to get everything just right because he was patient. Perhaps a lesson for us all.

What about Eisenstaedt?
Alfred Eisenstaedt, a true pioneer. Started taking pictures at 14. He became a profession journalism photographer in the late 1920's. He shunned the large 4x5 press cameras which relied heavily on the use of flash for this new fangled small Leica camera - just 4 years after it's invention. He shunned flash for natural light. Most say that Eisenstaedt was the master of catching "the storytelling moment." He was famous for perfect timing of the shot which he had painstakingly planned and then executed when it developed with patients quite similar to both Cartier-Bresson and Eugene Smith. Within a single image he told a story. The V-J celebration in NY City is a classic example. He was running with the crowd with his camera waiting and caught a glimpse of something white moving behind him. He turned saw the sailor taking the nurse in his arms and fired at the right moment and produced one of the most iconic images of all times - as a celebrating sailor in uniform had grabbed a nurse and was planting a big celebration kiss on her.

Like many photojournalist of his time he cut his teeth on Life Magazine. Eisenstadt was as comfortable as a portrait photographer as a street photographer. He approached his subjects as friends with minimal equipment in a friendly setting. He always developed a feeling of comfort with his subjects - taking their photographs in an informal manner which many wanted a more formal rendering. However, looking at many of his images of famous people - one can see his approach worked. For the most part he used a 50 mm lens on his Leica - sometimes opting for a 35 mm.

The one thing both Eisenstaedt, HCB, W. Eugene Smith could teach us all is they all carried very little equipment with them. In fact Eisenstaedt owned little equipment. Someone once asked him "where are your real cameras" when shown his equipment. He disarmed people with his small Leica, no bags or extras as he moved through his subjects. Eisenstaedt's philosophy on photography was to "keep it simple." Eisenstaedt saw the world with "childlike wonder" from the day he picked up his first camera till the day he died.

The other thing to keep in mind is that many of the early masters of photojournalism and street photography were ether formally trained or had mentors. HCB had formal training in art and painting which he carried over to photography. He approached photography like he did painting - once he gets the composition - the latent image on the film - his work is done.
...then he did not approach photography as he did painting. He handed off his film to someone else to perform the making and processing of a final image that can be viewed. Painting is the ultimate form of post processing our reality, and the artist makes every painful decision about how their view of reality is rendered. Not the same at all.

Sal
He did no processing or printing and insisted his images not be cropped. W. Eugene Smith was a student of Minor White for a period of time. White had a huge influence on Smith. All American photographers of that era were influenced by Alfred Stieglitz and his longtime friend Georgia O'Keeffe.

--
Truman
www.pbase.com/tprevatt
 
I hope you have seen the flag raising and the falling soldier - they are famous photographs.... ;-) Not paintings.

We all "know" that Cartier - Bresson took some very spontaneous looking images . Actually he was often standing on a ladder somewhere - for hours - just waiting for a good composition. He "created" his images using "decisive moment"and never used any "post processing "
HCB actually not only didn't manipulate his images in the darkroom - he didn't even process nor print his images. He also did not allow his technicians to crop any of his images and even had the negative carrier filed out so a black border would print so he could be certain his images were not cropped.
And he managed to get everything just right because he was patient. Perhaps a lesson for us all.

What about Eisenstaedt?
These great masters were very creative in many ways - they could not do much modern post processing. They used something else - even brains.
The golden era of photojournalism was the interwar period through the 1970's. Part of that was what was happening - part of it was photographs were how the world was brought to our living room. As Henry Luce once said - he brought the world to the American living room through the lens of a camera. The guys that produced images for Life in that era - developed and honed the skills of their craft. When you are following a platoon of Marines on an island in the Pacific in WW II you have to have an inane instinct not only for an image but how to get the image without getting killed or injured. The advent of television that bought the Vietnam war to the American living room in near real time - changed the dynamic.
The concept of "cheating" is quite ridiculous with these artists. As it is with modern story tellers. They wanted to show something important and made the image important - now we have some famous classic images.... Perhaps the famous kiss was not so real - but it looks more real than most kisses. He was not just documenting kisses.

Eugene w. Smith did quite important work in Minamata and some of his shots are very carefully done and the composition is perfect - can somebody call that cheating ? He almost got killed... not because he was cheating, but because he was telling the world what had happened to the people in Minamata. Things that were not very popular in Japan, nobody wanted to see bad things .

Nowadays we are often looking at some HDR images that have exceptional dramatic colours - most of it done carefully at home with the PC. And too often they are just boring.

I have an artist friend who uses modern cameras , scanners, all kinds of equipment and software to create seriously - but the premeditation and planning is hard work . After 3 weeks work and hundreds of images there are possibly 1-3 that can be shown in an exhibition - images that people will also buy. One of them especially. And then there are weeks without anything...

I have never sold anything - to me this hobby is just a hobby
The trails and tribulations of your friend are common. Many photographers give clinics, teach, etc. as part of their work. Some work at art institutes and universities where production of original work is expected and they receive tenure, promotions, etc. based on it.

To keep my sanity while in graduate school in Baltimore, I attended a nearby art institute. I audited a course in photography and one day in a conversation with my instructor, he said why don't you just become a real student. All your undergraduate courses in general education will transfer and all will need is the required general art and photography courses. He agreed to take me on as a "student." So I did and finished my PhD (mathematical physics) and my BA in fine arts at the same time. My mentor was a very interesting person. He studied under Minor White at the recommendation of Eugene Smith and he and Eugene Smith were close friends. Richard also at that time had a censorship case before the U. S. Supreme Court - in the 1960's and 1970's the U. S. Supreme Court seemed to be the censor board of last resort. His work was very thought provoking to say the least.

At first I spent a lot of time in both fields. A group of us with formal training in photography started a photography program at a large Army based between Baltimore and Washington DC. That base also has a large Defense Department Civilian agency so there was a need. We got the course work approved by the art institute in Baltimore so the students would get credit. The Army gave us a building and funded nice darkroom facilities for the program. We gave night courses in photography which were quite popular with both Army personnel and civilians working at the agency.

However, eventually my work as a mathematician and travel sucked up too much time so I scaled back the photography from a second profession to a hobby. I did sell works in galleries over the years. What I found is one has to kiss a lot of frogs to find a princess - that is one in a 100 shots you take might actually be worth pursuing further and I was picky in my shot selection - no spray and pray here. I might print one in 10 negatives (fewer with a 35 mm and more with a medium format and even more with large format ) but of those after looking at the prints - one in 10 of those were worth the additional work to turn it into a final product. The final print could take hours and hours to produce. I had to often sit it aside for days to weeks and come back to it with a fresh eye and fresh attitude.

That was after going back multiple time to the same location and more often than not coming away empty. Ansel Adams used to pack his equipment on a pack mule and hike up into the Sierra high country and camp out for multiple days waiting for the "light to be right." More often than not he never took a shot. He would have to go back and back to catch the right moment. HCB would stake out a location waiting for "the decisive moment" to develop. Often it didn't and he went away empty. Smith in his "Dream Street - The Pittsburg Project" kept missing his publishers deadline because he was not yet satisfied. That's the name of the game - the same as a painter getting half way finished and then starting over.

If you don't feel for the subject and promote your passion in the image - no one else is going to feel for the subject and see your passion. If no one feels your vision and passion - it wouldn't sell in fact no gallery will take it to take up wall or bin space. I think it is very important to have a group of good friends with some artistic background who will be brutally honest with you and your work. There is nothing like a class room environment where you slap you work on the wall and everyone takes it on. The Internet is clearly not the place for that. It is difficult to produce meaningful art in a vacuum. It is even more difficult to produce art that will sell in a vacuum.

I absolutely agree a lot of "over manipulated" images we often see on the Internet which are a product of more and more S/W tools that render such work fairly easy to perform and harken back to the late 1800 when the Pictoralist dominated photography are basically boring. However, if one is pursuing photography as a hobby for personal satisfaction - the only person that needs to be pleased is oneself. If one likes the heavily manipulated look - that is what one should pursue.

If one is pursuing photography as a means to convey their vision and passion to others - such tricks tend to conceal that vision. As my mentor once said - more time understanding the history of the art and looking at the images of the masters - the better artist you will be. After all we all stand on the shoulders of the masters - people like Edward Weston, Ansel Adams, Minor White, M. Richard Kirstel, Alfred Eisenstadt, W. Eugene Smith, Henri Cartier-Bresson, Dorothea Lang, Robert Adams, Minor White, Gary Winogrand, Paul Strand, Nancy Newhall, etc. Richard also recommended that the first thing I do was subscribe to Aperture - a subscription I still have. It's not inexpensive but it is worth every penny. I often go back and re-read the Daybooks of Edward Weston. Every time I do - I learn something new and I have had these Daybooks for over 40 years now.

One good story we should all keep in mind about "telling the story" as Eisenstaedt, or HCB's " Decisive Moment" or when we fail to get the shot the want and have to walk away is the story of Ansel Adams' "Moonrise."



While Adams did spend a lot of time in the dark room making up for the marginal light - contrary to some earlier claim in this thread - the moon was not added after the fact. In fact the presence of the moon was the only thing that allowed Adam's to take the image because he knew the reflectivity of the moon and place it in Zone VII.

See the original contact print here.


--
Truman
www.pbase.com/tprevatt
 
I hope you have seen the flag raising and the falling soldier - they are famous photographs.... ;-) Not paintings.

We all "know" that Cartier - Bresson took some very spontaneous looking images . Actually he was often standing on a ladder somewhere - for hours - just waiting for a good composition. He "created" his images using "decisive moment"and never used any "post processing "
HCB actually not only didn't manipulate his images in the darkroom - he didn't even process nor print his images. He also did not allow his technicians to crop any of his images and even had the negative carrier filed out so a black border would print so he could be certain his images were not cropped.
And he managed to get everything just right because he was patient. Perhaps a lesson for us all.

What about Eisenstaedt?
Alfred Eisenstaedt, a true pioneer. Started taking pictures at 14. He became a profession journalism photographer in the late 1920's. He shunned the large 4x5 press cameras which relied heavily on the use of flash for this new fangled small Leica camera - just 4 years after it's invention. He shunned flash for natural light. Most say that Eisenstaedt was the master of catching "the storytelling moment." He was famous for perfect timing of the shot which he had painstakingly planned and then executed when it developed with patients quite similar to both Cartier-Bresson and Eugene Smith. Within a single image he told a story. The V-J celebration in NY City is a classic example. He was running with the crowd with his camera waiting and caught a glimpse of something white moving behind him. He turned saw the sailor taking the nurse in his arms and fired at the right moment and produced one of the most iconic images of all times - as a celebrating sailor in uniform had grabbed a nurse and was planting a big celebration kiss on her.

Like many photojournalist of his time he cut his teeth on Life Magazine. Eisenstadt was as comfortable as a portrait photographer as a street photographer. He approached his subjects as friends with minimal equipment in a friendly setting. He always developed a feeling of comfort with his subjects - taking their photographs in an informal manner which many wanted a more formal rendering. However, looking at many of his images of famous people - one can see his approach worked. For the most part he used a 50 mm lens on his Leica - sometimes opting for a 35 mm.

The one thing both Eisenstaedt, HCB, W. Eugene Smith could teach us all is they all carried very little equipment with them. In fact Eisenstaedt owned little equipment. Someone once asked him "where are your real cameras" when shown his equipment. He disarmed people with his small Leica, no bags or extras as he moved through his subjects. Eisenstaedt's philosophy on photography was to "keep it simple." Eisenstaedt saw the world with "childlike wonder" from the day he picked up his first camera till the day he died.

The other thing to keep in mind is that many of the early masters of photojournalism and street photography were ether formally trained or had mentors. HCB had formal training in art and painting which he carried over to photography. He approached photography like he did painting - once he gets the composition - the latent image on the film - his work is done.
...then he did not approach photography as he did painting. He handed off his film to someone else to perform the making and processing of a final image that can be viewed. Painting is the ultimate form of post processing our reality, and the artist makes every painful decision about how their view of reality is rendered. Not the same at all.

Sal
in the interview he did some time ago he stated that he felt the art was in finding the scene and in the composition of the photograph. He felt the latent image was the final product. He also said he had no interest in the final image. It may be he picked up photography because he did not like the part of painting you refer to. I'll have to go back and read the interview again.

However, in reality many of those Life photographers had not facilities to process their own photographs. When you are traveling with the Marines - you don't have a lot of facilities. Smith who did do his own processing and considered the production of the final print the ultimate in photography said that during his days in the War he often shipped his undeveloped film back to the fleet for development and production of the contact sheet. When he got back to ship he would work with the technicians to produce the final prints to ship off. At that time the Navy had photographers and darkroom facilities on some ships.
He did no processing or printing and insisted his images not be cropped. W. Eugene Smith was a student of Minor White for a period of time. White had a huge influence on Smith. All American photographers of that era were influenced by Alfred Stieglitz and his longtime friend Georgia O'Keeffe.
 
I hope you have seen the flag raising and the falling soldier - they are famous photographs.... ;-) Not paintings.

We all "know" that Cartier - Bresson took some very spontaneous looking images . Actually he was often standing on a ladder somewhere - for hours - just waiting for a good composition. He "created" his images using "decisive moment"and never used any "post processing "
HCB actually not only didn't manipulate his images in the darkroom - he didn't even process nor print his images. He also did not allow his technicians to crop any of his images and even had the negative carrier filed out so a black border would print so he could be certain his images were not cropped.
And he managed to get everything just right because he was patient. Perhaps a lesson for us all.

What about Eisenstaedt?
Alfred Eisenstaedt, a true pioneer. Started taking pictures at 14. He became a profession journalism photographer in the late 1920's. He shunned the large 4x5 press cameras which relied heavily on the use of flash for this new fangled small Leica camera - just 4 years after it's invention. He shunned flash for natural light. Most say that Eisenstaedt was the master of catching "the storytelling moment." He was famous for perfect timing of the shot which he had painstakingly planned and then executed when it developed with patients quite similar to both Cartier-Bresson and Eugene Smith. Within a single image he told a story. The V-J celebration in NY City is a classic example. He was running with the crowd with his camera waiting and caught a glimpse of something white moving behind him. He turned saw the sailor taking the nurse in his arms and fired at the right moment and produced one of the most iconic images of all times - as a celebrating sailor in uniform had grabbed a nurse and was planting a big celebration kiss on her.

Like many photojournalist of his time he cut his teeth on Life Magazine. Eisenstadt was as comfortable as a portrait photographer as a street photographer. He approached his subjects as friends with minimal equipment in a friendly setting. He always developed a feeling of comfort with his subjects - taking their photographs in an informal manner which many wanted a more formal rendering. However, looking at many of his images of famous people - one can see his approach worked. For the most part he used a 50 mm lens on his Leica - sometimes opting for a 35 mm.

The one thing both Eisenstaedt, HCB, W. Eugene Smith could teach us all is they all carried very little equipment with them. In fact Eisenstaedt owned little equipment. Someone once asked him "where are your real cameras" when shown his equipment. He disarmed people with his small Leica, no bags or extras as he moved through his subjects. Eisenstaedt's philosophy on photography was to "keep it simple." Eisenstaedt saw the world with "childlike wonder" from the day he picked up his first camera till the day he died.

The other thing to keep in mind is that many of the early masters of photojournalism and street photography were ether formally trained or had mentors. HCB had formal training in art and painting which he carried over to photography. He approached photography like he did painting - once he gets the composition - the latent image on the film - his work is done.
...then he did not approach photography as he did painting. He handed off his film to someone else to perform the making and processing of a final image that can be viewed. Painting is the ultimate form of post processing our reality, and the artist makes every painful decision about how their view of reality is rendered. Not the same at all.

Sal
in the interview he did some time ago he stated that he felt the art was in finding the scene and in the composition of the photograph. He felt the latent image was the final product. He also said he had no interest in the final image. It may be he picked up photography because he did not like the part of painting you refer to. I'll have to go back and read the interview again.

However, in reality many of those Life photographers had not facilities to process their own photographs. When you are traveling with the Marines - you don't have a lot of facilities. Smith who did do his own processing and considered the production of the final print the ultimate in photography said that during his days in the War he often shipped his undeveloped film back to the fleet for development and production of the contact sheet. When he got back to ship he would work with the technicians to produce the final prints to ship off. At that time the Navy had photographers and darkroom facilities on some ships.
Indeed. By definition, painters are heavy into post processing, photographers can skip a step. :)

Sal
He did no processing or printing and insisted his images not be cropped. W. Eugene Smith was a student of Minor White for a period of time. White had a huge influence on Smith. All American photographers of that era were influenced by Alfred Stieglitz and his longtime friend Georgia O'Keeffe.

--
Truman
www.pbase.com/tprevatt
--
Truman
www.pbase.com/tprevatt
 
I hope you have seen the flag raising and the falling soldier - they are famous photographs.... ;-) Not paintings.

We all "know" that Cartier - Bresson took some very spontaneous looking images . Actually he was often standing on a ladder somewhere - for hours - just waiting for a good composition. He "created" his images using "decisive moment"and never used any "post processing "
HCB actually not only didn't manipulate his images in the darkroom - he didn't even process nor print his images. He also did not allow his technicians to crop any of his images and even had the negative carrier filed out so a black border would print so he could be certain his images were not cropped.
Natives look very native and wild - because it is their job.

In social media people look like idiots in their selfies and belfies - are they ? ;-)
 
... will I read any of your posts here with the same (utterly unbiased of course) eyes.

My OP had come from a friendly SKYPE chat with a friend whilst I had Capture One open and we debated the material and colour of that plastic sculpture.

Quite a shallow theme compared to your life story here, I must say. I have experience with olden days lab processing too so can relate to your post.

Regardless ... quite interesting what this little post triggered off. Thanks for the links, must re-read those in a quiet moment.

Deed
 
I hope you have seen the flag raising and the falling soldier - they are famous photographs.... ;-) Not paintings.

We all "know" that Cartier - Bresson took some very spontaneous looking images . Actually he was often standing on a ladder somewhere - for hours - just waiting for a good composition. He "created" his images using "decisive moment"and never used any "post processing "
HCB actually not only didn't manipulate his images in the darkroom - he didn't even process nor print his images. He also did not allow his technicians to crop any of his images and even had the negative carrier filed out so a black border would print so he could be certain his images were not cropped.
Natives look very native and wild - because it is their job.

In social media people look like idiots in their selfies and belfies - are they ? ;-)

--
Kari
I started SLR photography in 1968, first DSLR was Canon 40D in 2007. Now Fuji X-T1 and the new 80D are my favourites - not sure if 80D will win after i get more experience . I still have my Canon 7D and Canon gear
--
Truman
www.pbase.com/tprevatt
That is a well known fact of course - even in some prints we ca see the whole negative. Of course he never did the printing - some good professional did that.

BUT i was talking about the impression of a special short moment. We often think that his "decisive moment" was very spontaneous . He created those spontaneous looking images VERY carefully and waited long times before he pushed the button. Of course that makes him a better ARTIST !
What made him a better artist is that he knew what to compose and how. That it took time for the composition to come together is just the how. Most of us could wait for hours and never have a clue when the right composition came together.
And more importantly he knew the composition he wanted. He waited for it - and the nanosecond it happened he fired the shutter. The decisive moment had noting to do HCB stumbling upon an image it was when the preplanned, pre-visualed image came together. When it did - that was the decisive moment - and it was very fleeting.
BTW - I'm not really disagreeing with you in case it's coming across that way. Just bringing out a bit more. We agree that his images were not spontaneous so much as "momentary" and "fleeting" compositions that required patience to achieve.
Street photography is not different an any other forms. It requires planning, revisualization and proper execution.
It does indeed. I have many a time stood in a place or noticed a good potential shot and said, "if x, y or z happen, that would be a great shot." Sometimes, I get the shot. Many times, I just don't have the time to wait.
 
I do what I need to do to get the image I want. I couldn't give a fiddler's fart what anyone thinks of what I do.
 
I hope you have seen the flag raising and the falling soldier - they are famous photographs.... ;-) Not paintings.

We all "know" that Cartier - Bresson took some very spontaneous looking images . Actually he was often standing on a ladder somewhere - for hours - just waiting for a good composition. He "created" his images using "decisive moment"and never used any "post processing "
HCB actually not only didn't manipulate his images in the darkroom - he didn't even process nor print his images. He also did not allow his technicians to crop any of his images and even had the negative carrier filed out so a black border would print so he could be certain his images were not cropped.
And he managed to get everything just right because he was patient. Perhaps a lesson for us all.

What about Eisenstaedt?
These great masters were very creative in many ways - they could not do much modern post processing. They used something else - even brains.
The golden era of photojournalism was the interwar period through the 1970's. Part of that was what was happening - part of it was photographs were how the world was brought to our living room. As Henry Luce once said - he brought the world to the American living room through the lens of a camera. The guys that produced images for Life in that era - developed and honed the skills of their craft. When you are following a platoon of Marines on an island in the Pacific in WW II you have to have an inane instinct not only for an image but how to get the image without getting killed or injured. The advent of television that bought the Vietnam war to the American living room in near real time - changed the dynamic.
The concept of "cheating" is quite ridiculous with these artists. As it is with modern story tellers. They wanted to show something important and made the image important - now we have some famous classic images.... Perhaps the famous kiss was not so real - but it looks more real than most kisses. He was not just documenting kisses.

Eugene w. Smith did quite important work in Minamata and some of his shots are very carefully done and the composition is perfect - can somebody call that cheating ? He almost got killed... not because he was cheating, but because he was telling the world what had happened to the people in Minamata. Things that were not very popular in Japan, nobody wanted to see bad things .

Nowadays we are often looking at some HDR images that have exceptional dramatic colours - most of it done carefully at home with the PC. And too often they are just boring.

I have an artist friend who uses modern cameras , scanners, all kinds of equipment and software to create seriously - but the premeditation and planning is hard work . After 3 weeks work and hundreds of images there are possibly 1-3 that can be shown in an exhibition - images that people will also buy. One of them especially. And then there are weeks without anything...

I have never sold anything - to me this hobby is just a hobby
The trails and tribulations of your friend are common. Many photographers give clinics, teach, etc. as part of their work. Some work at art institutes and universities where production of original work is expected and they receive tenure, promotions, etc. based on it.

To keep my sanity while in graduate school in Baltimore, I attended a nearby art institute. I audited a course in photography and one day in a conversation with my instructor, he said why don't you just become a real student. All your undergraduate courses in general education will transfer and all will need is the required general art and photography courses. He agreed to take me on as a "student." So I did and finished my PhD (mathematical physics) and my BA in fine arts at the same time. My mentor was a very interesting person. He studied under Minor White at the recommendation of Eugene Smith and he and Eugene Smith were close friends. Richard also at that time had a censorship case before the U. S. Supreme Court - in the 1960's and 1970's the U. S. Supreme Court seemed to be the censor board of last resort. His work was very thought provoking to say the least.

At first I spent a lot of time in both fields. A group of us with formal training in photography started a photography program at a large Army based between Baltimore and Washington DC. That base also has a large Defense Department Civilian agency so there was a need. We got the course work approved by the art institute in Baltimore so the students would get credit. The Army gave us a building and funded nice darkroom facilities for the program. We gave night courses in photography which were quite popular with both Army personnel and civilians working at the agency.

However, eventually my work as a mathematician and travel sucked up too much time so I scaled back the photography from a second profession to a hobby. I did sell works in galleries over the years. What I found is one has to kiss a lot of frogs to find a princess - that is one in a 100 shots you take might actually be worth pursuing further and I was picky in my shot selection - no spray and pray here. I might print one in 10 negatives (fewer with a 35 mm and more with a medium format and even more with large format ) but of those after looking at the prints - one in 10 of those were worth the additional work to turn it into a final product. The final print could take hours and hours to produce. I had to often sit it aside for days to weeks and come back to it with a fresh eye and fresh attitude.

That was after going back multiple time to the same location and more often than not coming away empty. Ansel Adams used to pack his equipment on a pack mule and hike up into the Sierra high country and camp out for multiple days waiting for the "light to be right." More often than not he never took a shot. He would have to go back and back to catch the right moment. HCB would stake out a location waiting for "the decisive moment" to develop. Often it didn't and he went away empty. Smith in his "Dream Street - The Pittsburg Project" kept missing his publishers deadline because he was not yet satisfied. That's the name of the game - the same as a painter getting half way finished and then starting over.

If you don't feel for the subject and promote your passion in the image - no one else is going to feel for the subject and see your passion. If no one feels your vision and passion - it wouldn't sell in fact no gallery will take it to take up wall or bin space. I think it is very important to have a group of good friends with some artistic background who will be brutally honest with you and your work. There is nothing like a class room environment where you slap you work on the wall and everyone takes it on. The Internet is clearly not the place for that. It is difficult to produce meaningful art in a vacuum. It is even more difficult to produce art that will sell in a vacuum.

I absolutely agree a lot of "over manipulated" images we often see on the Internet which are a product of more and more S/W tools that render such work fairly easy to perform and harken back to the late 1800 when the Pictoralist dominated photography are basically boring. However, if one is pursuing photography as a hobby for personal satisfaction - the only person that needs to be pleased is oneself. If one likes the heavily manipulated look - that is what one should pursue.

If one is pursuing photography as a means to convey their vision and passion to others - such tricks tend to conceal that vision. As my mentor once said - more time understanding the history of the art and looking at the images of the masters - the better artist you will be. After all we all stand on the shoulders of the masters - people like Edward Weston, Ansel Adams, Minor White, M. Richard Kirstel, Alfred Eisenstadt, W. Eugene Smith, Henri Cartier-Bresson, Dorothea Lang, Robert Adams, Minor White, Gary Winogrand, Paul Strand, Nancy Newhall, etc. Richard also recommended that the first thing I do was subscribe to Aperture - a subscription I still have. It's not inexpensive but it is worth every penny. I often go back and re-read the Daybooks of Edward Weston. Every time I do - I learn something new and I have had these Daybooks for over 40 years now.

One good story we should all keep in mind about "telling the story" as Eisenstaedt, or HCB's " Decisive Moment" or when we fail to get the shot the want and have to walk away is the story of Ansel Adams' "Moonrise."

http://anseladams.com/ansel-adams-anecdotes/

http://www.hctc.commnet.edu/artmuseum/anseladams/details/moonrise.html

While Adams did spend a lot of time in the dark room making up for the marginal light - contrary to some earlier claim in this thread - the moon was not added after the fact. In fact the presence of the moon was the only thing that allowed Adam's to take the image because he knew the reflectivity of the moon and place it in Zone VII.

See the original contact print here.

http://www.kevinshick.com/blog/2013/4/revisiting-hernandez-nm

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Truman
www.pbase.com/tprevatt
- i really enjoyed reading your post !

Perhaps OP did not exactly expect responses like these, but i'm quite happy to see opinions and discussion of this kind.

Sometimes after reading a discussion thread about sharpness differences between zoom and prime lenses or how absolutely superior FF is compared to APS C ... i think that i should stay away from these forums and pixel peeper orgies ;-) Luckily i return now and then.

English is not my first language and this is a bit close to the edge of my comfort zone... and i try to keep this short.

Anyway, the artist friend i mentioned told, that one important thing she has found out lately is the process of starting something very new totally outside her "comfort zone". She is quite young, but does make some kind of living as an artist. Her previous works were often made from images taken in some misty and wet mountain forest in China or Croatia - but never in a studio really. Now she is trying to make flower arrangements in a small studio with special methods - in her hometown. Sounds quite terrible and challenging ... but the results are surprisingly great . Flower arrangements in modern times ! Of course this is also a project - not very long lasting

After seeing her work i remembered some renaissance / flemish masters. And then i remembered the rather funny fact - or anecdote - of the Renaissance times. People did not go to exhibitions to buy art - rich people ORDERED paintings. In an agreement it was written how big the painting should be , what is the theme, how many persons there should be and possibly the influential persons and relatives who should be used as the models of saints and angels ! ;-) and how much expensive colours (vermillion or gold) could be used. Some of the greatest works in art history are made this way - and still - there is some exceptional creativity and artistic quality that we can admire 500 years after the work and the contract were done .

As a hobbyist taking snapshots i can not say that i'm "standing on the shoulders of some early masters" - nice to know that some artists are. And it is enjoyable to see old work that probably did have some influence on something - perhaps it did not change the whole world but we remember them ( works of Dorothea Lange and images like "Child with toy hand grenade in Central Park " by Arbus)






I remembered O'Keeffe when i found this tiny skull - but this is not ART ! I had fun.





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Kari
I started SLR photography in 1968, first DSLR was Canon 40D in 2007. Now Fuji X-T1 and the new 80D are my favourites - not sure if 80D will win after i get more experience . I still have my Canon 7D and Canon gear
 
I do what I need to do to get the image I want. I couldn't give a fiddler's fart what anyone thinks of what I do.
You still in the greater Shanghai area?

I always enjoyed your photos from around there! Often with your own stamp of post ... if that's an acceptable way of putting it?

I don't think I will have time to go to China this year, airfares are very tempting, but there are also all those other countries, of course. I saw some pictures taken in a bizarre multi-coloured desert somewhere north. Not much life up there, but certainly impressive.

I visited various parts of Hunan last year and find the country fascinating. If you want to share some rather hidden secrets, I would be all ears.

Deed
 

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