tkbslc
Forum Pro
Which is great, isn't it? Back in the film era, nobody had to upgrade every year. You got a decade out of your cameras easily. My mom had the same Pentax SLR she used for my entire childhood!
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The $2K factor (O/T)
- Thread starter dv312
- Start date
I think it depends on how we as consumers look at things--we really should look at usage & value add rather than features. Many photographers don't need some of the 'pro-level' features, which can ironically be detrimental to image quality or getting the shot. Pro-level bodies are typically very good for extreme purposes.
For example, Nikon has a few 'pro-level' bodies (w/launch pricing):
- D5 (Full Frame) $6,500
- D810 (Full Frame) $3,300
- D500 (APS-C) $2,000
- D750 (Full Frame) $2,300
- D610 (Full Frame) $2,000
- D7200 (APS-C) $1,200
On the flip side, the D810 is for high image quality at the expense of speed. It's slow--slower burst than the D7200. D810 for portraits & landscapes; D5 & D500 for sports & wildlife.The enthusiast bodies are blend--not as extreme. eg. D750 is faster than the D810 and has higher image quality than the D5 up until about ISO 1250. The D7200 has similar IQ as the D500 but is slower. Most pro's need extremes and have multiple bodies.
When you look at pricing, it becomes very interesting. These categories start bleeding into one another. For example: A D750 has better IQ than a D500, but the D500 is quicker. So maybe instead of a D5 (speed) + D810 (IQ) for $10k, you go for a D500 (speed) + D750 (IQ) for $4k. That's significant. If you're after only 1 body and don't primarily shoot action, the enthusiast D750 outperforms the pro D500 for a similar price.
There have analogies in the m43 world as well; but m43 will obviously compete with the above as well while bringing additional variables (eg. size & cost). And each obviously also competes with current street & used pricing as well.
But overall, if we purchase based on use & budget rather than overall features, there's only so much manufacturers can retail at before consumers look at different options.
With some cameras, we're already close to some practical physical limits with IQ (eg. with diffraction, noise performance, resolution, etc.), so the only practical way to drastically improve is not up in IQ--it's sideways with more or improved features. This means faster bursts, better AF, etc. If they're not relevant features, they're not worth it--and these are 'pro' features. So we could very well see pro bodies go up; but hopefully consumer bodies will stay around the same.
It's pretty cutthroat, with diminishing returns quickly setting in.
That's cause film improved.
Now, if we could swap out just the sensor or buffer memory every few years...
tkbslc
Forum Pro
Not really..That's cause film improved.
Film didn't improve every year or even every few years. More like every decade or two. Some of the most popular films remained unchanged for even longer. Kodachrome was released in the early 60s and remained essentially unchanged until it was discontinued in 2009! It was very likely that you used the same quality of film for most of your film camera's relevant life.Now, if we could swap out just the sensor or buffer memory every few years...
For the first ten years or so of digital photography, we did get about a stop better high ISO and increased resolution every cycle or two. But the past 5 years or so we have not. We kind of hit a bit of a plateau about 5 years ago. And I think that means you can safely use your camera for as long as it will keep ticking without feeling too far left behind. It's not a bad thing.
Fair enough, I'd agree with that.Not really..That's cause film improved.
Film didn't improve every year or even every few years. More like every decade or two. Some of the most popular films remained unchanged for even longer. Kodachrome was released in the early 60s and remained essentially unchanged until it was discontinued in 2009! It was very likely that you used the same quality of film for most of your film camera's relevant life.Now, if we could swap out just the sensor or buffer memory every few years...
For the first ten years or so of digital photography, we did get about a stop better high ISO and increased resolution every cycle or two. But the past 5 years or so we have not. We kind of hit a bit of a plateau about 5 years ago. And I think that means you can safely use your camera for as long as it will keep ticking without feeling too far left behind. It's not a bad thing.
brianric
Veteran Member
Just as there is more expensive hobbies.
brianric
Veteran Member
Try 1935 when Kodachrome was introduced.
I dunno... I know lots of people with hobbies and none of them are cheap when you really get serious about them. Considering what some of my friends spend on cars, audio, video, guns, wine, boats, skiing and bikes mine would be one of the cheaper hobbies.
tkbslc
Forum Pro
The version that ran until 2009 was Kodachrome II which was released in the 60's.
Still kind of proves my point that film certainly didn't change at digital pace. We complain if we haven't had a full stop of DR added every 3 years.
DonParrot
Veteran Member
I don't know. currently it's more about new features and improved hardware - at least in the MILC world. And the D500 demonstrated that it's the same in DSLR country. To be honest, I still could happily live with the IQ of my E-5 if they would improve the High-ISO performance.
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I wish I was an OLYgarch
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I totally agree with you. 3k is a big pill to swallow when there are full frame systems with larger sensors AND more resolution for less money. You can get a great kit lens, 24 or 36 megapixels camera body, and a nice kit lens for around the same price and maybe cheaper.
The GX85, G7, G8, and G80 are not perfect but offer a lot of bang for your buck. The GX85 and G7 performance at iso 6400 is just incredible when you can get them for under 700 with a lens. Some features mic jack headphone jack are stripped out but the stills function are the same as the top of the line camera.
Damn right.
Good points. Whole thing is starting to sound like a winter fever. After years of chronic overproduction the camera biz is awash with heavily discounted products. There is no need to pay full price for most things and absolutely excellent cameras can be picked up for a fraction of $2K if you are prepared to buy something that is a year or two old. Of course a brand-new camera at $2K or much more will make perfect sense for some folks, especially professionals for whom such items are essential, but for the vast majority it makes no sense at all. Fortunately, they are spoiled for choice at far more reasonable price levels and those less costly cameras will still do all they need.
For the camera companies a more pressing problem is how to keep prices up (to balance selling fewer cameras) in a situation in which their past overproduction means that prices are very difficult to keep up, for the next few years at least.
I was looking through the catalogue of second-hand and nearly new items from a dealer earlier today. Bargains in great condition on every page. I fancy the Zuiko original 43 7-14mm and the 50-200mm SWD, two of the finest lenses you can buy. The dealer had several top-class examples of both whose cost added together was no more than the current cost of a single Pro lens like the 40-150mm or the 12-100mm.
For the camera companies a more pressing problem is how to keep prices up (to balance selling fewer cameras) in a situation in which their past overproduction means that prices are very difficult to keep up, for the next few years at least.
I was looking through the catalogue of second-hand and nearly new items from a dealer earlier today. Bargains in great condition on every page. I fancy the Zuiko original 43 7-14mm and the 50-200mm SWD, two of the finest lenses you can buy. The dealer had several top-class examples of both whose cost added together was no more than the current cost of a single Pro lens like the 40-150mm or the 12-100mm.
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brianric
Veteran Member
Reminded me of a co-worker at the nuke plant criticizing me for dropping three thousand for a camera when I calmly said "Got a boat". He hung his head down in shame. :-D
O
OlyPent
Guest
Three things driving it;
-Shrinking middle class, increasing upper class, re-targeting of models.
-Exploit existing loyal customers with constant price increases. Nikon learned this some time ago with its lenses. Done out of need because of lack of enough new customers
-Those who haven't deserted their fling with real cameras and gone to phones are still enthusiastic.
-Shrinking middle class, increasing upper class, re-targeting of models.
-Exploit existing loyal customers with constant price increases. Nikon learned this some time ago with its lenses. Done out of need because of lack of enough new customers
-Those who haven't deserted their fling with real cameras and gone to phones are still enthusiastic.
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