A little Football advice?

I have the opportunity to shoot some high school football this year from the sidelines. I will be using the 10D. I have a couple of questions.

1. My current long lens is too slow. I am considering the Canon 70-200L f2.8. Is that lens long enough for football? Has anyone used it and have examples? I am also considering the Sigma 130-400 f2.8 and would appreciate feedback on that lens also. I will be using a Bogen monopod.

2. I currently don't have a flash. Is it OK to use a flash on the sidelines, does it interfere with play? Will using Flash make much of a difference in this setting.

Any advice on shooting this subject and feedback on my specific questions would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Kevin

KevinMorris said:

I have the opportunity to shoot some high school football this year
from the sidelines. I will be using the 10D. I have a couple of
questions.

1. My current long lens is too slow. I am considering the Canon
70-200L f2.8. Is that lens long enough for football? Has anyone
used it and have examples? I am also considering the Sigma 130-400
f2.8 and would appreciate feedback on that lens also. I will be
using a Bogen monopod.

2. I currently don't have a flash. Is it OK to use a flash on the
sidelines, does it interfere with play? Will using Flash make much
of a difference in this setting.

Any advice on shooting this subject and feedback on my specific
questions would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Kevin

Click to expand...

I assume you mean the Sigma 100-300 F2.8?

From what I understand of the lighting at the stiums in the US then you are going to need faster glass, like you mention. F2.8 is the minimum you can get away with.

From experience from shoot Soccer similar size playing area then you can use anything from a wide angle for celebration shots, 70-200 for action close to you and 300-400 for action a little further away. A 400mm F2.8 would be ideal, but a little costly.

On of the best things to do is try and hire some lenses for a weekend. Or use lenses you already have to get an idea of the focal length and the range options they give you, then invest in the faster lenses. Different people have differrence shooting styles and prefer different locations on the sideline to get the images...

Other things to consider are:

1. Are you able to move around the pitch freely during the game? This eliminates the need for the longer glass as you can use your feet to get closer to the action (within reason of course).

2. type of pics you want.....close ups of the action, or pictures with more surroundings in the image.

The best thing is to try, look at some of the sample images people post on here and see what works for you and what does not.

Remember the D60 is 6MP so you may be able to crop the end results depending on what they will be used for...

--
Rich Claypole - (Wannabe Sports Photographer)

http://www.FootballPics.net
http://www.kraftikards.co.uk

Canon EOS 1D, D60
Canon EF 50mm F1.8, EF 28-135mm IS
Sigma 300mm F2.8 + 70-200 F2.8
Sigma 1.4x and 2x Tele-Converters

The Sigma lens I am considering is the 120-300 f2.8........fat fingers!

KevinMorris said:

I have the opportunity to shoot some high school football this year
from the sidelines. I will be using the 10D. I have a couple of
questions.

1. My current long lens is too slow. I am considering the Canon
70-200L f2.8. Is that lens long enough for football? Has anyone
used it and have examples? I am also considering the Sigma 130-400
f2.8 and would appreciate feedback on that lens also. I will be
using a Bogen monopod.

2. I currently don't have a flash. Is it OK to use a flash on the
sidelines, does it interfere with play? Will using Flash make much
of a difference in this setting.

Any advice on shooting this subject and feedback on my specific
questions would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Kevin

Click to expand...

Experiment and move around. Shoot five yards behind the line of scrimmage, 15 yards ahead, from the end zone when they are down on the goal line. If you stand in one corner and don't move you're not going to get much.

A 70-200 2.8 would be ideal for night games if you can use flash. I would say if you have a flash and it's OK to use it, then use it. Twenty years ago I asked the local football and basketball players if they noticed the flash, and they said "no." Maybe modern players are more sensitive. Check with the school if you want to make sure, but the places I've shot football don't object to flash. Boost the ISO and experiment without it if you have time.

If you are using a fairly short lens like a 70-200 and are shooting along the sideline, a monopod is a hindrance in my opinion. Build up Popeye arms and use it without a monopod. Others may disagree.

A longer lens on a monopod is usable during the day, but it's not absolutely necessary if you are close enough to the action.

Final bit of advice and another reason not to use a monopod: When you see everyone running right toward you, get out of the way.

KevinMorris said:

I have the opportunity to shoot some high school football this year
from the sidelines. I will be using the 10D. I have a couple of
questions.

1. My current long lens is too slow. I am considering the Canon
70-200L f2.8. Is that lens long enough for football? Has anyone
used it and have examples? I am also considering the Sigma 130-400
f2.8 and would appreciate feedback on that lens also. I will be
using a Bogen monopod.

2. I currently don't have a flash. Is it OK to use a flash on the
sidelines, does it interfere with play? Will using Flash make much
of a difference in this setting.

Any advice on shooting this subject and feedback on my specific
questions would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Kevin

Click to expand...

Tom O'Neil said:

Final bit of advice and another reason not to use a monopod: When
you see everyone running right toward you, get out of the way.

Click to expand...

Forgot to say, GET THE SHOT, then get out of the way!

I agree a monopod with a lens like the 70-200 will do nothing but slow you down. With a shorter lens like that you will just have move around a little more but it should work fine. You might also try shootiing on your knees as it provides a good perspective. I have never seen anyone told not to use flash at a highschool football game.

http://www.pbase.com/cpz/college_fooball

Thanks for the advice guys.

Since I have never had a fast lens and have not had the chance to experiment Im assuming that f2.8/ISO 1600 should be a good starting point for night games with stadium lighting. What shutter speads should I expect on AV using these parameters?

I think a little motion blur adds to the drama of a photo but I don't want huge blurs running across the image.

CPZ said:

I agree a monopod with a lens like the 70-200 will do nothing but
slow you down. With a shorter lens like that you will just have
move around a little more but it should work fine. You might also
try shootiing on your knees as it provides a good perspective. I
have never seen anyone told not to use flash at a highschool
football game.

http://www.pbase.com/cpz/college_fooball

Click to expand...

Do not shoot in AV mode for night time high school football. You need to use manual exposure. In Av mode the camera will make a lot decisions for you that you probaly won't be happy with. You will need to use ISO 1600 unless the stadium is unusualy well lit. shutter speeds will range from 1/250-1/320th most of the time @ ISO 1600 and f/2.8. speeds below 1/200th are not very useful most of the time.

Hey CPZ,

I have had luck with manual mode shooting static images (landscapes, sunsets, etc) but have not had luck with a moving target. It seems the changes in light from one area of composition to the next throughs the exposure out of whack.

Do you have any advice on what technique you use shooting moving subjects in manual mode?

CPZ said:

Do not shoot in AV mode for night time high school football. You
need to use manual exposure. In Av mode the camera will make a lot
decisions for you that you probaly won't be happy with. You will
need to use ISO 1600 unless the stadium is unusualy well lit.
shutter speeds will range from 1/250-1/320th most of the time @ ISO
1600 and f/2.8. speeds below 1/200th are not very useful most of
the time.

Click to expand...

KevinMorris said:

I have had luck with manual mode shooting static images
(landscapes, sunsets, etc) but have not had luck with a moving
target. It seems the changes in light from one area of composition
to the next throughs the exposure out of whack.

Do you have any advice on what technique you use shooting moving
subjects in manual mode?

CPZ said:

Do not shoot in AV mode for night time high school football. You
need to use manual exposure. In Av mode the camera will make a lot
decisions for you that you probaly won't be happy with. You will
need to use ISO 1600 unless the stadium is unusualy well lit.
shutter speeds will range from 1/250-1/320th most of the time @ ISO
1600 and f/2.8. speeds below 1/200th are not very useful most of
the time.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

The lighting should be reasonable even under the floodlights and shouldn't change too much, may change if there is ambient light at the start of the game.

You need to take a few shots during the warmup if possible and establish the most suitable exposure setting by checking the histogram. If the light seems to change during the game, check the histogram on a regular basis and adjust exposure accordingly. One you have done this a few times you sono get the hand of it.

--
Rich Claypole - (Wannabe Sports Photographer)

http://www.FootballPics.net
http://www.kraftikards.co.uk

Canon EOS 1D, D60
Canon EF 50mm F1.8, EF 28-135mm IS
Sigma 300mm F2.8 + 70-200 F2.8
Sigma 1.4x and 2x Tele-Converters

Hey Rich,

Checked out your site, what lens did you use most often for those shots?

Is your 70-200 f2.8 the IS or non IS lens? How has that lens worked for you for night games? That is the lens Im most considering.

Thanks

Rich Claypole said:

KevinMorris said:

I have had luck with manual mode shooting static images
(landscapes, sunsets, etc) but have not had luck with a moving
target. It seems the changes in light from one area of composition
to the next throughs the exposure out of whack.

Do you have any advice on what technique you use shooting moving
subjects in manual mode?

CPZ said:

Do not shoot in AV mode for night time high school football. You
need to use manual exposure. In Av mode the camera will make a lot
decisions for you that you probaly won't be happy with. You will
need to use ISO 1600 unless the stadium is unusualy well lit.
shutter speeds will range from 1/250-1/320th most of the time @ ISO
1600 and f/2.8. speeds below 1/200th are not very useful most of
the time.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

The lighting should be reasonable even under the floodlights and
shouldn't change too much, may change if there is ambient light at
the start of the game.

You need to take a few shots during the warmup if possible and
establish the most suitable exposure setting by checking the
histogram. If the light seems to change during the game, check the
histogram on a regular basis and adjust exposure accordingly. One
you have done this a few times you sono get the hand of it.

--
Rich Claypole - (Wannabe Sports Photographer)

http://www.FootballPics.net
http://www.kraftikards.co.uk

Canon EOS 1D, D60
Canon EF 50mm F1.8, EF 28-135mm IS
Sigma 300mm F2.8 + 70-200 F2.8
Sigma 1.4x and 2x Tele-Converters

Click to expand...

KevinMorris said:

Checked out your site, what lens did you use most often for those
shots?

Is your 70-200 f2.8 the IS or non IS lens? How has that lens
worked for you for night games? That is the lens Im most
considering.

Thanks

Rich Claypole said:

KevinMorris said:

I have had luck with manual mode shooting static images
(landscapes, sunsets, etc) but have not had luck with a moving
target. It seems the changes in light from one area of composition
to the next throughs the exposure out of whack.

Do you have any advice on what technique you use shooting moving
subjects in manual mode?

CPZ said:

Do not shoot in AV mode for night time high school football. You
need to use manual exposure. In Av mode the camera will make a lot
decisions for you that you probaly won't be happy with. You will
need to use ISO 1600 unless the stadium is unusualy well lit.
shutter speeds will range from 1/250-1/320th most of the time @ ISO
1600 and f/2.8. speeds below 1/200th are not very useful most of
the time.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

The lighting should be reasonable even under the floodlights and
shouldn't change too much, may change if there is ambient light at
the start of the game.

You need to take a few shots during the warmup if possible and
establish the most suitable exposure setting by checking the
histogram. If the light seems to change during the game, check the
histogram on a regular basis and adjust exposure accordingly. One
you have done this a few times you sono get the hand of it.

--
Rich Claypole - (Wannabe Sports Photographer)

http://www.FootballPics.net
http://www.kraftikards.co.uk

Canon EOS 1D, D60
Canon EF 50mm F1.8, EF 28-135mm IS
Sigma 300mm F2.8 + 70-200 F2.8
Sigma 1.4x and 2x Tele-Converters

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Barry Horn wrote:
It's wonderful to say shoot 5 or 10 yards from the line of scrimage, but the

areas between the two 30 yard lines are reserved for the teams. In high school, you might be allowed in this area, but the coaches are running around and could get in your way. Of course, you won't get in their way. Flash won't bother the athletes. Buy the longest 2.8 lens you can afford.

KevinMorris said:

Checked out your site, what lens did you use most often for those
shots?

Is your 70-200 f2.8 the IS or non IS lens? How has that lens
worked for you for night games? That is the lens Im most
considering.

Thanks

Rich Claypole said:

KevinMorris said:

I have had luck with manual mode shooting static images
(landscapes, sunsets, etc) but have not had luck with a moving
target. It seems the changes in light from one area of composition
to the next throughs the exposure out of whack.

Do you have any advice on what technique you use shooting moving
subjects in manual mode?

CPZ said:

Do not shoot in AV mode for night time high school football. You
need to use manual exposure. In Av mode the camera will make a lot
decisions for you that you probaly won't be happy with. You will
need to use ISO 1600 unless the stadium is unusualy well lit.
shutter speeds will range from 1/250-1/320th most of the time @ ISO
1600 and f/2.8. speeds below 1/200th are not very useful most of
the time.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

The lighting should be reasonable even under the floodlights and
shouldn't change too much, may change if there is ambient light at
the start of the game.

You need to take a few shots during the warmup if possible and
establish the most suitable exposure setting by checking the
histogram. If the light seems to change during the game, check the
histogram on a regular basis and adjust exposure accordingly. One
you have done this a few times you sono get the hand of it.

--
Rich Claypole - (Wannabe Sports Photographer)

http://www.FootballPics.net
http://www.kraftikards.co.uk

Canon EOS 1D, D60
Canon EF 50mm F1.8, EF 28-135mm IS
Sigma 300mm F2.8 + 70-200 F2.8
Sigma 1.4x and 2x Tele-Converters

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Hi,

I use Sigma glass, cheaper and good enough for press usage....One day i will invest in Canon glass, but not yet...

The Reading v Southampton game is the only game I have really covered under floodlights. I was using the 1D with a the Sigma 300mm F2.8, was getting around 1/640 down to 1/320s when set at ISO 1600 towards the end of the game when the ambient light had gone.

The lighting in that stadium (pro soccer) is pretty good and I think it will be a lot better than what you will be shooting under.

Mainly end up using the 300mm F2.8, most if not all the pics on the site are taken with that lens. I would use the 70-200 a little more, but the D60 AF is not so great (D60 is my backup body at the moment).

The Sigma 300mm F2.8 is a good lens for the money, and when shooting during the day works well with the 1.4x tele. Well worth considering if you need fast glass but are on a tight budget.

--
Rich Claypole - (Wannabe Sports Photographer)

http://www.FootballPics.net
http://www.kraftikards.co.uk

Canon EOS 1D, D60
Canon EF 50mm F1.8, EF 28-135mm IS
Sigma 300mm F2.8 + 70-200 F2.8
Sigma 1.4x and 2x Tele-Converters

The 70-200 2.8 is a great lens. It's sometimes a little short for football, but you will have lots of cropping power.

I use the 70-200 on manual at 2.8, 250th-320th, with 550EX on ETTL at +1/2 to +3.4. ETTL stinks, but that is another issue. I start at ISO 200-400 depending on light (shoot like crazy before the sun sets during early season games) and end up at ISO 800.

Flash is fine (and expected) here on South Florida's poorly lighted fields.

Experiment with your flash compensation, depending on jersey color. Fire away and you'll be fine. I even got some good shots with the D30.

Here are some archived shots (check last fall's dates):
http://www.palmswestpress.com/photos.htm

Good luck and remember to join our high school sports thread each week.

-------------------------------
Bob Markey II
http://www.palmswestpress.com
Royal Palm Beach/Wellington, Fla.

When you first arrive at the game you need to do a few test shots and determine your proper exposure(easy to do with digital). The early sept games also have alot of ambient sunlight to so remember to adjust the shutter speed to compensate as the sun goes down. I usually start shooting using ISO 800 1/500th- 1/800th @ f/2.8 that doesn't last very long and I end up shooting most of the game at ISO 1600 1/250th -1/320th. These changes are very easy to make if you just leave it on manual

A few other things to remember are that most fields have a "hot spot" some where between the 40 yd lines where the field will be much brighter.

The light in the endzones will drop off by 1-2 stops the back corners are the worst. If you have to use flash just use it for fill and not the primary light

If you are shooting with the action coming towards you try and keep one eye open and on the action so you don't get run over.

http://www.pbase.com/cpz/college_fooball

CPZ said:

http://www.pbase.com/cpz/college_fooball

Click to expand...

Wow CPZ, they are very inspiring. One of my friends was a referee for a touch flag football league last year, and I may check with him to see if I can do some shootings with him this year (gotta start somewhere. ) I have a 70-200mm f/2.8 with 1.4x converter, but do you think a 300mm f/2.8 lens would be more beneficial? I'll be using a 1D, BTW. Thanks in advance for any advice.

--
Ray Chen

KevinMorris said:

I have the opportunity to shoot some high school football this year
from the sidelines. I will be using the 10D. I have a couple of
questions.

1. My current long lens is too slow. I am considering the Canon
70-200L f2.8. Is that lens long enough for football? Has anyone
used it and have examples? I am also considering the Sigma 130-400
f2.8 and would appreciate feedback on that lens also. I will be
using a Bogen monopod.

2. I currently don't have a flash. Is it OK to use a flash on the
sidelines, does it interfere with play? Will using Flash make much
of a difference in this setting.

Any advice on shooting this subject and feedback on my specific
questions would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Kevin

Click to expand...

--
billtoo
http://www.pbase.com/billtoo

Hey Bob,

Long time no see. I hope your summer went well. I was wonder what happened to you and the rest of the high school shoots. I started the "The Week In High School Sports" ( http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=5873486 ) again but its got lost in all the Rebel-D/300D talk

Bob Markey II said:

The 70-200 2.8 is a great lens. It's sometimes a little short for
football, but you will have lots of cropping power.

I use the 70-200 on manual at 2.8, 250th-320th, with 550EX on ETTL
at +1/2 to +3.4. ETTL stinks, but that is another issue. I start at
ISO 200-400 depending on light (shoot like crazy before the sun
sets during early season games) and end up at ISO 800.

Flash is fine (and expected) here on South Florida's poorly lighted
fields.

Experiment with your flash compensation, depending on jersey color.
Fire away and you'll be fine. I even got some good shots with the
D30.

Here are some archived shots (check last fall's dates):
http://www.palmswestpress.com/photos.htm

Good luck and remember to join our high school sports thread each
week.

-------------------------------
Bob Markey II
http://www.palmswestpress.com
Royal Palm Beach/Wellington, Fla.

Click to expand...

--
Scott A Sanders

'The biggest cause of trouble in the world today is that the stupid people are so sure about things and the intelligent folks are so full of doubts.'
-- Bertrand Russell

You have a GREAT gallery!

What lens/camera did you use? Are most of the images you have crops or is that full frame? There is some noise so I assume you are using ISO 1600.

Anyways thanks for posting, I hope to have a few as good as yours in a few weeks.

Kevin

CPZ said:

When you first arrive at the game you need to do a few test shots
and determine your proper exposure(easy to do with digital). The
early sept games also have alot of ambient sunlight to so remember
to adjust the shutter speed to compensate as the sun goes down. I
usually start shooting using ISO 800 1/500th- 1/800th @ f/2.8 that
doesn't last very long and I end up shooting most of the game at
ISO 1600 1/250th -1/320th. These changes are very easy to make if
you just leave it on manual

A few other things to remember are that most fields have a "hot
spot" some where between the 40 yd lines where the field will be
much brighter.
The light in the endzones will drop off by 1-2 stops the back
corners are the worst. If you have to use flash just use it for
fill and not the primary light
If you are shooting with the action coming towards you try and keep
one eye open and on the action so you don't get run over.

http://www.pbase.com/cpz/college_fooball

Click to expand...

I stumbled onto that thread, Scott. Glad to see it, and you, back.

I haven't shot any high school football this fall ... yet ... but I have three schools to cover this season (a new one just opened). I did manage some youth football shots last Saturday (got a nice sunburn).

See:

http://www.palmswestpress.com/images/WCFL_08_17_03/WCFL_08_17_03.htm

Scott Sanders said:

Long time no see. I hope your summer went well. I was wonder what
happened to you and the rest of the high school shoots. I started
the "The Week In High School Sports"

( http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=5873486 ) again but its got lost in all the Rebel-D/300D talk

Bob Markey II said:

The 70-200 2.8 is a great lens. It's sometimes a little short for
football, but you will have lots of cropping power.

I use the 70-200 on manual at 2.8, 250th-320th, with 550EX on ETTL
at +1/2 to +3.4. ETTL stinks, but that is another issue. I start at
ISO 200-400 depending on light (shoot like crazy before the sun
sets during early season games) and end up at ISO 800.

Flash is fine (and expected) here on South Florida's poorly lighted
fields.

Experiment with your flash compensation, depending on jersey color.
Fire away and you'll be fine. I even got some good shots with the
D30.

Here are some archived shots (check last fall's dates):
http://www.palmswestpress.com/photos.htm

Good luck and remember to join our high school sports thread each
week.

-------------------------------
Bob Markey II
http://www.palmswestpress.com
Royal Palm Beach/Wellington, Fla.

Click to expand...

--
Scott A Sanders
'The biggest cause of trouble in the world today is that the stupid
people are so sure about things and the intelligent folks are so
full of doubts.'
-- Bertrand Russell

Click to expand...

--
-------------------------------
Bob Markey II
http://www.palmswestpress.com
Royal Palm Beach/Wellington, Fla.