Infighting?

tt321 · Jan 7, 2017

Is it my perception or is it true that since the introduction of two hugely important flagship cameras, which promise to take the format up a level in both professional photography and professional videography, in this forum we have engaged in a much more fierce form of inter-brand fighting?

Surprisingly and different from previous experience, the FF people have not descended down on us in force at a time like this. Perhaps they observe that we are at each other's throats so are just sitting back with popcorn?

As usual, threads with the most fireworks also contain the most information and technical details and are thus most worth reading.

windmillgolfer · Jan 7, 2017

Can't say I've noticed a particular peak but then I read only a few Olympus threads as I have only Panasonic cameras (5). I handled Olympus when looking to buy M43 but didn't like the handling or menus, by them I'd been using Panasonic Compacts for a few years. So, maybe, the choice of M43 supplier was inevitable. Very happy with GF7 and G80

While FF cameras have that in common, they have very different, incompatible, lens mounts. So, switching to a latest body form another make is a much bigger decision and less likely. I guess Canon and Nikon do not actually follow-up on announcements by the opposition, just their own brand.

LMNCT · Jan 7, 2017

Just the usual sibling silliness. At the end of the day, we are all in the Micro Four Thirds family.

Terminal Boy · Jan 7, 2017

Not from where I'm sitting.

I'm a Panasonic user who is delighted to see Olympus and any other manufacturers of MFT equipment shower us with new goodies.

Clayton1985 · Jan 7, 2017

Sorry, couldn't resist

. Seriously, the "infighting" is no different than the majority of full frame users that engage in discussions here. Everyone wants their point of view about their chosen equipment to be understood and most people don't have a lot of interest in understanding the other points of view. Sure, there are a few FF lovers out there that only want to troll but from what I've observed that is a very small percentage. The problem is simply that those posting about FF are no better than the rest of us in that they aren't trying too hard to see the other side.

nzmacro · Jan 7, 2017

tt321 said:
Is it my perception or is it true that since the introduction of two hugely important flagship cameras, which promise to take the format up a level in both professional photography and professional videography, in this forum we have engaged in a much more fierce form of inter-brand fighting?

Surprisingly and different from previous experience, the FF people have not descended down on us in force at a time like this. Perhaps they observe that we are at each other's throats so are just sitting back with popcorn?

As usual, threads with the most fireworks also contain the most information and technical details and are thus most worth reading.

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/xiafei/

Don't really know too much about them and both would be a complete waste for me. Fast AF, video, super fast FPS, higher shutter speeds, etc, etc, don't offer anything personally. I just really hope people do their homework well on both camera's and buy what they need. So that's where the posts are good, it sorts out the if's and but's. Some people obviously show a preference to only one brand though which is a little daft. Go for what you want and need, not what's stamped on the box

Most people will anyway, pretty clever in here most people.

FF shooters I don't really see an issue in here most times. Possibly more about m4/3 vs FF rather than FF vs m4/3 users.

If they post in here about FF cameras in the title and its a popular post, it ends up on the front page here at DPR as a popular thread, so FF users will look and come into the thread. So who's fault is that ;-) It seems to be m4/3 users make a bigger deal out of FF rather than the other way around.

Worry about the image that comes out of the box rather than the box itself.

All the best and what flavour is the popcorn. Just salted suits me.

Danny.

--
Flickr albums ..... https://www.flickr.com/photos/124733969@N06/sets/
The need for speed ..... https://www.flickr.com/photos/130646821@N03/

chriskeats · Jan 7, 2017

still learning to get the best from the gear i have

glowingshutter · Jan 7, 2017

There's simply no other way to say it. One brand has pulled ahead technologically, by incorporating the major, headline feature of the other brand (and doing it very well). The brand that's behind has not reciprocated in kind, although it has made a good attempt to do this with its flagship.

I don't expect this situation to last long, of course, as these advantages usually fade with time. Nonetheless, that's the way it stands now. I don't consider it "infighting" to point this out. Brands are rarely always on equal footing, and sometimes one pulls ahead.

One flagship is simply more technologically advanced, coveted by a major group that has no brand or format loyalty. The other isn't. :-( I hope that changes.

Nonetheless, both brands are making advances at lightning pace compared to the old dinosaurs, CaNikon.

bobn2 · Jan 7, 2017

tt321 said:
Is it my perception or is it true that since the introduction of two hugely important flagship cameras, which promise to take the format up a level in both professional photography and professional videography, in this forum we have engaged in a much more fierce form of inter-brand fighting?

Surprisingly and different from previous experience, the FF people have not descended down on us in force at a time like this. Perhaps they observe that we are at each other's throats so are just sitting back with popcorn?

As usual, threads with the most fireworks also contain the most information and technical details and are thus most worth reading.

bobn2 · Jan 7, 2017

glowingshutter said:
Nonetheless, both brands are making advances at lightning pace compared to the old dinosaurs, CaNikon.

Have you tried the new Nikon AF? It's insane.

--
Tinkety tonk old fruit, & down with the Nazis!
Bob

John Byrne · Jan 7, 2017

Wise words Danny, fully agree with this sentiment.

Cheers,

JB

nzmacro · Jan 7, 2017

John Byrne said:
Wise words Danny, fully agree with this sentiment.

Cheers,

JB

I had that in my sig for years here at DPR and just added it again

Here's where it all get tangled up with format and brand freaks.

Chris with a 1Dx MKII with a 400 F/2.8L (good mates) and Gloria. I was sitting next to Steve who uses a Nikon D3, D500 and a 200-500 zoom. The thing is you can't fault the shots they get. The images are just fantastic. shots to be envious of. Yet we all get together and the last thing on our minds is what the others are using. We talk about cameras and lenses naturally, but no one worries too much about it. I said to Chris and Steve just yesterday, its all about compromises when it comes to gear. If there was a perfect one, we would all be using it.

In here we see it all the time about this brand and that format. Who cares at the end of the day. It's the image that counts, not what took it. You can take a lousy shot with any camera (Danny puts his hand up) and you can take a fantastic shot with any of them.

Opp's sorry John, pet hate and getting carried away as usual

All the best John.

Danny.

--
Worry about the image that comes out of the box rather than the box itself
-----------
Birds and BIF's ..... https://www.flickr.com/photos/124733969@N06/sets/
The need for speed ..... https://www.flickr.com/photos/130646821@N03/

glowingshutter · Jan 7, 2017

nzmacro said:
John Byrne said:

Wise words Danny, fully agree with this sentiment.

Cheers,

JB

Click to expand...

I had that in my sig for years here at DPR and just added it again

Here's where it all get tangled up with format and brand freaks.

Chris with a 1Dx MKII with a 400 F/2.8L (good mates) and Gloria. I was sitting next to Steve who uses a Nikon D3, D500 and a 200-500 zoom. The thing is you can't fault the shots they get. The images are just fantastic. shots to be envious of. Yet we all get together and the last thing on our minds is what the others are using. We talk about cameras and lenses naturally, but no one worries too much about it. I said to Chris and Steve just yesterday, its all about compromises when it comes to gear. If there was a perfect one, we would all be using it.

In here we see it all the time about this brand and that format. Who cares at the end of the day. It's the image that counts, not what took it. You can take a lousy shot with any camera (Danny puts his hand up) and you can take a fantastic shot with any of them.

Conversely, if the image is ultimately what counts and assuming both of your cameras don't take equal images and that you guys compare the images out of your cameras, isn't it reasonable to assume that you've compared the two brands and found one to be better suited to the type of shooting you do?

In other words, if you're comparing outputs, you've probably reached some conclusion as to which gear is superior. That is, unless the images out of both cameras are roughly equal, with each excelling at different aspects.

Finally, if you're a "competitive shooter" and need the absolute best gear for the type of shooting you do, it's natural that you would reject some cameras out of hand as not capable of performing to your expectations. And this goes for stills and video IMO.

nzmacro said:
Opp's sorry John, pet hate and getting carried away as usual

All the best John.

Danny.

--
Worry about the image that comes out of the box rather than the box itself
-----------
Birds and BIF's ..... https://www.flickr.com/photos/124733969@N06/sets/
The need for speed ..... https://www.flickr.com/photos/130646821@N03/

dv312 · Jan 7, 2017

Maybe

Infighting between a small subset of folks who need both stills and video

Stills only know what they want

Ditto for video only

They stick to their camp and their choice is obvious

Cheers,

KTMfan · Jan 7, 2017

Personally, I think it's just some weirdarse camera thing. Or, more precisely, the weirdarses that seem to be attracted to them. For some unknow reason. I participate a little bit in a couple of bicycle and motorcycle forums. The couple I frequent have nothing even remotely like a lot of the pettiness and childish behavior that goes on here. And a couple of other photography forums I browse. There is nothing like the fanbois flapping their gums and trying to forever one up others. It's rather bizarre to be honest. No one cares how expensive the bike you're interested in, or bought is. No one cares what brand it is. What size wheels it has. Or how many gears. Or how big the engine is. As long as it suits your purpose, and you're happy with it, that's all that matters. I've never seen anywhere that gets so obsessed with tiny little near indistinguishable differences as camera/lens forumtographers. It's not as if they're crazy stupid expensive or anything. Bicycle and motorcycle addictions are far far more damaging to your bank account if you get it wrong. Truly mind boggling at times. Just my 20 cents

nzmacro · Jan 7, 2017

glowingshutter said:
nzmacro said:

John Byrne said:

Wise words Danny, fully agree with this sentiment.

Cheers,

JB

Click to expand...

I had that in my sig for years here at DPR and just added it again

Here's where it all get tangled up with format and brand freaks.

Chris with a 1Dx MKII with a 400 F/2.8L (good mates) and Gloria. I was sitting next to Steve who uses a Nikon D3, D500 and a 200-500 zoom. The thing is you can't fault the shots they get. The images are just fantastic. shots to be envious of. Yet we all get together and the last thing on our minds is what the others are using. We talk about cameras and lenses naturally, but no one worries too much about it. I said to Chris and Steve just yesterday, its all about compromises when it comes to gear. If there was a perfect one, we would all be using it.

In here we see it all the time about this brand and that format. Who cares at the end of the day. It's the image that counts, not what took it. You can take a lousy shot with any camera (Danny puts his hand up) and you can take a fantastic shot with any of them.

Click to expand...

Conversely, if the image is ultimately what counts and assuming both of your cameras don't take equal images and that you guys compare the images out of your cameras, isn't it reasonable to assume that you've compared the two brands and found one to be better suited to the type of shooting you do?

In other words, if you're comparing outputs, you've probably reached some conclusion as to which gear is superior. That is, unless the images out of both cameras are roughly equal, with each excelling at different aspects.

Now I've got to quote myself from above ........

" I said to Chris and Steve just yesterday, its all about compromises when it comes to gear."

So yeah.

glowingshutter said:
Finally, if you're a "competitive shooter" and need the absolute best gear for the type of shooting you do, it's natural that you would reject some cameras out of hand as not capable of performing to your expectations. And this goes for stills and video IMO.

I'm not competitive. Don't need to be really. I certainly wouldn't use a pinhole camera, put it that way. I also wouldn't use an 8mm lens for a BIF 100 meters away either, just like I wouldn't use an 800mm lens at 5 meters.

I do my homework and buy what I know will work, so my expectations I already know beforehand.

That's how I see it anyway.

Danny.

--
Worry about the image that comes out of the box rather than the box itself
-----------
Birds and BIF's ..... https://www.flickr.com/photos/124733969@N06/sets/
The need for speed ..... https://www.flickr.com/photos/130646821@N03/

chriskeats · Jan 7, 2017

SpinOne · Jan 7, 2017

tt321 said:
Is it my perception or is it true that... in this forum we have engaged in a much more fierce form of inter-brand fighting?

It's your imagination.

This is very typical.

tt321 said:
Surprisingly and different from previous experience, the FF people have not descended down on us in force at a time like this.

That's also your imagination.

People who own other camera brands exclusively rarely troll this subforum.

OzRay · Jan 7, 2017

glowingshutter said:
Finally, if you're a "competitive shooter" and need the absolute best gear for the type of shooting you do, it's natural that you would reject some cameras out of hand as not capable of performing to your expectations. And this goes for stills and video IMO.

That argument does not hold water. In my news and sports days, I was using Olympus gear and my peers were all using either Nikon or Canon.

Two things to note; my photographs always received genuine positive compliments from my peers and my newspaper editors always complimented me on my results. That is all that matters.

I did not use what some might consider the 'absolute best' gear available, yet I was satisfying my newspaper week after week, year after year, with my work.

In photography, you are only competing against yourself.

glowingshutter · Jan 7, 2017

OzRay said:
glowingshutter said:

Finally, if you're a "competitive shooter" and need the absolute best gear for the type of shooting you do, it's natural that you would reject some cameras out of hand as not capable of performing to your expectations. And this goes for stills and video IMO.

Click to expand...

That argument does not hold water. In my news and sports days, I was using Olympus gear and my peers were all using either Nikon or Canon.

Two things to note; my photographs always received genuine positive compliments from my peers and my newspaper editors always complimented me on my results. That is all that matters.

I could have stated it better. If you're not seeing improvements at a level that actually matters with more expensive and much larger gear, then, IMO, you're using the best gear possible for the job. If you're getting complements on the results by pros, and they're comparing your work to everyone else in the same field, even those using much larger and more expensive cameras, then you probably are using the best gear. The best gear isn't necessarily the largest and most expensive. It's the one best suited to what you're doing.

For instance, when you're doing street photography, which camera is better suited to the job, a 5D IV or a GM5 or GX85. IMO, a GM5 or GX85 is better suited to the job and will actually yield better results. Why? Because they're less obtrusive and are less likely to elicit a response from people. If your goal is to blend in and not change peoples' behavior when you're shooting, a 5D IV isn't suited to that. You announce your presence when you're using that camera. You don't with a small MFT.

This is the same principle that guides a lot of my purchase decisions. My goal usually is to not stand out, but to still get the best results possible. And, even though I have no trouble carrying heavier gear, I think MFT is best for the job.

Another issue is that if you're getting older and have trouble carrying heavy gear, but you still need a long telephoto lens for wildlife, what system is most likely to yield the best results for you? Well, if you can't carry it or hold the lens in position for a long enough period, the choice is clear.

Video is another matter entirely, as MFT actually yields the best results for that, hands down. In other words, I don't think I can match the same results with Canon or Nikon, regardless of what gear I use.

OzRay said:
I did not use what some might consider the 'absolute best' gear available, yet I was satisfying my newspaper week after week, year after year, with my work.

In photography, you are only competing against yourself.

--
Thoughts, Musings, Ideas and Images from South Gippsland
http://australianimage.com.au

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