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Nikon D810 Successor

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BasilG said:
True if what is referred to is linear resolution, but at the same time highly unnecessary nitpicking in this context.
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We have different starting points, and maybe different photographic experiences.

It is reasonable to expect at least 25% more resolution going from 12 to 24 MP (using any lens) and at least 15% more going from 24 to to 36 MP;- though even with excellent technique nowhere near double.

I do not regard these real world differences compared to "double" as nitpicking.

--
Leonard Shepherd
Good photography is usually more about what you do with the equipment you own rather than what equipment you own.
 
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ejw07 said:
No D820... its going to be D900 but not so much of a jump in Technology wifi yes.. lower pixels yes
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I don't see why Nikon would use the D900 number unless they are going to do something that is a complete departure from the D8x0 series. I don't think that they are.
 
ejw07 said:
No D820... its going to be D900 but not so much of a jump in Technology wifi yes.. lower pixels yes

--
E.W.
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Yes I would wager on that.

Bob has a lot of knowledge but I think he's wrong on the 820 bit and the sensor type.

--
C-M
 
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If we accept the current Sony 42 mb sensor has been around for awhile then it's likely Sony has been working on an upgrade for awhile. No? Or have they totally stopped developing sensors?

You could say that every single new sensor didn't exist until the day it was announced. It didn't stop them being announced.
 
Thinking of coming back to Nikon from Fuji X cameras... I do street and have 2 Pro's 2, I can give up one and get my D810 back...is it worth it now to get the 810 (cheaper) now i want it for macro...

D810 + 105 Macro + BG
 
bobn2 said:
rubank said:
bobn2 said:
NickZ2016 said:
That's not the question either.

During the expected lifetime of the 820 will that sensor be the best? Or will it quickly be beaten?
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Very possibly. Where do you think that Nikon will get something better?
bobn2 said:
I can't believe Nikon will be shipping the D820 with only the present in mind. They'll want something that they can keep selling for a number of years.
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Sure, but where are they going to get this new sensor? They have already developed or had developed two completely new sensors, that will have drawn down a good part of their R&D budget, so where will the next come from.
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Samsung?
A FF version of their excellent (BSI) 28 Mp aps-c sensor would give ~63 Mp.

Now that would be something!

;)
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Sony could do it too. Capability is not the problem. You think that Samsung is just going to give Nikon a sensor?
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What an odd conclusion to draw from what little I said (with a twink).

Of course Samsung won´t "give it away", but Samsung has the tech and have already taken the cost of developing it and while they have left the digital camera business one way to get something back of the R&D is selling sensors to others.
And by the way, Sony has yet to rival some of the Samsung sensor features.
 
rubank said:
bobn2 said:
rubank said:
bobn2 said:
NickZ2016 said:
That's not the question either.

During the expected lifetime of the 820 will that sensor be the best? Or will it quickly be beaten?
Click to expand...
Very possibly. Where do you think that Nikon will get something better?
rubank said:
I can't believe Nikon will be shipping the D820 with only the present in mind. They'll want something that they can keep selling for a number of years.
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Sure, but where are they going to get this new sensor? They have already developed or had developed two completely new sensors, that will have drawn down a good part of their R&D budget, so where will the next come from.
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Samsung?
A FF version of their excellent (BSI) 28 Mp aps-c sensor would give ~63 Mp.

Now that would be something!

;)
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Sony could do it too. Capability is not the problem. You think that Samsung is just going to give Nikon a sensor?
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What an odd conclusion to draw from what little I said (with a twink).

Of course Samsung won´t "give it away", but Samsung has the tech and have already taken the cost of developing it and while they have left the digital camera business one way to get something back of the R&D is selling sensors to others.
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The point I was making is that this is not an availability problem, it is a Nikon R&D resource problem. As for the R&D cost, yes, Samsung has developed the underlying tech, but each new sensor design has design and manufacturing costs associated. If that sensor is being produced for just one customer, that customer must bear all of this costs. In the case of a commodity part, the costs are shared amongst many customers.
rubank said:
And by the way, Sony has yet to rival some of the Samsung sensor features.
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Such as?

--
Tinkety tonk old fruit, & down with the Nazis!
Bob
 
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Leonard Shepherd said:
BasilG said:
True if what is referred to is linear resolution, but at the same time highly unnecessary nitpicking in this context.
Click to expand...
We have different starting points, and maybe different photographic experiences.

It is reasonable to expect at least 25% more resolution going from 12 to 24 MP (using any lens) and at least 15% more going from 24 to to 36 MP;- though even with excellent technique nowhere near double.

I do not regard these real world differences compared to "double" as nitpicking.
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It's obvious that Thom meant doubling of the pixel count, not of linear resolution. I do not think that this merits any further discussion.
 
Was told today its going to be D850... the store that told me has stopped stocks of the D810 in the recent days and speculated an announcement as early as next week.

This is the leading dealer in my area... so yeah lets just see what happens! :)
 
DSix said:
Was told today its going to be D850... the store that told me has stopped stocks of the D810 in the recent days and speculated an announcement as early as next week.

This is the leading dealer in my area... so yeah lets just see what happens! :)
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I wonder if it will be a 42 or a 42.66 MP; on specs one could have

42 MP = 6*X*X > X = sqrt (42/6) = 2645 pixel

that is: short side of sensor 5290 pixel; long one 7935 (5290 x 1.5) = 42 MP

BUT - should Nikon find the way to impress breaking the 8000 pixel barrier it would be

8000 long side, 5334 short side > 8000 x 5334 = 42.66 MP

Better still, rounding to the closest hundreds 5400 x 8100 = 43.74 MP

Price ? I'd say 100 Eur / MP, that is something ranging from 3999 Eur to 4499 Eur

My bet

Oh and btw, the D500 has already a 21 MP sensor that would equate to something in the 46.5 - 47.5 MP FF sensor - not even mentioning the D7200 and the like which allowed to think for a 56+ MP sensor.

Math is 6000x9000 = 54 MP.. but maybe we're dreaming too high lol.

--
All the best from northern Italy, Dino.
I'm on the NIK side of photography.
 
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bobn2 said:
Escaping said:
Of course, I don't have any inside knowledge of Nikon plan but here are some speculations for the fun of closing this 2016 and looking into 2017:

- D820: a 50+ Mp sensor inside the D500 body with the CAM20K AF for Nikon to compete with the high resolution market that now includes the new medium format players

- D780: as the D810 is retired from production, the body platform of the D760 picks up the 36Mp slot while retaining the CAM3500 AF- basically a D810 in the smaller D760 body.
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The D500 body is essentially the D750 body, just some different types of switches/wheels on it. So, I suspect you're right, but I don't think Nikon will go 50+, I think they'll use the 42MP BSI sensor from the A7RII. Two reasons, one - it is a fantastic sensor, probably overall the nest made, second, generally Nikon only introduces one new Sony sources sensor and one of its own over a product cycle, and it's already used that R&D budget with the D5 and a sony special for the D500, so I expect the rest of the range is off-the-shelf Sony. I think the BSI capability will more than make up for the slight deficit in resolution compared to the Canon, and it will likely be a faster camera, too.

Whether they stay at 24MP or make the jump to 36 for the next step down is interesting. Not sure what they do.
bobn2 said:
- DF2: anniversary retro design with ergonomic improvements from the DF. This model would get the 36Mp sensor also, as well as the better CAM3500 AF module.
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Can't see it, I think the DF was a one off. If they are doing an anniversary special, it's more likely to be an FF mirrorless, with a short variant of the electronic diaphragm/AF-S version of the F mount (with simple adapter, like the Canon EOS-M mount, probably in the box) posing as a revived Nikon S series
bobn2 said:
- D620: taking over the D750 position, retaining the 24Mp sensor, but getting the better CAM-3500 AF.
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I'm betting they'll pass on that. I reckon that the D750 was the planned D620, the marketing department had a last minute wheeze of branding it as a new series. The range looks too crowded as it is.
bobn2 said:
- D5X may be announced in 2017 for delivery in 2018 with a 60Mp to claim the top resolution in FF land and a D5S also in 2018 with improvements to the present 20.9 Mp sensor.
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Can't see a D5X, that ship has sailed. D5s for sure, there is always an 's' version of the top range model. (the others too, they just change the naming convention, so the D800s was called the D810 instead)
bobn2 said:
- D900: late 2017, with the present 20.9Mp sensor inside a D500-like platform, the way the D700 was to the D3.
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That wouldn't be like the D700 was to the D3. D5 and D500 are completely different cameras. I can't see it happening, either. Just makes everything too crowded. It would be extremely similar to the D760 (which as I say is essentially the same platform as the D500)
bobn2 said:
A busy enough plan for Nikon? ... nice to speculate but I think Nikon will only do half of this in the next 12 months. Cheers and Happy New Year to everybody.
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They will only do half of it ever. No 'D900', no D5X, probably no D620, possibly no follow up to the Df
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bobn2 said:
As for the sensor, it depends on what you think the D820 is and who it's aimed at. If you think it's a pure high res machine, then it will need more than 50MP. On the other hand, if you look at it as a capable all round mating, 42MP sounds ideal. With the latest expends Nikon could match the 5DIV for frame rate with the advantage of 12MP extra and the best AF in the business. I think that would be quite a saleable camera and have a much broader market than a slow high MP machine.

--
Tinkety tonk old fruit, & down with the Nazis!
Bob
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As someone who has been shooting the A7RII and D750 combo, I actually would welcome the idea of a D820 equipped with an improved version of the 42mp A7RII sensor, esp if it supports higher FPS ... 7 would be good enough for most purposes.

Using the semi-functional F->FE adapter on the A7RII, the picture quality/bokeh of shots made by adapted Nikkors like 24-70/2.8, 70-200 f/4 VR, 80-400 AF-S VR or 85/1.8G are simply marvelous - when AF actually works. That 42mp sensor on a Sony body still maintain the trademark Nikkor colors, which I like a lot better than even Zeiss color found on the native FE 24-70/2.8.

That 42mp sensor and Nikon lenses would be a match made in a heaven. no kidding.

Now, only if Nikon would produce something like a F-mount A7RII that can actually AF in video.....
 
PXL700 said:
bobn2 said:
As for the sensor, it depends on what you think the D820 is and who it's aimed at. If you think it's a pure high res machine, then it will need more than 50MP. On the other hand, if you look at it as a capable all round mating, 42MP sounds ideal. With the latest expends Nikon could match the 5DIV for frame rate with the advantage of 12MP extra and the best AF in the business. I think that would be quite a saleable camera and have a much broader market than a slow high MP machine.

--
Tinkety tonk old fruit, & down with the Nazis!
Bob
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As someone who has been shooting the A7RII and D750 combo, I actually would welcome the idea of a D820 equipped with an improved version of the 42mp A7RII sensor, esp if it supports higher FPS ... 7 would be good enough for most purposes.

Using the semi-functional F->FE adapter on the A7RII, the picture quality/bokeh of shots made by adapted Nikkors like 24-70/2.8, 70-200 f/4 VR, 80-400 AF-S VR or 85/1.8G are simply marvelous - when AF actually works. That 42mp sensor on a Sony body still maintain the trademark Nikkor colors, which I like a lot better than even Zeiss color found on the native FE 24-70/2.8.

That 42mp sensor and Nikon lenses would be a match made in a heaven. no kidding.

Now, only if Nikon would produce something like a F-mount A7RII that can actually AF in video.....
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And I would much rather have the D4S sensor in the D500 body. Not thrilled about high-resolution files, as they are mostly unnecessary unless one prints large size.
 
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bobn2 said:
rubank said:
bobn2 said:
They have already developed or had developed two completely new sensors, that will have drawn down a good part of their R&D budget, so where will the next come from.
Click to expand...
Samsung?
A FF version of their excellent (BSI) 28 Mp aps-c sensor would give ~63 Mp.
Click to expand...
You think that Samsung is just going to give Nikon a sensor?
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Hang fire....did Nikon not buy Samsung's sensor fab last year?
 
bobn2 said:
TOF guy said:
Says a lot about how little we know :-D

Thom Hogan suggests 72 MP as a logical move for the D810 successor, doubling the resolution.
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Not for the first time I've disagreed with Thom on these matters. Our record is about 50-50.
bobn2 said:
IMO it can't be less than circa 50 MP, i.e. matching the Canon high res 5D at least. Resolution is still one yardstick by which a camera is judged. It is also the D8xx series landmark feature.
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Actually, I think that's a misunderstanding of what the D800 and its successors is and was about. These cameras have never solely been about high resolution as was the 5Ds and D3X. Their crop modes, particularly the 1.2x and the increased speeds available (Canon's 5Ds crop mode doesn't speed the camera up and only works in JPEG). So, the D8x0 end up being about the best all around cameras available, for people who want just one body. They have available high resolution and they can match the competition for speed in crop modes. It's that which allowed the D800 to compete effectively against the 5DIII
bobn2 said:
Nikon captured then lost the HR crown. It makes sense that it tries to recover that crown and even put some distance with Canon as the sensor has to hold the competition back for 4 years or so until the following generation comes.
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I think it's a different crown, though it does depend on how they see the D760. One real possibility is that the D750 and D820 replacements are pretty much the same camera, with different sensor resolutions in which case the D820, or D760X would be more than 42MP.
bobn2 said:
Point taken about the 42 MP sensor: IMO it's not a "dinosaur" as there is still nothing better. Plus a high FPS 42 MP camera would be more useful for most than a not so fast 72 MP D820. But Nikon's decisions are often about how to position itself better compared to its competition more than anything else. The 42 MP is just too much of a "me too".
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On reflection I think that Nikon might have different ideas what to do with this space than simply continue with the D8x0 and D7x0 lines as they are. They still might call the resulting cameras D820 and D760, but in truth it's very likely that they are essentially the same camera (although AF and controls might vary). Logically, you'd expect the D5 AF, it that's one of the ingredients in play, to go with the lower res version, since that is more likely to be used for action photography.
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Mike Riach said:
Mike Riach said:
Bigger is not necessarily better but as both Nikon and Canon have shown, various sensor options can be made available within a model range.
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The D820 perhaps with the 42mp which is highly acclaimed and a specialist option in a D820A or whatever for the next step. Giving upgraded focusing, higher frame rate, bigger buffer, reduced mirror slap (or similar issues) etc with a 42mp sensor makes a lot of sense to me. Just look at the 5DIV, 30mp.
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I agree -- 42MB would be plenty -- lets hope Nikon goes for even more superior Image Quality and for me this starts with an expanded Dynamic Range - the ideal would by 16-bit performance and even better Low Light performance; while retaining or improving on the 64 base ISO.

Of course -- twin XQD cards, a much bigger buffer (100 shots would be great), the D5's autofocus and touchscreen are vital.

I would also like the new D810 to use the same interchangable Nikon DK-27 Eyepiece Adapter as the d5 - to allow "me" to quickly shift from normal to my new DR-5 90 degree viewfinder very quickly - it makes far more sense for a camera that will be used low to have this built in.

Obviously, since the success of the D500's touch and tilt screen - the D810 successor could benefit from this too --- but only if there is no loss of weather sealing.

AJM

www.andymillerphoto.co.uk

Andy Miller Photo UK

Retired Wildlife photographer
www.andymillerphoto.co.uk www.andymillerphoto.co.uk
 
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Nikon Rumors just twittered that a Nikon D850 will be announced this week. Maybe true.

Rick
 
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