Well so much for the ethic of the GM line.

New GX850 is a hunk of trash that does nothing useful and combines the worst of everything before it.
Ever heard of an entry level camera? If you're not in the entry level market, then why even look at it.
It manages to be bigger, with no EVF or hotshoe and a worthless flash that can't be tipped up. Dedicated 4K button you can't reprogram.
The GM line wasn't really an entry level line. This camera is directed at the "selfie" crowd and those looking to wade into the ILC market.

Even if the GM line was slightly smaller, this camera is freaking small at 269g.

9d08380a4766400a8ad4b50e6a0bdfc2.jpg

And it has something that many of you were begging for, a tilty screen instead of a FAS. Granted, the pivot point is higher than normal because it's designed for selfies, but this will still work for street shooting. And it will work very well for it.

And in your rant about the 4K button, you forgot to applaud the camera for actually shooting 4K to begin with, in a tiny, portable body. That's really not something to just take for granted.

So, in fact, this camera does 2 things better than the GM line, the screen and the video.

I can see this camera appealing to run and gun shooters for sure.
Panasonic is just so frustrating and baffling. They come up with some amazing and innovative concepts and then manage to almost immediately destroy them.

Ah well, at least this one won't cost me any money! Shall continue to treat my GM1 with respect and care as I'm sure GM5 users will as well.

End rant!
Weird rant about an entry level camera. I honestly don't see how that title is even allowed on this forum, but more power to you. ;-)
EDIT: I should add of course they do an awful lot right too of course. The original G line still being more refined and capable most notably in the G85. Can't win em all I guess!

--
Ken W
See profile for equipment list
 
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As one GM lover to another, I understand your frustration.

I honestly feel Panasonic made a good marketing decision. If they had made a GM7 it would have been a repeat of their GM5 experience. Everyone would gush over it, but no one would buy it until some deep discounting happened.
Yep, I get that. In fact usually when an entry level camera comes out that I'm not interested in I hope it will be successful because the more users of any kind in m43 the better for everyone.

In this case I also wonder if there could be another factor in play. Even if Panasonic has or had a game plan for a GM follow on it could have been delayed or triaged away after the earthquake induced sensor production shortage. Consider the Nikon DL series which is probably targeting a similar market to the GM. That's been on hold for almost a whole year now! So if there is anything constraining supply manufacturers have to decide where to allocate their resources in the short term and a GM follow on not likely to be the top choice for the reasons you describe.
 
As one GM lover to another, I understand your frustration.

I honestly feel Panasonic made a good marketing decision. If they had made a GM7 it would have been a repeat of their GM5 experience. Everyone would gush over it, but no one would buy it until some deep discounting happened.
Yep, I get that. In fact usually when an entry level camera comes out that I'm not interested in I hope it will be successful because the more users of any kind in m43 the better for everyone.

In this case I also wonder if there could be another factor in play. Even if Panasonic has or had a game plan for a GM follow on it could have been delayed or triaged away after the earthquake induced sensor production shortage. Consider the Nikon DL series which is probably targeting a similar market to the GM. That's been on hold for almost a whole year now! So if there is anything constraining supply manufacturers have to decide where to allocate their resources in the short term and a GM follow on not likely to be the top choice for the reasons you describe.
 
I think that 4k in such a small size, with good overall features and some (minor) improvements make the Gf9 a fairly interesting camera.

The only thing that bothers me a lot is the lack of hotshoe :/
 
I agree...only rationale might be to swap it into a cell phone in order to send pictures to others w/o using wireless transfer??? I have the GF7 and am about to buy a larger faster SDXC card, and then this bad news comes...
Calling it worthless trash is a bit much...

For me the only nasty surprise was that it uses Micro SD cards. Not the end of the world, but they're fiddly and easy to lose, and it just seems unnecessary considering Panasonic could fit a full sized card in the little GM1.
 


New GX850 is a hunk of trash that does nothing useful and combines the worst of everything before it.
A bit melodramatic.
Well of course! Rants aren't typically understated ;)

It's DPR. When in Rome...
Well, yes, but a rant with extreme opinion is fine; but when it simply gets the facts wrong -- like all cameras today, this is an amazingly capable little box -- it is silly.
You did not read Ken's itemized list of complaints? If that list of items is important to you it follows that this camera is a piece of worthless junk, to you.

It's the globalization from the personal that's the problem, but it's a very personal rant.
 
Because the reality is, if Panasonic had created a GM7 we would all ogle over it, but very few of us would be willing to pay $1,000 for it. Not for a second camera.
Except that it is almost good enough (the GM1 is certainly good enough for me) to be a first camera; and if Panasonic manages to add IBIS and bring the mechanical shutter speed up to at least 1/1000, there would be no reason to choose a GX00 over it. But as long as the GX00 series occupy the sweet spot in terms of price, there is no room for the GM series. Having said that, the sensible course, as far as I am concerned, would be to downsize the GX0 to GX00 proportions and the GX00 to GM proportions; and Panasonic will probably have to do it (or at least I hope so), as soon as Canon develops a bit more its mirrorless offerings, which are already compact enough to compete with m4/3 cameras.

http://camerasize.com/compact/#684.348,673.34,599.608,570.397,ha,t
 
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It does kind of seem like the death stroke for the GM line.
Most people already had the impression that the GM/GF line was dead, so the fact that this camera exists at all is a bit of a surprise. I'm glad it exists, because it shows Panasonic hasn't completely abandoned the super compact M43 line.

Would it be better if the GX850 didn't exist at all?
 
It does kind of seem like the death stroke for the GM line.
Most people already had the impression that the GM/GF line was dead, so the fact that this camera exists at all is a bit of a surprise. I'm glad it exists, because it shows Panasonic hasn't completely abandoned the super compact M43 line.

Would it be better if the GX850 didn't exist at all?
I don't know how you can interpret my comment to mean that... I was just saying that this shows that Panasonic chose to target the "casual" market more than the "enthusiast" market when they made the GX850. They could have gone the GM direction or the GF direction and they chose the GF direction; it seems unlikely, given their new naming scheme, that there is any space for a GM after this.
 
It's the GF9, so of course they went the GF direction....maybe the GF7/GF8 sold better than the GM's worldwide and/or had higher profit margins.

They could have gone the GM direction or the GF direction and they chose the GF direction; it seems unlikely, given their new naming scheme, that there is any space for a GM after this.
 
I think that the GF9 is probably built to the price point where Panasonic can make a good profit on such a camera.

Pity that most users want something like a GM1 or GM5 at this price point not a camera such as the simplified larger bodied GF9 made for less involved users.

Therefore I predict that the GF9 will be no more success world wide than the previous GF models and probably relegated to the same market as the GF8 - the domestic Japanese market.
 
It's the GF9, so of course they went the GF direction....maybe the GF7/GF8 sold better than the GM's worldwide and/or had higher profit margins.
They could have gone the GM direction or the GF direction and they chose the GF direction; it seems unlikely, given their new naming scheme, that there is any space for a GM after this.
At least in Japan, the GF lines has been one of (if not 'the') best selling Panasonic camera lines over the years. I haven't heard the GM line doing well in any market unfortunately.
 
I just bought a GM5 after reading the new press release. Nothing that interested me in the new one and some features removed...
I think that the GF9 is probably built to the price point where Panasonic can make a good profit on such a camera.

Pity that most users want something like a GM1 or GM5 at this price point not a camera such as the simplified larger bodied GF9 made for less involved users.

Therefore I predict that the GF9 will be no more success world wide than the previous GF models and probably relegated to the same market as the GF8 - the domestic Japanese market.

--
Tom Caldwell
I talked at length with a Panasonic rep a few weeks back. He said outside of Japan NO ONE bought the GM cameras. It was there worst selling model.

That made me kind of sad, but I completely understand.

I think this new model is mostly for females in Japan and their larger models are for the US and Europe.

--
One of the last Samsung Zombie system users. And still waiting for something to come close.
 
I think that the GF9 is probably built to the price point where Panasonic can make a good profit on such a camera.

Pity that most users want something like a GM1 or GM5 at this price point not a camera such as the simplified larger bodied GF9 made for less involved users.

Therefore I predict that the GF9 will be no more success world wide than the previous GF models and probably relegated to the same market as the GF8 - the domestic Japanese market.
 
I just bought a GM5 after reading the new press release. Nothing that interested me in the new one and some features removed...
If you are in any way an enthusiast then I think that you will be more pleased with the GM5. The GF7/8/9, although quite small it is not truly as compact as the GM5 in a niche market where square millimetres mean a lot.

In practice there is probably not a lot to choose from in their imaging capability except that the GF9 has picked up a few frills that could possibly be included in a GM5 if Panasonic ever changed their spots and made an effort to firmware upgrade where they could do so.
I think that the GF9 is probably built to the price point where Panasonic can make a good profit on such a camera.

Pity that most users want something like a GM1 or GM5 at this price point not a camera such as the simplified larger bodied GF9 made for less involved users.

Therefore I predict that the GF9 will be no more success world wide than the previous GF models and probably relegated to the same market as the GF8 - the domestic Japanese market.
 
Keep in mind that the GX85 is a brick compared to the GM series. Just ordered a GM5 for this reason...
I think that the GF9 is probably built to the price point where Panasonic can make a good profit on such a camera.

Pity that most users want something like a GM1 or GM5 at this price point not a camera such as the simplified larger bodied GF9 made for less involved users.

Therefore I predict that the GF9 will be no more success world wide than the previous GF models and probably relegated to the same market as the GF8 - the domestic Japanese market.

--
Tom Caldwell
I talked at length with a Panasonic rep a few weeks back. He said outside of Japan NO ONE bought the GM cameras. It was there worst selling model.

That made me kind of sad, but I completely understand.

I think this new model is mostly for females in Japan and their larger models are for the US and Europe.

--
One of the last Samsung Zombie system users. And still waiting for something to come close.
Interesting. I must have cornered the Australian market :)

I admit that I had to buy mine via the internet as I never noticed them being stocked by retailers. But the fact is that retailers just sell stuff and they simply will not stock items that they think are priced to high to easily sell. So if your retailer will not stock them then what chance has any product in the "everyman" market?

Retailers also like to sell multiple units of what gives them a good margin. A sophisticated tiny camera at the high end of the price spectrum was always going to be a hard slog and tight margin for the retailer. Too complex an idea to sell when the punters were simply wanting a good buy price and a camera that would satisfy their simple photographic requirements. It is easier to sell a systems camera with a larger body to those who have ambitions of owning the best gear.

The main problem with the GM is that most buyers in a class of people see that the physical size is a disadvantage and it gets dismissed as a toy. Which is a big problem for M4/3 as it means that they cannot leverage the full benefit of the potential for M4/3 to provide a truly compact system. Smaller lenses are only part of the deal. I wonder what the advantage of a smaller lens might be when the popularity of cameras seems to be associated with the size of the camera body.

If the M4/3 bodies have to be as large and almost undistinguishable from larger sensor bodies then what is the point? A certain class of lenses might be physically smaller made for M4/3 but quite often if the lens has to be of very high quality the size grows exponentially to be almost as large as the equivalent in larger sensor imaging capacity.

Panasonic made he GM series physically smaller or as small as cameras that used even smaller sensors - a considerable achievement. Besides these cameras are pocket rockets and I confess to not recognising this initially myself.

That the GM series was first priced at a higher RRP than many other cameras that Panasonic have been released recently was also not a very good start. A GM5 first sold at the expected RRP of the GF9 would have walked out the door. As it was it was priced higher than the initial RRP of the GX85. (Which I still believe is the GM7 by another name).

Hence the cheaper made GF9 which might get some traction from those not in the know - but they are more likely not "systems camera" buyers and are looking for an all in one fixed lens zoom camera. Therefore are we stuck with a great idea, great camera, but one that simply cannot be marketed?

The GF9 is no substitute for those that might accept a GM5 and if I do ever need to replace my GM series then the current price/performance of the GX85 makes it a whole lot more attractive than the GF9.

--
Tom Caldwell
 
Marty

I agree with every wise word except that the GX85 was the GM7. Panasonic may have seen the GM name as becoming hard to market. Therefore they changed the naming strategy at the last minute. The GX85 arrived right on cue on the anticipated release date of the GM7 - it provided the required "full house" features that had been clamoured by many "so-called" GM enthusiasts for months beforehand. The brief was "make a GM camera as small as posisble with all the features included". Despite altering the top plate (flush), and reducting the grip size all that could be managed (with a struggle) was a body much the same size as the GX7. A camera supposedly superseded by the GX8.

Consternation! Oh lets call it the "GX85" and it is a sort of GX8 we should have made in the first place anyway ....

So we now have a Panasonic model numbering scheme that baffles belief. So the obvious and appropriately named GF9 will also bear the GX850 nomiker? So room for the GX8500? If so is is going to be arguably more down-market plastic still? Heavens ... the GM series were high quality cameras made small, not lightweights made to a price - this was half their problem as you have so eloquently described.

But I cannot see the GX850 or whatever name it will end up with being a big seller in the GM series intended market. It might be cheaper made but those less involved will still either want a camera with fixed built in zoom, write off the GX850 as a toy just as much as the GM series was, or prefer a larger body that they can wrap their hands around and retain their status as having a proper camera.

I for one have no intention of replacing my (many) GM bodies with a GX850 - it simply is not singing my tune. No advantage to Panasonic whatsoever.
 
Keep in mind that the GX85 is a brick compared to the GM series. Just ordered a GM5 for this reason...
Yes I have a GX7 as "backup" when I need a larger body and its extra features. One day I might have (one only) GX85 "brick". But I saw the GM series as a medium for having more than one similar camera body each with a lens to avoid lens changing in the field. All the more reason why I was initially not able to were the price x the number of camera bodies I wished to own.
I think that the GF9 is probably built to the price point where Panasonic can make a good profit on such a camera.

Pity that most users want something like a GM1 or GM5 at this price point not a camera such as the simplified larger bodied GF9 made for less involved users.

Therefore I predict that the GF9 will be no more success world wide than the previous GF models and probably relegated to the same market as the GF8 - the domestic Japanese market.
 
I think Pany is changing (simplifying) the designation for their "range finder" models.

GX - x (GX8 - high end)
GX - xx (GX85 - mid)
GX - xxx (GX850 - low end) such as the one featured here.

The GX - xxx can replace both the GM and GF series. No need to have two small rangefinder model when this can replace both. Some are already "screaming" VF, maybe the next model will get one. I think that this GX850 is a good start for this new naming convention.

I hope they do the same with the G Series DLSR type

G x - high end
G xx - mid
G xxx - low end (if applicable)

They can leave the GH designation alone as their top of the line system.

I think this naming convention will simplify Panasonic camera models. My 2 cents :)
 
As one GM lover to another, I understand your frustration.

I honestly feel Panasonic made a good marketing decision. If they had made a GM7 it would have been a repeat of their GM5 experience. Everyone would gush over it, but no one would buy it until some deep discounting happened.
Yep, I get that. In fact usually when an entry level camera comes out that I'm not interested in I hope it will be successful because the more users of any kind in m43 the better for everyone.

In this case I also wonder if there could be another factor in play. Even if Panasonic has or had a game plan for a GM follow on it could have been delayed or triaged away after the earthquake induced sensor production shortage. Consider the Nikon DL series which is probably targeting a similar market to the GM. That's been on hold for almost a whole year now! So if there is anything constraining supply manufacturers have to decide where to allocate their resources in the short term and a GM follow on not likely to be the top choice for the reasons you describe.
 

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