135 mm battle, Leica APO-Telyt M vs Canon EF 135 vs Samyang 135

As indicated two days ago this is now the battle of the 135 mm lenses.

Contenders:

• Leica APO-Telyt M 135 f/3.4 (450 g)
• Canon EF 135 f/2.0 L (750 g)
• Samyang (aka Rokinon) 135 f/2.0 E-mount (820 g)

With the introduction of the Sony A7RM2 I start to wonder whether sharpness ever was a valid comparison for lenses. Looks like all lenses I currently own in FE mount are more than sharp enough - even enlarged to extreme sizes - this seem to apply for the 135 mm lenses as well - all of these lenses are really nice.

I own all there above lenses and my goal is to have a (moderate) fast tele lens for travel purposes - the EF 135 including the adapter weighs almost as much as the Samyang 135 and thus both are much too bulky and heavy. Unfortunately we see no native lightweight and small 1XX native FE mount lens.

Thus I decided to have a shootout on image quality including rendering and character of the lenses.

(image workflow: RAW 14-bit lossles, tripod and remote release, EFCS, IBIS turned off, manual focussing on the same point in the image, sharpening, color fringing remove in LR and auto setting for brightness - finally export and export sharpening in LR print module - print to file in 120 dpi)

(click on original to see 100 % - the order of images is not the same in the samples - watch out for the image description below each image)


focus on the horizontal rib of the mirror (not on the screw)


detail of the above selection


focus on the mercedes star left low corner


focus on the face of the sculpture


detail of above selection


focus on the golden part of the sculpture


detail of above selection

My verdict:

• the Samyang 135 is slightly the sharpest of the three - but in real world enlargements up to DIN A 1 (24x36 inches) I'd not expect a huge visible difference
• The bokeh of the three contenders differs a bit - of course the Leica is a bit "handicapped" by the slower speed but it holds up quite well
• I've read a lot of praising of the Samynang 135 f/2.0 but IMHO it is not so attractive in terms of over all image character - of course a very personal decision
• The Leica has half the weight of the other two and is by far the smallest lens of the three
• I like the fact that the Leica has pretty round bokeh balls and a nice rendering

The Samyang will go on eBay in Spring - it is simply too big and too heavy - mechanics are sub prime and the camera feels extremely unbalanced with this lens attached - furthermore it does not justify to stay in my photo drawer because the Leica is more than good enough IMHO - in fact it is pretty amazing for being such a small little gem. It has roughly the size of the Loxia 85 and offers a similar image quality and 135 vs. 85 mm - for travel purpose a much more appreciated focal length for me - especially at this weight.

The EF 135 will be handed to my spouse - so I have still access to it ;-)

The Leica can be found in mint condition on eBay occasionally for some 1400-1700 EUR - a real bargain and currently second to none in this class - there is simply no other light 135 mm lens available that's so good.

Hope you like this comparison.

(I do hope that Sony brings out a native FE 135 f/1.8 GM - I would buy that in a heartbeat additionally to my Leica 135 M)

--
__________________________________
A7R II - one camera to rule them all
ISO 9000 definition of quality: 'Degree to which a set of inherent characteristic fulfills requirements'
I am the classic “Windows by Day, Mac by Night user'
“The horizon of many people is a circle with zero radius which they call their point of view.” Albert Einstein
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." Douglas Adams

I like the Canon's rendering the best.

How was the longitudinal chromatic aberration?

W

Hello Joger. Thanks for the comparison! Well executed, organized and presented. A very informative read.

I don't yet own any Leica glass but the Leica APO-Telyt M 135 f/3.4 is one lens that I have often considered. After seeing your fine comparison here, I would still have to recommend the Samyang and am glad to see in your examples IMO, the very low cost Samyang 135 certainly holds its own against the top of the line Leica APO-Telyt M 135 f/3.4.

If portability, size and weight is a priority then yes the Leica APO-Telyt M 135 f/3.4 takes the lead. However for that kind of money, I am just as happy to use the $300 Contax G 90 and slip the A7rII into APS-C mode.

Again, thanks for your work. Not sure I would have ever had the opporutnity to compare these three great 135s on my own.

wkingsie said:

I like the Canon's rendering the best.

Click to expand...

I tend to agree - followed very close by the Leica and last Samyang - the Leica has very nice round bokeh balls and a nice transition from foreground to background

wkingsie said:

How was the longitudinal chromatic aberration?

Click to expand...

Best (lowest) is Samyang followed very close by the Leica and last Canon with notable the worst chromatic aberration.

LBJ2 said:

Hello Joger. Thanks for the comparison! Well executed, organized and presented. A very informative read.

Click to expand...

I benefited so much from reading otters postings that I like to give something back to the community while I can.

Member said:

I don't yet own any Leica glass but the Leica APO-Telyt M 135 f/3.4 is one lens that I have often considered. After seeing your fine comparison here, I would still have to recommend the Samyang and am glad to see in your examples IMO, the very low cost Samyang 135 certainly holds its own against the top of the line Leica APO-Telyt M 135 f/3.4.

Click to expand...

Hm - not sure I would use the Samyang - many facts speak against it:

• extremely bulky
• extremely heavy
• poor mechanical friction (much too tight for my taste)
• very poor sun shade (it fell down when I wanted to attach it and cracked immediately - I am waiting for a replacement since three months)
• very long providing and attention drawing when doing street photography
• f/2.0 not rollt needed when travelling

The Samyang is a tiny bit better in terms of sharpness but the bokeh is not really better - just different and as said before it is not a travel lens - but for a portrait lens I really prefer AF - especially Eye AF - so as soon as Sony issues a successor of the A-mount 135 f/1.8 in FE mount I am in - especially in case they will do in in a GM version

Member said:

If portability, size and weight is a priority then yes the Leica APO-Telyt M 135 f/3.4 takes the lead. However for that kind of money, I am just as happy to use the $300 Contax G 90 and slip the A7rII into APS-C mode.

Click to expand...

You can sell the Leica in 15 years for more money then I payed now used in mint condition ;-)

Member said:

Again, thanks for your work. Not sure I would have ever had the opporutnity to compare these three great 135s on my own.

Click to expand...

that's the purpose - hope it helps some people in their decision process - that said I start to realize that sharpness is no measure any more - even certain legacy glass just shines on the A7RM2 - we might see 70 or even > 100 Mpix in a few years from now - imagine the possibilities!!

--
__________________________________
A7R II - one camera to rule them all
ISO 9000 definition of quality: 'Degree to which a set of inherent characteristic fulfills requirements'
I am the classic “Windows by Day, Mac by Night user'
“The horizon of many people is a circle with zero radius which they call their point of view.” Albert Einstein
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." Douglas Adams

The Samyang and the Canon are not quite the same focal length it appears. The Samyang is a tiny bit wider. I think the Canon starts losing roundness ever so slightly quicker than the Samyang also seen in this clipping:

sean lancaster said:

The Samyang and the Canon are not quite the same focal length it appears. The Samyang is a tiny bit wider. I think the Canon starts losing roundness ever so slightly quicker than the Samyang also seen in this clipping:

Click to expand...

Sean, funny you should reply. I was just looking for your post ( hard to forget that image). To me, one of the most pleasing bokeh images out there

Thanks for this. Which adapter are you using for the Canon 135? Rob

Robert Holloway said:

Thanks for this. Which adapter are you using for the Canon 135? Rob

Click to expand...

Voigtlaender close focus adapter - that brings some further 200 mm closer focussing.



the only real caveat I see on the Lica is the quite long minimum focus distance of some 1.5 m - with eh VC adapter I get to some 1.15 m



BTW - the size difference is huge IMHO - just did a (very) quick and dirty shot (sorry for the poor quality)




size comparison Samyang 135 vs. Leica 135 - sun shade enabled (built in on the Leica - very neat!!)



--
__________________________________
A7R II - one camera to rule them all
ISO 9000 definition of quality: 'Degree to which a set of inherent characteristic fulfills requirements'
I am the classic “Windows by Day, Mac by Night user'
“The horizon of many people is a circle with zero radius which they call their point of view.” Albert Einstein
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." Douglas Adams

joger said:

LBJ2 said:

Hello Joger. Thanks for the comparison! Well executed, organized and presented. A very informative read.

Click to expand...

I benefited so much from reading otters postings that I like to give something back to the community while I can.

joger said:

I don't yet own any Leica glass but the Leica APO-Telyt M 135 f/3.4 is one lens that I have often considered. After seeing your fine comparison here, I would still have to recommend the Samyang and am glad to see in your examples IMO, the very low cost Samyang 135 certainly holds its own against the top of the line Leica APO-Telyt M 135 f/3.4.

Click to expand...

Hm - not sure I would use the Samyang - many facts speak against it:

• extremely bulky
• extremely heavy
• poor mechanical friction (much too tight for my taste)
• very poor sun shade (it fell down when I wanted to attach it and cracked immediately - I am waiting for a replacement since three months)
• very long providing and attention drawing when doing street photography
• f/2.0 not rollt needed when travelling

The Samyang is a tiny bit better in terms of sharpness but the bokeh is not really better - just different and as said before it is not a travel lens - but for a portrait lens I really prefer AF - especially Eye AF - so as soon as Sony issues a successor of the A-mount 135 f/1.8 in FE mount I am in - especially in case they will do in in a GM version

joger said:

If portability, size and weight is a priority then yes the Leica APO-Telyt M 135 f/3.4 takes the lead. However for that kind of money, I am just as happy to use the $300 Contax G 90 and slip the A7rII into APS-C mode.

Click to expand...

You can sell the Leica in 15 years for more money then I payed now used in mint condition ;-)

joger said:

Again, thanks for your work. Not sure I would have ever had the opporutnity to compare these three great 135s on my own.

Click to expand...

that's the purpose - hope it helps some people in their decision process - that said I start to realize that sharpness is no measure any more - even certain legacy glass just shines on the A7RM2 - we might see 70 or even > 100 Mpix in a few years from now - imagine the possibilities!!

--
__________________________________
A7R II - one camera to rule them all
ISO 9000 definition of quality: 'Degree to which a set of inherent characteristic fulfills requirements'
I am the classic “Windows by Day, Mac by Night user'
“The horizon of many people is a circle with zero radius which they call their point of view.” Albert Einstein
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." Douglas Adams

Click to expand...

Admirable responses. Some good points. I just dont share the poor user experince you describe with the Samyang 135.

When the Samyang Emount first came out we all thought it was a gigantic lens for the Emount. Now we have the GM lenses and the FE 35/50 F1.4 and if Sony gives us a FE 135 F1.8, it will be a large, heavy lens too. For me, once I saw what some of these large, fast primes can do, I got over the size and weight prety fast. If I need to go small and light there are plenty of excellent and cost effective native and adapted solutions both AF and MF. No worries for me there.

Thank you again for a very informative post. I do find your work very helpful. In this one case however, I'll contiunue to sing the praise of the Samyang 135. If however Sony bestows a nice FE 135 F1.8/2 on us like you, I'll be first in line to buy that lens too ;-)

joger said:

Robert Holloway said:

Thanks for this. Which adapter are you using for the Canon 135? Rob

Click to expand...

Voigtlaender close focus adapter - that brings some further 200 mm closer focussing.

the only real caveat I see on the Lica is the quite long minimum focus distance of some 1.5 m - with eh VC adapter I get to some 1.15 m

BTW - the size difference is huge IMHO - just did a (very) quick and dirty shot (sorry for the poor quality)


size comparison Samyang 135 vs. Leica 135 - sun shade enabled (built in on the Leica - very neat!!)

--
__________________________________
A7R II - one camera to rule them all
ISO 9000 definition of quality: 'Degree to which a set of inherent characteristic fulfills requirements'
I am the classic “Windows by Day, Mac by Night user'
“The horizon of many people is a circle with zero radius which they call their point of view.” Albert Einstein
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." Douglas Adams

Click to expand...

Now that you put it that way. LoL. Yes, the Leica does look enticingly small and compact !

LBJ2 said:

When the Samyang Emount first came out we all thought it was a gigantic lens for the Emount. Now we have the GM lenses and the FE 35/50 F1.4 and if Sony gives us a FE 135 F1.8, it will be a large, heavy lens too. For me, once I saw what some of these large, fast primes can do, I got over the size and weight pretty fast. If I need to go small and light there are plenty of excellent and cost effective native and adapted solutions both AF and MF. No worries for me there.

Thank you again for a very informative post. I do find your work very helpful. In this one case however, I'll continue to sing the praise of the Samyang 135. If however Sony bestows a nice FE 135 F1.8/2 on us like you, I'll be first in line to buy that lens too ;-)

Click to expand...

That's largely my thinking as well. I really like the Samyang 135/2, but I'd love AF with eye AF as well from a native 135/2 or 135/1.8. It probably would still only be the size of the Samyang, but that's just a guess.

And, I also didn't want large lenses when I shifted to the A7 series. I was leaving the Canon 6D and mostly using the Sigma 35/1.4, so it was a big combo and I didn't want that. I bought the FE 55 and it's lightweight and relatively small on my A7 (at the time). When I want small, I can do that on my A7RII now with various lenses (e.g., like the Contax G 90/2.8 you mentioned). But when I want high quality and faster lenses, I can do that as well (e.g., my Batis 85/1.8 is larger than the Contax, but it gives me more than a stop of light, too and has similar quality, but also has eye AF). Sometimes I need a lens to walk around with and be nimble and sometimes I need a certain look I'll only get from the big lenses (and I have a Blackrapid shoulder strap for the larger combos and wrist strap for smaller ones). I can do both and that's how I now approach things.

Interesting. Thanks for this.

I did a similar test of three 135s a few days ago:


It's interesting that there was no lens in common in our selections of lenses to test. I do have the Leica lens you used, but not the other two.

Jim

Another Leica lens which is also outstanding but also a little forgotten is the older Tele-Elmar M 135/4.0. Almost as good as the Apo-Telyt but far cheaper. It came in three consecutive versions which (apart from the coatings) were optically identical. The two older of those are cheaper than yhe last and they are thus the better value.

LBJ2 said:

sean lancaster said:

The Samyang and the Canon are not quite the same focal length it appears. The Samyang is a tiny bit wider. I think the Canon starts losing roundness ever so slightly quicker than the Samyang also seen in this clipping:

Click to expand...

Sean, funny you should reply. I was just looking for your post ( hard to forget that image). To me, one of the most pleasing bokeh images out there

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/58441554

Click to expand...

Guess I missed this post from Sean. I have never seen a bokeh that has such perfect round circles. Are they real bokeh without post processing?

--
"Keep calm and take photos"
Photography enthusiast, from 12mm to 500mm

Thanks for the test and comparison joger.

To my eyes -

1) The Samyang is noticeably sharper by quite a margin than the other 2.

2) The Canon seems to have slightly bigger bokeh balls than the Samyang at same aperture.

3) Both Canon and Samyang are meant to shoot wide open, as once stopped down to F3.4 you can see the blades which makes it ugly.

All in all I see very little appeal on the Leica, I also question the need of 135mm for traveling.

Personally I want a 135mm for max bokeh and subject compression in portrait, to me I wouldn't bother carrying one for travel.

Just my 2c.

vett93 said:

LBJ2 said:

sean lancaster said:

The Samyang and the Canon are not quite the same focal length it appears. The Samyang is a tiny bit wider. I think the Canon starts losing roundness ever so slightly quicker than the Samyang also seen in this clipping:

Click to expand...

Sean, funny you should reply. I was just looking for your post ( hard to forget that image). To me, one of the most pleasing bokeh images out there

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/58441554

Click to expand...

Guess I missed this post from Sean. I have never seen a bokeh that has such perfect round circles. Are they real bokeh without post processing?

Click to expand...

This has no post processing. It is also not cropped at all. 6000 x 4000 on my old A7. Here's the Flickr page for the image:

The Leica is way over-priced. I think I am happy with my Zeiss 135/2.8 C/Y mount which is <$200 and only weight 585 grams. Pair it with a Techart Pro, I can get useable AF.

sean lancaster said:

vett93 said:

LBJ2 said:

sean lancaster said:

The Samyang and the Canon are not quite the same focal length it appears. The Samyang is a tiny bit wider. I think the Canon starts losing roundness ever so slightly quicker than the Samyang also seen in this clipping:

Click to expand...

Sean, funny you should reply. I was just looking for your post ( hard to forget that image). To me, one of the most pleasing bokeh images out there

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/58441554

Click to expand...

Guess I missed this post from Sean. I have never seen a bokeh that has such perfect round circles. Are they real bokeh without post processing?

Click to expand...

This has no post processing. It is also not cropped at all. 6000 x 4000 on my old A7. Here's the Flickr page for the image:

https://flic.kr/p/BMKqsR

Click to expand...

That is very impressive. Great job, Sean!

--
"Keep calm and take photos"
Photography enthusiast, from 12mm to 500mm

vett93 said:

sean lancaster said:

vett93 said:

LBJ2 said:

sean lancaster said:

The Samyang and the Canon are not quite the same focal length it appears. The Samyang is a tiny bit wider. I think the Canon starts losing roundness ever so slightly quicker than the Samyang also seen in this clipping:

Click to expand...

Sean, funny you should reply. I was just looking for your post ( hard to forget that image). To me, one of the most pleasing bokeh images out there

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/58441554

Click to expand...

Guess I missed this post from Sean. I have never seen a bokeh that has such perfect round circles. Are they real bokeh without post processing?

Click to expand...

This has no post processing. It is also not cropped at all. 6000 x 4000 on my old A7. Here's the Flickr page for the image:

https://flic.kr/p/BMKqsR

Click to expand...

That is very impressive. Great job, Sean!

--
"Keep calm and take photos"
Photography enthusiast, from 12mm to 500mm

Click to expand...

Totally agree. This is really very nice Sean!

--
Warm Regards,
Roger