Making large archival prints from 4x5 bw negatives

i am planning an exhibition of bw photographs at the Oregon historical society. The material will be selected from 4x5 bw negatives I shot for the historic American engineering record now in the collections of the library of congress. The prints are to be fairly large scale, perhaps 28x35 or so, archivally matted and framed. I had envisioned doing actual silver gelatin prints on DW fiber-base paper, processed to archival standards for the museum to keep in their collections.

however, I sold my darkroom several years ago, and I was planning to have my daughter do the printing (she has a degree in photography from USC, loves darkroom work, and wants to do this). I thought she might be able to use a commercial rental darkroom or maybe a facility at a community college (she lives in Phoenix), but apparently things like that don't exist anymore and I would have to buy her an entire 4x5 darkroom setup with processing facility for very large prints, which is extraordinarily expensive.

Now I am havinG to rethink the entire exhibit project. I guess we can scan the negs and print on a plotter, but I have no experience with trying to make fine art quality prints on a plotter or by any digital printing technology.

i would truly appreciate any thoughts, suggestions or advice you might have regarding the best way to make high quality, hopefully archival, large scale BW prints from 4x5 negatives. Thanks.

You will get many great insights in this forum.

I would contact Brooks Jensen of Lens Work Quarterly.

http://www.lenswork.com/index2.html

He is in your neck of the works and would likely know what's available wet vs digital printing. As much as we all love traditional printing, this would be a good time for you to archive the negatives through scanning and learn inkjet printing. I have no doubt that if Ansel Adams, Wynn Bullock, W Eugene Smith were alive today, there would be doing digital printmaking.

I would also talk with Jon Cone at Inkjetmall, who would likely know digital printers in your area.

http://www.inkjetmall.com/wordpress/


I have scanned many 4x5 and 5x7 B&W negatives, as well as vintage glass plates, and you can get outstanding results from modest dpi, quality flat bed scanners like the old graphics arts scanners, Linocolor, Microtek, UMax Powerlook, etc. Most were made either by UMax or Microtek.

If you haven't already gotten one, there may be grants available.

Good luck.

Gesture - thanks for your response. Part of this is my daughters desire to make silver gelatin prints directly from the original negatives just because she enjoys the physical act of working in a darkroom, and the other part is my desire to provide true archival prints for the OHS collections. I have not yet researched the archival stablility of digital prints or the kinds of paper available for digital printing so I am bit behind that curve. My daughter is quite expert in digital file manipulation but doesn't have much interest in printing on a plotter - she wants to do the darkroom thing with negs, chemicals, trays, etc. but again, I appreciate your thoughts, and it may turn out that digital prints will be what we wind up doing.

james b norman said:

i am planning an exhibition of bw photographs at the Oregon historical society. The material will be selected from 4x5 bw negatives I shot for the historic American engineering record now in the collections of the library of congress. The prints are to be fairly large scale, perhaps 28x35 or so, archivally matted and framed. I had envisioned doing actual silver gelatin prints on DW fiber-base paper, processed to archival standards for the museum to keep in their collections.

however, I sold my darkroom several years ago, and I was planning to have my daughter do the printing (she has a degree in photography from USC, loves darkroom work, and wants to do this). I thought she might be able to use a commercial rental darkroom or maybe a facility at a community college (she lives in Phoenix), but apparently things like that don't exist anymore and I would have to buy her an entire 4x5 darkroom setup with processing facility for very large prints, which is extraordinarily expensive.

Now I am havinG to rethink the entire exhibit project. I guess we can scan the negs and print on a plotter, but I have no experience with trying to make fine art quality prints on a plotter or by any digital printing technology.

i would truly appreciate any thoughts, suggestions or advice you might have regarding the best way to make high quality, hopefully archival, large scale BW prints from 4x5 negatives. Thanks.

--
jnorman
sunridge studios
salem, oregon
Panasonic GH4, Vario 7-14mm f/4
Cambo 45NX, nikkor SW 90/8, 135/5.6, 210/5.6
Graflex Crown Graphic 4x5 (1948 model)

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James,

If you had expected to do silver gelatin prints, then probably nothing else will do. The philosophic difference between analog prints and digital prints is one of those religious divisions in our field that no amount of logical discussion will cure.

I spent a long career in the analog photography world and I'm pretty familiar with the dedication and zeal of good darkroom artists, having earned my living that way since the 50s.

There ARE darkroom workers around who still do what you ask.

That said, I want to assure you that gorgeous prints on today's Epson, Canon and other ink jet printers can be made that are works of art in their own right. My own opinion is that digital reproduction far exceeds anything the industry used to accomplish in the darkroom.

Since you have no experience with scanning or digital output, you will have to rely on quality services to do this. There are an abundance of such in the West.

How many negatives do you need to scan? I have been a drum scanner operator since the mid 80s. If the number is not great, I would be glad to assist you, if you would like. I am no longer making my living doing this and I don't charge for my scans. I only do it now to enjoy myself.

It sounds like you have no experience with the digital work flow needed to achieve fine art quality results. If you go with scanning, vs darkroom printing, I strongly recommend drum scanning. Many large format photographers use (relatively) inexpensive flat bed scanners to reproduce their 4x5 negs. That is not the way to go for your project. The quality difference is significant. I mean no disrespect to them, that's just a fact of life.

Drum scanners were not designed to scan silver negative material. They were designed for "chromes." Drum scanners are essentially condenser enlargers, and they can exaggerate silver grain if the operator is not experienced doing B&W negs. None-the-less, they are laboratory instruments and can be calibrated for any transmissive or reflective material. Make sure the place you get your scans is competent to do B&W scans.

Your negs may have scratches and dirt far beyond your awareness. Preparing for drum scanning reveals many defects that a darkroom operator would never notice and which would not show if printed on an enlarger. Even on a condenser enlarger.

Most of the time gentle cleaning is all that's necessary. If scratches are not in the emulsion, they're relatively easy to handle. Even damage to the emulsion can be dealt with in post processing. Customers often have no idea how much free image restoration scanner operators do in delivering quality scans.

In general, scans at the size you will need (about 2000 ppi) range in cost from $75 to $200. Cleaning, spotting, retouching (always needed) may be included, or may be an additional charge, depending on the lab. Prints on archival substrate will be in the range of $100.

Once you have your scans, I recommend using a printing service that you have physical access to. While you could work long distance with a printer who mails you proofs, before committing to the final prints, being there and approving proofs and seeing and examining the final product coming off the machine is a much better way to control the process.

I'm sure others will chime in here with lots of advice about how to proceed and lots of opinions about technical and artistic decisions.

If I can help, let me know, and we can communicate by private messaging or other means.

Rich

Rich - thanks so much for your kind and thorough response. I have produced a number of book projects where we have utilized drum scanning for the digital images, though I have always worked with graphics professionals who were experienced in the intricacies of those processes. I will discuss this with my daughter and we will decide how to best proceed for the printing. Perhaps we will do a few wet process prints and some digital prints. I really appreciate your offer to provide some drum scans for our project and I may very well take you up on it! I also do a number of projects gratis just because I love what I do, and I love involving other professionals who are the same way.

Here's a rental darkroom in Portland:

http://newspacephoto.org/facilities/darkroom/

they only have facilities for up to 20x24 wet prints, but it's better than nothing. Your daughter could always visit you and print.

I some people at the Photographic Center of the Northwest here in Seattle. The have a couple of 4x5 enlargers you can rent by the hour http://pcnw.org/

You would be surprised what you can find on Craigslist these days. I bought a whole darkroom setup for $75. I've seen 4x5 enlargers going for peanuts...

Another good resource. I still recommend speaking with Brooks Jensen.

Rich has a lot of good information and a generous offer. I think a lot depends on the number of images that will be in the exhibition, but also how you want to handle the rest of your negatives. If you have hundreds or thousands of important negatives to archive you will want an efficient, cost-effective and high-quality way of scanning. Drum or Hasselblad scans in the hands of an experienced operator without a doubt produce excellent scans, but if you need a lot of scans could be very expensive. Prosumer flatbed scanners such as the Epsons may provide decent scans on 4x5 film (not for 35mm!) but there are issues with consistency, focus (they are fixed focus with a very narrow depth of field) and dynamic range. The other way is to "scan" with a DSLR and macro lens, preferably at least 36 mp like a Nikon D800 or D810 or similar Canons. This is fast and provides quality that rivals drum scans, at least up to 24 - 28" on the narrow side of a print. For those images that need to be printed larger you can stitch 2 or more images together.

All the best with the project. Please keep us informed about your exhibition and how you are proceeding.

james b norman said:

Rich - thanks so much for your kind and thorough response. I have produced a number of book projects where we have utilized drum scanning for the digital images, though I have always worked with graphics professionals who were experienced in the intricacies of those processes. I will discuss this with my daughter and we will decide how to best proceed for the printing. Perhaps we will do a few wet process prints and some digital prints. I really appreciate your offer to provide some drum scans for our project and I may very well take you up on it! I also do a number of projects gratis just because I love what I do, and I love involving other professionals who are the same way.

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Thanks so much to everyone! I had no idea I would find such a great bunch of folks here in this forum - what a wonderful resource you guys are! I will try to keep you up to date as this effort progresses.

Thanks mike - I was not aware of that resource. Looks perfect for us.