My subjects are normally musicians, who normally don't move that much - or I can pan them. Sometimes, instead of fighting the dark, you can get cool shots by going with the flow. If you can't lick 'em, join 'em.
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Victor Engel
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Yet another lens discussion: mid-range low-light zoom on 6D?
- Thread starter Jeff Peterman
- Start date
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Victor Engel
Jeff Peterman
Forum Pro
I take a lot of shots, and I try to plan the shutter release based on when the subject is likely to pause - setting the camera to a multishot burst can help. I have hand-held the 70-200 down to as low as 1/30 (at f2.8 and ISO 6400 or even 12800), even having to under expose a little to get that shutter speed. Is every shot sharp and usable? No, But enough shots can be to be worth the effort.
As I said at the start, the main reason I bought a 6D (when I already had a 7D) was for the higher ISO, with the 6D giving me a solid stop more than the crop body (maybe more than that).
As I said at the start, the main reason I bought a 6D (when I already had a 7D) was for the higher ISO, with the 6D giving me a solid stop more than the crop body (maybe more than that).
1.8 will give you just over a stop compared to 2.8 IF you can afford the focal range and DOF. My preference in these situations is used manual with auto-iso so the shutter speed does not drop too much. 100 or faster to avoid motion blur.
Is not using flash a preference or a constraint?
If you are in an indoor venue and can do a bit of setup, a couple flashes pointed up to the ceiling at fraction power may provide enough light to drop the ISO down a bit without being too distracting for guests. This of course would depend on the room etc.
Jeff Peterman
Forum Pro
Mostly preference, but I certainly don't have time for any decent flash set up. Most of the time, I turn up to the events, stay for about 30 minutes, and leave - remember, I am a volunteer taking photos so that the people have a record and some photos that they can use in a newsletter.
This morning is a good (annual) example: I will be visiting four homeless shelter to take photos of people serving Christmas lunch. These places generally frown on photographer, so I have to be unobtrusive (not possible with flash; and I have to be cautious not to include the faces of those being served) and quick because I must cover 4 shelters in 3 hours, and they are miles apart in different areas of the city.
If you need to be unobtrusive, flash is definitely out.
If at some event it does become an option, but you are time constrained, the suggestion I have is to consider a 'general fill light' via bouncing. Even if you get a stop or two, it may be enough.
My favorite story/post of this morning - the true spirit of Christmas.
Jeff Peterman
Forum Pro
It was fun, and I used only the 24-105 - there was enough light at all the shelters to manage with the slower lens. Now I'm going through the photos and will have them posted for the participants by the end of the day.
2ndact scene1
Senior Member
Jeff, my wife is a director of a non profit that organizes conferences, family events and an annual dinner. Despite not having much experience they have allowed me to take photographs of the events for their website and social media (unpaid of course). I have been using an SL1 with an EFS 24mm F2.8 STM and a 55-250mm EFS zoom. I do use a flash at evening events though my technique needs work.
So this discussion is very interesting. Have you considered using two camera bodies so you can use faster primes without changing lenses - say a 85mm and a 24mm or 35mm? Maybe stowing one at the reception desk while using the other, if too heavy to carry both.
I went with the 24mm at the most recent event because I was asked to get group shots. Not having IS on the 24m lens along with the limited high ISO capacity of a crop body was a hurdle though. I may try my 35mm f2.0 next time which does have IS but the field of view may be a bit too narrow ( 56 mm FF equivalent)
A 6d might be a very good option ( this is the full frame forum after all) - I happened to see one listed locally for $950 today by chance and was thinking about it. The 35mm f2.0 would pair well with it for wide shots. Plus I have a good argument for persuading my wife how essential it is for her non profit's events!
Your post also made me think about finding other non profits to work with as well - could be fun and rewarding.
Thanks
Kevin
JeffPeterman wrote:
So this discussion is very interesting. Have you considered using two camera bodies so you can use faster primes without changing lenses - say a 85mm and a 24mm or 35mm? Maybe stowing one at the reception desk while using the other, if too heavy to carry both.
I went with the 24mm at the most recent event because I was asked to get group shots. Not having IS on the 24m lens along with the limited high ISO capacity of a crop body was a hurdle though. I may try my 35mm f2.0 next time which does have IS but the field of view may be a bit too narrow ( 56 mm FF equivalent)
A 6d might be a very good option ( this is the full frame forum after all) - I happened to see one listed locally for $950 today by chance and was thinking about it. The 35mm f2.0 would pair well with it for wide shots. Plus I have a good argument for persuading my wife how essential it is for her non profit's events!
Your post also made me think about finding other non profits to work with as well - could be fun and rewarding.
Thanks
Kevin
JeffPeterman wrote:
GriffinClubMerv
Well-known member
My question to you Kevin - you say that you use flash, and that your technique needs work. What are you using for a flash, the built-in pop-up? If so, investing in a speedlight (either Canon or a more affordable off-brand like Yongnou) would make a big difference in your indoor quality.
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2ndact scene1
Senior Member
I tried the pop up flash at one event and it clearly was not the way to go. So I bought a 320 EX Speedlite. I dial down flash exposure comp to mix ambient light and flash and bounce off the ceiling. I need to develop my technique further to make the exposure more predictable/ manageable and also ways to soften the flash.
- One issue I have had is that it is hard to practice without access to a large room with high ceilings similar to a ballroom or conference center but I am working on that. Plus I am watching some videos.
GriffinClubMerv
Well-known member
The 320 is a small room speedlight, not well suited to a large room/venue. When money allows, I'd recommend a (relatively inexpensive) Yongnuo YN600EX-RT ($125-ish) and a couple different styles of diffusers. All the power you need for a big banquet-style room - a fraction of the price of a Canon unit.
2ndact scene1
Senior Member
Thanks. I will check it out.
In a room with high ceilings, flash power is severely compromised and you have a few choices:
1. Bump up ISO, open up the lens and try that
2. Or do direct flash
3. Direct with a modifier - Rogue flash bender, or Fstoppers flash disc are quite useful (I have both). Some recommend magmod accessories.
Just to note, for 2 or 3, you can do off-camera by holding flash to the side using a cord or radio.
2ndact scene1
Senior Member
I did #1 (but switching to my 7d will help boosting ISO based on my experience even though both have 18MP sensors).
I was trying to avoid #2 to avoid blinding people and the blink reaction.
#3 is probably where I need to go. I just looked at the Rogue website. Hard to see on my phone. Will check out them out later when on my home monitor.
As to high ceilings, I am not talking about Carnegie Hall here ( as they say you only get there with practice, practice, practice!). Banquet rooms and lecture halls are I guess 20 foot ceilings (usually white or cream color so somewhat reflective). One event in our Natural History museum (Raleigh NC) did present a challenge and I need a better solution in case we have another reception there.
Appreciate the input.
I was trying to avoid #2 to avoid blinding people and the blink reaction.
#3 is probably where I need to go. I just looked at the Rogue website. Hard to see on my phone. Will check out them out later when on my home monitor.
As to high ceilings, I am not talking about Carnegie Hall here ( as they say you only get there with practice, practice, practice!). Banquet rooms and lecture halls are I guess 20 foot ceilings (usually white or cream color so somewhat reflective). One event in our Natural History museum (Raleigh NC) did present a challenge and I need a better solution in case we have another reception there.
Appreciate the input.
For the museum- maybe you can go there one day without the crowds and do some experiments, especially if you can find someone to model a bit.
On flash - any simple reflector is better than none. Rogue flash ended is good but do check out the flash disc also - it folds into a small package which you can always just keep in your camera bag.
2ndact scene1
Senior Member
Good idea but will need to double check. In most museums, flash is not permitted. I was able to do it in this case because we were at a reception held in only one area (not that I asked first but the staff member who was there did not object). I did avoid using flash when I took a picture of an item on display. I will try to find other public spaces at times when no one is around.
Thanks
Thanks
Jeff Peterman
Forum Pro
A few things here. First, as others have said, bouncing off of anything but a low ceiling doesn't work well - especially with a low-powered flash head. If the ceiling is 14 foot above the camera, that means the distance to the ceiling (with the bounce angle is over 20 foot, then you have huge loss of light from the reflection inefficiency, followed by another 20 foot distance to the subject. I use a Rogue Flashbender in those situations, if I must use flash.
I have several bodies: the 6D, 7D (original), SL1, and 40D. I will sometimes shoot with two bodies, but then I'll have the 70-200 on the 6D and a 17-55 f2.8 on the crop body. I have 20mm, 50mm, 85mm, and 100mm primes that I could use, but in practice the only one I use for these events is the 85mm f1.8 on the 6D for portrait shots. (Note that I find that the SL1 is slightly cleaner than the 7D at high ISO - the opposite of your experience.)
If you can, I strongly recommend that you get the 6D for this type of shooting - but remember that you'll loose length (equivalent) on your lenses and may find that you need a longer lens.
I have several bodies: the 6D, 7D (original), SL1, and 40D. I will sometimes shoot with two bodies, but then I'll have the 70-200 on the 6D and a 17-55 f2.8 on the crop body. I have 20mm, 50mm, 85mm, and 100mm primes that I could use, but in practice the only one I use for these events is the 85mm f1.8 on the 6D for portrait shots. (Note that I find that the SL1 is slightly cleaner than the 7D at high ISO - the opposite of your experience.)
If you can, I strongly recommend that you get the 6D for this type of shooting - but remember that you'll loose length (equivalent) on your lenses and may find that you need a longer lens.
When the head is zoomed to 50mm, you have a guide number of 105 at ISO 100, according to Canon's web site.
That gives you a guide number of 200 at ISO 400.
Subtract a stop for bouncing off a white ceiling in a fairly small room with light walls. That takes your guide number down to 140.
Measure the distance from flash to ceiling, and ceiling to subject, and add them together.
For example, 8 feet plus 8 feet is 16 feet.
Divide your guide number by your distance, to get your aperture.
In this case, f8.
Or, perhaps the ceiling is 12 feet above the flash, and it's 14 feet down to the subject, (photographer is standing up, subject is sitting down) for a total flash travel of 26 feet.
Divide 140 by 24, for an aperture of f5.6.
That gives you a guide number of 200 at ISO 400.
Subtract a stop for bouncing off a white ceiling in a fairly small room with light walls. That takes your guide number down to 140.
Measure the distance from flash to ceiling, and ceiling to subject, and add them together.
For example, 8 feet plus 8 feet is 16 feet.
Divide your guide number by your distance, to get your aperture.
In this case, f8.
Or, perhaps the ceiling is 12 feet above the flash, and it's 14 feet down to the subject, (photographer is standing up, subject is sitting down) for a total flash travel of 26 feet.
Divide 140 by 24, for an aperture of f5.6.
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