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Ruminations on mirrorless battery life

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Bob A L said:
To your last question - Yes - but it was with film.
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Gotcha. Film does indeed put different constraints on a photographer. Digital has freed us from much of that. But that brings up a great point. "Back in the day..." photographers had to constantly be worried about swapping out film, and planning around this.

Swapping batteries every few hours is NOWHERE near the chore of swapping film, keeping track of exposure on the canisters and then lugging all that film around. Charging batteries is also nowhere near the hassle of carting the film around to the developer and then dealing with the selection and storing of negatives.

This has reminded me of a couple of good movies that deal with film. Check these out if you havent already seen them.


 
Bob A L said:
I just went through a year of trying to like a Sony mirrorless and batteries were one of my main complaints, so am guilty of being one of the complainers. But my problem was not necessarily the number of shots, but the time frame. My Sony batteries would also go down in a week or two without use. I can leave any of my dslr's unused for months and the batteries are still almost full.

But the big thing that surprises me on this post is the number of shots taken. Guess it's because I grew up with film, but 650+ shots for 4 kids photos in one day of portrait type settings? Good thing you weren't using film. Instead of changing batteries twice, you would needed to change film 30 to ??? times depending on what format and roll size you used. How many prints did they need of the kids?
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Film was cheap, and you run film out easily on the tasks.

8 roll of 120 film was nothing unheard.

20 rolls of 120 film was as well like nothing from one half-day shooting.

30 rolls of kinofilm (36 frames) was like typical to take with you for a job somewhere away.

Because you had few film types to use for different situations, so you swapped films.

This is the benefit of the digital, you can get lots of variations, lots of repeating moments etc to increase the good result. This without running any drive modes.

Yes, digital allows as well to go with just single shot per scene and subject, there are portraiture photographers who toke only a single exposure and it costed 150 000 dollars (today money it would be closer to 200 000-250 000). A s i n g l e exposure! And responsible for one of the world most known portraits.

If you have 4 hours, 4 kids, 4-5 different setups, it easily goes so that you take 30-40 frames per setup and per kid.

30-40 frames to be divided for few different poses, to get them relax and "enjoy" the moment in such challenging situation (children, low temperature, windy etc) is real challenge.
 
Tommi K1 said:
You raise good point with good context. DSLR fans like to throw around hyperboles of rhetorical problems of MILC batteries.

If you have a camera bag, then you can always slip a one extra battery there, that gives either 3 hour operation time (at least in normal temperature) or about 1000 frames (CIPA testing is meaningless) or around.

You have in bag anyways all other things from small clamps to flash, to filters, to rubber bands to cleaning tools etc and all extra lenses.

One extra battery is nothing as addition to there. You can have few extra batteries anyways.

The real problem that is with mirrorless extra batteries are these:

1) You need to spend extra money to buy them. Can be something from 20-100 price range.
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Yes, you have to pay for extra batteries. But calling this into question also calls into question ANY expenditure you have for photo gear. How much do you spend on lenses? Only one lens or do you buy extras? What about ND Filters? SD card? Bags? Eyecups? Cleaning kits? Photography is expensive, and singling out one cost for one item isnt realistic. Again it all boils down to using what works for you. Batteries arent an issue for most who use mirrorless.
Member said:
2) You need to manage the charging of them.
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Not that difficult, it is litterally plug it and forget it. Takes much longer to process images then to recharge batteries.
Member said:
3) You need to be aware of your shooting when the moment is good to swap the battery (vertical grips helps as you can swap just it as inbody one is as backup).
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This is just cant agree with. Maybe if you are shooting in a warzone as a photojournalist? Sure...then swapping batteries could MAYBE make you miss that Pulitzer. But for most photogs on assignment or doing shoots you just plan around the need to change batteries. Its really not....that....hard.
Member said:
The actual power consumption and amount ain't problem. Where ever I go, I have one MILC hanging on the belt, it is usually with charged battery that I charge once a week just in case as longest period. I might have once hitted to moment when I got "battery low" warning without having any spares or ways to get spares. And it was just my fault as I totally forgot how much I had used camera in last week while being off-grid.

But after warning I knew I had about 150-200 frames to take typical manner, or spend about 20-30 minutes on-time.
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Goethe said:
Have you ever shot professionally, or done paid work?
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I think that most dpreview commenters has just couple friend-jobs under their belt, if even that.

They ain't prepared to do serious work for living, in situations where you have one change only or where you need to put yourself and model in worse situations than you can deliver ever through photographs.

It is comfy and easy to comment at home front of computer that it is something else, but really crawling in the mud, sleeping in the same hide for week or two without possibilities step outside (you are doing your needs in that hide as well, usually that hide is a very tiny small tent or build shack) or you are just moving a lot without "home base".

And then it comes to these "Oh, mirrorless are bad because battery" and "Mirrorless are terrible in AF" and never they have even put their feet to situations that many professional does.

And when someone shows great results in challenging situations, they even dare to start bashing about the work!
 
Lee Jay said:
I've managed 2,250 shots and several hours of viewfinder time, all with continuous tracking autofocus, and all on large, optically stabilized lenses, on one battery with 10% remaining. I normally carry three of those though I've never needed more than two.
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Depends on what you're shooting. In shooting situations similar to what you mention above, using a mirrorless camera with the exact same batteries that the OP is using, I can routinely average 1,300 shots with several hours of viewfinder time, all with continuous tracking autofocus, and all on medium to large stabilized and nonstabilized lenses. I carry a total of 3 backup batteries, but never needed more than 2 of them. Time needed to change a battery in the field when I run one down? 12 seconds, including shutting down the camera, opening battery door, popping out battery, tossing in pocket, pulling out new battery, inserting, shutting door and powering back up, ready to shoot. In order to not be caught out for 12 seconds when something important is happening, I monitor my remaining battery percentage on the display - when it gets to 5%, I start planning for a good moment when I have 10-20 seconds or more to perform the swap - that way I'm not waiting until the battery goes dead right when I need to shoot something...rarely are you shooting continuous frames for 2+ hours without a 20 second break somewhere...so timing the battery change during that opportunity means you don't miss a moment.

I also shoot with DSLRs, and can exceed 3,500 shots on one battery - no question they last longer. But for me at least, it's really not that difficult to plan around an extra 1 or 2 battery changes during a long day shoot, without ever missing a moment.

And you can buy chargers that can charge multiple batteries. In my case, after a shoot, if I need to shoot the next day, I can stick two batteries on one charger, plug in the camera to charge a 3rd battery via USB, and since I never end up using that 4th battery, I already have one charged. Next day I've got 4 fully charged batteries again, ready to go.

 
Lee Jay said:
No, he failed to be professional in front of a client.
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There are FAR more unprofessional acts a photographer can perform than that. I doubt most people would think it was much more than a minor inconvenience to all concerned.

And in any case, that is irrelevant to the theme of the post.
 
Tommi K1 said:
Lee Jay said:
SpinOne said:
Here we go
Member said:
You only get 300-400 shots out of a battery, over a relatively short time using the viewfinder, using non-stabilized lenses and on subjects that don't require tracking autofocus?

Geeze...that's truly awful.
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And yet, the OP somehow managed to get the shots, and wasn't deterred even by needing to take 2 minutes to fetch a battery out of his bag.
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Doing that in front of a client is highly unprofessional.
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LOL!

I think that in track racing the 1-2 pit stops to fuel and change tires is as well very unprofessional.

Or keep the lunch periods is as well very unprofessional.

Switching lenses is as well very extremely unprofessional, why you need to have at least 4-5 bodies with each having a own lens and switching those cameras then hanging around your body!

AD or client looking the photos over shoulder, peeking them, asking things etc while the shoot is going.... Very unprofessional, right.... There just ain't anything like never done like giving an ipad for client to see the shots you take so they can work with you.... Stop you from doing something and ask something different etc.
Member said:
Member said:
Member said:
I've managed 2,250 shots and several hours of viewfinder time, all with continuous tracking autofocus, and all on large, optically stabilized lenses, on one battery with 10% remaining.
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I can easily bang off 2000 shots at 10fps on a mirrorless camera, and barely put a dent in the battery.
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"...and several hours of viewfinder time..."
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I can get 3 hours viewfinder time with single battery, and record either in that time video or shoot full bursts all the time.

Mirrorless cameras are time based, not frame based.
Member said:
Member said:
It isn't the shutter, or autofocus, or stabilization, that chews up battery time. It's the EVF or LCD.
Member said:
Sounds like I'd need 20 batteries or so if I had your camera. How much would that cost and how long would it take to recharge them? I've had to do that sort of shooting several days in a row....
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Yes, we know, you're a stud.
Member said:
many times and the last thing I'd want to do when I get home after a day like that is spend all night swapping batteries in and out of a charger.
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So much for studliness. Putting batteries in a charger is torturous?
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Putting a battery a charger every hour all night sure would be.
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Okay, now I know you know nothing about professional photography....

- You will recharge and replace batteries for flashes.

- You will clean and check every stand, tripod, clamp, lamp, light modifier after use and before packing them.

- You will package every gear before leaving, after shoot and after studio.

- You will re-check gear before leaving from studio or leaving the location.

- You will keep a small stock of all kind consumable parts, from batteries, cables, light modifiers, stands to filters, lenses, bodies etc.

Not to mention even that you will manage the files backups, distribution, management etc.

Putting a empty battery to an charger is cumbersome for you, meaning you are incapable to handle any professional gear.
Member said:
Member said:
Who knew?

Anyway, the OP is describing a very typical use scenario, and did just fine.
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No, he failed to be professional in front of a client.
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No, you failed in commenting.

A changing battery mid-shoot is no problem.

Unless you are an idiot:

ROFL......

Oh boy.... "Unprofessional in front of the client".

Cameras will show the battery warning way before it is depleted. You have so much time to just prepare for the swap by keeping a pause or something.

If he would have forgotten to bring any spares, or all spares would have been totally empty (forgot to recharge) and required to stop shooting, go to get them or organize a new camera, THAT would have been unprofessional!

No wonder DSLR shooters are so terrible sometimes as their excuses against mirrorless cameras are so bad... Maybe they have so good assistants that they don't even know their DSLR has batteries when assistants are making so great job by keeping all in correct condition....

But seriously, you have over 51 000 posts here, and you claim that changing a battery in front of the client is unprofessional.....

Oh jeez..... laughs of the month.
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Omg...this^^.

I'm nominating you for a Pulitzer in Literature for this post. :)

And your comment about mirrorless being time based, not frame based...thats freaking genius. That never occurred to me before but is absolutely true.
 
Switching batteries is "unprofessional".........smh..........

I only use a superzoom lens because switching lenses would be unprofessional. .........

This could go on and on. Professional involves meeting the clients needs. If the shoot involves complete undivided attention for hours on end I would definitely recommend a DSLR, superzoom or as many bodies as you have lenses strapped to you, and likely adult diapers. Seriously

If the OP cares...... keeping a battery in the pocket would be a good idea for two reasons. Speed and the battery would last a bit longer after insertion in the camera because it would be a few degrees warmer.
 
Tommi K1 said:
Member said:
Lee Jay wrote:No, he failed to be professional in front of a client.
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No, you failed in commenting.

A changing battery mid-shoot is no problem.
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He made the client wait to do that while he went and fetched a battery from another location. First, he should have changed the battery before it died during down time like a transition. Second, he should have had it with him.
 
Goethe said:
And your comment about mirrorless being time based, not frame based...thats freaking genius. That never occurred to me before but is absolutely true.
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No it's not. And most won't last an hour of continuous viewfinder and tracking autofocus time.
 
Goethe said:
But with both of those he-man time sinks mastered you cant even swap out charging batteries.....
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I can change a battery. I just rarely need to, and I'd never make a client wait for me to do it.
 
golfhov said:
Switching batteries is "unprofessional"
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Making a client wait for you to go fetch one from your bag "25 yards away" in cold weather is unprofessional.
golfhov said:
I only use a superzoom lens because switching lenses would be unprofessional. .........
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I use two bodies to avoid that.
golfhov said:
This could go on and on. Professional involves meeting the clients needs.
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And leaving a kid in the cold is meeting their needs?

--

Lee Jay
 
zackiedawg said:
Lee Jay said:
I've managed 2,250 shots and several hours of viewfinder time, all with continuous tracking autofocus, and all on large, optically stabilized lenses, on one battery with 10% remaining. I normally carry three of those though I've never needed more than two.
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Depends on what you're shooting. In shooting situations similar to what you mention above, using a mirrorless camera with the exact same batteries that the OP is using, I can routinely average 1,300 shots with several hours of viewfinder time, all with continuous tracking autofocus, and all on medium to large stabilized and nonstabilized lenses.
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So why is the OP only getting 300-400 shots doing a far less intensive thing?
 
Lee Jay said:
So why is the OP only getting 300-400 shots doing a far less intensive thing?
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My guess is he's spending a lot more time working on setting up shots, trying different angles, working with the children...lots of viewfinder on time but without firing frames, a fair amount of chimping/image review...plus the cold weather on top of that.

Even with a DSLR, how you shoot will impact how many shots you get. A typical CIPA rating of 1,000 for a DSLR involves taking photos, focusing, image review, using flash, etc all mixed together...which is why a camera with a CIPA rating of 1,040 frames on a battery can easily exceed 3,500 frames when shooting much more frequently, using burst a lot, no flash, no image review, and less down time between shots. Similarly, my mirrorless camera has a CIPA rating of 400, but I can regularly hit 1,300 when shooting more frequently like with events, sports, or wildlife shooting.

 
I imagine lugging the chair and book was way more of a hardship than carrying/changing the battery.
 
zackiedawg said:
Lee Jay said:
So why is the OP only getting 300-400 shots doing a far less intensive thing?
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My guess is he's spending a lot more time working on setting up shots, trying different angles, working with the children...lots of viewfinder on time but without firing frames, a fair amount of chimping/image review...plus the cold weather on top of that.
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Wow, its almost like you were there looking over my shoulder. :)

The only chimping though was from the parents wanting to see some of the shots. I dont normally do that so much but with the horrible conditions I let them see a lot of the images which blew them away. This reinvigorated them and got them excited so they spurred on their kids participation. I felt like they needed a moral boost because of the crappy weather.

But yes, lots of camera on time. Posing the kids in the chair, checking angles and light, composing backgrounds (crap...that big limb is in the way on the ground). All kinds of stuff like that. Of course I could turn the camera off and on and off and on and off and on...but generally I dont worry about it. I choose the convenience of having the camera ready to go knowing that I am using more juice. Because if I run out....

you guessed it...

I have more batteries. :)
zackiedawg said:
Even with a DSLR, how you shoot will impact how many shots you get. A typical CIPA rating of 1,000 for a DSLR involves taking photos, focusing, image review, using flash, etc all mixed together...which is why a camera with a CIPA rating of 1,040 frames on a battery can easily exceed 3,500 frames when shooting much more frequently, using burst a lot, no flash, no image review, and less down time between shots. Similarly, my mirrorless camera has a CIPA rating of 400, but I can regularly hit 1,300 when shooting more frequently like with events, sports, or wildlife shooting.
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richiebee said:
I imagine lugging the chair and book was way more of a hardship than carrying/changing the battery.
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Omg, you have no idea. It was a pain in my butt. That chair is pretty heavy and only got heavier as the day went by.
 
Lee Jay said:
golfhov said:
Switching batteries is "unprofessional"
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Making a client wait for you to go fetch one from your bag "25 yards away" in cold weather is unprofessional.
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it all depends. Every delay is "unprofessional" in that sense. Memory card switch, lighting adjustment, lens switch, directing your "models", waiting on an enviromental issue you cannot control, etc, etc, etc.....................there are TONS of small delays that can be involved in a shoot. So is life
Lee Jay said:
Lee Jay said:
I only use a superzoom lens because switching lenses would be unprofessional. .........
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I use two bodies to avoid that.
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do you only use two lenses? if so then boom you have it covered. A lot of event shooters DO use only two lenses or more. He wasn't at an event.
Lee Jay said:
Lee Jay said:
This could go on and on. Professional involves meeting the clients needs.
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And leaving a kid in the cold is meeting their needs?
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"We had to rotate the kids out of the warm vehicle we had standing by, having them walk across the wet ground in rain boots only to have them take off jackets and swap to nicer shoes once they were in front of the camera."

the OP seemed quite interested in providing the best comfort for his clients he could. I agreee that the OP COULD have been a little more efficient by keeping a battery on him or at least monitoring the situation a bit closer. All in all a three to five minute delay is not a complete deal breaker in the type of shoot he was doing.
Lee Jay said:
--

Lee Jay
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Look this stuff isn't rocket science. Your batteries last a shorter time in cold conditions. One must plan accordingly. The OP COULD have handled it a bit better. I think beating him up over one small delay is just being petty.

A professional must absolutely understand their equipment and how to use it. IF something with their equipment causes issues they should switch it. Event shooters do need to be very aware of battery life, how to monitor it, and how to handle it. Pretty easy work around generally speaking. You know the important parts of the event and plan accordingly.

Sports and wildlife shooters are an exception on battery life. They can spend hours waiting, ready, and dealing with the unpredictable. It is unlikely but 30 seconds CAN be the difference between getting the product or not.

I am not pretending that battery life cannot be an issue or is not very different than DSLRs. I just think most advocates of DSLRs are making a mountain out of a mole hill
 
Lee Jay said:
Goethe said:
And your comment about mirrorless being time based, not frame based...thats freaking genius. That never occurred to me before but is absolutely true.
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No it's not. And most won't last an hour of continuous viewfinder and tracking autofocus time.
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