EF-S: a smart move from Canon

Tom Crowning · Aug 20, 2003

I know a LOT of people who would move to DSLR if (for a similar price as the better consumer digicams) only a lens would be included.

Here you have a special 'beginners' lens which nobody else can use (aka doesn't hurt other lens sales) for very small money.

And once you have the people, you'll sell to a percentage of them other lenses as well.
Very clever!
tc

--
Some digital cameras, some lenses, 2 eyes

http://www.tom-crowning.com

Greg_L · Aug 20, 2003

Here's how I see it.

Canon needs to release a lens like this because digital rebel users
are seeking wide angle solutions. If there's no EF-S lens, what are
they going to buy? $700 17-40L? I don't think so. Tamron 19-35? And
you think Canon will give up in this segment? I don't think so. This
18-55 EF-S is perfect for digital rebel users seeking wide angle
solutions. Sure it's not a high quality lens like 17-40L, but not
everyone has that budget or needs an L lens.

This is only a temporary solution to wide angle(for entry level
users, the advance amatuers will buy the primes or the 17-40L).
Unike Nikon, which is heavily producing and promoting DX lenses.
Canon is not committed to EF-S lenses.

Tom Crowning said:
I know a LOT of people who would move to DSLR if (for a similar
price as the better consumer digicams) only a lens would be
included.
Here you have a special 'beginners' lens which nobody else can use
(aka doesn't hurt other lens sales) for very small money.
And once you have the people, you'll sell to a percentage of them
other lenses as well.
Very clever!
tc

--
Some digital cameras, some lenses, 2 eyes

http://www.tom-crowning.com

Tom Crowning · Aug 20, 2003

It's just 'THE' solution: new Canon owners need a lens. Any lens. Don't matter what lens. Don't matter how good it is.

Most Kiss buyers will come from digital point&shot and don't even know what WA means.
tc

math1b said:
Canon needs to release a lens like this because digital rebel users
are seeking wide angle solutions. If there's no EF-S lens, what are
they going to buy? $700 17-40L? I don't think so. Tamron 19-35? And
you think Canon will give up in this segment? I don't think so. This
18-55 EF-S is perfect for digital rebel users seeking wide angle
solutions. Sure it's not a high quality lens like 17-40L, but not
everyone has that budget or needs an L lens.

This is only a temporary solution to wide angle(for entry level
users, the advance amatuers will buy the primes or the 17-40L).
Unike Nikon, which is heavily producing and promoting DX lenses.
Canon is not committed to EF-S lenses.

Tom Crowning said:

I know a LOT of people who would move to DSLR if (for a similar
price as the better consumer digicams) only a lens would be
included.
Here you have a special 'beginners' lens which nobody else can use
(aka doesn't hurt other lens sales) for very small money.
And once you have the people, you'll sell to a percentage of them
other lenses as well.
Very clever!
tc

--
Some digital cameras, some lenses, 2 eyes

http://www.tom-crowning.com

Click to expand...

--
Some digital cameras, some lenses, 2 eyes

http://www.tom-crowning.com

GDD · Aug 20, 2003

math1b said:
Here's how I see it.

Canon needs to release a lens like this because digital rebel users
are seeking wide angle solutions. If there's no EF-S lens, what are
they going to buy? $700 17-40L? I don't think so.

I can see the need for a cheap wide-angle solution, but why the EF-S design? A similar lens for normal EF mount or even reduced image circle would maybe cost a little more, but would be usable for D30/60/10. Than you would have a great lens to combine with a 28-135 or 28-105.

I'm just a bit disappointed in the EF-S, a DX-kind-of-lens would have been more usefull in my eyes.
Geert.

Tom Crowning · Aug 20, 2003

As I said before, this lens is NOT a WA a solution, it's just a very inexpensive starting lens.
Kudos to Canon to NOT make the same move as Nikon with his dedicated WA lens.
tc

GDD said:
math1b said:

Here's how I see it.

Canon needs to release a lens like this because digital rebel users
are seeking wide angle solutions. If there's no EF-S lens, what are
they going to buy? $700 17-40L? I don't think so.

Click to expand...

I can see the need for a cheap wide-angle solution, but why the
EF-S design? A similar lens for normal EF mount or even reduced
image circle would maybe cost a little more, but would be usable
for D30/60/10. Than you would have a great lens to combine with a
28-135 or 28-105.

I'm just a bit disappointed in the EF-S, a DX-kind-of-lens would
have been more usefull in my eyes.
Geert.

--
Some digital cameras, some lenses, 2 eyes

http://www.tom-crowning.com

Gino99815 · Aug 20, 2003

I thought from the other price postings that this lens cost more than the camera... Around $1000. That is not less than $700... Please correct me if I'm wrong.

math1b said:
Canon needs to release a lens like this because digital rebel users
are seeking wide angle solutions. If there's no EF-S lens, what are
they going to buy? $700 17-40L? I don't think so. Tamron 19-35? And
you think Canon will give up in this segment? I don't think so. This
18-55 EF-S is perfect for digital rebel users seeking wide angle
solutions. Sure it's not a high quality lens like 17-40L, but not
everyone has that budget or needs an L lens.

This is only a temporary solution to wide angle(for entry level
users, the advance amatuers will buy the primes or the 17-40L).
Unike Nikon, which is heavily producing and promoting DX lenses.
Canon is not committed to EF-S lenses.

Tom Crowning said:

I know a LOT of people who would move to DSLR if (for a similar
price as the better consumer digicams) only a lens would be
included.
Here you have a special 'beginners' lens which nobody else can use
(aka doesn't hurt other lens sales) for very small money.
And once you have the people, you'll sell to a percentage of them
other lenses as well.
Very clever!
tc

--
Some digital cameras, some lenses, 2 eyes

http://www.tom-crowning.com

Click to expand...

--
Gino Alvarez http://www.cmhphoto.com

Gino99815 · Aug 20, 2003

Gino said:
math1b said:

Canon needs to release a lens like this because digital rebel users
are seeking wide angle solutions. If there's no EF-S lens, what are
they going to buy? $700 17-40L? I don't think so. Tamron 19-35? And
you think Canon will give up in this segment? I don't think so. This
18-55 EF-S is perfect for digital rebel users seeking wide angle
solutions. Sure it's not a high quality lens like 17-40L, but not
everyone has that budget or needs an L lens.

This is only a temporary solution to wide angle(for entry level
users, the advance amatuers will buy the primes or the 17-40L).
Unike Nikon, which is heavily producing and promoting DX lenses.
Canon is not committed to EF-S lenses.

Tom Crowning said:

I know a LOT of people who would move to DSLR if (for a similar
price as the better consumer digicams) only a lens would be
included.
Here you have a special 'beginners' lens which nobody else can use
(aka doesn't hurt other lens sales) for very small money.
And once you have the people, you'll sell to a percentage of them
other lenses as well.
Very clever!
tc

--
Some digital cameras, some lenses, 2 eyes

http://www.tom-crowning.com

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
Gino Alvarez http://www.cmhphoto.com

--
Gino Alvarez http://www.cmhphoto.com

ngap · Aug 20, 2003

They are also changing their extension tubes over to accept the new mounting system.

Sounds like a commitment to change to the new mount to me.

http://213.247.48.188/menu.asp#

kanefsky · Aug 20, 2003

GDD said:
I can see the need for a cheap wide-angle solution, but why the
EF-S design? A similar lens for normal EF mount or even reduced
image circle would maybe cost a little more, but would be usable
for D30/60/10. Than you would have a great lens to combine with a
28-135 or 28-105.

I think the main reason is to make the lens smaller so the size of the camera+lens doesn't put people off because it's too bulky compared to the high-end P&S cameras. It probably makes the lens less expensive and easier to design as well.

I also think they want the D30/60/10D users to stick with full-frame lenses because they want those people to upgrade eventually to a body with a larger sensor. Right now there's not that much to differentiate the 300D and the 10D, so there's a good chance that future 10D upgrades will have a larger sensor.

--
Steve

David SL · Aug 20, 2003

math1b said:
Here's how I see it.

This is only a temporary solution to wide angle(for entry level
users, the advance amatuers will buy the primes or the 17-40L).
Unike Nikon, which is heavily producing and promoting DX lenses.
Canon is not committed to EF-S lenses.

So they designed and produced a new body AND lens range and they aren't committed? You have an interesting definition of the word.

--

Greg_L · Aug 20, 2003

Tom Crowning said:
GDD said:

math1b said:

Here's how I see it.

Canon needs to release a lens like this because digital rebel users
are seeking wide angle solutions. If there's no EF-S lens, what are
they going to buy? $700 17-40L? I don't think so.

Click to expand...

I can see the need for a cheap wide-angle solution, but why the
EF-S design? A similar lens for normal EF mount or even reduced
image circle would maybe cost a little more, but would be usable
for D30/60/10. Than you would have a great lens to combine with a
28-135 or 28-105.

I'm just a bit disappointed in the EF-S, a DX-kind-of-lens would
have been more usefull in my eyes.
Geert.

Click to expand...

--
Some digital cameras, some lenses, 2 eyes

http://www.tom-crowning.com

salem · Aug 20, 2003

kanefsky said:
I also think they want the D30/60/10D users to stick with
full-frame lenses because they want those people to upgrade
eventually to a body with a larger sensor. Right now there's not
that much to differentiate the 300D and the 10D, so there's a good
chance that future 10D upgrades will have a larger sensor.

--
Steve

I actually think canon did a good job of possitioning this camera. The "pentamirror" and 4 image buffer is enough to keep me wanting the 10D instead.

Nicholas J · Aug 20, 2003

The following is from http://www.canon-europe.com/EOS300D

Interview with Alessandro Stanzani, Canon's head of marketing.
Note the last sentence.....

Is the EF-S lens the start of a new EF-S series?

The short back focus system of the EOS 300D provided a route for Canon to develop the EF?S 18?55mm - a high performance, low weight, short length, cost effective standard zoom lens for EOS 300D customers. This lens only fits the EOS 300D but, as with all EOS cameras, the EOS 300D fits every lens in the EF range. So when the time comes for EOS 300D customers to consider their next lens, they will share the advantage of every other EOS user by having the whole range of over 60 EF lenses to choose from. This particular EF-S lens is therefore seen as a specialised lens within the EF range. It is the EF range to which we are committed and to which Canon continues to invest substantial development resource.

ngap said:
They are also changing their extension tubes over to accept the new
mounting system.

Sounds like a commitment to change to the new mount to me.

http://213.247.48.188/menu.asp#

--
Nicholas J
http://www.pbase.com/nhanekom

ngap · Aug 20, 2003

Nothing states they are not going to extend the range, rather they are still going to keep and develop the other range. A similar comment was made by Nikon and Pentax.

Nicholas J said:
Interview with Alessandro Stanzani, Canon's head of marketing.
Note the last sentence.....

Is the EF-S lens the start of a new EF-S series?

The short back focus system of the EOS 300D provided a route for
Canon to develop the EF?S 18?55mm - a high performance, low weight,
short length, cost effective standard zoom lens for EOS 300D
customers. This lens only fits the EOS 300D but, as with all EOS
cameras, the EOS 300D fits every lens in the EF range. So when the
time comes for EOS 300D customers to consider their next lens, they
will share the advantage of every other EOS user by having the
whole range of over 60 EF lenses to choose from. This particular
EF-S lens is therefore seen as a specialised lens within the EF
range. It is the EF range to which we are committed and to which
Canon continues to invest substantial development resource.

ngap said:

They are also changing their extension tubes over to accept the new
mounting system.

Sounds like a commitment to change to the new mount to me.

http://213.247.48.188/menu.asp#

Click to expand...

--
Nicholas J
http://www.pbase.com/nhanekom

Akin Koksal · Aug 20, 2003

Nicholas J said:
Interview with Alessandro Stanzani, Canon's head of marketing.
Note the last sentence.....

Is the EF-S lens the start of a new EF-S series?

The short back focus system of the EOS 300D provided a route for
Canon to develop the EF?S 18?55mm - a high performance, low weight,
short length, cost effective standard zoom lens for EOS 300D
customers. This lens only fits the EOS 300D but, as with all EOS
cameras, the EOS 300D fits every lens in the EF range. So when the
time comes for EOS 300D customers to consider their next lens, they
will share the advantage of every other EOS user by having the
whole range of over 60 EF lenses to choose from. This particular
EF-S lens is therefore seen as a specialised lens within the EF
range. It is the EF range to which we are committed and to which
Canon continues to invest substantial development resource.

ngap said:

They are also changing their extension tubes over to accept the new
mounting system.

Sounds like a commitment to change to the new mount to me.

http://213.247.48.188/menu.asp#

Click to expand...

--
Nicholas J
http://www.pbase.com/nhanekom

GDD · Aug 20, 2003

That only proves that EF-S bodies won't affest the usability of EF lenses. But why would Canon change the extension tubes if it's only temporary and they are not planning for more EF-S bodies? I bet most Rebel buyers never heard of an extension-tube and will never use one.
Geert.

Akin Koksal · Aug 20, 2003

But when you present a new product, especially with some design changes, your words are pretety much important to your potential customers.

If Canon was considering to invest money on this EF-S thing, they would have mention it in their press release.

I'm not considering to buy this camera, so I'm happy that they'll not be wasting their time for EF-S lenses...

On the other hand, anybody who considers to buy this camera must feel a little space around their stomach after reading the last centence of Mr. Canon Market Head...

ngap said:
Nicholas J said:

Interview with Alessandro Stanzani, Canon's head of marketing.
Note the last sentence.....

Is the EF-S lens the start of a new EF-S series?

The short back focus system of the EOS 300D provided a route for
Canon to develop the EF?S 18?55mm - a high performance, low weight,
short length, cost effective standard zoom lens for EOS 300D
customers. This lens only fits the EOS 300D but, as with all EOS
cameras, the EOS 300D fits every lens in the EF range. So when the
time comes for EOS 300D customers to consider their next lens, they
will share the advantage of every other EOS user by having the
whole range of over 60 EF lenses to choose from. This particular
EF-S lens is therefore seen as a specialised lens within the EF
range. It is the EF range to which we are committed and to which
Canon continues to invest substantial development resource.

ngap said:

They are also changing their extension tubes over to accept the new
mounting system.

Sounds like a commitment to change to the new mount to me.

http://213.247.48.188/menu.asp#

Click to expand...

--
Nicholas J
http://www.pbase.com/nhanekom

Click to expand...

GDD · Aug 20, 2003

Tom Crowning said:
As I said before, this lens is NOT a WA a solution, it's just a
very inexpensive starting lens.

I've got nothing against the 18-55, but WHERE is Canons consumer WA solution? There is a L-grade solution, but zooms like the 28-135 and 105-28 still miss the wide end. It's just that I would have preferred it so much more if they came up with something like a 20-60 that fits both the Rebel and the 10D.
Geert.

Greg_L · Aug 20, 2003

though might not be a high quality one.

GDD said:
Tom Crowning said:

As I said before, this lens is NOT a WA a solution, it's just a
very inexpensive starting lens.

Click to expand...

I've got nothing against the 18-55, but WHERE is Canons consumer WA
solution? There is a L-grade solution, but zooms like the 28-135
and 105-28 still miss the wide end. It's just that I would have
preferred it so much more if they came up with something like a
20-60 that fits both the Rebel and the 10D.
Geert.

Jojosung · Aug 20, 2003

since this lens is dedicated to 300D.... i bet you that the crop factor does not apply...so the 18-55 alreaday accounted for the crop factor

EF-S: a smart move from Canon

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