Adobe CC end of 1st year

"It's good to be . . . . . . . . . Me!"
This is just tedious.

What features did Lightroom introduce that were not previously available in Photoshop and / or Camera Raw?

Image cataloging.

This is the beginning of the original announcement:

SAN JOSE, Calif. — Jan. 29, 2007 — Adobe Systems Incorporated (Nasdaq:ADBE) today announced that Adobe Photoshop® Lightroom™ 1.0 software is now available for pre-order and is expected to ship in mid-February 2007. Photoshop Lightroom enables professional photographers to import, manage and present large volumes of digital photographs, helping photographers spend more time behind the lens and less time at the computer.

RAW conversion is mentioned like this: Photoshop Lightroom leverages Adobe Camera Raw technology and supports over 150 native raw file formats, in addition to JPEG and TIFF, bringing raw conversion into a single workflow experience.
 
Software companies like the subscription model. You don't pay for the software once, you keep paying for it over and over. Public software companies are heavily evaluated on renewals under the assumption that people rent for 12 months at a time. As companies shift to this rental/subscription model, we will see more end of term acts of customer service.
Subscription models make sense for everyone. Continual revenue for the developer, so they can deliver continual updates for the user, no incentive from developer to abandon the software, lower upfront purchase price for consumer increases addressable market. It's all good.
 
Well, not really. The perpetual licence model has greater incentives for the developer to invest, in order to persuade people to part with money for the upgrades.
That's the business they're in. It's not a chore for them. The subscription model does increase addressable market. The stand alone cost of CS6 (?) Photoshop Extended and Lightroom was about £1000. Now it's £9 per month. Very few people have £1000 for software, many more have £9 per month.
With something like PS/LR, subscription is a positive disincentive for the software maker to invest. I mean: why would they? Unless/until competition produces a more attractive product, people have to pay just to use the software. No need for Adobe to update it. I'll bet this was a factor in moving to CC: from about PS CS3 or CS4 onwards, the incremental enhancements in each major release were seen as smaller, and more users were skipping releases. I'm sure this is why Adobe changed to allowing update of only the immediately prior release.
All technology evolves to the point where each new release is purely iterative. What do you think the updates to iPhones or each new generation of cars now? The point is the iterative improvements add up to a lot. Go and look at Lightroom 4 and compare to the latest version. There are a lot of differences, all of them for the better.
However, regular and predictable income is a clear benefit for a software maker, and it's not a bad model for the user if the price is right. And I reckon the price is about right for PS/LR, comparing it to the amortised cost of buying the software and updates in the previous model.
It's an absolute steal in terms of value.
We just have to hope for enough competition to keep Adobe's feet to the fire.
Competition is a fine thing, and I think there is more of than ever now.
 
Well, not really. The perpetual licence model has greater incentives for the developer to invest, in order to persuade people to part with money for the upgrades.
That's the business they're in. It's not a chore for them. The subscription model does increase addressable market. The stand alone cost of CS6 (?) Photoshop Extended and Lightroom was about £1000. Now it's £9 per month. Very few people have £1000 for software, many more have £9 per month.
With something like PS/LR, subscription is a positive disincentive for the software maker to invest. I mean: why would they? Unless/until competition produces a more attractive product, people have to pay just to use the software. No need for Adobe to update it. I'll bet this was a factor in moving to CC: from about PS CS3 or CS4 onwards, the incremental enhancements in each major release were seen as smaller, and more users were skipping releases. I'm sure this is why Adobe changed to allowing update of only the immediately prior release.
All technology evolves to the point where each new release is purely iterative. What do you think the updates to iPhones or each new generation of cars now? The point is the iterative improvements add up to a lot. Go and look at Lightroom 4 and compare to the latest version. There are a lot of differences, all of them for the better.
However, regular and predictable income is a clear benefit for a software maker, and it's not a bad model for the user if the price is right. And I reckon the price is about right for PS/LR, comparing it to the amortised cost of buying the software and updates in the previous model.
It's an absolute steal in terms of value.
We just have to hope for enough competition to keep Adobe's feet to the fire.
Competition is a fine thing, and I think there is more of than ever now.

--
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I'm not disagreeing with you, except that I don't think the subscription model of itself necessarily increases the incentive to invest in product development.

While a subscription model product meets a continuing user need and while competition does not attract customers away, no need to enhance the product.

In fact the pressure from the corporate can be not to invest while recurring revenues continue to roll in. I've seen that in a number of industries, such as telecoms. Back in the '90s, telephony was a cash cow, and the Internet was a disruptive technology that looked like entirely bad news. Telephony was pay-per-use, but Internet was a fixed price service that was clearly going to lead to lower revenues without a lot of risky investment. And why invest? Telephony was bringing in revenue (at the time) with less risk and much less hard work. The telcos hated the Internet, and existing telephony product lines fought tooth and nail to try to kill it, nearly killing the telcos in the process. I speak as a former industry insider.

Established companies with established recurring revenues get rather cosy, and don't invest if they perceive that don't have to, and to dominant players in the market it will often look as if they don't have to. Been there, done that, didn't like the T-shirt.

--
Simon
 
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I'm not disagreeing with you, except that I don't think the subscription model of itself necessarily increases the incentive to invest in product development.
Oh I do.

Well, it's the other way around. It doesn't incentivise them to abandon it. One of the biggest problems with standalone apps is the economics of supporting them. People pay once and then demand bug fixes and updates for ever, and that is just not sustainable.

The other thing about subs models is the legalities. The software provider can't just abandon it without being in breach of contract, and because everyone's contracts start at different times it creates a perpetual problem for them.
While a subscription model product meets a continuing user need and while competition does not attract customers away, no need to enhance the product.
I think that is just a very negative way of looking at it. When has that ever happened to a subs product? It's happened plenty to standalone software.

Put it this way, Apple abandoned Aperture, even though it had a lot of loyal users who were waiting patiently for version 4. But Apple wasn't making any money from it, everyone who was going to buy it had. If Apple had a recurring revenue stream from the product would they have discontinued it so quickly? I think it would have changed the conversation.

You get competitors whether or not you're selling standalone software or subscriptions. Technology moves on, and you need to keep up with it.
In fact the pressure from the corporate can be not to invest while recurring revenues continue to roll in. I've seen that in a number of industries, such as telecoms. Back in the '90s, telephony was a cash cow, and the Internet was a disruptive technology that looked like entirely bad news. Telephony was pay-per-use, but Internet was a fixed price service that was clearly going to lead to lower revenues without a lot of risky investment. And why invest? Telephony was bringing in revenue (at the time) with less risk and much less hard work. The telcos hated the Internet, and existing telephony product lines fought tooth and nail to try to kill it, nearly killing the telcos in the process. I speak as a former industry insider.
Yeah, and look at the winner!

And, in fact, most telcos, etc. just work to ARPU and now LTV revenue models.
Established companies with established recurring revenues get rather cosy, and don't invest if they perceive that don't have to, and to dominant players in the market it will often look as if they don't have to. Been there, done that, didn't like the T-shirt.
But look who wins. It's the companies who invest in their products, and the ones who don't die, regardless of their licensing model.
 
I don't have a problem with the subscription model itself. I do have a problem with the way Adobe uses one.

You have to sign up for a year. If you want to leave early there's a financial penalty. You can't subscribe month to month. Yes you can pay monthly, but you're just paying a 12 month subscription in installments.

If Adobe allowed uses to subscribe on a month by month basis - as companies such as Netflix do - then the model wouldn't seem so restrictive.
 
I'm not disagreeing with you, except that I don't think the subscription model of itself necessarily increases the incentive to invest in product development.
Oh I do.

Well, it's the other way around. It doesn't incentivise them to abandon it. One of the biggest problems with standalone apps is the economics of supporting them. People pay once and then demand bug fixes and updates for ever, and that is just not sustainable.

The other thing about subs models is the legalities. The software provider can't just abandon it without being in breach of contract, and because everyone's contracts start at different times it creates a perpetual problem for them.
While a subscription model product meets a continuing user need and while competition does not attract customers away, no need to enhance the product.
I think that is just a very negative way of looking at it. When has that ever happened to a subs product? It's happened plenty to standalone software.

Put it this way, Apple abandoned Aperture, even though it had a lot of loyal users who were waiting patiently for version 4. But Apple wasn't making any money from it, everyone who was going to buy it had. If Apple had a recurring revenue stream from the product would they have discontinued it so quickly? I think it would have changed the conversation.

You get competitors whether or not you're selling standalone software or subscriptions. Technology moves on, and you need to keep up with it.
In fact the pressure from the corporate can be not to invest while recurring revenues continue to roll in. I've seen that in a number of industries, such as telecoms. Back in the '90s, telephony was a cash cow, and the Internet was a disruptive technology that looked like entirely bad news. Telephony was pay-per-use, but Internet was a fixed price service that was clearly going to lead to lower revenues without a lot of risky investment. And why invest? Telephony was bringing in revenue (at the time) with less risk and much less hard work. The telcos hated the Internet, and existing telephony product lines fought tooth and nail to try to kill it, nearly killing the telcos in the process. I speak as a former industry insider.
Yeah, and look at the winner!

And, in fact, most telcos, etc. just work to ARPU and now LTV revenue models.
Established companies with established recurring revenues get rather cosy, and don't invest if they perceive that don't have to, and to dominant players in the market it will often look as if they don't have to. Been there, done that, didn't like the T-shirt.
But look who wins. It's the companies who invest in their products, and the ones who don't die, regardless of their licensing model.
 
No Lightroom is primarily a raw converter.
No, that would be ACR.
The cataloguing, although it's a large part of Lightroom's appeal in many people's eyes, was never its prime asset.
Lightroom's only other assets were basically tools taken from ACR or Photoshop.

It's called "Photoshop Lightroom"

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Gareth, you work for Adobe, right? You just troll the forum saying great things about LR/PS everywhere. Narry a critical comment to be found.

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I like adobe products too. I have subscriptions to both creative cloud and document cloud. However, saying things like "CC is a steal" either indicates you have no clue how cloud/subscription based pricing works or you are simply trolling.

Given the fact that Gareth seems pretty smart, he knows that Adobe is a public company which employs numerous analysts to price their products at a competitive position. This makes their products valuable, but by definition, cannot be "a steal". If the products were a steal, Adobe is leaving valuable revenue on the table, these analysts are failing their company and the company is failing their shareholders.
 
I like adobe products too. I have subscriptions to both creative cloud and document cloud. However, saying things like "CC is a steal" either indicates you have no clue how cloud/subscription based pricing works or you are simply trolling.
No, the photography plan on Creative Cloud is a steal. Here's why:

d78283a4b077460e89471905c79fb0ff.jpg.png

You can have Lightroom AND Photoshop for £8.57 per month, OR you can have Photoshop *on its own* for £17.15 per month.

So, you pay double the price to not get Lightroom.

The only difference is you get more cloud storage space and perhaps some premium fonts with the Photoshop package.

But, how is that not a steal?

Check for yourself:

https://creative.adobe.com/plans

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Gareth you make me laugh. I'm giving your comment a thumbs up. It's great.
 
Your assessment is accurate, but the negativity is just slightly unwarranted. As a consumer, lack of innovation is certainly an issue after time, but not spending when unnecessary is extremely smart business. If your offering satisfies the needs of your consumers at the price you are asking, what is the incentive to spend on improvements for a product that apparently didn't need improving? This is where competition helps most, as new lines of thinking to meet consumer needs in new and/or cheaper ways leads to better products or better value for money. But generally, the company's goal is to offer the consumer just what they want, because offering less doesn't get you the sales you could, and offering more doesn't get you the profit margin you could.

The real failings occur in measuring performance and satisfaction of wants/needs. If you think you're giving your customers what they want, but aren't, then you're in trouble. If you're giving your customer what they want, but aren't going above and beyond, that's not really much of a problem - you're giving them what they want, after all. But in the long run, your product almost always needs improving.
 
You may want to check out the recently released Affinity Photo, which is a very capable competitor to the Lightroom/Photoshop combo, without the cataloguing features.
The cataloguing features being the main reason someone would use Lightroom. Without them it's just a version of Photoshop!
That's subjective.

I've been using Lightroom since V2 and I've never, ever used its cataloguing facility as my own method works perfectly well for me.

As for it being another version of Photoshop, that's not particularly accurate. While it's true that there's nothing in Lightroom that can't be achieved, one way or another, using Photoshop, the reverse is hardly true.

Lightroom's a reasonably good raw converter but as a editor, even in its more recent incarnations, it's fairly limited.
 
When I asked to cancel they gave me 3 free months.
That tells me how desperate they are to keep subscribers, and there 20% discount for new subscribers via e-mails.

Regards Patsym
-Seems to be working. Adobe revenue is up 22% this year to $5.85B.


Regards,
Ken
FAA Remote Pilot Certificate, ATP ASMEL
Mizzou PJ '66
 
You may want to check out the recently released Affinity Photo, which is a very capable competitor to the Lightroom/Photoshop combo, without the cataloguing features.
The cataloguing features being the main reason someone would use Lightroom. Without them it's just a version of Photoshop!
That's subjective.

I've been using Lightroom since V2 and I've never, ever used its cataloguing facility as my own method works perfectly well for me.

As for it being another version of Photoshop, that's not particularly accurate. While it's true that there's nothing in Lightroom that can't be achieved, one way or another, using Photoshop, the reverse is hardly true.

Lightroom's a reasonably good raw converter but as a editor, even in its more recent incarnations, it's fairly limited.
 
You may want to check out the recently released Affinity Photo, which is a very capable competitor to the Lightroom/Photoshop combo, without the cataloguing features.
The cataloguing features being the main reason someone would use Lightroom. Without them it's just a version of Photoshop!
That's subjective.

I've been using Lightroom since V2 and I've never, ever used its cataloguing facility as my own method works perfectly well for me.

As for it being another version of Photoshop, that's not particularly accurate. While it's true that there's nothing in Lightroom that can't be achieved, one way or another, using Photoshop, the reverse is hardly true.

Lightroom's a reasonably good raw converter but as a editor, even in its more recent incarnations, it's fairly limited.
 
Your assessment is accurate, but the negativity is just slightly unwarranted. As a consumer, lack of innovation is certainly an issue after time, but not spending when unnecessary is extremely smart business. If your offering satisfies the needs of your consumers at the price you are asking, what is the incentive to spend on improvements for a product that apparently didn't need improving? This is where competition helps most, as new lines of thinking to meet consumer needs in new and/or cheaper ways leads to better products or better value for money. But generally, the company's goal is to offer the consumer just what they want, because offering less doesn't get you the sales you could, and offering more doesn't get you the profit margin you could.

The real failings occur in measuring performance and satisfaction of wants/needs. If you think you're giving your customers what they want, but aren't, then you're in trouble. If you're giving your customer what they want, but aren't going above and beyond, that's not really much of a problem - you're giving them what they want, after all. But in the long run, your product almost always needs improving.
I agree with what you're saying. As you say, no point in spending too much.

I don't think I'm being negative in pointing out that utility businesses with recurring revenues may not always need to invest in new products, or enhance their existing products. In a sense, Photoshop is a utility product. It's still useful even if it doesn't get better! However, if you pay once for a perpetual licence, then Adobe must invest in new features, or they never get any revenue once the market is saturated. If you pay every month simply to carry on using the existing product, then Adobe don't need to invest, unless competition steals their market, or new customer needs make the existing product less attractive. Of course, by then it might be too late!

As you say, it's smart business not to spend when you don't need. That's not being negative or anti Adobe, it's a fact of (business) life. It's what their shareholders would expect. Don't make a product any better than it needs to be to secure the revenue.
 
Sorry, the negative slant seemed to be coming more from the exchange between you and the other poster, with the opposing positions not reconciling. But yes, nothing at all negative about being prudent in business.
 

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