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Low Key Portrait Question

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tetsusaiga

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I recently got into taking portraits, so I am a beginner. For my first monolight and octa-box, I bought the Flashpoint Xplor 600 HSS TTL (http://www.adorama.com/fplfx600tbs.html) and the Glow 47'' Grand octa-box (http://www.adorama.com/fpsb47r.html).

As an experiment, I wanted to see whether I can achieve a low key portrait based on this tutorial:

I shoot an A7R2 and a Sony 24-70 GM. I tried to experiment with this low key technique in my 12x12 room and my livingroom. These are my initial settings:

1. Shutter speed 1/250;

2. ISO 100;

3. Aperture f2.8; and

4. Subject standing 2 feet away from monolight.

With these settings, I took a test shot with the monolight turned off, and the frame was completely dark (i.e., pitch black). I turned on my monolight and took another shot. Although my subject was properly exposed, the light spilled over onto the background, thereby causing my walls to also be exposed by the monolight.

In an attempt to get around this, I used the High Speed Sync (HSS) function. My settings are the same as above, but this time my shutter speed was set to 1/2500. I got the same result - i.e., my subject and background were both exposed by the monolight.

No matter how much I decrease the power on the monolight and no matter how close I position the subject to the monolight, the light keeps spilling onto the wall and background.

What am I doing wrong? Is my octabox too big, thereby causing light to spill onto the background?

Any insight on this matter is greatly appreciated.
 
I just attempted, and accomplished, the very same thing this week. The problem is the size of the room, of which I share, so small that even typical procedures won't work. So the secret is feather the light, turn it obliquely in relation to the subject, then add a grid to further limit light spill. Finally, a reflector opposing the feathered softbox, on the other side of the subject, fills the hard shadows created by the oblique placement. Adjust individual placement of objects, and exposure factors, to taste.
 
Yes. Like he said. Just experiment a bit.

If subject is straight I front of you, place the softbox maybe one foot ahead of subject pointing directly across the subject. Basically point the softbox from its 3 o'clock position to 9 o'clock (subject at 12:00). the light will still fall on the subject, and much less on the wall behind.

Get the subject a few steps further from he wall too. Play with lightly positions until you get the results you want. You could also block light from hitting the back wall with a v-flat or something else to shade the wall.
 
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dinoSnake said:
I just attempted, and accomplished, the very same thing this week. The problem is the size of the room, of which I share, so small that even typical procedures won't work. So the secret is feather the light, turn it obliquely in relation to the subject, then add a grid to further limit light spill. Finally, a reflector opposing the feathered softbox, on the other side of the subject, fills the hard shadows created by the oblique placement. Adjust individual placement of objects, and exposure factors, to taste.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply. Can you explain what you mean by feather the light and turn it obliquely in relations to the subject. Also, how did your pictures come out?

I'm not sure that the problem is the size of the room. I believe the problem is the octabox/softbox is too big. The size of the octabox/softbox is causing the light to spill over to the background, while a small off-camera flash can focus the light more-or-less at a single spot. See for example this video:

But someone with more experience with lighting can maybe chime in and give this newb (me) some help.

Thanks.
 
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Don89 said:
Yes. Like he said. Just experiment a bit.

If subject is straight I front of you, place the softbox maybe one foot ahead of subject pointing directly across the subject. Basically point the softbox from its 3 o'clock position to 9 o'clock (subject at 12:00). the light will still fall on the subject, and much less on the wall behind.

Get the subject a few steps further from he wall too. Play with lightly positions until you get the results you want. You could also block light from hitting the back wall with a v-flat or something else to shade the wall.
Click to expand...
Thank you. I never thought of pointing the softbox from its 3 o'clock position to 9 o'clock. I will try that tomorrow afternoon.

Thanks for the v-flat recommendation too. How would you position the v-flat relative to the subject and the softbox? I assume that the v-flat will be positioned directly behind the subject, such that the walls of the v-flat are on each side of the subject. Also, wouldnt using a v-flat cause the black/white material of the v-flat to be exposed? Lastly, is there a v-flat you can recommend for purchase.

Thanks.
 
Last edited:
tetsusaiga said:
Don89 said:
Yes. Like he said. Just experiment a bit.

If subject is straight I front of you, place the softbox maybe one foot ahead of subject pointing directly across the subject. Basically point the softbox from its 3 o'clock position to 9 o'clock (subject at 12:00). the light will still fall on the subject, and much less on the wall behind.

Get the subject a few steps further from he wall too. Play with lightly positions until you get the results you want. You could also block light from hitting the back wall with a v-flat or something else to shade the wall.
Click to expand...
Thank you. I never thought of pointing the softbox from its 3 o'clock position to 9 o'clock. I will try that tomorrow afternoon.

Thanks for the v-flat recommendation too. How would you position the v-flat relative to the subject and the softbox? I assume that the v-flat will be positioned directly behind the subject, such that the walls of the v-flat are on each side of the subject. Also, wouldnt using a v-flat cause the black/white material of the v-flat to be exposed? Lastly, is there a v-flat you can recommend for purchase.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
You can use a v-flat in a lot of ways. I was suggesting one to shade the back wall from the light. It would be placed next to the softbox shading the wall. Not in the picture.

You can make one. Pretty much any size you like. Home Depot has what you. Need. You can paint one side white and the other a flat black. Taped together 4x8 sheets of foam insulation board. Whatever size you want.
 
This is a problem of light control. Light is reflecting off the walls, floor, and ceiling onto the background as well as from the softbox itself.

The usual subject to background distance is about 6 feet. Increasing this distance will decrease the amount of stray light that hits the background.

Using a grid on the softbox will limit the amount of light that goes from the front face of the softbox to the floor, ceiling, and background. The light will still go past the subject to the wall opposite the light. To stop that light you place a large piece of black fabric on the wall. This combination is generally all that is needed.

If you don't have a grid for the softbox then place black fabric on the wall opposite the light and on the floor. Use clips or clothespins to attach a hinged piece of black Coroplast to the top and the side of the softbox closest to the background, extending out far enough to visibly block the light from the softbox hitting the ceiling and background.

Feathering the light means rotating the light away from being aimed directly at the subject.

The lightest part of the image attracts the viewer's attention. Sometimes that can be the subject's ear. Feathering the light in a horizontal plane toward the camera until you just see the ear starting to darken is a good way to control this problem. It will also send a bit more light to the far side of the subject, lightening the shadows.

In a standing portrait I want the viewer's attention on the face, not their feet, or the feet may be too dark. Feathering the light vertically is how you control this.
 
... have a modeling light?

If it does have a modeling light, when you turn it on, does it illuminate the wall?

If it does, figure out some way to block the light from hitting the wall. For instance, a big piece of cardboard sitting on top of a chair, off to the side of the light, might accomplish this.

The farther the light is from the wall, the darker the wall will be.

If the light on the wall comes from the flash, changing the shutter speed won't accomplish anything.

If there's a modeling light, turn it off before shooting.

BAK
 
tetsusaiga said:
dinoSnake said:
I just attempted, and accomplished, the very same thing this week. The problem is the size of the room, of which I share, so small that even typical procedures won't work. So the secret is feather the light, turn it obliquely in relation to the subject, then add a grid to further limit light spill. Finally, a reflector opposing the feathered softbox, on the other side of the subject, fills the hard shadows created by the oblique placement. Adjust individual placement of objects, and exposure factors, to taste.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply. Can you explain what you mean by feather the light and turn it obliquely in relations to the subject. Also, how did your pictures come out?

I'm not sure that the problem is the size of the room. I believe the problem is the octabox/softbox is too big. The size of the octabox/softbox is causing the light to spill over to the background, while a small off-camera flash can focus the light more-or-less at a single spot. See for example this video:

But someone with more experience with lighting can maybe chime in and give this newb (me) some help.
Click to expand...
I'm also an (almost) complete studio lighting newbie, so I'm going to post my workflow and resulting images for you to see of this past week's test of my first lightbox, an Ezybox (clone) 60cm x 60cm, using a GN50 Olympus FL-50R flash with a Panasonic GX7 & Panasonic 12-35mm f/2.8.

The first setup was:

Setup of first shot. Dark gray trapezoid is Ezybox, sliver strip is a triangular hand-held collapsible reflector
Setup of first shot. Dark gray trapezoid is Ezybox, sliver strip is a triangular hand-held collapsible reflector

The wall is one wall of the living room, the only wall (inconveniently) with color, in this case a middle-deep gold. The subject was standing about 5 feet in front of the wall, the Ezybox are in all the following cases set up about 1 foot higher than eye-level (that is, where the flash is located) with the box angled down so that the mid-line of the box was targeted to the eyes.

And here is the result of this very first setup

First setup results
First setup results

Even though the Ezybox is only about 14 inches or so away from the subject, you can see that the background received a lot of light.

So, I went on to try Setup 2:

Setup 2 layout. Note the location an angle of the Ezybox, very oblique - this is called "feathering the light"
Setup 2 layout. Note the location an angle of the Ezybox, very oblique - this is called "feathering the light"

Setup 2 had the light more "feathered"; the light source is set to a greater side angle and directed so that the light creates a greater graduation between light and dark. I also stopped down more so as to create a greater fall off of the rear light hitting the background.

And here is the result of Setup 2:

Setup 2 result. Better, but still not the background I was hoping for
Setup 2 result. Better, but still not the background I was hoping for

So I then pulled out the hat trick - the grid. I made sure that I only bought softboxes with grids (I have 2 more, an Apollo-knockoff octabox and an Apollo-knockoff rectangular, on order) because, when working inside, I knew I only had small spaces at my (current) disposal and I might need the added falloff control.

So, Setup 3:

Gridded softbox and the reflector makes its return
Gridded softbox and the reflector makes its return

And the results?



BINGO!
BINGO!

Imagine if I would have used a black background to begin with!

And there you have it, my very first softbox exposure test. If I can accomplish it, using basic lighting theory and understanding, anyone can! :-)
 

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Nice demo! I tried a medium SB closer on-axis, no grid, and flagging failed to blacken a white b/g. Using the flag as the b/g was entirely effective, and is a flexible solution to all lighting schemes. Distance was one foot. The material should be nubby like a towel or, best of all, velvet. Large shooting spaces have the luxury of inverse-square law.

--
Canon, Nikon, Contax RTS, Leica M, Profoto
 
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Sailor Blue said:
This is a problem of light control. Light is reflecting off the walls, floor, and ceiling onto the background as well as from the softbox itself.

The usual subject to background distance is about 6 feet. Increasing this distance will decrease the amount of stray light that hits the background.

Using a grid on the softbox will limit the amount of light that goes from the front face of the softbox to the floor, ceiling, and background. The light will still go past the subject to the wall opposite the light. To stop that light you place a large piece of black fabric on the wall. This combination is generally all that is needed.

If you don't have a grid for the softbox then place black fabric on the wall opposite the light and on the floor. Use clips or clothespins to attach a hinged piece of black Coroplast to the top and the side of the softbox closest to the background, extending out far enough to visibly block the light from the softbox hitting the ceiling and background.

Feathering the light means rotating the light away from being aimed directly at the subject.

The lightest part of the image attracts the viewer's attention. Sometimes that can be the subject's ear. Feathering the light in a horizontal plane toward the camera until you just see the ear starting to darken is a good way to control this problem. It will also send a bit more light to the far side of the subject, lightening the shadows.

In a standing portrait I want the viewer's attention on the face, not their feet, or the feet may be too dark. Feathering the light vertically is how you control this.
Click to expand...
 
BAK said:
... have a modeling light?

If it does have a modeling light, when you turn it on, does it illuminate the wall?

If it does, figure out some way to block the light from hitting the wall. For instance, a big piece of cardboard sitting on top of a chair, off to the side of the light, might accomplish this.

The farther the light is from the wall, the darker the wall will be.

If the light on the wall comes from the flash, changing the shutter speed won't accomplish anything.

If there's a modeling light, turn it off before shooting.

BAK
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply. The strobe does have a modeling light and it does illuminate the wall behind the subject. I will try to see if i can find something cheap to put on the side of the strobe to block the light.
 
DinoSnake, thanks for sharing your results. It was very helpful. Unfortunately, I do not believe the manufacturer of my 47'' octabox/softbox makes a 47'' grid.
 
"I understand that if I want a black background, I should use a black backdrop to cover the wall. But my goal is to get a black background without using a black backdrop, like in the youtube video in my initial post."

Did ypu notice that he was shooting outdoors? He was making the background very dark byshooting at a high enough shutterspeed that the ambient daylight was not registering.

you are working in a small room with light colored walls. The light is trapped in the room. The only solutions are : use a dark material for the background and reduce the amount of light reaching the background OR find a larger interior space to experiment in OR do what the guy who shot that video did and shoot outside under subdued light.
 
tetsusaiga said:
DinoSnake, thanks for sharing your results. It was very helpful. Unfortunately, I do not believe the manufacturer of my 47'' octabox/softbox makes a 47'' grid.
Click to expand...
Oh, don't worry! We, also, share this same issue: I purchased a 47" (120cm) octabox as well. So I've already done this research ;-)

Loading…

www.ebay.com

Loading…

www.ebay.com
 
Rico Tudor said:
Nice demo! I tried a medium SB closer on-axis, no grid, and flagging failed to blacken a white b/g. Using the flag as the b/g was entirely effective, and is a flexible solution to all lighting schemes. Distance was one foot. The material should be nubby like a towel or, best of all, velvet. Large shooting spaces have the luxury of inverse-square law.
Click to expand...
Thank you! :-)

Even with flagging the background needs to be a certain minimum distance away, plus you must feather that light source away from it. Flagging is effective to reduce the stray light but, unless you have a huge flag, cannot eliminate all stray light. You must start with controlled light strike then you can eliminate the residual with the flag.
 
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dinoSnake said:
tetsusaiga said:
DinoSnake, thanks for sharing your results. It was very helpful. Unfortunately, I do not believe the manufacturer of my 47'' octabox/softbox makes a 47'' grid.
Click to expand...
Oh, don't worry! We, also, share this same issue: I purchased a 47" (120cm) octabox as well. So I've already done this research ;-)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291521051736

http://www.ebay.com/itm/201458121066
Click to expand...
Thanks again. Lol, unfortunately my octabox has 16-spokes, and not the usual 8-spokes.
 
tetsusaiga said:
dinoSnake said:
tetsusaiga said:
DinoSnake, thanks for sharing your results. It was very helpful. Unfortunately, I do not believe the manufacturer of my 47'' octabox/softbox makes a 47'' grid.
Click to expand...
Oh, don't worry! We, also, share this same issue: I purchased a 47" (120cm) octabox as well. So I've already done this research ;-)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291521051736

http://www.ebay.com/itm/201458121066
Click to expand...
Thanks again. Lol, unfortunately my octabox has 16-spokes, and not the usual 8-spokes.
Click to expand...

Loading…

www.ebay.com
 
dinoSnake said:
tetsusaiga said:
dinoSnake said:
tetsusaiga said:
DinoSnake, thanks for sharing your results. It was very helpful. Unfortunately, I do not believe the manufacturer of my 47'' octabox/softbox makes a 47'' grid.
Click to expand...
Oh, don't worry! We, also, share this same issue: I purchased a 47" (120cm) octabox as well. So I've already done this research ;-)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291521051736

http://www.ebay.com/itm/201458121066
Click to expand...
Thanks again. Lol, unfortunately my octabox has 16-spokes, and not the usual 8-spokes.
Click to expand...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/222098534512
Click to expand...
Oh you are the man DinoSnake. Thanks for the help and links. I will get this grid and try to see if I can replicate your experiment. Hopefully there is a way I can attach the grid to my parabolic softbox.
 
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