UPDATE: 10D, class reunion, upset pro

Mitch Conner

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My original post from last week is below. The pro came off as kind of a jerk but not any more so than other blue collar, small businesspeople I come into contact with. He basically took over the financial arrangements from the reunion committee so it was left to him to argue with the hotel over how many people showed up. A small increase in this number could turn a profit into a loss, I'm sure.

I saw him take just one handheld photo the whole evening. He spent hours on the couples portraits and the group photo. Obviously, that's where the money is. I was able to take multiple shots of every table with no conflict at all since he was in a different room. While setting up the group shot, both he and his assistant both barked at me "NO FLASH PHOTOS!" at different times. I'm sure he would have preferred that I had taken no shots at all. Somebody has already taken the time to paste captions with eveybody's names in small letters on the jpg I emailed out. That's helpful, and to me, more valuable than the pro's shot, which I'm sure will look better than mine. But I'll never know since I probably won't see the pro's shots.

I took about 350 flash shots at a different event using a Lumiquest Promax with diffuser. The Promax is a pain but does much better than a simple Omnibounce, IMO. This was a fundraiser and I'm not a pro so I didn't charge for my "work". I can understand how this might "degrade the image market" but this was kind of a last-minute thing. To me, pros who threaten to sue at the drop of the hat or demand $250 for banal snapshots (ala the Nasdaq thread of 10 days ago) might also "degrade" the image market. Particularly since the shots of the nationally known celebrities will be printed in black and white, it seems to me that basically equivalent results could have been obtained with a non-SLR camera. I have very little experience taking flash photos so maybe there are nuances that I'm missing.

"Will the pro at my class reunion be mad if I show up with a 10D, grip 550EX and Lumiquest? Obviously, I'm not going to sell the photos but maybe he's worried that I'd give them away and lower his sales? Or maybe I'd confuse the subjects and make them "camera weary"? Should I wait until he's finished or just use bright lenses without the flash? Or maybe just forget about it? Trying not to be a jerk here.

I get red-eye with my Stefen Omnibounce sometimes. My recently purchased pocket bouncer should eliminate this problem, right?

Is there a going rate for somebody to show up at a party with a DSLR and take a hundred or so shots for a couple of hours? Is $200 a reasonable shooting fee? Is that in range?

Thanks!"
 
Sounds like they were worried about you setting off their strobes?
While setting up the group shot, both he and his assistant
both barked at me "NO FLASH PHOTOS!" at different times
--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers
 
Sounds like they were worried about you setting off their strobes?
Didn't have my speedlite on or internal flash up but I was in the shadows so maybe it was hard to tell. Didn't use a focus assist light either so nobody paid attention to me until I got yelled at.

Plans are afoot to massively copy his CD and scan in and reproduce his group photo. Maybe those are the people he should yell at.
 
Arrgh. No respect.
Plans are afoot to massively copy his CD and scan in and reproduce
his group photo. Maybe those are the people he should yell at.
--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers
 
Interesting thread,

The only class reunion that I have gone to, every third person had a camera, flashes were oging off constantly, the "Pro" was set up in another room for optional portraits (for a nominal fee, 25$ I think...)

If someone were to yell at me at MY class reunion..I'd show him where he could stuff his camera.
 
My original post from last week is below. The pro came off as kind
of a jerk but not any more so than other blue collar, small
businesspeople I come into contact with.
Well, if you talk to taxi drivers or restaurant owners you'll get a similar attitude. They are quick to yell at anything which could possibly hurt their income, which is fair enough.

I wasn't the only person who raised his ire. If he weren't doing this to make money, I'm sure he'd come off a lot better. If he came off better, I'm sure he'd get more sales.
 
It does sound like he was a bit stressed; but to me the most interesting point in your post is when you refer to photographers as 'blue collar' - equating the camera with a wrech or hammer, a tool with which to smash out products.

I suppose that's how the industry is viewed these days, rather than as a creative endeavour, or (dare I say it) art form unto itself...
My original post from last week is below. The pro came off as kind
of a jerk but not any more so than other blue collar, small
businesspeople I come into contact with.
--
Robert Catto, Photographer
Wellington, New Zealand
http://www.catto.co.nz
 
I had exactly the opposite experience at a wedding where the pro offered his advice and assistance several times during the ceromony and reception. He commented on the DSLR I was using saying he owned two, but used film exculsively a weddings. At one point I got in his way (didn't mean to) and he told me to go first.
My original post from last week is below. The pro came off as kind
of a jerk but not any more so than other blue collar, small
--
Tim Bessell
 
I am taking photographs for over 15 years with SLRs now but, in my eyes pros do deliver better shots than I do - I still am improving my now-how in lighting and using my equipment.
so I am not a real problem for a pro - if they are good enough.

In addition if your pro made good photos, maybe you think of him at the next wedding ("I know a good AND friendly photograph")
My original post from last week is below. The pro came off as kind
of a jerk but not any more so than other blue collar, small
--
Tim Bessell
 
so a photographers tool (a camera) is a special tool but anyone can use a chisel ?

This goes for almost all professions. In order to do a good job you need to know what you are doing. Whether it is a photographer, car mechanic, typist, cleaning personal, cook, waiter, ...

And in all professions there are people that do good jobs and then there are generally at least twice as many that do a lousy job.

--
Michael Salzlechner
StarZen Digital Imaging
http://www.starzen.com/imaging

photos at http://www.salzlechner.com/photo
 
I have been reading these wedding and event threads and chuckling to myself. Now I read this reponse and I am reminded of how a real pro works. I was at a friends wedding and the pro (he was actually a serious commercial photographer, his clients included internationally known companies, he did not usually do weddings but since he was the brother of the best man he was doing this as a favor) anyway I was there with my first 35mm slr and flash--my flash kept messing up his light meter. I did not realize at the time what he was doing, after three or so times of me really getting in the way he looked at me and very nicely asked me to please not take anymore flash shots until he could get his reading. I apologized and did what he requested. He was such a nice guy that even though I was in the wedding party I helped him carry his equipment and we had a very informative and enjoyable conversation about photography. He even expressed interest in my equipment. Just goes to show that you can be patient and kinds and still get your job done.
 
..........you buy a good consumer cam with a fancy flash and want to look pro like him and use all your new goodies but the guy is trying to make a living.

To me it sounds like you have a probem simply cause he expects some respect and consideration while he plies his craft.
John
My original post from last week is below. The pro came off as kind
of a jerk but not any more so than other blue collar, small
businesspeople I come into contact with. He basically took over the
financial arrangements from the reunion committee so it was left to
him to argue with the hotel over how many people showed up. A small
increase in this number could turn a profit into a loss, I'm sure.

I saw him take just one handheld photo the whole evening. He spent
hours on the couples portraits and the group photo. Obviously,
that's where the money is. I was able to take multiple shots of
every table with no conflict at all since he was in a different
room. While setting up the group shot, both he and his assistant
both barked at me "NO FLASH PHOTOS!" at different times. I'm sure
he would have preferred that I had taken no shots at all. Somebody
has already taken the time to paste captions with eveybody's names
in small letters on the jpg I emailed out. That's helpful, and to
me, more valuable than the pro's shot, which I'm sure will look
better than mine. But I'll never know since I probably won't see
the pro's shots.

I took about 350 flash shots at a different event using a Lumiquest
Promax with diffuser. The Promax is a pain but does much better
than a simple Omnibounce, IMO. This was a fundraiser and I'm not a
pro so I didn't charge for my "work". I can understand how this
might "degrade the image market" but this was kind of a last-minute
thing. To me, pros who threaten to sue at the drop of the hat or
demand $250 for banal snapshots (ala the Nasdaq thread of 10 days
ago) might also "degrade" the image market. Particularly since the
shots of the nationally known celebrities will be printed in black
and white, it seems to me that basically equivalent results could
have been obtained with a non-SLR camera. I have very little
experience taking flash photos so maybe there are nuances that I'm
missing.

"Will the pro at my class reunion be mad if I show up with a 10D,
grip 550EX and Lumiquest? Obviously, I'm not going to sell the
photos but maybe he's worried that I'd give them away and lower his
sales? Or maybe I'd confuse the subjects and make them "camera
weary"? Should I wait until he's finished or just use bright lenses
without the flash? Or maybe just forget about it? Trying not to be
a jerk here.

I get red-eye with my Stefen Omnibounce sometimes. My recently
purchased pocket bouncer should eliminate this problem, right?

Is there a going rate for somebody to show up at a party with a
DSLR and take a hundred or so shots for a couple of hours? Is $200
a reasonable shooting fee? Is that in range?

Thanks!"
 
that I think that the Lumiquest products do a better job then the StoFen is when there is either a VERY tall ceiling or virtually NO ceiling to work with. Otherwise (in 90% of the cases I shoot) I much prefer the very nicely diffused and even results I get with my Stofen on a 550EX thank you.

--

Body: 1D and Powershot A70 (for fun).Lenses: Canon 16-35 2.8L, 24-70 2.8L, 70-200 2.8L IS, 100-400L, Sigma 180mm EX Macro, 1.4xII and 2.0xII teleconverters, 2 550EX Flashes, with ST-E2 remote, Gossen Starlight Lightmeter, LowePro PhotoTrekker AW and Toploader Zoom AW bags and Tamrac 757 shoulder/backpack. Singh-Ray GND filters, Gitzo 2227CF Explorer Tripod, Gitzo 1588 Monopod. Assorted extras......
 
I also had a ver great experience with working with another professional photographer at my sister's wedding last summer.

My sister and BIL told the photographer well in advance that I would be taking pictures as well. Of course, flash lighting was something they were concerned about so I didn't use any on my camera. I completely stayed out of their way using my long telephoto lens so I was pretty lucky there was enough natural lighting inside the chapel.

The photographer was the nicest I've ever met and she never felt threatened when I took pictures.

I gave my sister and BIL all the copies I produced, and they also bought all the photos the pro took. None of them were alike; the pro's photos were formal and had better quality, while my photos captured extreme close ups of their wedding ceremony.

Tim C.
I had exactly the opposite experience at a wedding where the pro
offered his advice and assistance several times during the ceromony
and reception. He commented on the DSLR I was using saying he owned
two, but used film exculsively a weddings. At one point I got in
his way (didn't mean to) and he told me to go first.
 
John

this is ridicolous. If he was professional (and i dont mean he is making a living, i am talking about acting professional) he would not have a problem with somebody owning a camera. The ones that do are generally the ones that know that their work is mediocre.

--
Michael Salzlechner
StarZen Digital Imaging
http://www.starzen.com/imaging

photos at http://www.salzlechner.com/photo
 
I was shooting a 50 year "Golden" Wedding Annivessary on Saturday. This was my 5th paid event.

At one point, someone came to the dance floor to take a shot of the folks dancing. I stopped them, and they appologised right away before I could continue. I suggested a better angle, so as to not get the food service line in the background. They thought I was upset, and were so thankful for the suggestion.

I've had a Pro do this for me before, so I gladly passed on the good will.
Attitude plays a big role in how we all get along.
My original post from last week is below. The pro came off as kind
of a jerk but not any more so than other blue collar, small
--
Tim Bessell
 

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