Oh no, I tried hybrid AF on the a99ii ...

tbcass · Nov 13, 2016

Marco Cinnirella said:
Tom you were a week or two ago jumping on any poster who said anything negative about Sony - this is now quite an about face on your part!

I know things now I didn't before. Previously people were blasting Sony about this issue based on speculation while I took a wait and see attitude. Now that appears that the speculations were correct I have something concrete to go by. Over the years I've been accused of being everything from a Sony fanboy to a Sony hater. I am neither.

--
Tom
Look at the picture, not the pixels
------------
Misuse of the ability to do 100% pixel peeping is the bane of digital photography.

Digital Bliss Photography · Nov 13, 2016

Let's not all forget. This camera surely has some firmware updates coming that will address many things and possibly update them. I'm almost certain this camera was slightly rushed to get it out ahead of some of their upcoming mirrorless stuff.

Just a thought.

tbcass · Nov 13, 2016

Maybe, just maybe if we all scream bloody murder they will do that but I'm not holding my breath. In the meantime I'll wait for the A77iii.

Dan Vincent · Nov 13, 2016

Karl Scharf said:
…AND THE 79 PDAF POINTS WORK WITH ALL LENSES!!!!

No, they don't. Some lenses can only use 61 AF points on the 79 point module bodies (a68, a77ii, a99ii). Here's a list!

500 AF Reflex (only center point available)
30mm f/2.8 Macro SAM
11-18 DT (all versions)
18-55 DT, SAM, and SAM II
55-200 DT, SAM
55-300 SAM
75-300 (All Minolta and Sony versions)
Minolta 28-100 F3.5-5.6 D
Minolta 28-85 original and RS
Minolta 28-135 (Secret Handshake)
Minolta 35-105 and RS
Minolta 24-50 f/4 original and RS
Minolta 100-200
Minolta 70-210 f/3.5-4.5 (all versions)
Minolta 80-200 f/4.5-5.6
Minolta 35-80 (all versions except PZ)
Minolta 35-80 PZ (Only wide or center point AF modes available, flexible spot unavailable)
Minolta 100-300 non-APO, APO, and APO D
Minolta 28-105 XI
Minolta 35-200 XI
Minolta 28-80 XI
Minolta 80-200 XI
Minolta 100-300 XI
Minolta 28-80 f/4-5.6 (all versions)
Minolta 28-105 f/3.5-4.5 (all versions)
Minolta 24-85 (all versions)
Minolta 35-70 RS (but the original seems to be in the clear!)
Minolta 100-400 APO
Minolta 20-35
Minolta 70-210 f/4-5.6 (all versions)

Also, no other full frame body except for the very expensive D5 has wider AF area coverage than the 79 point module, and even then it's only marginally so. If you want wider frame coverage, you'll have to stick with APS and its compromises.

steelhead3 · Nov 13, 2016

Invest in a Sony system instead of always going for the cheap and reap the rewards.

tbcass · Nov 13, 2016

Dan Vincent said:
No, they don't. Some lenses can only use 61 AF points on the 79 point module bodies (a68, a77ii, a99ii).

There's little difference in coverage between 61 and 79 AF points.

Dan Vincent said:
If you want wider frame coverage, you'll have to stick with APS and its compromises.

True and I am perfectly willing to put up with those insignificant to me compromises.

WPNL · Nov 13, 2016

steelhead3 said:
Invest in a Sony system instead of always going for the cheap and reap the rewards.

... Or complain if a second hand hand 25 year old lens isn't compatible?

Marco Cinnirella · Nov 13, 2016

WPNL said:
steelhead3 said:

Invest in a Sony system instead of always going for the cheap and reap the rewards.

Click to expand...

... Or complain if a second hand hand 25 year old lens isn't compatible?

latest sigmas and tamrons are not compatible with hybrid AF on a99ii so this whole 25 year old thing is bogus

WPNL · Nov 13, 2016

Marco Cinnirella said:
WPNL said:

steelhead3 said:

Invest in a Sony system instead of always going for the cheap and reap the rewards.

Click to expand...

... Or complain if a second hand hand 25 year old lens isn't compatible?

Click to expand...

latest sigmas and tamrons are not compatible with hybrid AF on a99ii so this whole 25 year old thing is bogus

steelhead3 · Nov 13, 2016

Sony's A mount is proprietary (unlike the E mount which is open) and the business model (for good or bad) is a closed system with 3rd party lenses (and Minolta) pirating on Sony. Canon and Nikon do the same thing. Many of their new cameras and lenses do not have full functionality on the old stuff.

Dan Vincent · Nov 13, 2016

tbcass said:
There's little difference in coverage between 61 and 79 AF points.

I know, I'm just pointing out that even the 79 point module has gotchas (and that may be true if any third party lens piggybacks off those IDs).

Third party lenses are always a roll of the dice on any mount. Still, I will probably continue using my Tamron 70-200 and even get a USD version because the 79 point AF is already a big jump compared to what I have on the a99 mark 1. Even then, making main module AF arrays wider is an increasingly difficult problem because the further away you get from the center of the lens, the harder it gets to determine focus from phase because of how light rays diverge and how phase detect AF works. It's easier to make APS coverage because there's less divergence overall even on APS coverage lenses. In that sense APS will always have a lead in coverage. OSPDAF enables wider coverage because of direct incidence (at the cost of smaller sensor sites).

I don't think it's Sony's responsibility to support third party lenses but it's always a bit of a game of cat-and-also-cat for third party lenses on all mounts. Maybe they'll figure out a way to make Hybrid work within the confines of the system. OSPDAF is still an immature tech compared to the 30+years of off-sensor PDAF. The movement between AF-D and what we have in Hybrid PDAF in four years is a pretty big advancement. Who knows where we'll be in another four years?

Douglas F Watt · Nov 13, 2016

Karl Scharf said:
Marco Cinnirella said:

...and now I'm hooked...

So I put my Sony 70-400 G1 on the a99ii today and the AF array magically grew with the activation of hybrid AF. The hybrid system has so many more points, they spread wider across the frame and the system is FAST. Now before you get excited, I haven't tested it on moving subjects yet, but even for static subjects the improvement is noticeable. My 70-400G1 was positively fast and snappy, something that it previously was not.

This is doubly annoying though, as I have some very nice third party and legacy glass that won't activate hybrid AF.

Damn, now I have seen what's possible with the a99ii hybrid AF I'm even more gutted it's not supported on my third party and legacy Minolta glass....

Click to expand...

Douglas F Watt · Nov 13, 2016

Dan Vincent said:
tbcass said:

There's little difference in coverage between 61 and 79 AF points.

Click to expand...

I know, I'm just pointing out that even the 79 point module has gotchas (and that may be true if any third party lens piggybacks off those IDs).

Third party lenses are always a roll of the dice on any mount. Still, I will probably continue using my Tamron 70-200 and even get a USD version because the 79 point AF is already a big jump compared to what I have on the a99 mark 1. Even then, making main module AF arrays wider is an increasingly difficult problem because the further away you get from the center of the lens, the harder it gets to determine focus from phase because of how light rays diverge and how phase detect AF works. It's easier to make APS coverage because there's less divergence overall even on APS coverage lenses. In that sense APS will always have a lead in coverage. OSPDAF enables wider coverage because of direct incidence (at the cost of smaller sensor sites).

I don't think it's Sony's responsibility to support third party lenses but it's always a bit of a game of cat-and-also-cat for third party lenses on all mounts. Maybe they'll figure out a way to make Hybrid work within the confines of the system. OSPDAF is still an immature tech compared to the 30+years of off-sensor PDAF. The movement between AF-D and what we have in Hybrid PDAF in four years is a pretty big advancement. Who knows where we'll be in another four years?

Karl Scharf · Nov 13, 2016

Douglas F Watt said:
Karl Scharf said:

Marco Cinnirella said:

...and now I'm hooked...

So I put my Sony 70-400 G1 on the a99ii today and the AF array magically grew with the activation of hybrid AF. The hybrid system has so many more points, they spread wider across the frame and the system is FAST. Now before you get excited, I haven't tested it on moving subjects yet, but even for static subjects the improvement is noticeable. My 70-400G1 was positively fast and snappy, something that it previously was not.

This is doubly annoying though, as I have some very nice third party and legacy glass that won't activate hybrid AF.

Damn, now I have seen what's possible with the a99ii hybrid AF I'm even more gutted it's not supported on my third party and legacy Minolta glass....

--
"When words become unclear, I shall focus with photographs. When images become inadequate, I shall be content with silence." Ansel Adams.

Click to expand...

With my extensive collection of non-Sony lenses, this definitely rules out the a99ii for me.

Thanks for the heads up, maybe Sony will fix this some time with firmware, if not, long live my a77ii.

--
...."Sony, your crap is so good"....love this quote!

Click to expand...

But at the very least Karl, you will have an improved version of the A77ii module, plus 4k and better 1080p, plus 18MP APS-C functionality, 42MP FF, HFR and slow and fast video, plus 3 stops better ISIS, plus 1.5 stops of ISO? That's almost 5 stops of potential improvement in IQ? What does the H-AF functionality mean to you that you would walk away from all those upgrades????

Puzzled, DW

--
Sony A99ii (pending)-A77ii-RX1-RX10III-RX100III
Sigma: 8-16 f4.5-5.6, 35 f1.4
Tamron 70-200 f2.8
Sony: 16-50 f2.8, 24 f2 CZ Distagon, 100 f2.8 Macro, 70-400 f4-5.6 G2,
Minolta: 600 f4, 70-210 f4 ('Beercan'), 28-135 f4-4.5 ('SH')
DFW

A very expensive upgrade it is! …..Since I don't do video and most of my shooting is jpeg in good light, it just is not worth it for me at this time to buy an a99ii.

My 3 Sigma lenses that I treasure very much work flawlessly with the a77ii, as well as my Rokinon 8mm fisheye. I will patiently wait for a new version of the a77ii with better IQ, and in the meantime enjoy what I have.

When the actual reviews of the a99ii become available, and I get the full picture of its capabilities and shortcomings, maybe then I will change my mind.

--
...."Sony, your crap is so good"....love this quote!

Douglas F Watt · Nov 13, 2016

Karl Scharf said:
Douglas F Watt said:

Karl Scharf said:

Marco Cinnirella said:

...and now I'm hooked...

So I put my Sony 70-400 G1 on the a99ii today and the AF array magically grew with the activation of hybrid AF. The hybrid system has so many more points, they spread wider across the frame and the system is FAST. Now before you get excited, I haven't tested it on moving subjects yet, but even for static subjects the improvement is noticeable. My 70-400G1 was positively fast and snappy, something that it previously was not.

This is doubly annoying though, as I have some very nice third party and legacy glass that won't activate hybrid AF.

Damn, now I have seen what's possible with the a99ii hybrid AF I'm even more gutted it's not supported on my third party and legacy Minolta glass....

--
"When words become unclear, I shall focus with photographs. When images become inadequate, I shall be content with silence." Ansel Adams.

Click to expand...

With my extensive collection of non-Sony lenses, this definitely rules out the a99ii for me.

Thanks for the heads up, maybe Sony will fix this some time with firmware, if not, long live my a77ii.

--
...."Sony, your crap is so good"....love this quote!

Click to expand...

But at the very least Karl, you will have an improved version of the A77ii module, plus 4k and better 1080p, plus 18MP APS-C functionality, 42MP FF, HFR and slow and fast video, plus 3 stops better ISIS, plus 1.5 stops of ISO? That's almost 5 stops of potential improvement in IQ? What does the H-AF functionality mean to you that you would walk away from all those upgrades????

Puzzled, DW

--
Sony A99ii (pending)-A77ii-RX1-RX10III-RX100III
Sigma: 8-16 f4.5-5.6, 35 f1.4
Tamron 70-200 f2.8
Sony: 16-50 f2.8, 24 f2 CZ Distagon, 100 f2.8 Macro, 70-400 f4-5.6 G2,
Minolta: 600 f4, 70-210 f4 ('Beercan'), 28-135 f4-4.5 ('SH')
DFW

Click to expand...

A very expensive upgrade it is! …..Since I don't do video and most of my shooting is jpeg in good light, it just is not worth it for me at this time to buy an a99ii.

My 3 Sigma lenses that I treasure very much work flawlessly with the a77ii, as well as my Rokinon 8mm fisheye. I will patiently wait for a new version of the a77ii with better IQ, and in the meantime enjoy what I have.

When the actual reviews of the a99ii become available, and I get the full picture of its capabilities and shortcomings, maybe then I will change my mind.

--
...."Sony, your crap is so good"....love this quote!

Well, that makes good sense then! I have a mix of new Sony, Zeiss and legacy glass, and want to see what I can do with all the IBIS and high ISO stops that the upgrade will give, and I am getting really into 4k, so for me, it's a no brainer.

--
Sony A99ii (pending)-A77ii-RX1-RX10III-RX100III
Sigma: 8-16 f4.5-5.6, 35 f1.4
Tamron 70-200 f2.8
Sony: 16-50 f2.8, 24 f2 CZ Distagon, 100 f2.8 Macro, 70-400 f4-5.6 G2,
Minolta: 600 f4, 70-210 f4 ('Beercan'), 28-135 f4-4.5 ('SH')
DFW

tbcass · Nov 13, 2016

steelhead3 said:
Invest in a Sony system instead of always going for the cheap and reap the rewards.

Only a fool pays double for something they can get for half the price that is just as good. I can live without on sensor PDAF. I want an A77iii because it will cost half what an A99ii does and it's off sensor PDAF coverage is much larger. All the A77iii needs are updated tracking algorithms and a more powerful processor over the A77ii.

Douglas F Watt · Nov 13, 2016

tbcass said:
steelhead3 said:

Invest in a Sony system instead of always going for the cheap and reap the rewards.

Click to expand...

Only a fool pays double for something they can get for half the price that is just as good. I can live without on sensor PDAF. I want an A77iii because it will cost half what an A99ii does and it's off sensor PDAF coverage is much larger. All the A77iii needs are updated tracking algorithms and a more powerful processor over the A77ii.

WPNL · Nov 13, 2016

I find it hard to believe APS-C is going to match FF's IQ, the A77-II's IQ doesn't compare to the A99's for instance but has faster AF indeed, so I like them both for different reasons ;-)

tbcass · Nov 14, 2016

WPNL said:
I find it hard to believe APS-C is going to match FF's IQ, the A77-II's IQ doesn't compare to the A99's for instance but has faster AF indeed, so I like them both for different reasons ;-)

I'm not saying that an A77iii IQ will match the A99ii. I'm saying that the difference won't be enough to matter to me. Heck, I think the IQ from my RX10iii is great!!! At first the 5 axis IBIS and advanced high speed processing of the A99ii peaked my interest but the announcement of the same tech on the A6500 made me want it in an SLT camera (I don't like the E Mount bodies and have no interest in buying one).

--
Tom
Look at the picture, not the pixels
------------
Misuse of the ability to do 100% pixel peeping is the bane of digital photography.

Dan Vincent · Nov 14, 2016

tbcass said:
WPNL said:

I find it hard to believe APS-C is going to match FF's IQ, the A77-II's IQ doesn't compare to the A99's for instance but has faster AF indeed, so I like them both for different reasons ;-)

Click to expand...

I'm not saying that an A77iii IQ will match the A99ii. I'm saying that the difference won't be enough to matter to me. Heck, I think the IQ from my RX10iii is great!!! At first the 5 axis IBIS and advanced high speed processing of the A99ii peaked my interest but the announcement of the same tech on the A6500 made me want it in an SLT camera (I don't like the E Mount bodies and have no interest in buying one).

For FPS/buffer nuts the a77iii will be a beast, assuming that the MP count doesn't go up too much. The a6500's baseline will only get better with more thermal dissipation in the body and bigger batteries to lean on.

Oh no, I tried hybrid AF on the a99ii ...

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