wchen
Active member
I bet there will be a F939 announced in 2004 either summer or fall, which will have 10M pixle, and 28mm-280mm lens. IMO, Sony should go DSLR. There is no way a 7x lens is good all through the range.
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Sony DSC-f939
- Thread starter wchen
- Start date
You'd be surprised at how easy a good zoom lens can be made when the imaging circle is only 6% of 35mm full frame. OTOH, Sony is already selling the sensor for 4/3 system, so perhaps Sony will its own rendition of 4/3 camera some time in the future.
wchen
Active member
It's a thoughtful point.
My thought is it might be even harder to get accurate image on a small area. When you make smaller lens, you need more accurate tools. If Sony can make a great 28-200, why don't they make a 24-80 and a 80-240? Why it is still hard for Nikon 5700 and Sony f717 to go inside 35mm? Moreover, the distorsion is always hard to get rid of.
My thought is it might be even harder to get accurate image on a small area. When you make smaller lens, you need more accurate tools. If Sony can make a great 28-200, why don't they make a 24-80 and a 80-240? Why it is still hard for Nikon 5700 and Sony f717 to go inside 35mm? Moreover, the distorsion is always hard to get rid of.
Tigadee
Veteran Member
I'll bet it'll be an F848 next year - everything will be the same except for some refinements and a retro metallic grey-purple color.
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I have a front-mount fish-eye converter for my Dimage 7i. It is useable as that. However, the one time I tried it (its have 58mm adapter and all) on my 10D, the result was laughable; it was chromatic error from hell, no mount of Panotool could even fix it. If you look close though, the very center 10% or so of the image is okay even on the 10D.
Arvin Chang
Senior Member
I agree with wchen... I'm pretty sure it's harder to make a smaller lens that can better image on a smaller area. The offsetting factor is that smaller CCDs aren't capable of picking up the difference in sharpness anyway.
Back to the point, I agree that Sony is trading off image quality in order to have a 7x lenses... however they made that choice because the 828 is a prosumer and you can't change lenses. The other options are
1. One digital camera, either 28-80 or 80-200. (More quality, limited zoom)
2. Two digital cameras, one with 28-80, one with 80-200 (More quality, more expensive, more stuff to carry)
3. One SLR with 2 lenses (more quality, MOST expensive, more to carry)
I don't really think Sony ought to make an SLR. As an electronics company (well the Sony Electronics division at leasT), it's not their strength (neither is making SLR quality lenses).
--Arvin
Back to the point, I agree that Sony is trading off image quality in order to have a 7x lenses... however they made that choice because the 828 is a prosumer and you can't change lenses. The other options are
1. One digital camera, either 28-80 or 80-200. (More quality, limited zoom)
2. Two digital cameras, one with 28-80, one with 80-200 (More quality, more expensive, more stuff to carry)
3. One SLR with 2 lenses (more quality, MOST expensive, more to carry)
I don't really think Sony ought to make an SLR. As an electronics company (well the Sony Electronics division at leasT), it's not their strength (neither is making SLR quality lenses).
--Arvin
Greg Gebhardt
Forum Pro
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Sony is doing just fine with the non DSLR cameras. I hope they keep the R&D funds in what they are doing now. If you want a DSLR there are pleanty to pick from.
I have found that "having" is not near as good as "wanting". I take the 828 just as soon as I can get my hands on one.
Greg Gebhardt Nikon D1 & D1x. Sony 717, V1! , Epson 2200 & PS7
Jacksonville, Florida
And the basis of your certitude would be . . . ? 3meg/3x optical zoom digital cameras with aperture at f/2.0-2.5 are common place for the last couple years, selling for about $300 nowadays including the camera itself. I'm not aware of any 3x zoom with aperture in the f/2.0-2.5 for the 35mm format, at any price point. I'm sure the pros would love such a product. In fact, only a couple weeks ago I paid $1300+ for a 24-70 f/2.8 lens for 35mm format; that is slightly less than 3x zoom and half a stop slower than f/2.0-2.5. Now if you want to enlarge your imaging circle size to medium format, the cost (implied difficulty of manufacturing) would be even greater.
The pixel pitch of the smaller CCD's are actually more tightly spaced than ththat of the larger sensors on DSLR's. So tight that noise becomes an issue.
4. lens mount standard acceptability would be a marketting nightmare
5. people who want more zoom range can buy the Sony brand adaptor lenses. That seems to be more acceptable for small cameras than having the zoom range divided right in the middle with a two-lens setup.
Sony SLR probably will show up some day, probably with as a 4/3 system. Sony has outsourced lenses to Kyocera ("Carl Zeiss"), so that is taken care of.
wchen
Active member
The number of pixels will be growing, while the optical technology is about there. I don't think you can get better photo form Nikon F5 than from F4. From a comsumer's point of view, I hope I can use my 717 lens on my new 828.
Carl Zeiss lens + Sony electrical tech is the greatest combination in the history of photography. Why can't they make professional cameras?
Carl Zeiss lens + Sony electrical tech is the greatest combination in the history of photography. Why can't they make professional cameras?
Greg Gebhardt
Forum Pro
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why should they. The other mFGs have done it plenty. They also have their own lenses. SOny would have to make the DSLR body and expect everyone to buy their lenses also. I think Sony is going to leave the DSLR making to the others and clean up on the non-DSLR end.
Greg Gebhardt Nikon D1 & D1x. Sony 717, V1! , Epson 2200 & PS7
Jacksonville, Florida
The 717 is the greatest camera in the history of photography?
Franklin
Senior Member
Greg,
I see you already have better camera like D1x and more portable camera like V1. Why are you so excited about 828, the urge of owning the latest toy or actual advantage of 828 over what you have?
I am just curious. Don't get me wrong. I think 828 is a great upgrade of 7x7s.
Thanks
I see you already have better camera like D1x and more portable camera like V1. Why are you so excited about 828, the urge of owning the latest toy or actual advantage of 828 over what you have?
I am just curious. Don't get me wrong. I think 828 is a great upgrade of 7x7s.
Thanks
David A Melges
Senior Member
....even at 8 I'm likely to reduce my files to maybe 5 or 6 to smooth out noise and still get great huge prints.
Adding more pixels eventually just means bigger files
I hope they concentrate on making the pixels better over the next two years, and in 2005 announce a 929 that has
8 milliion INCREDIBLE pixels
5 fps
A 400,000 pixels EVF with lightning refresh
Virtually non existent lag
And a 28 to 230mm zoom
...Also a CZ 2x attachment would be nice.
dave
Amazing what we can do with just three crayons, red green and blue!
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Adding more pixels eventually just means bigger files
I hope they concentrate on making the pixels better over the next two years, and in 2005 announce a 929 that has
8 milliion INCREDIBLE pixels
5 fps
A 400,000 pixels EVF with lightning refresh
Virtually non existent lag
And a 28 to 230mm zoom
...Also a CZ 2x attachment would be nice.
dave
--
Amazing what we can do with just three crayons, red green and blue!
http://yourbattlecreek.com/dave/
digital_ray_of_light
Veteran Member
I'm not sure if I am reading this right, but are you saying that Sony is selling a sensor for the 4/3rd system?
Tigadee
Veteran Member
How do you choose which one to use?
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As far as I know, Sony is the supplier of the sensors for the Olympus 4/3 system.
Bernie Ess
Veteran Member
Oh, you present this as a fact, however so far it s only an assumption. You think they are trading off quality. It is possible, but wh not just wait? Minolta had a 7x Zoom lens on the D7 since 3 years. So....
Bernie
Bernie Ess
Veteran Member
Exactly, thats true, the small sensor size has a big advantage here, I recently switched to DSLR from the 717, and not only those lenses for 35mm are bigger and heavier and more expensive, its also difficult to get them as sharp as the small digital lenses that are at 20% the weight (or you pay - as you did - premium prices for the pro lenses. Most affordable lenses that are even 5x Zoom like the Tamron 24-135 while having at least acceptable quality are way slower (3,5-5,6) and not as sharp as lets say my old Canon G1 lens who was tack sharp.
Size can therefore mean tradeoff as well - of convenience, affordability and eventually even quality - at least for the lens.
Bottom line: I might become seriously tempted to get the 828 when its available - as a smaller "all-in-one - packet" - if the quality is right....
regards Bernie
Ed Mikolon
Member
digital_ray_of_light
Veteran Member
Hmm.... The E-1 is using a 5mp Kodak CCD. Check Phil's preview or News...
Are you talking about a future Sony sensor for 4/3rds? Or did you mean Kodak?
Are you talking about a future Sony sensor for 4/3rds? Or did you mean Kodak?
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