NX1 vs Oly EM1 mkii

There, I just saved flip21 the trouble of making this thread.

I've always like the handling and feel of the EM1 but seriously, USD$2000 is silly money for a M4/3 camera imo, despite some pretty cool features. Although it has to be said that I can't see myself using most of those features.

I hope the GH5 doesn't follow suit for the sake of everyone.

People seem to be obsessed over sensorsize on these fora. And cherrypick their way to the truth.

D500 is used as a comparison many times for instance. And then EM1.2 is to expensive. Well. With the K1 costing 200 dollars less than D500 how does it compare now? And indeed not so long ago, the D500 was demonised by some for its price being close to D750 which of course now needs to be seen as a poor choice with the same K1 on the market.

What I get from Em1.2 now is that it is an excellent cam. It seems to do everything really really good. How good? We have no RAWs, so final IQ is unknown.

Interestingly when it comes to IQ, many reviewers have not tested HiRes but one gave it half a try and noted it was much better than EM5mkII. One however tried streams, people walking in the frame during HiRes and the results were very good. No more artifacts, the streams looked either crisp or had the long exposure blur and people in it were exactly the same (just a long exposure blur)..

Now that is promissing a lot for anyone shooting landscapes, architecture etc. HiRes IQ is between the best FF and 645Z MEdium format....For that you get it for a very good price...And you do not pay the penalty of large lenses and a huge weight.

I think we need proper reviews with a good RAW analyses to see how it does..

EM1-ii is a very good camera, possibly the best m43 to date, but I also don't see a reason for spending that crazy sum on a m43 camera, when it would not give me a real upgrade over NX1.

I don't care about stacking (I shoot mainly moving subjects) nor about IBIS (I use lenses with OIS).

NX1 has a more advanced codec and with the hack and 180mbit has surely more video quality, considering that it downsamples from 6k.

For stills, again not caring about stacking, the NX1 has for sure a superior sensor.

If the Oly costed less than one half and the same applied to lenses, I could consider it as a B camera, but...no way at this crazy crazy price.

p.s.: for me also the D500 has a crazy price, btw.

tecnoworld said:

EM1-ii is a very good camera, possibly the best m43 to date, but I also don't see a reason for spending that crazy sum on a m43 camera, when it would not give me a real upgrade over NX1.

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Depends on what you do with it...

4K video with that IBIS seems to be a very serious step up and you will note this on vieoforums for sure.

tecnoworld said:

I don't care about stacking (I shoot mainly moving subjects) nor about IBIS (I use lenses with OIS).

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Fine but this IBIS let's you shoot sharp images with 5s exposures...No OIS only system I know of comes even remotely close.

tecnoworld said:

NX1 has a more advanced codec and with the hack and 180mbit has surely more video quality, considering that it downsamples from 6k.

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237 mbit I think on Oly? A hack...is it supported and how about warranty? Is it reliable?

tecnoworld said:

For stills, again not caring about stacking, the NX1 has for sure a superior sensor.

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For sure, but HiRes now seems to work much much better. And this for sure gets you much better IQ than NX1 does. So it is not singlesided. HiRes means MUCH better colours (better even than 645Z according to dpreview in the Em5II review), much better noise (3 tops better, better than even FF) and thus better dynamic range....

tecnoworld said:

If the Oly costed less than one half and the same applied to lenses, I could consider it as a B camera, but...no way at this crazy crazy price.

p.s.: for me also the D500 has a crazy price, btw.

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I think the oly is worth a lot more than half the price. People are so anal when it comes to sensors. It seems you forget you are buying a cam, you discount all other things just like that...From what we can see this is one hack of a cam and it does not seem to be worse other than sensor IQ than the D500. And it has quite a few things in it that are a lot better than D500, NX1, A6500, D750 etcetc.

The fact that you do not use it, makes it no viable to you but it does not mean that it therefor should cost less. These options are still there for others to use.

yup, but I agree! If you shoot panoramas or still subjects, the new oly is very, VERY good.

I usually shoot with a shutter of 1/160 and up. Hence I'd loose mainly all the features of stacking AND ibis. And for those images, I'm sure NX1 can do a better job at any ISO.

For video, possibly ibis is a step-up, but for the videos I take, OIS+DIS are really good. And the fact that NX1 downsamples from 6k is a huge bonus for sharpness and details.

It's worth that price for me (I mean at most half of the asking price), since I wouldn't use most of its advanced niche features.

Few things :

1. This is a gear forum on a gear site. Deal with it.
2. Oly have only themselves to blame. They have given people crumbs of information and let them get carried away in speculation. They did nothing to lower the expectations. Now people complain they don't have 60fps with CAF and deep buffer nobody actually promised them.
3. No amount of OIS, IBIS, DIS will replace even the simplest stabilizer of any kind. Try normal walking while recording and see for yourself.
4. 180Mbps h265 > 237Mbps h264.
5. The camera is not even shipping/finalized. Any harsh criticism and any glowing praise are equally unfounded.

That said, this will surely be an excellent camera. As will GH5. As is NX1. And a6000/6300/6500, D500, D5, 1DXII, A7R2, A7S2, XT2, ...

otto k said:

Few things :

1. This is a gear forum on a gear site. Deal with it.
2. Oly have only themselves to blame. They have given people crumbs of information and let them get carried away in speculation. They did nothing to lower the expectations. Now people complain they don't have 60fps with CAF and deep buffer nobody actually promised them.
3. No amount of OIS, IBIS, DIS will replace even the simplest stabilizer of any kind. Try normal walking while recording and see for yourself.
4. 180Mbps h265 > 237Mbps h264.
5. The camera is not even shipping/finalized. Any harsh criticism and any glowing praise are equally unfounded.

That said, this will surely be an excellent camera. As will GH5. As is NX1. And a6000/6300/6500, D500, D5, 1DXII, A7R2, A7S2, XT2, ...

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1. ?
2. ? Show me one thread where people are complaining about that.
3. Wise up.
4. Did you actually ever work with video? Bitrates are just a part of the equation.
5. Precisely.

I have little doubt about it being excellent. People simply do not want to pay the price (some over there).

However, E-M1 costed 1500 euro's from the start. It did not have many features it has gotten in FW updates. It does not have that IBIS (5 second shots handheld and sharp!),

It is so poor in video it makes you cry but the footage would not show us you were, it seems to be clearly worse in sportshooting (while it is still pretty good at it though), it has no HiRes mode that gets you such fantastic IQ (read on it). Its batterylife is much shorter.

Yet people think it should cost 1500 euro/dollars...That is what they whine about. SOme state: way to expensive for slight imrpovements...Well: would it make sense to even pay 1000 dollars for "slight imrpovements"? No. The truth is: these are not slight improvements even to them, this is what they want but cannot afford or feel they should pay for it.

I had a quick touch with preprod E-M1 II yesterday and in the beginning I felt it like an armoured NX30. But it's a different camera - it seems to be fast, tough and have much bigger battery than E-M1. The price is just not OK for me - that's about the cost of my NX30 + NX500 + 4-5 good lenses.

Two years ago at Photokina 2014 when I saw the NX1, I was intrigued, watched the ensuing commentaries and reviews, and then felt well justified in spending about $4k US to obtain my present kit (NX1 w/16-50 S & grip, 50-150 S, 60 macro, extra batteries, etc.). Despite Samsung's apparent rejection of its customers, I still think it was a great purchase due to the kit's capabilities and the excellent results shown in its images.

But I still need an updated long solution. Forward to this year's Photokina and I was just as intrigued by the Oly EM1-Mk II (and possibly the Pany GH5). Having already seen encouraging results from the Panny 100-400mm, I could see pairing that lens with either new camera for a relatively "compact" long solution (200-800mm FF equiv). There would not be any need for new wide to short telephoto lenses, since the NX1 already covers those beautifully. The 100-400 could be on the new camera all the time. Now the announced cost does come into mind, the EM1-Mk II & 100-400 Panny together with tax being about the same as my entire NX1 kit. But I also figure that if Samsung did release the 300mm f/2.8 S, Its cost could have very well been in the same ballpark. And I probably (based on reported results, of course) would have bought that lens. So I'm watching carefully the ensuing commentaries and reviews, and biding my time (and watching my budget) for the next few months. Something new and long will be in my future.

Barple said:

There, I just saved flip21 the trouble of making this thread.

I've always like the handling and feel of the EM1 but seriously, USD$2000 is silly money for a M4/3 camera imo, despite some pretty cool features. Although it has to be said that I can't see myself using most of those features.

I hope the GH5 doesn't follow suit for the sake of everyone.

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Finally there is someone that mention my name without insulting me, like Kisaha and others in this forum . I'm speachless... I think I'm gonna cry LOL

Now seriously. The price of the Em1 mkii is outrageous, for a micro 4/3 camera. The NX1 was much cheaper when it was released, and it is still the queen So forget it Olympus... you are not gonna see any euro from me, Flip21, the biggest troll around on the web

This leads me to conclude that Sony is giving use better options for the less price. The A6500 will be better and cheaper. And is a APSc camera... well, there is no Fully articulated screen But you can connect one via HDMI port, wich you couldn't with the NX1, in 4K, and it has slow mo capabilities...

I just hope things will be different with the GH5... otherwise I will wait, and wait, and wait, for the NX2, or for the Sony A7000... in the mean time I will buy the RX100 V I need a camera to shoot high fram rate video, and there is none like the RX100 at this price range, right, Kisaha?

Nice website and images, I really enjoyed viewing them, especially the Hudson Valley ones.

grcolts said:

Nice website and images, I really enjoyed viewing them, especially the Hudson Valley ones.

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Thanks Gary.

I like the way you present your images in your photo.net site. I enjoy applying artistic effects in post as well. I'll have to spend some time in your flickr site as the home page has some nice work on it. I just always seem to get lost navigating in flickr, but i'll try.

flip 21 said:

Barple said:

There, I just saved flip21 the trouble of making this thread.

I've always like the handling and feel of the EM1 but seriously, USD$2000 is silly money for a M4/3 camera imo, despite some pretty cool features. Although it has to be said that I can't see myself using most of those features.

I hope the GH5 doesn't follow suit for the sake of everyone.

Click to expand...

Finally there is someone that mention my name without insulting me, like Kisaha and others in this forum . I'm speachless... I think I'm gonna cry LOL

Now seriously. The price of the Em1 mkii is outrageous, for a micro 4/3 camera. The NX1 was much cheaper when it was released, and it is still the queen So forget it Olympus... you are not gonna see any euro from me, Flip21, the biggest troll around on the web

This leads me to conclude that Sony is giving use better options for the less price. The A6500 will be better and cheaper. And is a APSc camera... well, there is no Fully articulated screen But you can connect one via HDMI port, wich you couldn't with the NX1, in 4K, and it has slow mo capabilities...

I just hope things will be different with the GH5... otherwise I will wait, and wait, and wait, for the NX2, or for the Sony A7000... in the mean time I will buy the RX100 V I need a camera to shoot high fram rate video, and there is none like the RX100 at this price range, right, Kisaha?

Click to expand...

What about the rx100iv ? That also has the high frame rates, and will possibly come down in price now the V is released.

markyboy81 said:

flip 21 said:

Barple said:

There, I just saved flip21 the trouble of making this thread.

I've always like the handling and feel of the EM1 but seriously, USD$2000 is silly money for a M4/3 camera imo, despite some pretty cool features. Although it has to be said that I can't see myself using most of those features.

I hope the GH5 doesn't follow suit for the sake of everyone.

Click to expand...

Finally there is someone that mention my name without insulting me, like Kisaha and others in this forum . I'm speachless... I think I'm gonna cry LOL

Now seriously. The price of the Em1 mkii is outrageous, for a micro 4/3 camera. The NX1 was much cheaper when it was released, and it is still the queen So forget it Olympus... you are not gonna see any euro from me, Flip21, the biggest troll around on the web

This leads me to conclude that Sony is giving use better options for the less price. The A6500 will be better and cheaper. And is a APSc camera... well, there is no Fully articulated screen But you can connect one via HDMI port, wich you couldn't with the NX1, in 4K, and it has slow mo capabilities...

I just hope things will be different with the GH5... otherwise I will wait, and wait, and wait, for the NX2, or for the Sony A7000... in the mean time I will buy the RX100 V I need a camera to shoot high fram rate video, and there is none like the RX100 at this price range, right, Kisaha?

Click to expand...

What about the rx100iv ? That also has the high frame rates, and will possibly come down in price now the V is released.

Click to expand...

Do you think its price is going to drop? Someone tell me that the Sony A6300 price is not going to drop, because of the A6500...

Dropped 150 euro exactly a year after intro. Dropped another 150 euro last december so 1,5 yrs onwards...But it depends. If this really affects projected sales, they could lower it sooner. Sigma SD1 was a 10000 euro APS-c cam...It became a 2200 dollar one after a couple of months because of the price. I would not expect the Oly to become 450 euro anytime soon though......

Jorginho said:

1. ?

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Your opening sentence "People seem to be obsessed over sensorsize on these fora. " that's what people do on gear sites.

Jorginho said:

2. ? Show me one thread where people are complaining about that.

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Saw it in comments section either here or another review, I'll try to find it.

Jorginho said:

3. Wise up.

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B)

Jorginho said:

4. Did you actually ever work with video? Bitrates are just a part of the equation.

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You asked about it. Any way you cut it, video with older codec at slightly higher bitrate sampled from smaller number of pixels and smaller area will have a hard time being better. Not impossible, but not likely either.

Jorginho said:

5. Precisely.
I have little doubt about it being excellent. People simply do not want to pay the price (some over there).

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Do note that I made no mention of price in any context. I'm a firm believer in freedom to price your product any way you want, I don't find prices shocking, obscene, insulting, etc. I can find them out of my budget but that's personal opinion and nobody should care about that.

For me, there are two types of people, first will feel the advances justify the price increase, second will disagree. I agree with both groups as long as they don't force their own opinion on me.

But, as this thread will shortly degenerate into either equivalence debate or some similar silly contest, let's agree to disagree on some things and enjoy life.

Can't find it from phone, FWIW it was one of these related to Ming's review and that it had only 10fps with mechanical shutter and caf, and at the level of 5 year old canon dslr, yada yada.

Old age strikes again

VisionLight said:

Two years ago at Photokina 2014 when I saw the NX1, I was intrigued, watched the ensuing commentaries and reviews, and then felt well justified in spending about $4k US to obtain my present kit (NX1 w/16-50 S & grip, 50-150 S, 60 macro, extra batteries, etc.). Despite Samsung's apparent rejection of its customers, I still think it was a great purchase due to the kit's capabilities and the excellent results shown in its images.

But I still need an updated long solution. Forward to this year's Photokina and I was just as intrigued by the Oly EM1-Mk II (and possibly the Pany GH5). Having already seen encouraging results from the Panny 100-400mm, I could see pairing that lens with either new camera for a relatively "compact" long solution (200-800mm FF equiv). There would not be any need for new wide to short telephoto lenses, since the NX1 already covers those beautifully. The 100-400 could be on the new camera all the time. Now the announced cost does come into mind, the EM1-Mk II & 100-400 Panny together with tax being about the same as my entire NX1 kit. But I also figure that if Samsung did release the 300mm f/2.8 S, Its cost could have very well been in the same ballpark. And I probably (based on reported results, of course) would have bought that lens. So I'm watching carefully the ensuing commentaries and reviews, and biding my time (and watching my budget) for the next few months. Something new and long will be in my future.

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I know I'm going to upset someone... but sensor size does matter and particularly in conjunction with these long lenses like this.

Panny 100-400 is an f/4-f/6.3 on m4/3, aka 200-800 f/8-f/12.6

A Samsung 300 f/2.8 APS-C, aka around 450 f/4.2

For myself f/12.6 is only useful on the brightest of days (admittedly it could work for me here in Qatar but not many other places most of the time).

f/4.2 is pretty useful for me in any normal sort of daylight, up to 5.6 works for me there.

No matter at which point in that 200-800 the f-number shifts it will be at least f/8, not good for me.

Panny 100-400: Benefit, Small Size, Drawback, Long Shutter Speeds or Noise (take your pick)

Samsung 300: Size is biggish, but not all that bad, usable more often

Canon 400:

Variant 1 f/5.6 Kind of close to the Samsung 300, Bit longer, thinner, bit darker.

Variant 2 f/2.8 Benefit, only hitting f/5.6 WITH 2x adapter at 800mm Drawback size (it's freaking huge)

FF lenses on FF in above, placing them on APS-C results as expected, but Canon 1.6x

640mm f/8.96 for smaller lens, 640mm f/4.48 for larger or 1280mm f/8.96 with 2x adapter (still brighter than the Panny by 1280, but the price is the size... well and the price, but the price wasn't so bad used)

And the Panny benefit I've been ignoring: It's a zoom!

I rambled a bit, so what I'm saying is, it's a bit too noisy for my preferred way of shooting (at least 1/500 shutter speed, preferably 1/2000 or higher).

Too much sensor talk? Here's a photo for ya:




Sunset in Doha: A very rare one, doesn't usually look like this, traveler's: you will be disappointed

VisionLight said:

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Visit my VisionLight website:
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DPR readers' request: all website images presented by camera used:
http://edwardmichaellach.zenfolio.com/f585961546
Tutorials and Articles on Photography and Camera Reviews:
http://edwardmichaellach.zenfolio.com/blog
My current project - Teatown Lake Reservation:
http://edwardmichaellach.zenfolio.com/f266095218

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Gorgeous shot, very sensible points.

Like Marco said, all great points, and a beautiful image (I'm glad you were in the right place at the right time).

This will be a process for me as I consider those points in conjunction with the soon to be seen real world results from the EM1 Mk II/Panny 100-400 combo. And later on results from the GH5/100-400 combo. With winter soon on its way and the bald eagles hunting over the river, I'll probably be content to use my current (old) solutions for one more season (that give results like this , an uncropped image that was "a one shot grab" in under six seconds as the eagle turned and noticed us from 10m away.) For most other Winter subjects I don't need the long reach.

I also have another mirrorless track in mind (I'm really moving further and further away from OVFs) and that is the Canon M5 with the converter to use my long Canon L glass. Since I already have the glass, it will certainly be a much less expensive track. Again, soon to be seen real world results will weigh in to see if this is a realistic choice. Smaller camera body, bigger lens, not quite the reach, but more favorable relative apertures. The Canon M5 could just become the rear lens cap for the lens.

There's a lot to consider, so I'm glad I have the time to hopefully get it "right".