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D500 is causing a big problem for the used camera market!

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JMD-70 said:
athomasphoto said:
I agree with the others - this camera and its' price don't compete with any of the cameras you mentioned. I could see someone looking at something like a D3, D3s, D4, even D3x and asking themselves if they should just get a D500 w/ grip - especially considering it can use the D4 batteries AND has (overall) about a generation advance in overall feature-set. Maybe not IQ, but just a more modern overall feature-set. I will say, from what I've seen, that the D500 will probably beat all of those in AF performance (every category) and in that respect, those cameras will take a hit in the used market.

BUT you weren't talking about pro bodies. I'd say there's about a 2% chance the people looking to buy a used ~$600 D7100 would consider not only a different TYPE of camera, but also one which is 3-4x more expensive. No way.
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True!

However, what I was attempting to convey was,...it's not that someone looking for a D7100 would all of a sudden fork over funds to buy a used Pro body,...it's now perhaps the other way around,...where a Pro-body shooter will now consider buying a non-Pro body such as a D500,...or D750 over a used Pro body! And that, again, is my point.

Folks that would normally consider a pro body are going with D750/D7200/D500 class bodies! How do I know this,...because I left DX years ago,...only to be back with a DX body because of this #1 reason,..Features available at the price point!

Here's a question, would you buy a used D3x,...or a new (..or used) D750?

Hmm????
JMD-70 said:
Besides, I don't think the market is being hit either - I sold my D7200 cash-in-hand for $840 I think (right around there) a month or two after I picked up the D500 on launch day. Good price, and a quick sale.
I still think they're totally different customers though. Having said that, the D7200 is the ONLY recent camera Nikon's produced which even remotely competes between the D300 and D500. Nothing else is even really comparable.
I still recommend the D7200 to friends constantly - probably once a month someone asks me about a great sports camera for a decent value (non-pro budget) and considering the IQ out of the D7200 without post processing, I don't think you could beat it.

Even if a friend had the money for a D500, unless they weren't a pro I'd still suggest the D7200 first with a Tamron 70-200 2.8 (the Di is around $700, with a 6yr warranty!!) and they'd still have about $300 left over! You just have to know what you're doing and work a little harder to get the same IQ out of the D500, and most of my non-pro or enthusiast friends don't know how to do that yet.
There's still a VERY strong market for the enthusiast DX Nikon IMHO.
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BobWorrell said:
T O Shooter said:
I think you're wrong. A D500 with tax here in Toronto is $3050.00 There's a sale on right now at one dealer at $2700 out the door. Yet there's a D500 with 2000 shots, box and everything that came with it and original receipt and it's been sitting for 2 days at $2000 That's a $700 to $1000 saving for taking a camera with 2000 shots.

Here in Toronto I have a population base in the general area of 5 -6 million people. And lots of money here. Ranger Rovers are as common as Ford Explorers. But about 1.5 to 2 years ago it seemed like everyone stopped buying ( and selling ) used DSLR bodies and lenses. I paid for, or got free, a lot of my gear by buying packages of gear and splitting it up and selling it individually. One package gave me a free D7100, another a free 50 1.4G, another cost me about $300 to add a Nikkor 14-24 2.8 But that has all dried up. It takes forever to sell something and it seems like those that were moving on and up and getting rid of a package of gear are no more.

No sure if everyone went to smartphones, micro 4/3s, mirrorless or whatever, but the used DSLR market is just about dead here.

And a D500 is not going to get many people to give up a FF. Or an Iphone if you're on that end of the spectrum.
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Bmark said:
I did not say the D7100 was obsolete, but merely stated that all products eventually become obsolete. Personally, unless budget constrained, I would not buy a D7100 with the other choices that are available and as more and better choices become available less people are interested in a D7100. That is why you are selling right??
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My D70s is pretty much obsolete but my D300 is not even though D300 value has dropped to probably below $300.

I wanted a D7100 for awhile and have searched for them but they sell for $550 or more. Their value hasn't dropped due to newer models. I was thinking if I had to pay premium prices I might as well get a D7200 but used one seem to sell for at least 90% of new prices, so my plans are on hold for now. Fortunately the D300 still works great.
 
Tony Beach said:
lickity split said:
...even though the AF on the D500 may be top notch
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Why qualify it? It is top notch.
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Yeah but to me the image quality is not on the same level as what I'm use to getting out of the D810
I think Nikon kinda did the same thing but reversed with the DF ,it but a great sensor with a crap AF in it and some people loved it just like you with the D500 there's nothing wrong with that but it's just not for me .
Tony Beach said:
Tony Beach said:
in [sic] just not a fan of the image quality, I bought a D3s after the D500 and I still dump the D500
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From what I see there is nothing wrong with the D500 image quality. The D500 has more resolution than the D3s, better DR up to ISO 800, holds it own at equivalent apertures at any ISO, and is a clearly better choice when cropping (i.e., inadequate reach) is a factor.
Tony Beach said:
I guess I'm just not a fan of the DX format.
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That being the case, it looks like you're in the wrong forum.
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No not really I still have mine and use once in a while but it's my least favorite of my three bodies , if I'm breaking some kinda of forum rule by saying so I apologize.
 
The reason that D7200s sell for close to retail is that the retail price for a new camera are pretty low for what is one of the top performing cameras in the Nikon lineup Even the new D500 cannot materially out-perform the D7200 in terms of image quality and the D7200 is 24 megapixels vs. the D500's 20 megapixels. In the Spring I'll likely buy either the D500 or the D7200 to complement my D800 but its a difficult choice. There are times I could use the D500's capabilities but are those capabilities worth the price. I shoot more in the long telephoto ranges vs. wide angle and so I'd like a camera that gets more megapixels on the subject vs. my D800 and the D7200 gets about twice as many additional pixels on the subject than the D500 when compared to the D800 in crop mode.
 
Bmark said:
The reason that D7200s sell for close to retail is that the retail price for a new camera are pretty low for what is one of the top performing cameras in the Nikon lineup Even the new D500 cannot materially out-perform the D7200 in terms of image quality and the D7200 is 24 megapixels vs. the D500's 20 megapixels. In the Spring I'll likely buy either the D500 or the D7200 to complement my D800 but its a difficult choice. There are times I could use the D500's capabilities but are those capabilities worth the price. I shoot more in the long telephoto ranges vs. wide angle and so I'd like a camera that gets more megapixels on the subject vs. my D800 and the D7200 gets about twice as many additional pixels on the subject than the D500 when compared to the D800 in crop mode.
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Assuming we get a D820, but even if we do it will likely be a $3,000 + camera

Frankly, I'm not sure I want more megapixels than what I have with the D800. Those raw files are huge and the resulting adjusted files are even larger. I already have a 4 terabyte external hard drive.
 
lickity split said:
Tony Beach said:
lickity split said:
...even though the AF on the D500 may be top notch
Click to expand...
Why qualify it? It is top notch.
Click to expand...
Yeah but to me the image quality is not on the same level as what I'm use to getting out of the D810
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You missed the point. The AF is top notch and not "may be top notch."
lickity split said:
I think Nikon kinda did the same thing but reversed with the DF, it but a great sensor with a crap AF in it and some people loved it just like you with the D500 there's nothing wrong with that but it's just not for me.
lickity split said:
lickity split said:
in [sic] just not a fan of the image quality, I bought a D3s after the D500 and I still dump the D500
Click to expand...
From what I see there is nothing wrong with the D500 image quality. The D500 has more resolution than the D3s, better DR up to ISO 800, holds it own at equivalent apertures at any ISO, and is a clearly better choice when cropping (i.e., inadequate reach) is a factor.
lickity split said:
I guess I'm just not a fan of the DX format.
Click to expand...
That being the case, it looks like you're in the wrong forum.
Click to expand...
No not really I still have mine and use once in a while but it's my least favorite of my three bodies , if I'm breaking some kinda of forum rule by saying so I apologize.
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Let me spell it out for you. You should get rid of your D500. Look at what you wrote above that I highlighted in bold print. If are "not a fan of DX format" then you should "dump" the D500.

--
http://imageevent.com/tonybeach/twelveimages
 
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Bmark said:
The reason that D7200s sell for close to retail is that the retail price for a new camera are pretty low for what is one of the top performing cameras in the Nikon lineup Even the new D500 cannot materially out-perform the D7200 in terms of image quality and the D7200 is 24 megapixels vs. the D500's 20 megapixels. In the Spring I'll likely buy either the D500 or the D7200 to complement my D800 but its a difficult choice. There are times I could use the D500's capabilities but are those capabilities worth the price. I shoot more in the long telephoto ranges vs. wide angle and so I'd like a camera that gets more megapixels on the subject vs.
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Bmark said:
my D800 and the D7200 gets about twice as many additional pixels on the subject than the D500 when compared to the D800 in crop mode.
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Bmark,....the underlined/bold from your reply has me scratching my head. When and how is it that a 24mp D7200 sensor has nearly "twice" as many pixels on the subject than the D500 (20.9mp sensor)? Surely, you are inflating your response vs applying simple math here.
 
Bmark said:
The reason that D7200s sell for close to retail is that the retail price for a new camera are pretty low for what is one of the top performing cameras in the Nikon lineup Even the new D500 cannot materially out-perform the D7200 in terms of image quality and the D7200 is 24 megapixels vs. the D500's 20 megapixels. In the Spring I'll likely buy either the D500 or the D7200 to complement my D800 but its a difficult choice. There are times I could use the D500's capabilities but are those capabilities worth the price. I shoot more in the long telephoto ranges vs. wide angle and so I'd like a camera that gets more megapixels on the subject vs. my D800 and the D7200 gets about twice as many additional pixels on the subject than the D500 when compared to the D800 in crop mode.
Click to expand...
On the horizontal axis the D500 has 768 additional pixels while the D7200 has 1200 additional pixels, so that's a 36% difference. However, that distorts the difference between the D500 and the D7200, which is actually less than 8%, and according to Thom Hogan most don't see a difference at less than 14%. Put another way, the D500 has 14% more resolution than the D800 in DX crop mode while the D7200 has 20% more resolution -- so both rise above visibly better (under the right conditions, and according to Thom Hogan) than the D800, but the difference between the two DX cameras isn't enough to be visibly different from one another.

OTOH, a nailed focus will be visibly better than one that is even slightly off. Ten fps is 50% more likely to get a moment than 7 fps, and if that moment comes after about three seconds of a burst then you still get ten chances per second to get it with the D500 but you are far less likely to get it with the D7200. The bottom line here is that with the D500 you gain much more in AF, fps, and buffer over the D7200 than you lose to the D7200 in resolution (which is practically nothing).

--
http://imageevent.com/tonybeach/twelveimages
 
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lickity split said:
Tony Beach said:
lickity split said:
...even though the AF on the D500 may be top notch
Click to expand...
Why qualify it? It is top notch.
Click to expand...
Yeah but to me the image quality is not on the same level as what I'm use to getting out of the D810
I think Nikon kinda did the same thing but reversed with the DF ,it but a great sensor with a crap AF in it and some people loved it just like you with the D500 there's nothing wrong with that but it's just not for me .
lickity split said:
lickity split said:
in [sic] just not a fan of the image quality, I bought a D3s after the D500 and I still dump the D500
Click to expand...
From what I see there is nothing wrong with the D500 image quality. The D500 has more resolution than the D3s, better DR up to ISO 800, holds it own at equivalent apertures at any ISO, and is a clearly better choice when cropping (i.e., inadequate reach) is a factor.
lickity split said:
I guess I'm just not a fan of the DX format.
Click to expand...
That being the case, it looks like you're in the wrong forum.
Click to expand...
No not really I still have mine and use once in a while but it's my least favorite of my three bodies , if I'm breaking some kinda of forum rule by saying so I apologize.
Click to expand...
 
n057 said:
lickity split said:
Tony Beach said:
lickity split said:
...even though the AF on the D500 may be top notch
Click to expand...
Why qualify it? It is top notch.
Click to expand...
Yeah but to me the image quality is not on the same level as what I'm use to getting out of the D810
I think Nikon kinda did the same thing but reversed with the DF ,it but a great sensor with a crap AF in it and some people loved it just like you with the D500 there's nothing wrong with that but it's just not for me .
n057 said:
n057 said:
in [sic] just not a fan of the image quality, I bought a D3s after the D500 and I still dump the D500
Click to expand...
From what I see there is nothing wrong with the D500 image quality. The D500 has more resolution than the D3s, better DR up to ISO 800, holds it own at equivalent apertures at any ISO, and is a clearly better choice when cropping (i.e., inadequate reach) is a factor.
n057 said:
I guess I'm just not a fan of the DX format.
Click to expand...
That being the case, it looks like you're in the wrong forum.
Click to expand...
No not really I still have mine and use once in a while but it's my least favorite of my three bodies , if I'm breaking some kinda of forum rule by saying so I apologize.
n057 said:
--
http://imageevent.com/tonybeach/twelveimages
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--
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lickitysplit11111/
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You are not breaking any forum rule and this is not a conspiracy against you. You are just being illogical with all those statements: you just don't grok the D500, why keep it and get something more useful to you?

I don't like FX, but I won't go on the FX forum to harp about it. As a matter of fact, my last FX camera was a film one.

JC
Some cameras, some lenses, some computers
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I'm with Lickity on this. No ones business if he keeps it or not, how well he likes it or not, how often he uses it or not. He doesn't even need one to participate in a forum here. And the difference between Lickity commenting here on the D500 and you going to the Fx forum and commenting on Fx, is that he owns what he's talking about and you don't. I didn't see a sign on the D500 door saying you either have to like it or stay out. Some of you take it too personal, me thinks.

--
A Canon G5 and a bit of Nikon gear.
---------------------------
Nobody paints like that anymore either. But it can't be wrong to try - Bob Dylan
 
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T O Shooter said:
n057 said:
lickity split said:
Tony Beach said:
lickity split said:
...even though the AF on the D500 may be top notch
Click to expand...
Why qualify it? It is top notch.
Click to expand...
Yeah but to me the image quality is not on the same level as what I'm use to getting out of the D810
I think Nikon kinda did the same thing but reversed with the DF ,it but a great sensor with a crap AF in it and some people loved it just like you with the D500 there's nothing wrong with that but it's just not for me .
T O Shooter said:
T O Shooter said:
in [sic] just not a fan of the image quality, I bought a D3s after the D500 and I still dump the D500
Click to expand...
From what I see there is nothing wrong with the D500 image quality. The D500 has more resolution than the D3s, better DR up to ISO 800, holds it own at equivalent apertures at any ISO, and is a clearly better choice when cropping (i.e., inadequate reach) is a factor.
T O Shooter said:
I guess I'm just not a fan of the DX format.
Click to expand...
That being the case, it looks like you're in the wrong forum.
Click to expand...
No not really I still have mine and use once in a while but it's my least favorite of my three bodies , if I'm breaking some kinda of forum rule by saying so I apologize.
Click to expand...
You are not breaking any forum rule and this is not a conspiracy against you. You are just being illogical with all those statements: you just don't grok the D500, why keep it and get something more useful to you?

I don't like FX, but I won't go on the FX forum to harp about it. As a matter of fact, my last FX camera was a film one.
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I'm with Lickity on this.
Click to expand...
It goes without saying that I am not.
T O Shooter said:
No ones business if he keeps it or not, how well he likes it or not, how often he uses it or not.
Click to expand...
He makes it a topic by bringing it up.
T O Shooter said:
He doesn't even need one to participate in a forum here.
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True, but it raises a red flag when someone participates in a forum and doesn't have a forum's camera, hasn't used one, and/or has no interest in one. I'm not saying that would be Lickity Split, but rather I'm responding to your larger argument here.
T O Shooter said:
And the difference between Lickity commenting here on the D500 and you going to the Fx forum and commenting on Fx, is that he owns what he's talking about and you don't. I didn't see a sign on the D500 door saying you either have to like it or stay out. Some of you take it too personal, me thinks.
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I don't think questioning the logic of Lickity Split's decision to keep the D500 while saying he doesn't like its image quality and prefers to use the D3s is taking what Lickity Split said personally.
 
Let me clarify what I was trying to say.

The D800 in DX crop mode is 15.4 megapixels, the D500 is 20.9 and the D7200 is 24.2.

So my math was not perfect here, compared to the D800 in DX mode the D500 would get 5.5 more megapixels on the subject and the D7200 would get 8.8 megapixels more on the subject. So its not twice as many but rather 60% more than the D500 compared to the D800.
 
T O Shooter said:
n057 said:
lickity split said:
Tony Beach said:
lickity split said:
...even though the AF on the D500 may be top notch
Click to expand...
Why qualify it? It is top notch.
Click to expand...
Yeah but to me the image quality is not on the same level as what I'm use to getting out of the D810
I think Nikon kinda did the same thing but reversed with the DF ,it but a great sensor with a crap AF in it and some people loved it just like you with the D500 there's nothing wrong with that but it's just not for me .
T O Shooter said:
T O Shooter said:
in [sic] just not a fan of the image quality, I bought a D3s after the D500 and I still dump the D500
Click to expand...
From what I see there is nothing wrong with the D500 image quality. The D500 has more resolution than the D3s, better DR up to ISO 800, holds it own at equivalent apertures at any ISO, and is a clearly better choice when cropping (i.e., inadequate reach) is a factor.
T O Shooter said:
I guess I'm just not a fan of the DX format.
Click to expand...
That being the case, it looks like you're in the wrong forum.
Click to expand...
No not really I still have mine and use once in a while but it's my least favorite of my three bodies , if I'm breaking some kinda of forum rule by saying so I apologize.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Tony Beach said:
lickity split said:
Tony Beach said:
lickity split said:
...even though the AF on the D500 may be top notch
Click to expand...
Why qualify it? It is top notch.
Click to expand...
Yeah but to me the image quality is not on the same level as what I'm use to getting out of the D810
Click to expand...
You missed the point. The AF is top notch and not "may be top notch."
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Actually I think your the one who missed the point I'm ok with the AF it's the image quality that's kinda disappointing.
Tony Beach said:
Tony Beach said:
I think Nikon kinda did the same thing but reversed with the DF, it but a great sensor with a crap AF in it and some people loved it just like you with the D500 there's nothing wrong with that but it's just not for me.
Tony Beach said:
Tony Beach said:
in [sic] just not a fan of the image quality, I bought a D3s after the D500 and I still dump the D500
Click to expand...
From what I see there is nothing wrong with the D500 image quality. The D500 has more resolution than the D3s, better DR up to ISO 800, holds it own at equivalent apertures at any ISO, and is a clearly better choice when cropping (i.e., inadequate reach) is a factor.
Tony Beach said:
I guess I'm just not a fan of the DX format.
Click to expand...
That being the case, it looks like you're in the wrong forum.
Click to expand...
No not really I still have mine and use once in a while but it's my least favorite of my three bodies , if I'm breaking some kinda of forum rule by saying so I apologize.
Click to expand...
Let me spell it out for you. You should get rid of your D500. Look at what you wrote above that I highlighted in bold print. If are "not a fan of DX format" then you should "dump" the D500.
Click to expand...
Well if I wrote it would I really need you to highlight for me ? You sound like your a little butt hurt about my comments and opinion on the D500 which was my first and last DX camera ,Like I said I'm not a fan and how would I know that DX is not for me unless I tried it and after owning some pretty good FX gear I know which one I prefer .

Try to enjoy the rest of your day and don't sweat the small stuff . 🤓🤓
 
Tony Beach said:
Bmark said:
The reason that D7200s sell for close to retail is that the retail price for a new camera are pretty low for what is one of the top performing cameras in the Nikon lineup Even the new D500 cannot materially out-perform the D7200 in terms of image quality and the D7200 is 24 megapixels vs. the D500's 20 megapixels. In the Spring I'll likely buy either the D500 or the D7200 to complement my D800 but its a difficult choice. There are times I could use the D500's capabilities but are those capabilities worth the price. I shoot more in the long telephoto ranges vs. wide angle and so I'd like a camera that gets more megapixels on the subject vs. my D800 and the D7200 gets about twice as many additional pixels on the subject than the D500 when compared to the D800 in crop mode.
Click to expand...
On the horizontal axis the D500 has 768 additional pixels while the D7200 has 1200 additional pixels, so that's a 36% difference. However, that distorts the difference between the D500 and the D7200, which is actually less than 8%, and according to Thom Hogan most don't see a difference at less than 14%. Put another way, the D500 has 14% more resolution than the D800 in DX crop mode while the D7200 has 20% more resolution -- so both rise above visibly better (under the right conditions, and according to Thom Hogan) than the D800, but the difference between the two DX cameras isn't enough to be visibly different from one another.

OTOH, a nailed focus will be visibly better than one that is even slightly off. Ten fps is 50% more likely to get a moment than 7 fps, and if that moment comes after about three seconds of a burst then you still get ten chances per second to get it with the D500 but you are far less likely to get it with the D7200. The bottom line here is that with the D500 you gain much more in AF, fps, and buffer over the D7200 than you lose to the D7200 in resolution (which is practically nothing).
Click to expand...
 
n057 said:
T O Shooter said:
I didn't see a sign on the D500 door saying you either have to like it or stay out. Some of you take it too personal, me thinks.
Click to expand...
I don't know how else to take it :-)
Click to expand...
At some point the discussion starts to cross a line, so when T O says "some of you" that is getting personal, but I didn't see Lickity Split say anything I would take personally.
 
For my own personal needs the D800 is generally great, but when I need to travel light and take my 200-500 vs. my 800, I think a DX format camera would be of benefit.
 
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