The new Nikon 70-200mm f2.8 is around 3100 euro

Interestingly, the Nikon Nikkor VR 70-300mm 1:4,5-5,6 for Nikon 1 weighs 550g while the m.Zuiko 75-300 4.8-6.3 weighs just 423g. This has nothing to do with the sensor size of the systems
perhaps
but with the fact that the Nikkor is more rugged.
If there is any effect of build quality on weight, it will be of only secondary importance in this case.

The main reason for the weight difference between the two lenses is the difference in maximum aperture.

The m.Zuiko's maximum aperture at 300mm is f/6.3, which is 47.6mm.

This gives the entrance pupil a cross-sectional area of (47.6 / 2)^2 x pi = 1781 sq. mm

The Nikkor's maximum aperture at 300mm is f/5.6, which is 53.6mm.

This gives the entrance pupil a cross-sectional area of (53,6 / 2)^2 x pi = 2254 sq. mm

If the weight of lens elements is proportional to their cross-sectional area (which would be the case if they had the same average thickness) then we would expect the Nikkor's elements to weigh 2254/1781 = 1.3 times the m.Zuikos.

And we see the Nikkor weighs 550/423 = 1.3 times as much as the m.Zuiko.

So the difference in weight is explained by the difference in max aperture.
No Sir.
No, what? We were talking about the difference in weight between the m.zuiko 75-300 f/4.8-6.3 and the Nikkor 70-300 f/4.5-5.6. You wanted to explain the difference in weight as being down to differences in build. I showed that much of the difference was explained by difference in aperture.

What does the Panny 100-300 4.5-5.6 have to do with that?
The Panny 100-300 4.5-5.6 weighs just 520g.
So it has the same maximum aperture and weighs about the same. You are just making my point that maximum aperture diameter has a significant effect on lens weight. The slightly larger weight of the Nikkor is explained by it having a longer focal length range.
Forget it.
 
Who cares what a lens that does not fit on a M43 camera costs.

Nikon like Olympus have their motives for pricing stuff. It is usually what the market will accept.

This thread has just had the effect of bringing out all that pointless garbage about photons, total light and depth of field that gets bandied about here when formats are compared.

This forum has been quite free of this rubbish debate since the last outbreak a few weeks ago.

It has been quite pleasant following this forum of late, but I guess it could not last for long.

I hope we will see that little padlock symbol on this thread quite soon.
 
Who cares what a lens that does not fit on a M43 camera costs.
You could fit it on an mFT camera with an easy to buy adapter. Since this lens has a fully electronic mount, it's a matter of time before someone brings out a full function adapter.

Could be quite useful, since there isn't a native lens for micro Four Thirds which gives a 6.2 degree angle of view with a 71.5mm aperture.
 
Who cares what a lens that does not fit on a M43 camera costs.

Nikon like Olympus have their motives for pricing stuff. It is usually what the market will accept.

This thread has just had the effect of bringing out all that pointless garbage about photons, total light and depth of field that gets bandied about here when formats are compared.

This forum has been quite free of this rubbish debate since the last outbreak a few weeks ago.

It has been quite pleasant following this forum of late, but I guess it could not last for long.

I hope we will see that little padlock symbol on this thread quite soon.
 
BTW it is interesting Nikon has cracked and started using Fluorite, after years of sniffing at Canon's use of it.
I would guess the sniffing was mostly because they couldn't do it. Canon produced their own synthetic fluorite for optical use. Nikon presumably could do it (or buy it), since they use it in their stepper optics, but possibly hadn't got the price down enough for the general photographic market, or didn't have the production capacity.

Whatever, now they seem to be unable to produce a new lens without fluorite elements.
 
BTW it is interesting Nikon has cracked and started using Fluorite, after years of sniffing at Canon's use of it.
I would guess the sniffing was mostly because they couldn't do it. Canon produced their own synthetic fluorite for optical use. Nikon presumably could do it (or buy it), since they use it in their stepper optics, but possibly hadn't got the price down enough for the general photographic market, or didn't have the production capacity.

Whatever, now they seem to be unable to produce a new lens without fluorite elements.
 
The m.Zuiko 40-150mm f2.8 is only 1400 euro :)
Seems about right - the Nikon is almost exactly twice the mass of the Oly, most of which will be expensive glass.

--
Colin K. Work
www.ckwphoto.com
www.pixstel.com
Plus presumably has to reach about m43 lens levels of on-sensor resolution over 4x the area (assuming the approaching D810 follow-up will have at least 5Dsr pixel densities which is 90% of that of a 16MP m43 sensor).
Completely silly thread though, but that's the forum... still amazes me people say "f2.8 is f2.8", their cell-phones are probably faster than that, mine is f1.8, quite why I have m43 and FF cameras when the phone has it covered for light collection seems to be beyond some people...
Apparently YOU are the one who doesn't understand that there are far more factors determining the IQ than just the maximum aperture of a lens. .
Such as...?
Really?

Are you going to tell me that these cheapo 50 1.8 primes make for a good IQ?

--
I wish I was an OLYgarch
 
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It could have been an interesting thread but the way it has gone has made it one of those stupid pointless discussions about the usual nothing relevant to photography in the real world.

Strange how "Total light" rhymes with "total s..................

http://nigelvoak.blogspot.it/
How could it have been interesting? What new is there to be learned? The MFT lens is smaller, lighter and cheaper; the FF lens is heavier, bigger and more expensive, but has a much wider operating envelope. What big revelations were you hoping to find in this thread? You've been here long enough to know exactly how this was going down, and yet you still came in and did absolutely nothing to steer it in a better direction.......

I guess it's easier to complain than to do better or walk away
 
BTW it is interesting Nikon has cracked and started using Fluorite, after years of sniffing at Canon's use of it.
I would guess the sniffing was mostly because they couldn't do it. Canon produced their own synthetic fluorite for optical use. Nikon presumably could do it (or buy it), since they use it in their stepper optics, but possibly hadn't got the price down enough for the general photographic market, or didn't have the production capacity.

Whatever, now they seem to be unable to produce a new lens without fluorite elements.
 
There's nothing "theoretical" about what's presented in those articles- they back it all up with a ton of clear real world examples.
You are right. There is absolutely no scientific theory whatsoever. It is all speculation, unjustified conclusions and opinion.

I have asked it before and I will ask it again. What is the scientific basis for the claim that image noise is dependent on the total light, falling on the sensor? No, really, could you please explain the scientific basis for that claim? Or, failing that, the theory that explains this strange phenomenon?

And I do not mean a reference to an "expert" or "scholar" or DPR staff writer who simply makes the same claim without providing the physics to back it up. I mean the actual scientific theory.

So, come on, let's have the physics.
Google "Emil Martinec" and then read the following:

http://theory.uchicago.edu/~ejm/pix/20d/tests/noise/
No, nothing there explaining the physics behind your absurd claim that the noise in an image is related to the total light received by the sensor. In fact total light is not even mentioned at all, which would seem to directly contradict your claim.
Next, start a thread on the topic in the Photographic Science and Technology forum. Surely, you have no objection to starting such a thread, right? I mean, that would mean that you were just, well, what's the word?
In other words you are totally unable to come up with a single example of the scientific basis for your claim that image noise is dependent on the total light, falling on the sensor. And that is because it is not true.

Do you see how that works? There is no scientific basis for your claim that because a large sensor receives more total light than a small sensor the image noise is less and therefore your claim is nothing more than an often repeated fallacy.

QED
 
There's nothing "theoretical" about what's presented in those articles- they back it all up with a ton of clear real world examples.
You are right. There is absolutely no scientific theory whatsoever. It is all speculation, unjustified conclusions and opinion.

I have asked it before and I will ask it again. What is the scientific basis for the claim that image noise is dependent on the total light, falling on the sensor? No, really, could you please explain the scientific basis for that claim? Or, failing that, the theory that explains this strange phenomenon?

And I do not mean a reference to an "expert" or "scholar" or DPR staff writer who simply makes the same claim without providing the physics to back it up. I mean the actual scientific theory.

So, come on, let's have the physics.
Google "Emil Martinec" and then read the following:

http://theory.uchicago.edu/~ejm/pix/20d/tests/noise/
No, nothing there explaining the physics behind your absurd claim that the noise in an image is related to the total light received by the sensor.
Oh, there really, really is.
In fact total light is not even mentioned at all, which would seem to directly contradict your claim.
It needs a bit of ability to understand the principles and work through it. You'll obviously need to go through this step by step. I gave you a start here:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/58532385

Off you go!
 
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The m.Zuiko 40-150mm f2.8 is only 1400 euro :)
Seems about right - the Nikon is almost exactly twice the mass of the Oly, most of which will be expensive glass.

--
Colin K. Work
www.ckwphoto.com
www.pixstel.com
Plus presumably has to reach about m43 lens levels of on-sensor resolution over 4x the area (assuming the approaching D810 follow-up will have at least 5Dsr pixel densities which is 90% of that of a 16MP m43 sensor).
Completely silly thread though, but that's the forum... still amazes me people say "f2.8 is f2.8", their cell-phones are probably faster than that, mine is f1.8, quite why I have m43 and FF cameras when the phone has it covered for light collection seems to be beyond some people...
Apparently YOU are the one who doesn't understand that there are far more factors determining the IQ than just the maximum aperture of a lens. .
Such as...?
Really?

Are you going to tell me that these cheapo 50 1.8 primes make for a good IQ?

--
I wish I was an OLYgarch
Definitely. What's wrong with a cheapo 50 1.8 prime? The cheapo 25mm MFT primes are no better.
 
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It could have been an interesting thread but the way it has gone has made it one of those stupid pointless discussions about the usual nothing relevant to photography in the real world.

Strange how "Total light" rhymes with "total s..................

http://nigelvoak.blogspot.it/
How could it have been interesting? What new is there to be learned? The MFT lens is smaller, lighter and cheaper; the FF lens is heavier, bigger and more expensive, but has a much wider operating envelope. What big revelations were you hoping to find in this thread? You've been here long enough to know exactly how this was going down, and yet you still came in and did absolutely nothing to steer it in a better direction.......

I guess it's easier to complain than to do better or walk away
I did as a matter of fact

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/58525742

These comparisons threads always go down the same stupid road unfortunately.

--
 
BTW it is interesting Nikon has cracked and started using Fluorite, after years of sniffing at Canon's use of it.
I would guess the sniffing was mostly because they couldn't do it. Canon produced their own synthetic fluorite for optical use. Nikon presumably could do it (or buy it), since they use it in their stepper optics, but possibly hadn't got the price down enough for the general photographic market, or didn't have the production capacity.

Whatever, now they seem to be unable to produce a new lens without fluorite elements.
 

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