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Nikon needs to release a Sony a99 II copy

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lhkjacky said:
Tony Beach said:
The 42 MP sensor offers essentially nothing over the 36 MP sensor Nikon is currently using in the D810. DR is lower at base ISO, resolution is marginal, the D5 is a better choice for high ISOs
Click to expand...
View original

View original
Click to expand...
Look, enough said here about why there is no compelling reason for Nikon to upgrade the D810 with this Sony sensor. In fact, the D810 has slightly less DR than the D800/D800E, which illustrates how much of a non-issue this is. Thom Hogan has addressed the whole BSI thing at Nikon Rumors (and I believe at his own site), and there just isn't a compelling reason to use that technology on larger formats.

As I wrote in another post, Nikon is better off working on a D810 successor that competes with Canon's 51 MP cameras.

--
 
Douglas F Watt said:
I think you've badly missed the point of the several responses on this wish list from Sony forum members: Nikon doesn't have the technology in-house to achieve these features (12 FPS in a 42MP BSI sensor, with a hybrid AF system). While they have class leading AF systems, and do a great job with optimizing microlens and other operational details and specifications on the sensors they are buying from Sony and Reneas, they can neither buy or make a competing sensor to the 42MP BSI sensor - at least right now (although the 36MP Sony predecessor is itself pretty impressive).
Click to expand...
Nikon has no interest in that sensor, and for good reasons.
Douglas F Watt said:
As for bringing back OVF, once you've used a great EVF, you can never go back to OVF systems.
Click to expand...
This is what provoked the title of my post. Why would I want to put up with viewfinder lag? I'm also not interested in having my view through the viewfinder dictated by my camera's settings, I want to see through the lens without any alterations of the colors and DR of the scene I'm looking at -- I would hate to see an approximation of what I get from my Live View in my viewfinder -- YMMV, and that's fine for you, but don't presume to tell me what I want or would want if only I knew better.
Douglas F Watt said:
But we agree with your request for lower lens prices!
Click to expand...
Not to mention more lens choices. Sony just isn't there yet, although they are making progress.

--
http://imageevent.com/tonybeach/twelveimages
 
Last edited:
Tony Beach said:
Douglas F Watt said:
I think you've badly missed the point of the several responses on this wish list from Sony forum members: Nikon doesn't have the technology in-house to achieve these features (12 FPS in a 42MP BSI sensor, with a hybrid AF system). While they have class leading AF systems, and do a great job with optimizing microlens and other operational details and specifications on the sensors they are buying from Sony and Reneas, they can neither buy or make a competing sensor to the 42MP BSI sensor - at least right now (although the 36MP Sony predecessor is itself pretty impressive).
Click to expand...
Nikon has no interest in that sensor, and for good reasons.
Tony Beach said:
As for bringing back OVF, once you've used a great EVF, you can never go back to OVF systems.
Click to expand...
This is what provoked the title of my post. Why would I want to put up with viewfinder lag? I'm also not interested in having my view through the viewfinder dictated by my camera's settings, I want to see through the lens without any alterations of the colors and DR of the scene I'm looking at -- I would hate to see an approximation of what I get from my Live View in my viewfinder -- YMMV, and that's fine for you, but don't presume to tell me what I want or would want if only I knew better.
Click to expand...
In your opinion and from your perspective OVF might be better, just not from mine. That's why you are here, and I am in Sony.
Tony Beach said:
Tony Beach said:
But we agree with your request for lower lens prices!
Click to expand...
Not to mention more lens choices. Sony just isn't there yet, although they are making progress.
Click to expand...
 
Kharan said:
I'd argue that the bigger problem is Nikon's unwillingness to cannibalize their D5 sales. It's the reason for the lack of a 'speed' version of the D750/D800. They're not gonna put 12 FPS with AF on a camera that isn't a Dx, at least not for now.
Click to expand...
Exactly.

The fact is that the vast majority of people don't need high frame rates anyway. Like megapixels and high ISO it's something used to sell cameras on "feeds and speeds" (technical specs).

But, if you do need high FPS (you shoot fast action sports, etc.) then you're going to get a D5 and it isn't even a question, and if you can't afford a D5 then you'll get a D500.

--
http://www.instagram.com/ggbourne
http://www.flickr.com/ggbourne
 
Last edited:
Tony Beach said:
lhkjacky said:
Tony Beach said:
The 42 MP sensor offers essentially nothing over the 36 MP sensor Nikon is currently using in the D810. DR is lower at base ISO, resolution is marginal, the D5 is a better choice for high ISOs
Click to expand...
View original

View original
Click to expand...
Look, enough said here about why there is no compelling reason for Nikon to upgrade the D810 with this Sony sensor. In fact, the D810 has slightly less DR than the D800/D800E, which illustrates how much of a non-issue this is. Thom Hogan has addressed the whole BSI thing at Nikon Rumors (and I believe at his own site), and there just isn't a compelling reason to use that technology on larger formats.

As I wrote in another post, Nikon is better off working on a D810 successor that competes with Canon's 51 MP cameras.

--
http://imageevent.com/tonybeach/twelveimages
Click to expand...
I don't think Nikon want to make a recession competing with a sensor that only has more resolution and is worse in everything else.

--
Regards,
Juan

500px

500px.com 500px.com
 
Endos said:
Tony Beach said:
lhkjacky said:
Tony Beach said:
The 42 MP sensor offers essentially nothing over the 36 MP sensor Nikon is currently using in the D810. DR is lower at base ISO, resolution is marginal, the D5 is a better choice for high ISOs
Click to expand...
View original

View original
Click to expand...
Look, enough said here about why there is no compelling reason for Nikon to upgrade the D810 with this Sony sensor. In fact, the D810 has slightly less DR than the D800/D800E, which illustrates how much of a non-issue this is. Thom Hogan has addressed the whole BSI thing at Nikon Rumors (and I believe at his own site), and there just isn't a compelling reason to use that technology on larger formats.

As I wrote in another post, Nikon is better off working on a D810 successor that competes with Canon's 51 MP cameras.
Click to expand...
I don't think Nikon want to make a recession competing with a sensor that only has more resolution and is worse in everything else.
Click to expand...
I'm sure that when Sony offers Nikon a 50+ MP sensor that it will not be worse in everything else.

--
 
Douglas F Watt said:
Tony Beach said:
Douglas F Watt said:
As for bringing back OVF, once you've used a great EVF, you can never go back to OVF systems.
Click to expand...
This is what provoked the title of my post. Why would I want to put up with viewfinder lag? I'm also not interested in having my view through the viewfinder dictated by my camera's settings, I want to see through the lens without any alterations of the colors and DR of the scene I'm looking at -- I would hate to see an approximation of what I get from my Live View in my viewfinder -- YMMV, and that's fine for you, but don't presume to tell me what I want or would want if only I knew better.
Click to expand...
In your opinion and from your perspective OVF might be better, just not from mine. That's why you are here, and I am in Sony.
Click to expand...
While these are opinions and not facts and I stated that in my reply to your post, but in your post you wrote it as a fact that I could never go back to EVF. Also, for me it's not that my OVF "might" be better than an EVF, for me it is better, so get off your biased perspective here or just go back to your forum where the Sony fanboys worship EVF.
 
Tony Beach said:
Douglas F Watt said:
I think you've badly missed the point of the several responses on this wish list from Sony forum members: Nikon doesn't have the technology in-house to achieve these features (12 FPS in a 42MP BSI sensor, with a hybrid AF system). While they have class leading AF systems, and do a great job with optimizing microlens and other operational details and specifications on the sensors they are buying from Sony and Reneas, they can neither buy or make a competing sensor to the 42MP BSI sensor - at least right now (although the 36MP Sony predecessor is itself pretty impressive).
Click to expand...
Nikon has no interest in that sensor, and for good reasons.
Tony Beach said:
As for bringing back OVF, once you've used a great EVF, you can never go back to OVF systems.
Click to expand...
This is what provoked the title of my post. Why would I want to put up with viewfinder lag? I'm also not interested in having my view through the viewfinder dictated by my camera's settings, I want to see through the lens without any alterations of the colors and DR of the scene I'm looking at -- I would hate to see an approximation of what I get from my Live View in my viewfinder -- YMMV, and that's fine for you, but don't presume to tell me what I want or would want if only I knew better.
Tony Beach said:
But we agree with your request for lower lens prices!
Click to expand...
Not to mention more lens choices. Sony just isn't there yet, although they are making progress.

--
http://imageevent.com/tonybeach/twelveimages
Click to expand...
I would take the Fuji X-T2 EVF over the my Nikon D810 OVF any day of the week.. Gone is the viewfinder lag, blackout and its simply bigger, brighter, clearer, more useful.

People that think otherwise simply havent tried a GOOD evf released in the last year or so. Things have changed.

Best benifit of all is it completly elimitnates Chimping... you shoot and you see what you get but you can also review your image if needed in the EVF... On bright sunny days its much more effective than looking at my D810s crappy LCD screen.

So yeah, i would definatly like to see an EVF or Hybrid system like tha FUji X-Pro2 on the next D8xx series.

--
http://500px.com/vladbusuioc
 
Last edited:
1. I still think the A-mount is dead. Might not be, but that is my perseption. I think the a99 II was a last ditch effort to keep it going. Thier focus is obviously on the FE mount.

2. A-Mount lenses are MUCH more expensive... and not better than Nikon. You can buy the same Nikon lenses for 50% less sometimes... Its due to volume.

3. The Nikon and Canon flash systems are still VASTLY superior to Sony. They are catching up.. but no there yet.

4. Knowing Sony they will release a a7rII successor in the not to distant future that will destroy everything else on the market in specs.. so no point in going for A-Mount.

5. 3rd Party Manufacturers are starting to move away from Sony A-Mount and developed FE mount. Companies such as Sigma and Tamron which I both admire.
 
I check NR every day for any crumbs. It's been a long time since "the D850" has generated any articles on NR, actually the last on December of 2015.

Maybe the notion that Sony isn't selling FF sensors to their competitors is true. Maybe it is time for Nikon to consider medium format. Sony is selling that sensor to everyone it seems.
juvx said:
-42MP Full-Frame Exmor R BSI CMOS Sensor

-Internal UHD 4K Video & S-Log3 Gamma

-Hybrid Phase Detection AF System

-ISO 102400 and 12 fps Shooting with AF

-5-Axis SteadyShot INSIDE Stabilization

-3.0" 1,228.8k-Dot Tilting LCD Monitor

-Built-In Wi-Fi & NFC; 14-Bit Raw Output

-XQD card

And Add a touch screen

Put all that in a D810 body and ecosystem and it would destroy the market in sales.
Click to expand...
 
juvx said:
Tony Beach said:
Douglas F Watt said:
I think you've badly missed the point of the several responses on this wish list from Sony forum members: Nikon doesn't have the technology in-house to achieve these features (12 FPS in a 42MP BSI sensor, with a hybrid AF system). While they have class leading AF systems, and do a great job with optimizing microlens and other operational details and specifications on the sensors they are buying from Sony and Reneas, they can neither buy or make a competing sensor to the 42MP BSI sensor - at least right now (although the 36MP Sony predecessor is itself pretty impressive).
Click to expand...
Nikon has no interest in that sensor, and for good reasons.
juvx said:
As for bringing back OVF, once you've used a great EVF, you can never go back to OVF systems.
Click to expand...
This is what provoked the title of my post. Why would I want to put up with viewfinder lag? I'm also not interested in having my view through the viewfinder dictated by my camera's settings, I want to see through the lens without any alterations of the colors and DR of the scene I'm looking at -- I would hate to see an approximation of what I get from my Live View in my viewfinder -- YMMV, and that's fine for you, but don't presume to tell me what I want or would want if only I knew better.
juvx said:
But we agree with your request for lower lens prices!
Click to expand...
Not to mention more lens choices. Sony just isn't there yet, although they are making progress.
Click to expand...
I would take the Fuji X-T2 EVF over the my Nikon D810 OVF any day of the week.. Gone is the viewfinder lag, blackout and its simply bigger, brighter, clearer, more useful.

People that think otherwise simply havent tried a GOOD evf released in the last year or so. Things have changed.
Click to expand...
Some things haven't changed as much as you seem to think: Thom still isn't convinced about the lag issue with EVF.
juvx said:
Best benifit of all is it completly elimitnates Chimping... you shoot and you see what you get but you can also review your image if needed in the EVF... On bright sunny days its much more effective than looking at my D810s crappy LCD screen.
Click to expand...
The thing about chimping is that it only shows you part of the picture. I do not see how the photo will appear when it's finished, and what I give up for that is I don't see how the scene is through the lens without alterations from the camera's Picture Controls.
juvx said:
So yeah, i would definatly like to see an EVF or Hybrid system like tha FUji X-Pro2 on the next D8xx series.
Click to expand...
Thankfully, for now, that's not going to happen.

--
http://imageevent.com/tonybeach/twelveimages
 
Last edited:
Rick Knepper said:
I check NR every day for any crumbs. It's been a long time since "the D850" has generated any articles on NR, actually the last on December of 2015.

Maybe the notion that Sony isn't selling FF sensors to their competitors is true. Maybe it is time for Nikon to consider medium format. Sony is selling that sensor to everyone it seems.
Click to expand...
Could very well be the case.

Or maybe Nikon is looking for 50-60 MP sensor to compete with the Canon 5DSR and they skipped the 42 mp Sony sensor. Not wanting to fall behind Canon in the MP wars.

Honestly, I think thats the real reason.. because the D8XX was traditionally the MP King of the Market in DSLRs and i think thats where Nikon wants it to stay. Im expecting a 60MP sensor that can do ISO 50 or something crazy like that.
 
Tony Beach said:
juvx said:
Tony Beach said:
Douglas F Watt said:
I think you've badly missed the point of the several responses on this wish list from Sony forum members: Nikon doesn't have the technology in-house to achieve these features (12 FPS in a 42MP BSI sensor, with a hybrid AF system). While they have class leading AF systems, and do a great job with optimizing microlens and other operational details and specifications on the sensors they are buying from Sony and Reneas, they can neither buy or make a competing sensor to the 42MP BSI sensor - at least right now (although the 36MP Sony predecessor is itself pretty impressive).
Click to expand...
Nikon has no interest in that sensor, and for good reasons.
Tony Beach said:
As for bringing back OVF, once you've used a great EVF, you can never go back to OVF systems.
Click to expand...
This is what provoked the title of my post. Why would I want to put up with viewfinder lag? I'm also not interested in having my view through the viewfinder dictated by my camera's settings, I want to see through the lens without any alterations of the colors and DR of the scene I'm looking at -- I would hate to see an approximation of what I get from my Live View in my viewfinder -- YMMV, and that's fine for you, but don't presume to tell me what I want or would want if only I knew better.
Tony Beach said:
But we agree with your request for lower lens prices!
Click to expand...
Not to mention more lens choices. Sony just isn't there yet, although they are making progress.
Click to expand...
I would take the Fuji X-T2 EVF over the my Nikon D810 OVF any day of the week.. Gone is the viewfinder lag, blackout and its simply bigger, brighter, clearer, more useful.

People that think otherwise simply havent tried a GOOD evf released in the last year or so. Things have changed.
Click to expand...
Some things haven't changed as much as you seem to think: Thom still isn't convinced about the lag issue with EVF.
Click to expand...
Why is that guy compairing a DSLRs to a low end crappy Nikon or Canon camera.. of course it wont be the same... NIKON Mirrorless is absolute Garbage.. period, end of story. So is Canon...

Real mirrorless cameras are : Sony, Fuji, Olympus, Panasonic... thats it. Canon and Nikon are 4 years behind.

Again.. the MODERN EVFs are excellent. Sony a7rII, Sony a6300 and a6500, Fuji X-T2, Panasonic GX8, Olympus OMD EM5 II, etc..

Tony Beach said:
Tony Beach said:
Best benifit of all is it completly elimitnates Chimping... you shoot and you see what you get but you can also review your image if needed in the EVF... On bright sunny days its much more effective than looking at my D810s crappy LCD screen.
Click to expand...
The thing about chimping is that it only shows you part of the picture. I do not see how the photo will appear when it's finished, and what I give up for that is I don't see how the scene is through the lens without alterations from the camera's Picture Controls.
Click to expand...
Sure you can, you can turn that off.. its an option to not display the preview.
Tony Beach said:
Tony Beach said:
So yeah, i would definatly like to see an EVF or Hybrid system like tha FUji X-Pro2 on the next D8xx series.
Click to expand...
Thankfully, for now, that's not going to happen.
Click to expand...
 
juvx said:
Tony Beach said:
Douglas F Watt said:
I think you've badly missed the point of the several responses on this wish list from Sony forum members: Nikon doesn't have the technology in-house to achieve these features (12 FPS in a 42MP BSI sensor, with a hybrid AF system). While they have class leading AF systems, and do a great job with optimizing microlens and other operational details and specifications on the sensors they are buying from Sony and Reneas, they can neither buy or make a competing sensor to the 42MP BSI sensor - at least right now (although the 36MP Sony predecessor is itself pretty impressive).
Click to expand...
Nikon has no interest in that sensor, and for good reasons.
juvx said:
As for bringing back OVF, once you've used a great EVF, you can never go back to OVF systems.
Click to expand...
This is what provoked the title of my post. Why would I want to put up with viewfinder lag? I'm also not interested in having my view through the viewfinder dictated by my camera's settings, I want to see through the lens without any alterations of the colors and DR of the scene I'm looking at -- I would hate to see an approximation of what I get from my Live View in my viewfinder -- YMMV, and that's fine for you, but don't presume to tell me what I want or would want if only I knew better.
juvx said:
But we agree with your request for lower lens prices!
Click to expand...
Not to mention more lens choices. Sony just isn't there yet, although they are making progress.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
steelhead3 said:
The rumoured A9 is supposed to be 70 mpixel, maybe Sony will let Nikon have that?
Click to expand...
Maybe thats what Nikon is waiting on.

If they upgraded to the 42mp, they'd still be behind the 5DSR
 
LordKOTL said:
juvx said:
Tony Beach said:
Douglas F Watt said:
I think you've badly missed the point of the several responses on this wish list from Sony forum members: Nikon doesn't have the technology in-house to achieve these features (12 FPS in a 42MP BSI sensor, with a hybrid AF system). While they have class leading AF systems, and do a great job with optimizing microlens and other operational details and specifications on the sensors they are buying from Sony and Reneas, they can neither buy or make a competing sensor to the 42MP BSI sensor - at least right now (although the 36MP Sony predecessor is itself pretty impressive).
Click to expand...
Nikon has no interest in that sensor, and for good reasons.
LordKOTL said:
As for bringing back OVF, once you've used a great EVF, you can never go back to OVF systems.
Click to expand...
This is what provoked the title of my post. Why would I want to put up with viewfinder lag? I'm also not interested in having my view through the viewfinder dictated by my camera's settings, I want to see through the lens without any alterations of the colors and DR of the scene I'm looking at -- I would hate to see an approximation of what I get from my Live View in my viewfinder -- YMMV, and that's fine for you, but don't presume to tell me what I want or would want if only I knew better.
LordKOTL said:
But we agree with your request for lower lens prices!
Click to expand...
Not to mention more lens choices. Sony just isn't there yet, although they are making progress.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
juvx said:
Tony Beach said:
juvx said:
Tony Beach said:
Douglas F Watt said:
I think you've badly missed the point of the several responses on this wish list from Sony forum members: Nikon doesn't have the technology in-house to achieve these features (12 FPS in a 42MP BSI sensor, with a hybrid AF system). While they have class leading AF systems, and do a great job with optimizing microlens and other operational details and specifications on the sensors they are buying from Sony and Reneas, they can neither buy or make a competing sensor to the 42MP BSI sensor - at least right now (although the 36MP Sony predecessor is itself pretty impressive).
Click to expand...
Nikon has no interest in that sensor, and for good reasons.
juvx said:
As for bringing back OVF, once you've used a great EVF, you can never go back to OVF systems.
Click to expand...
This is what provoked the title of my post. Why would I want to put up with viewfinder lag? I'm also not interested in having my view through the viewfinder dictated by my camera's settings, I want to see through the lens without any alterations of the colors and DR of the scene I'm looking at -- I would hate to see an approximation of what I get from my Live View in my viewfinder -- YMMV, and that's fine for you, but don't presume to tell me what I want or would want if only I knew better.
juvx said:
But we agree with your request for lower lens prices!
Click to expand...
Not to mention more lens choices. Sony just isn't there yet, although they are making progress.
Click to expand...
I would take the Fuji X-T2 EVF over the my Nikon D810 OVF any day of the week.. Gone is the viewfinder lag, blackout and its simply bigger, brighter, clearer, more useful.

People that think otherwise simply havent tried a GOOD evf released in the last year or so. Things have changed.
Click to expand...
Some things haven't changed as much as you seem to think: Thom still isn't convinced about the lag issue with EVF.
Click to expand...
Why is that guy compairing a DSLRs to a low end crappy Nikon or Canon camera.. of course it wont be the same... NIKON Mirrorless is absolute Garbage.. period, end of story. So is Canon...

Real mirrorless cameras are : Sony, Fuji, Olympus, Panasonic... thats it. Canon and Nikon are 4 years behind.

Again.. the MODERN EVFs are excellent. Sony a7rII, Sony a6300 and a6500, Fuji X-T2, Panasonic GX8, Olympus OMD EM5 II, etc..
Click to expand...
You didn't even read what he wrote, or you would have read this, "The very best lag I’ve seen in one is the one in the Samsung NX1, which runs at about 1/250 behind reality." I'll take what Thom Hogan ("that guy") has to say about this over what you have to say about it every time.
juvx said:
juvx said:
juvx said:
Best benifit of all is it completly elimitnates Chimping... you shoot and you see what you get but you can also review your image if needed in the EVF... On bright sunny days its much more effective than looking at my D810s crappy LCD screen.
Click to expand...
The thing about chimping is that it only shows you part of the picture. I do not see how the photo will appear when it's finished, and what I give up for that is I don't see how the scene is through the lens without alterations from the camera's Picture Controls.
Click to expand...
Sure you can, you can turn that off.. its an option to not display the preview.
Click to expand...
Again, you are entirely missing the point. I don't want to see the camera settings' interpretation of the scene, I want to see it in real time through the lens.

--
http://imageevent.com/tonybeach/twelveimages
 
Last edited:
steelhead3 said:
The rumoured A9 is supposed to be 70 mpixel, maybe Sony will let Nikon have that?
Click to expand...
What makes you imply that Sony would keep any sensor to themselves if someone else could buy it? Sony has no good reason to do that, and it's clear that they don't. If Sony did that then the price of their sensors (the single most expensive component in a 135 format camera) would be prohibitively expensive because their volume would drop dramatically.
 
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