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Upgrading to D750/D810/DF ??

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Tipnturn

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Hi all, thanks in advance for reading and replying! It is appreciated.

I am currently earning some money through my photography, doing some events, seconding at weddings, and houses for estate agents. It's not glam, but it beats a lot of other jobs! I am also printing (usually at about 16 x 12) my landscape/outdoor images, which are more my passion, but (so far) less my income! I am hoping to sell these at various Xmas/Craft markets etc.

I am currently shooting on an Olympus EM1 with the three Pro zooms. I got it for its size primarily, but on events the battery life is a headache and I've been a bit disappointed with the noise on as low as ISO 800. The images are great, but seem to lack something that FF gives (or it might just be my technique, which is improving!). I've also found real issues with lens flaring and hot pixels whenever there is anything approaching backlit or even with strong side light. I like to do sunsets through trees that sort of thing! Very frustrating and caused a lot of lost images so far. (not got to the stage of taking two images and merging them yet though i know this is one fix).

So, in the typical style of a workman and their tools, I've been looking at something I can use that will give me an even better quality of landscape image. Clearer with more detail, but unless I sell all my M4/3 kit, I am a little restricted on budget (probably to a D610) or if I sell it all then I can afford a better/higher end body. So, essentially if I sell all my M4/3 kit then budget of around 3/3.5k for body and glass.

The challenge of course is finding the right tool for the right job, when that job might be an indoors event one weekend and out in the hills doing landscapes the next...I know the obvious answer is two bodies (perhaps a d750 and a D610? or a DF?).

Size and weight are of course factors, but I am fit and healthy and don't mind carrying a few hundred grams more if it means better images. I readily accept my technique needs to improve as I appreciate the photographer is an inherently key part of the end product!

All replies welcomed, my first time here!
 
Get a D750. If you struggle with noise at ISO 800 it will blow you away.

Lens wise you have lots of options - you have of course the holy trinity 14-24, 24-70, 70-200 all 2.8 but you would spend almost twice your budget on those alone. There are cheaper alternatives and you have to remember that with the better low light performace and huge dynamic range of the body you dont necessarily need to pay big bucks for fast lenses to get started.

Guessing for your property shoots you need something wide? I went for the 18-35mm wide for mine and was really please with the results, at £500 stg. I can easily push to 12800 for useable images so the speed isn't a deal breaker for me.
 
Bodies come and go, good glass makes a visible difference, and if it doesn't last forever, certainly outlives the useful life of most bodies - so put the bulk of your money there.

D610 an unsung hero, a bargain, and has outstanding low light performance - without an AA filter.

good luck!
 
Tipnturn said:
Hi all, thanks in advance for reading and replying! It is appreciated.

I am currently earning some money through my photography, doing some events, seconding at weddings, and houses for estate agents. It's not glam, but it beats a lot of other jobs! I am also printing (usually at about 16 x 12) my landscape/outdoor images, which are more my passion, but (so far) less my income! I am hoping to sell these at various Xmas/Craft markets etc.

I am currently shooting on an Olympus EM1 with the three Pro zooms. I got it for its size primarily, but on events the battery life is a headache and I've been a bit disappointed with the noise on as low as ISO 800. The images are great, but seem to lack something that FF gives (or it might just be my technique, which is improving!). I've also found real issues with lens flaring and hot pixels whenever there is anything approaching backlit or even with strong side light. I like to do sunsets through trees that sort of thing! Very frustrating and caused a lot of lost images so far. (not got to the stage of taking two images and merging them yet though i know this is one fix).

So, in the typical style of a workman and their tools, I've been looking at something I can use that will give me an even better quality of landscape image. Clearer with more detail, but unless I sell all my M4/3 kit, I am a little restricted on budget (probably to a D610) or if I sell it all then I can afford a better/higher end body. So, essentially if I sell all my M4/3 kit then budget of around 3/3.5k for body and glass.

The challenge of course is finding the right tool for the right job, when that job might be an indoors event one weekend and out in the hills doing landscapes the next...I know the obvious answer is two bodies (perhaps a d750 and a D610? or a DF?).

Size and weight are of course factors, but I am fit and healthy and don't mind carrying a few hundred grams more if it means better images. I readily accept my technique needs to improve as I appreciate the photographer is an inherently key part of the end product!

All replies welcomed, my first time here!
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I shoot weddings with 2 x D750 with Meike battery grip, never ever run out of battery life and my wedding days are typically 13 hours long :)

highly recommend it
 
rbmphoto said:
Bodies come and go, good glass makes a visible difference, and if it doesn't last forever, certainly outlives the useful life of most bodies - so put the bulk of your money there.

D610 an unsung hero, a bargain, and has outstanding low light performance - without an AA filter.

good luck!
Click to expand...
Yes, I keep thinking that looks like a lot of camera for the money right now, leaving cash in the bank for lenses, which will probably outlive the body! Do you own one?
 
SUFTUM said:
Get a D750. If you struggle with noise at ISO 800 it will blow you away.

Lens wise you have lots of options - you have of course the holy trinity 14-24, 24-70, 70-200 all 2.8 but you would spend almost twice your budget on those alone. There are cheaper alternatives and you have to remember that with the better low light performace and huge dynamic range of the body you dont necessarily need to pay big bucks for fast lenses to get started.

Guessing for your property shoots you need something wide? I went for the 18-35mm wide for mine and was really please with the results, at £500 stg. I can easily push to 12800 for useable images so the speed isn't a deal breaker for me.
Click to expand...
Yup I currently use a 14mm FF equivalent for the houses. Holy trinity is a little out of my reach right now :) A friend who shoots weddings has two of the D750's, they do seem top drawer! Thank you!
 
Tipnturn said:
rbmphoto said:
Bodies come and go, good glass makes a visible difference, and if it doesn't last forever, certainly outlives the useful life of most bodies - so put the bulk of your money there.

D610 an unsung hero, a bargain, and has outstanding low light performance - without an AA filter.

good luck!
Click to expand...
Yes, I keep thinking that looks like a lot of camera for the money right now, leaving cash in the bank for lenses, which will probably outlive the body! Do you own one?
Click to expand...
While I love my D610, I don't think I would use it for paid wedding work due to the sometimes struggling low light AF. The D750 is a much more trustworthy body for professional use. When you get paid for your photography, capturing the moment in focus is critical.

If you didn't have enough money for a D750 I'd understand, but if you can afford it, get the D750 instead. I have both and that's the body I trust the most.
 
No, I've got the D810, but would choose the 610 over the 750 even if the price was close. Just a fan of the sensor, and its lack of AA filter, I've just seen more great pics with it than the 750. The 750 may or may not be more rugged, does have a better AF module, although unless you are heavily into action shots, that likely will not be most significant, and as the pricing stands now, you'll have a lot more left in your pocket. Take a look at several sites that allow you to view photos from various bodies, you'll quickly appreciate the 610; also check out comparisons on dynamic range, you might be surprised.

Spend some time on this forum and others, you'll quickly realize that despite all the hoopla, bodies are a replaceable purchase, but great glass lasts through many, many bodies.

IMO, as long as the sensor is a good one (and the 610 has a very, very good one) spend your money on a long term item, better glass, it will make every shot through every body you use the lens on a better one.
 
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Dyun27 said:
Tipnturn said:
rbmphoto said:
Bodies come and go, good glass makes a visible difference, and if it doesn't last forever, certainly outlives the useful life of most bodies - so put the bulk of your money there.

D610 an unsung hero, a bargain, and has outstanding low light performance - without an AA filter.

good luck!
Click to expand...
Yes, I keep thinking that looks like a lot of camera for the money right now, leaving cash in the bank for lenses, which will probably outlive the body! Do you own one?
Click to expand...
While I love my D610, I don't think I would use it for paid wedding work due to the sometimes struggling low light AF. The D750 is a much more trustworthy body for professional use. When you get paid for your photography, capturing the moment in focus is critical.

If you didn't have enough money for a D750 I'd understand, but if you can afford it, get the D750 instead. I have both and that's the body I trust the most.

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Is it that bad? I used an EM-1 at a wedding recently and it was hard work in poor light, plus it routinely underexposes with a speedlight attached. It's about a £400 difference to go up to the D750...but you'd say it is worth it?
 
rbmphoto said:
No, I've got the D810, but would choose the 610 over the 750 even if the price was close. Just a fan of the sensor, and its lack of AA filter, I've just seen more great pics with it than the 750. The 750 may or may not be more rugged, does have a better AF module, although unless you are heavily into action shots, that likely will not be most significant, and as the pricing stands now, you'll have a lot more left in your pocket.

Spend some time on this forum and others, you'll quickly realize that despite all the hoopla, bodies are a replaceable purchase, but great glass lasts through many, many bodies.

IMO, as long as the sensor is a good one (and the 610 has a very, very good one) spend your money on a long term item, better glass, it will make every shot through every body you use the lens on a better one.
Click to expand...
Hi rbmphoto,

i thought the D610 did have an AA filter? I see what you're saying and it makes sense, I can invest in glass and in time probably a D810 with the D610 working as a second body...the difference between the two right now pays for that extra wide angle lens pretty much, so it is definitely a consideration...

I don't really do action photography, mostly events and houses for an income with landscapes and outdoors work for my own pleasure and to hopefully sell some prints...

Thanks for the reply!
 
Tipnturn said:
Is it that bad? I used an EM-1 at a wedding recently and it was hard work in poor light, plus it routinely underexposes with a speedlight attached. It's about a £400 difference to go up to the D750...but you'd say it is worth it?
Click to expand...
It's not -that- bad, but if you're photographing what is supposed be a once-in-a-lifetime event for someone, you want to be able to capture every important moment. I guess if the AF in your EM-1 didn't give you any problems and you're OK with -1EV low light focus sensitivity, you won't be unhappy with the D610, but the D750 offers 51AF points vs. 39 and all 51 points are supposed to focus down to -3EV in low light when using wide apertures from f/1.4 to f/2.8.

P.S. the D610 DOES have an AA filter. The D610 and D750 contain the same sensor, but the D610 has Expeed 3 and D750 has Expeed 4 processor. 24 megapixel full frame sensors need an AA filter, because the pixel density is too low and would create weird artifacts without it. Both cameras will deliver super sharp results when used with quality glass even though they have an AA filter.
 
Tipnturn said:
Dyun27 said:
Tipnturn said:
rbmphoto said:
Bodies come and go, good glass makes a visible difference, and if it doesn't last forever, certainly outlives the useful life of most bodies - so put the bulk of your money there.

D610 an unsung hero, a bargain, and has outstanding low light performance - without an AA filter.

good luck!
Click to expand...
Yes, I keep thinking that looks like a lot of camera for the money right now, leaving cash in the bank for lenses, which will probably outlive the body! Do you own one?
Click to expand...
While I love my D610, I don't think I would use it for paid wedding work due to the sometimes struggling low light AF. The D750 is a much more trustworthy body for professional use. When you get paid for your photography, capturing the moment in focus is critical.

If you didn't have enough money for a D750 I'd understand, but if you can afford it, get the D750 instead. I have both and that's the body I trust the most.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Actually, in fact it does have one - frequently described as not having one, or typically one described as "weak", it apparently is similar to the D800E, which was also described as not having a AA filter when it too in had a "weak" one. My understanding is that the modest filter in both just acts in one direction only.

When I bought the "E", I did so because in side by side comparisons, it was easy to determine which was the clearer image. I see similar differences between the 610 and the 750, in spite of those who claim the sensor is the same. The 800/800e sensor was definitely the same but for the filter and yet the image differences were readily apparent.

Actually, I preferred the image quality of the 800e to the 810, although the 810 is a better a better body. I think if you check the graphs, you may find that the 800e exceeds the 810 the same way the 610 meets or exceeds the 750. Do check several photo sites to compare images from both bodies with different photographers and different lens on different subjects, you'll get a feel for the image quality of each.

Not that the AA filter is a deal breaker, I certainly loved the images from my D3 and D700 which each had the filter. As I no longer am taking thousands of sports photos per month, my interest is prioritized on image quality over volume image capture, which is why I'd recommend the 610 over the 750, and in DX the 7200 over the 500.

Actually, if I had the 800E sensor/filter in the 810 body, I'd be an even happier camper. :)

Again, good luck and buy good glass!
 
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rbmphoto said:
D610 an unsung hero, a bargain, and has outstanding low light performance - without an AA filter.

good luck!
Click to expand...
Wrong. You're thinking of the D810. And while D610 low-light performance is good, it's previous generation AF system pales in comparison to the D750--especially in low light. Been there, done that, went with D750 instead. That's why most here, inc me, are recommending the D750 to the OP. It's just a better camera.
 
Go with the D750, and get the previous generation 24-70/2.8 Your low light autofocus performance will be much better than with the D610. I've shot with both--have a D610 as a backup/second shooter body--so I know.

And you are right: both have AA filters. But with good glass, like the 70-200/2.8 VRII used to take this 'scape of the CO Rockies, this makes little difference.

4bf0f19b38934ff59ab2951e549b0513.jpg

--
http://jamesmbailey.com
Stop Whining, Start Shooting
 
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Both are likely to be updated/replaced with months, in fact you may consider a used or refub body to get your feet wet in the Nikon world and develop your own opinion about the bodies' positives and negatives, and minimize the depreciation hit when new models come out.
 
rbmphoto said:
Actually, in fact it does have one - frequently described as not having one, or typically one described as "weak", it apparently is similar to the D800E, which was also described as not having a AA filter when it too in had a "weak" one. My understanding is that the modest filter in both just acts in one direction only.

When I bought the "E", I did so because in side by side comparisons, it was easy to determine which was the clearer image. I see similar differences between the 610 and the 750, in spite of those who claim the sensor is the same. The 800/800e sensor was definitely the same but for the filter and yet the image differences were readily apparent.

Actually, I preferred the image quality of the 800e to the 810, although the 810 is a better a better body. I think if you check the graphs, you may find that the 800e exceeds the 810 the same way the 610 meets or exceeds the 750. Do check several photo sites to compare images from both bodies with different photographers and different lens on different subjects, you'll get a feel for the image quality of each.

Not that the AA filter is a deal breaker, I certainly loved the images from my D3 and D700 which each had the filter. As I no longer am taking thousands of sports photos per month, my interest is prioritized on image quality over volume image capture, which is why I'd recommend the 610 over the 750, and in DX the 7200 over the 500.

Actually, if I had the 800E sensor/filter in the 810 body, I'd be an even happier camper. :)

Again, good luck and buy good glass!
Click to expand...
Very interesting!! You can see better images from the D610 than the D750?!?! Like you my priority is image quality first and foremost with the hope to add another body at some point soon too for the events work where two is defintely better than one!
 
historianx said:
Go with the D750, and get the previous generation 24-70/2.8 Your low light autofocus performance will be much better than with the D610. I've shot with both--have a D610 as a backup/second shooter body--so I know.

And you are right: both have AA filters. But with good glass, like the 70-200/2.8 VRII used to take this 'scape of the CO Rockies, this makes little difference.

4bf0f19b38934ff59ab2951e549b0513.jpg

--
http://jamesmbailey.com
Stop Whining, Start Shooting
Click to expand...
Excellent advice and lovely image! Thank you!
 
rbmphoto said:
Both are likely to be updated/replaced with months, in fact you may consider a used or refub body to get your feet wet in the Nikon world and develop your own opinion about the bodies' positives and negatives, and minimize the depreciation hit when new models come out.
Click to expand...
Ah I didn't realise, yes I'd been looking used, the D610 being quite the bargain for what it offers. That said, I'd prefer to concentrate on getting the right tool for the job...glass is key of course!
 
Landscape is your passion - get a D810. Refurb could save you some money, even low-mileage used.

For real estate, you can get a very inexpensive and very sharp Rokinon 14mm f/2.8. It is manual focus, but who cares when it's that wide, and houses don't move very fast.

I see no reason you can't use the D810 at weddings. I shoot a lot of bands on stage, and manage to focus just fine. And while it is overkill for events, it works fine.

24-70 f/2.8, previous generation, is fine for a lot of things - again, I'd suggest used. Except for low light, the kit lens 24-120mm f4 I found also to be a very nice and adequate lens, and can be had for a bargain refurb or used. I only swapped it for the 24-70 because I needed the f/2.8 for the on stage stuff.

For a cheap fast lens, a lot of people swear by the 50mm 1.8g. I wasn't really a fan - it's sharp, it's fine, it works, but didn't have a lot of character imo. But, if you're on a budget, it would probably do for some of the wedding stuff.
 
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