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The elephant in the room.

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Vlasty

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With all of the M5 vs A6500 talk going on I really wonder how big this news really will be.

The fact remains that the body only cost of the A6500 is 1400 us vs 1000 for the M5. That to me is significant. Sony is asking full frame money for an APS system．with very expensive glass.

Personaly all I think Canon will need to do is respond with an equally priced full frame mirrorless. Canon has shown the measures they are willing to take if threatened. Ie the original M and fire sales．it just depends on how Canon feels the sting of potential sales loss due ro the a6500．

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Vlasty said:
With all of the M5 vs A6500 talk going on I really wonder how big this news really will be.

The fact remains that the body only cost of the A6500 is 1400 us vs 1000 for the M5. That to me is significant. Sony is asking full frame money for an APS system．with very expensive glass.

Personaly all I think Canon will need to do is respond with an equally priced full frame mirrorless. Canon has shown the measures they are willing to take if threatened. Ie the original M and fire sales．it just depends on how Canon feels the sting of potential sales loss due ro the a6500．

https://www.flickr.com/photos/76058747@N07/
Click to expand...
Look at what you get for $400:

1. Class leading AF speed

2. IBIS (The only APS-c mirrorless as of now)

3. 4k video (hopefully refined being their second iteration with 4k) - now with S Log profile

4. 11fps with continuous AF

5. Increased durability (200k shutter life, weather resistance)

6. Insane buffer (100 Raw + Jpeg)

So is the A6500 expensive? Some will say yes, some will say it's justified, just the like M5. Personally, it's too much camera for me and I'm hoping the M5 will come down in price even before launch.
 
HaroldC3 said:
Vlasty said:
With all of the M5 vs A6500 talk going on I really wonder how big this news really will be.

The fact remains that the body only cost of the A6500 is 1400 us vs 1000 for the M5. That to me is significant. Sony is asking full frame money for an APS system．with very expensive glass.

Personaly all I think Canon will need to do is respond with an equally priced full frame mirrorless. Canon has shown the measures they are willing to take if threatened. Ie the original M and fire sales．it just depends on how Canon feels the sting of potential sales loss due ro the a6500．

https://www.flickr.com/photos/76058747@N07/
Click to expand...
Look at what you get for $400:

1. Class leading AF speed

2. IBIS (The only APS-c mirrorless as of now)

3. 4k video (hopefully refined being their second iteration with 4k) - now with S Log profile

4. 11fps with continuous AF

5. Increased durability (200k shutter life, weather resistance)

6. Insane buffer (100 Raw + Jpeg)

So is the A6500 expensive? Some will say yes, some will say it's justified, just the like M5. Personally, it's too much camera for me and I'm hoping the M5 will come down in price even before launch.
Click to expand...
Yes, it is not expensive at the plenty of features. But I do not need all of them. So, I will wait until the price is settled down.

Moreover, following Vlasty's idea, EOS 6D and EOS 7D2 are at the same price of $1500.

For Canon, to offer a entry level of FF mirrorless body looks easier than to offer a full-spec APS-C mirrorless body, when many cry for FF mirrorless body rather than flagship APS-C.
 
The way I see it is that the only defense Canon has against the A6500 is to lower the price of the M5 to somewhere between the A6300 and A6000. If they keep the body at $1,000 then many will opt for the A6500. Current Canon users will be drawn to the M5 but if they start shopping around I think many would pay the extra $400 and go with the A6500 for all it offers over the M5.
 
MikeJ9116 said:
The way I see it is that the only defense Canon has against the A6500 is to lower the price of the M5 to somewhere between the A6300 and A6000. If they keep the body at $1,000 then many will opt for the A6500. Current Canon users will be drawn to the M5 but if they start shopping around I think many would pay the extra $400 and go with the A6500 for all it offers over the M5.
Click to expand...
Things are heating up in the camera world and i canr help but think we are heading into the end gane．

It seems that Sony just threw all their cards on the taple with the a6300 with its feture set.

Canon still has plenty of cards but when will they play them is the queation?
 
Vlasty said:
MikeJ9116 said:
The way I see it is that the only defense Canon has against the A6500 is to lower the price of the M5 to somewhere between the A6300 and A6000. If they keep the body at $1,000 then many will opt for the A6500. Current Canon users will be drawn to the M5 but if they start shopping around I think many would pay the extra $400 and go with the A6500 for all it offers over the M5.
Click to expand...
Things are heating up in the camera world and i canr help but think we are heading into the end gane．

It seems that Sony just threw all their cards on the taple with the a6300 with its feture set.

Canon still has plenty of cards but when will they play them is the queation?
Click to expand...
 
MikeJ9116 said:
The way I see it is that the only defense Canon has against the A6500 is to lower the price of the M5 to somewhere between the A6300 and A6000. If they keep the body at $1,000 then many will opt for the A6500. Current Canon users will be drawn to the M5 but if they start shopping around I think many would pay the extra $400 and go with the A6500 for all it offers over the M5.
Click to expand...
Yes but I doubt Canon will do it.

I think the one saving grace for Canon is the EF adapter. If it was like Sony's (ugly, bulky and costly) adapter they would be doing worse I think.

Personally, if Sony offered a better, yet affordable non-FE telephoto lens I would strongly consider the lowly a6000.
 
HaroldC3 said:
MikeJ9116 said:
The way I see it is that the only defense Canon has against the A6500 is to lower the price of the M5 to somewhere between the A6300 and A6000. If they keep the body at $1,000 then many will opt for the A6500. Current Canon users will be drawn to the M5 but if they start shopping around I think many would pay the extra $400 and go with the A6500 for all it offers over the M5.
Click to expand...
Yes but I doubt Canon will do it.

I think the one saving grace for Canon is the EF adapter. If it was like Sony's (ugly, bulky and costly) adapter they would be doing worse I think.

Personally, if Sony offered a better, yet affordable non-FE telephoto lens I would strongly consider the lowly a6000.
Click to expand...
Over the next few months I will be contemplating hard over the A6500 and M5. Canon would make things much easier for me if they dropped the price of the M5 by $250-$300.
 
Vlasty said:
With all of the M5 vs A6500 talk going on I really wonder how big this news really will be.

The fact remains that the body only cost of the A6500 is 1400 us vs 1000 for the M5. That to me is significant. Sony is asking full frame money for an APS system．with very expensive glass.

Personaly all I think Canon will need to do is respond with an equally priced full frame mirrorless. Canon has shown the measures they are willing to take if threatened. Ie the original M and fire sales．it just depends on how Canon feels the sting of potential sales loss due ro the a6500．
Click to expand...
I wish the M5 had been worthy of a 1400 price tag. It would have been stupendous instead of just OK.

Still, there's always the M6...
 
Vlasty said:
With all of the M5 vs A6500 talk going on I really wonder how big this news really will be.
Click to expand...
Cheaper than Fuji XT2, and probably upcoming Oly EM1 MKII and Panny GH5. Those are the real competitors, not EM5.
Vlasty said:
The fact remains that the body only cost of the A6500 is 1400 us vs 1000 for the M5. That to me is significant. Sony is asking full frame money for an APS system．with very expensive glass.
Click to expand...
It is very close to A7II price so I do wonder why you would buy the 6500 when the A7II is much more user friendly. Maybe as more compact addition to A7 series camera for those who can afford it.
Vlasty said:
Personaly all I think Canon will need to do is respond with an equally priced full frame mirrorless. Canon has shown the measures they are willing to take if threatened. Ie the original M and fire sales．it just depends on how Canon feels the sting of potential sales loss due ro the a6500．
Click to expand...
Don't hold your breath for FF mirrorless. I think if it ever comes it will be many many years. Canons idea of high end camera is the 5D MKIV, not anything mirrorless.
Vlasty said:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/76058747@N07/
Click to expand...
 
jwilliams said:
Vlasty said:
With all of the M5 vs A6500 talk going on I really wonder how big this news really will be.
Click to expand...
Cheaper than Fuji XT2, and probably upcoming Oly EM1 MKII and Panny GH5. Those are the real competitors, not EM5.
jwilliams said:
The fact remains that the body only cost of the A6500 is 1400 us vs 1000 for the M5. That to me is significant. Sony is asking full frame money for an APS system．with very expensive glass.
Click to expand...
It is very close to A7II price so I do wonder why you would buy the 6500 when the A7II is much more user friendly. Maybe as more compact addition to A7 series camera for those who can afford it.
Click to expand...
Sony is a bit lacking in the ergonomics department in my opinion but other folks may disagree. I think the A7II is fairly irrelevant compared to the A6500 spec and IQ wise.
jwilliams said:
jwilliams said:
Personaly all I think Canon will need to do is respond with an equally priced full frame mirrorless. Canon has shown the measures they are willing to take if threatened. Ie the original M and fire sales．it just depends on how Canon feels the sting of potential sales loss due ro the a6500．
Click to expand...
Don't hold your breath for FF mirrorless. I think if it ever comes it will be many many years. Canons idea of high end camera is the 5D MKIV, not anything mirrorless.
jwilliams said:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/76058747@N07/
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Yes that elephant in the room is my beloved younger sister, so she is a little big but she is sweet and loving & too good for the lot of you !

She can change, lose weight but can you guys become nice humans as easily - nope !

So leave her size alone & out of the discussion !

OR I will have to come settle this name calling - the hard bloody way, you want to learn to pee in a bag !!

;)
 
HaroldC3 said:
Vlasty said:
With all of the M5 vs A6500 talk going on I really wonder how big this news really will be.

The fact remains that the body only cost of the A6500 is 1400 us vs 1000 for the M5. That to me is significant. Sony is asking full frame money for an APS system．with very expensive glass.

Personaly all I think Canon will need to do is respond with an equally priced full frame mirrorless. Canon has shown the measures they are willing to take if threatened. Ie the original M and fire sales．it just depends on how Canon feels the sting of potential sales loss due ro the a6500．

https://www.flickr.com/photos/76058747@N07/
Click to expand...
Look at what you get for $400:

1. Class leading AF speed

2. IBIS (The only APS-c mirrorless as of now)

3. 4k video (hopefully refined being their second iteration with 4k) - now with S Log profile

4. 11fps with continuous AF

5. Increased durability (200k shutter life, weather resistance)

6. Insane buffer (100 Raw + Jpeg)

So is the A6500 expensive? Some will say yes, some will say it's justified, just the like M5. Personally, it's too much camera for me and I'm hoping the M5 will come down in price even before launch.
Click to expand...
+Silent shutter and e shutter speed >1/4000
 
Vlasty said:
The fact remains that the body only cost of the A6500 is 1400 us vs 1000 for the M5. That to me is significant. Sony is asking full frame money for an APS system．with very expensive glass.
Click to expand...
The 16-70 "kit lens" that Sony depicts with the a6500 is an additional US$1,000.
 
Vlasty said:
With all of the M5 vs A6500 talk going on I really wonder how big this news really will be.

The fact remains that the body only cost of the A6500 is 1400 us vs 1000 for the M5. That to me is significant. Sony is asking full frame money for an APS system．with very expensive glass.

Personaly all I think Canon will need to do is respond with an equally priced full frame mirrorless. Canon has shown the measures they are willing to take if threatened. Ie the original M and fire sales．it just depends on how Canon feels the sting of potential sales loss due ro the a6500．

https://www.flickr.com/photos/76058747@N07/
Click to expand...
As I am not a video guy at all and prefer the central EVF form factor, topped off by the price difference, the Canon gets my vote.
 
Vlasty said:
With all of the M5 vs A6500 talk going on I really wonder how big this news really will be.

The fact remains that the body only cost of the A6500 is 1400 us vs 1000 for the M5. That to me is significant. Sony is asking full frame money for an APS system．with very expensive glass.

Personaly all I think Canon will need to do is respond with an equally priced full frame mirrorless. Canon has shown the measures they are willing to take if threatened. Ie the original M and fire sales．it just depends on how Canon feels the sting of potential sales loss due ro the a6500．

https://www.flickr.com/photos/76058747@N07/
Click to expand...
If you are worried about the elephant in the room, then the salient feature for choosing the best camera is an affordable, extreme wide angle, native lens.

Not sure that either camera is suitable to capture the pachyderm in question here...
 
I also took a look at the A6500 system, and the lens selection seems very limited and expensive. Other than a couple of L tele lens left over from film days, I don't see my self buying full frame lens for APSC sensors. Also, don't see the need for full frame camera for my needs. Limited budget for basically a hobby.

Greg
 
jwilliams said:
Don't hold your breath for FF mirrorless. I think if it ever comes it will be many many years. Canons idea of high end camera is the 5D MKIV, not anything mirrorless.
Click to expand...
 
Vlasty said:
With all of the M5 vs A6500 talk going on I really wonder how big this news really will be.

The fact remains that the body only cost of the A6500 is 1400 us vs 1000 for the M5. That to me is significant. Sony is asking full frame money for an APS system．with very expensive glass.

Personaly all I think Canon will need to do is respond with an equally priced full frame mirrorless. Canon has shown the measures they are willing to take if threatened. Ie the original M and fire sales．it just depends on how Canon feels the sting of potential sales loss due ro the a6500．

https://www.flickr.com/photos/76058747@N07/
Click to expand...
For all the talk, I don't see these cameras as competing with each other.

I rejected the XT-2 simply because A) the body cost more than I wanted to spend on a body, and 2) the lenses that I find appealing are similarly expensive. Pretty much the same applies to the Sony, except that I much prefer the look of the Fuji. (In other words, if I chose to commit that kind of cash, I'd go with Fuji.)

As for Canon, I think all they have to do is introduce a few more cheap, reasonably fast primes, say a 16mm and a portrait, and they'd be set.
 
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