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Lens described as excellent on ebay has lots of haze? :(

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if you look closely, it's a crosshatch pattern, it looks like someone took an abrasive material to a couple of different layers of glass, maybe it's a disassembly and failed cleaning attempt?

if it's oil you'll want something like ror and kimwipes, because ror has a surfactant that lifts oil, the alcohol-only cleaners don't work nearly as well for oil, use them after the ror cleaning... see the ror msds: http://www.ror.net/product/material-safety-data-sheet/

if you are going to be buying legacy lenses, you really need some cheap tools for disassembly and cleaning.

my go/no go on something like this is to first test for decentering/soft sides, if it's weak on a side, i'm not going to gamble with disassembly in order to clean, it goes back.
FrantikChicken said:
4faf7905060441e5927bf75875a0bcd0.jpg

My question is, do I have to pay the return shipping now? I'm seriously annoyed by this. I hate dealing with having to ship such a fragile item.
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--
dan
 
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FrantikChicken said:
Whew that looks like an absolute disaster!
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I think that it slipped through the vendor's net. Might have been a reseller. I am not sure but I think that the aperture had been coaxed wide open to hide the broken mounts. As soon as I opened it to check it out the blades went as shown but were not noticed immediately. Then one thing after another showed that it had been "attacked" by an amateur "repairman" and then when it became a disaster the damage was covered up and the lens dumped on a hapless third party. A party unfortuately that had not properly checked it before reselling. I give the presumption of doubt.

I have had my purchase price refunded as it was not worth shipping back and it will be a few happy hours of further practice to see if I can make something out of what is currently a sow's ear. Not a given that I can actually fix it and that lock screw will have to be drilled out and getting those helicoid drives back into their correct combination requires patience taken to the very borders of insanity.

If I can fix the lens I will have earned it. But in the meantime it goes into my "rogues box".
 
osv said:
if you look closely, it's a crosshatch pattern, it looks like someone took an abrasive material to a couple of different layers of glass, maybe it's a disassembly and failed cleaning attempt?

if it's oil you'll want something like ror and kimwipes, because ror has a surfactant that lifts oil, the alcohol-only cleaners don't work nearly as well for oil, use them after the ror cleaning... see the ror msds: http://www.ror.net/product/material-safety-data-sheet/

if you are going to be buying legacy lenses, you really need some cheap tools for disassembly and cleaning.

my go/no go on something like this is to first test for decentering/soft sides, if it's weak on a side, i'm not going to gamble with disassembly in order to clean, it goes back.
FrantikChicken said:
My question is, do I have to pay the return shipping now? I'm seriously annoyed by this. I hate dealing with having to ship such a fragile item.
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ProfHankD said:
FrantikChicken said:
hmm, what do you reckon it may be? I have limited experience with old lenses and it looked closest to haze from searching on the net.
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Ok, I'll play name that defect. My guess would be light oil.

Most commonly on old USSR lenses, the grease used to lube the focus separates over time into gummy stuff and light oil... and the light oil will flow all over the place. Most likely, it flowed over the aperture blades and then spattered onto an adjacent element. If the blades don't look oily, somebody probably opened it and dabbed-off the oil... and perhaps wiped the element, leaving the swirly pattern.

Oddly, a layer of oil like that has very little impact on image quality. I have a Helios 44M-7 that had an oily fingerprint on the element in front of the aperture blades, and it out-resolves my 44M-4 both before and after I cleaned the 44M-7. The biggest IQ change was that the bokeh showed an interesting "bubbly" pattern before cleaning -- the OOF PSF had little circles where each dot of oil was:

8d6e4bb6c39649eba185ce2c98a9a289.jpg.png

Notice the slight swirl -- which was from somebody trying to wipe-off the light oil (obviously before they left their fingerprint). BTW, I measure OOF PSF by simply photographing a white LED in a dark room from a distance of 10M with the lens focus set at 1-2M, at widest aperture, and exposure adjusted to show detail within the spot.

After I cleaned it, this lens still leaks oil, but so far hasn't done any more harm to the glass. It simply has a little oil visible on the aperture blades.
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I agree. I am becoming a lens "repairman" by default. Self taught by necessity as if you buy many lenses there are bound to be some that are not perfect. I have even bought a few recently with noted defects in the hope that I can repair them. Can be practical if the skills have become good enough. Some "defect" lenses are "easy fix" others are rubbish.

Some lenses described as defective are not disasters but others which are disasters are being offered at silly (high) prices when they are really just useful as parts. Almost any lens repair involves intuition, acquired experience, a huge amount of patience, and good tools. Don't forget the good memory for disassembly as you will need it to be able to put it all back together. Best done in a single session. Leave it a week and you will have forgotten how it was done.

I will add another possible reason for oil residue on lens.

Cleaning aperture blades can only prpoerly be done by full disassembly - something that I have not even attempted despite my growing experience. The usual alternative is flood cleaning. I have also never done this but prefer to carefully dab lighter fluid on the affected blades with a small soft paint brush (from both sides). To to this effectively it has to be repeated until the blades are completely clean - there is some spatter. Either flood cleaning or dab-cleaning requires the lens elements to be removed completely and far away from the action. If the lens elements are not isolated or if left in the lens then there is every possibility that oil ladel spatter will cover the inner surface of lenses - it might be very difficult to get all oil traces back off even with an apparent thorough clean.

--
Tom Caldwell
 
if the aperture is open all the way, you can usually reach through the hole with a kimwipe to clean splatter from the next lens group, but it doesn't work as well as simply removing all of the lens groups from the barrel to begin with.

the two glass surfaces facing the blades will usually have dust or haze on 'em, since they aren't sealed, so if you can only pull the glass from one end it'll be helpful for cleaning both interior glass surfaces.

for $700 i wouldn't gamble on that lens either, i'm rather shocked that the vendor would send something like that out in the first place... he should pay the entire postal cost to return it.
 
FrantikChicken said:
Tom Caldwell said:
FrantikChicken said:
Tons o Glass 0 Class said:
If it arrived not as described then they are responsible for the return shipping costs. They are at fault; you are not. Alternatively, you could see how much it costs to get it cleaned and then work out a partial refund to cover the cost of the cleaning (and for the inconvenience caused).

Aside from the partial internal haze (shap ed like a swipe of a cleaning cloth) it looks pretty nice, so I would be inclined to aim for a partial refund if I were you.
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The lens is otherwise in absolutely like-new condition. There's not a single scratch or ding on it cosmetically! That's what makes it even more frustrating hahah.

The reduction in cost to get it fixed up sounds enticing, but the only service place close to me charges something like $25 just to have a look at the lens, and then about a week later they send a quote for the actual repair cost. There might be others who can give me an estimate right away but they're not close to me and it would probably take me over an hour each way with public transit.

As for the return shipping, that makes sense. I already messaged the seller and they got back to me very quickly saying the following, but since I never ship things, It's not very clear to me if they expect me to pay for shipping and the insurance...:

I read your messsage and understood the lens has something wrong.
This message is to inform you how to send the item back.
We apologize for your inconvenience.
Please follow the procedure bellow;

1) Pack the item well and safe.
2) Bring it to Post Office (Please do not use FEDEX nor DHL, we can not accept them.)
3) Ask them for shipping label and fill in as following;
...
Note: Please do write "Returned" to avoid customs mistakenly imposed. Also Please add insurance of our trade price.

4) Then you can send it back to us.

5) After receiving the item, we will reimburse your payment through "Paypal". Please do not worry.
Click to expand...
From Hong Kong?

Beware! There is a scam going when you send the item back and never collect it. If you are lucky it will arrive back as a not claimed item in its original packaging.

By that stage you will have exceeded your money back guarantees form eBay and Paypal.

Don't mess around - lodge a misdescribed article claim with eBay straight away.

You can still sort it out with the vendor after lodging a claim..
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
The seller has a 100% rating and wants to keep it at 100% if he/she is a motivated seller.

I have found sellers quite reasonable and accommodating to maintain their good rating.

If it's a newer seller especially because they want to get their good number up so people buy their stuff.

Contact the seller and assume the best

If the seller balks, make your case and indicate that you do leave feedback. Just be frank and honest - no cussing ever.

Then escalate this as you go.

FrantikChicken said:
I just received a Contax Zeiss 85mm 1.4 from a Japanese Ebay seller with a 100% rating. They described the lens as follows:

Optics:
- No scratch, No haze, No fungus, No separation.
- There is a little dust that will not affect photo quality at all.

But unfortunately that is not the case at all. I am so disappointed because cosmetically the lens is absolutely MINT and I paid over $700CDN for it. Here's a photo:

4faf7905060441e5927bf75875a0bcd0.jpg

My question is, do I have to pay the return shipping now? I'm seriously annoyed by this. I hate dealing with having to ship such a fragile item.
Click to expand...


--
" LIFE is what happens while you're busy making other plans "
.... John Lennon
.
Lenses ? - I do have a few - and a few, I don't know I have, as well :)
 
FrantikChicken said:
Well I asked about the shipping as well and they said they'll pay that when they get the lens, I just need to send them the receipt. I guess I was freaking out a bit prematurely since I've seldom dealt with ebay.

Now the question is...should I bid for another or not? I've been testing the lens a bunch, and unless this haze is severely ruining the performance, wide open it's not as sharp as my brother's Rokinon and has a lot more of that purple fringing going on. It feels much nicer physically and I mainly bought it because I can also mount it on my Yashica film camera, but now I'm wondering if it's worth the extra $300 for that.
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This is, of course, a question of personal preference. The fact is the Rokinon has been very favorably compared to modern Zeiss 85mm lenses:

Loading…

www.fredmiranda.com

Loading…

www.dpreview.com

So you might want to save a few dollars and buy the Rokinon. Fact is, if you turn out not liking it, you can probably re-sell it for close to what you paid.
 
heatherc said:
FrantikChicken said:
Tom Caldwell said:
FrantikChicken said:
Tons o Glass 0 Class said:
If it arrived not as described then they are responsible for the return shipping costs. They are at fault; you are not. Alternatively, you could see how much it costs to get it cleaned and then work out a partial refund to cover the cost of the cleaning (and for the inconvenience caused).

Aside from the partial internal haze (shap ed like a swipe of a cleaning cloth) it looks pretty nice, so I would be inclined to aim for a partial refund if I were you.
Click to expand...
The lens is otherwise in absolutely like-new condition. There's not a single scratch or ding on it cosmetically! That's what makes it even more frustrating hahah.

The reduction in cost to get it fixed up sounds enticing, but the only service place close to me charges something like $25 just to have a look at the lens, and then about a week later they send a quote for the actual repair cost. There might be others who can give me an estimate right away but they're not close to me and it would probably take me over an hour each way with public transit.

As for the return shipping, that makes sense. I already messaged the seller and they got back to me very quickly saying the following, but since I never ship things, It's not very clear to me if they expect me to pay for shipping and the insurance...:

I read your messsage and understood the lens has something wrong.
This message is to inform you how to send the item back.
We apologize for your inconvenience.
Please follow the procedure bellow;

1) Pack the item well and safe.
2) Bring it to Post Office (Please do not use FEDEX nor DHL, we can not accept them.)
3) Ask them for shipping label and fill in as following;
...
Note: Please do write "Returned" to avoid customs mistakenly imposed. Also Please add insurance of our trade price.

4) Then you can send it back to us.

5) After receiving the item, we will reimburse your payment through "Paypal". Please do not worry.
Click to expand...
From Hong Kong?

Beware! There is a scam going when you send the item back and never collect it. If you are lucky it will arrive back as a not claimed item in its original packaging.

By that stage you will have exceeded your money back guarantees form eBay and Paypal.

Don't mess around - lodge a misdescribed article claim with eBay straight away.

You can still sort it out with the vendor after lodging a claim..
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
ShutterNot said:
The seller has a 100% rating and wants to keep it at 100% if he/she is a motivated seller.

I have found sellers quite reasonable and accommodating to maintain their good rating.

If it's a newer seller especially because they want to get their good number up so people buy their stuff.

Contact the seller and assume the best

If the seller balks, make your case and indicate that you do leave feedback. Just be frank and honest - no cussing ever.

Then escalate this as you go.
FrantikChicken said:
I just received a Contax Zeiss 85mm 1.4 from a Japanese Ebay seller with a 100% rating. They described the lens as follows:

Optics:
- No scratch, No haze, No fungus, No separation.
- There is a little dust that will not affect photo quality at all.

But unfortunately that is not the case at all. I am so disappointed because cosmetically the lens is absolutely MINT and I paid over $700CDN for it. Here's a photo:

4faf7905060441e5927bf75875a0bcd0.jpg

My question is, do I have to pay the return shipping now? I'm seriously annoyed by this. I hate dealing with having to ship such a fragile item.
Click to expand...
--
" LIFE is what happens while you're busy making other plans "
.... John Lennon
.
Lenses ? - I do have a few - and a few, I don't know I have, as well :)
Click to expand...
They've been understanding and responsive so far, but I won't be fully at ease until all my money is back, especially since the return shipping has so far cost me around $100CDN

--

George Nikolov | Flickr

www.flickr.com www.flickr.com
 
SLN001 said:
FrantikChicken said:
Well I asked about the shipping as well and they said they'll pay that when they get the lens, I just need to send them the receipt. I guess I was freaking out a bit prematurely since I've seldom dealt with ebay.

Now the question is...should I bid for another or not? I've been testing the lens a bunch, and unless this haze is severely ruining the performance, wide open it's not as sharp as my brother's Rokinon and has a lot more of that purple fringing going on. It feels much nicer physically and I mainly bought it because I can also mount it on my Yashica film camera, but now I'm wondering if it's worth the extra $300 for that.
Click to expand...
This is, of course, a question of personal preference. The fact is the Rokinon has been very favorably compared to modern Zeiss 85mm lenses:

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1005038

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/54707660

So you might want to save a few dollars and buy the Rokinon. Fact is, if you turn out not liking it, you can probably re-sell it for close to what you paid.
Click to expand...
 
FrantikChicken said:
They've been understanding and responsive so far, but I won't be fully at ease until all my money is back, especially since the return shipping has so far cost me around $100CDN

--
Click to expand...
Fingers crossed that this turns out to be a decent seller and you do get the return postage costs back. If you'd raised the "not as described" ticket before you sent it then they'd have had to pay the return costs - but you know that now! Some sellers have it fixed in their heads that they aren't responsible for the cost of return postage, but if the item is not as described or not working then they certainly are. Good luck and let us know how it goes!
 
They've accepted my request for return so it's now officially in eBay's system! I'll send them the tracking number and a photo of the shipping receipt and it should all be good :)
 
FrantikChicken said:
They've accepted my request for return so it's now officially in eBay's system! I'll send them the tracking number and a photo of the shipping receipt and it should all be good :)
Click to expand...
 
FrantikChicken said:
heatherc said:
FrantikChicken said:
Tom Caldwell said:
FrantikChicken said:
Tons o Glass 0 Class said:
If it arrived not as described then they are responsible for the return shipping costs. They are at fault; you are not. Alternatively, you could see how much it costs to get it cleaned and then work out a partial refund to cover the cost of the cleaning (and for the inconvenience caused).

Aside from the partial internal haze (shap ed like a swipe of a cleaning cloth) it looks pretty nice, so I would be inclined to aim for a partial refund if I were you.
Click to expand...
The lens is otherwise in absolutely like-new condition. There's not a single scratch or ding on it cosmetically! That's what makes it even more frustrating hahah.

The reduction in cost to get it fixed up sounds enticing, but the only service place close to me charges something like $25 just to have a look at the lens, and then about a week later they send a quote for the actual repair cost. There might be others who can give me an estimate right away but they're not close to me and it would probably take me over an hour each way with public transit.

As for the return shipping, that makes sense. I already messaged the seller and they got back to me very quickly saying the following, but since I never ship things, It's not very clear to me if they expect me to pay for shipping and the insurance...:

I read your messsage and understood the lens has something wrong.
This message is to inform you how to send the item back.
We apologize for your inconvenience.
Please follow the procedure bellow;

1) Pack the item well and safe.
2) Bring it to Post Office (Please do not use FEDEX nor DHL, we can not accept them.)
3) Ask them for shipping label and fill in as following;
...
Note: Please do write "Returned" to avoid customs mistakenly imposed. Also Please add insurance of our trade price.

4) Then you can send it back to us.

5) After receiving the item, we will reimburse your payment through "Paypal". Please do not worry.
Click to expand...
From Hong Kong?

Beware! There is a scam going when you send the item back and never collect it. If you are lucky it will arrive back as a not claimed item in its original packaging.

By that stage you will have exceeded your money back guarantees form eBay and Paypal.

Don't mess around - lodge a misdescribed article claim with eBay straight away.

You can still sort it out with the vendor after lodging a claim..
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Tom Caldwell said:
I have also told eBay (probably fruitlessly) that I am not willing to ship any purchase back to the vendor.
Click to expand...
EBay requires you to return the item (or at least to prove that you have attempted to return it by uploading a tracking number or similar). Otherwise the vendor is down both money AND item, which is hardly fair if they decide they do actually want it back. Now I'm quite sure you aren't one of them, but there do exist unscrupulous BUYERS as well as sellers, who will try to claim the (perfectly good) item was broken or didn't work, keep it and get a refund too. EBay only works if both sides play by the rules :)

--
Heather
The best picture you'll ever take is just around the corner...
 
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heatherc said:
Tom Caldwell said:
I have also told eBay (probably fruitlessly) that I am not willing to ship any purchase back to the vendor.
Click to expand...
EBay requires you to return the item (or at least to prove that you have attempted to return it by uploading a tracking number or similar). Otherwise the vendor is down both money AND item, which is hardly fair if they decide they do actually want it back. Now I'm quite sure you aren't one of them, but there do exist unscrupulous BUYERS as well as sellers, who will try to claim the (perfectly good) item was broken or didn't work, keep it and get a refund too. EBay only works if both sides play by the rules :)
Click to expand...
Yes I agree. This one was truly broken and I had the images to prove it and made them available to eBay - I would be very surprised that any vendor worth their pre-listing check could have missed them. Not declared in the sales speil is a serious issue.

I can only charitibly assume that the vendor was conned as much as I was as it was possible with some ingenuity to coax the aperture blades wide open and hidden but just as soon as the aperture is worked they fall out in a messy heap. Closer inspection showed a bodgy disassembly attempt and the remaining fact was that the lens was an oddball and hard to sell even in as new condition (what I had expected to see).

Not worth returning and the vendor agreed. And yes, if I use some acquired skills and spend a day on the job I might just be able to make a serviceable repair to a lens that is not worth a lot anyway. I think I might have then have earned my windfall - there is no guarantee that I can in fact repair it. Furthermore the vendor would have been wiser to have made a proper inspection before listing a lens that was so obviously broken. Scratches on parts, aperture blades hanging out, broken screw head and faulty registration distances were very obvious - a mechanical wreck.

Australian tracking numbers supplied only work inside Australia (!) and as a result it cannot be proved that the vendor has received the returned goods (only that "something" has been shipped) - certain Hong Kong vendors are piteously begging for faulty goods to be returned promising to pay return freight and then (apparently) supplying an incorrect return address. In any case they fail both to pay or to collect the returned parcel - eBay gets the humps as they cannot follow the tracking and their insured time limit expires. A couple of months later the returned goods can turn up again as "not collected".

I pay up front to buy I cannot see why vendors cannot refund up fornt when their product is patently obviously fault or misrepresented. My feedback record as a purchaser is unblemished.

Therefore rogue buyers are complemented by rogue sellers and the eBay securty system can break down in the process.

Honesty on all sides helps. I recently refunded the refunds given to me by two overseas vendors when their shipments finally turned up. One of them sent on 6 June 2016 finally arrived in excellent order on 19 September - well after my money had been voluntarily refunded by an honest Russian vendor. I can only repond in similar honest manner.
 
Next time she poses for you make sure that she has her legs positioned better and is making the hitch-hiking signal more obvious. You are one "stop" shot of a winner there :)
 
Tom Caldwell said:
Next time she poses for you make sure that she has her legs positioned better and is making the hitch-hiking signal more obvious. You are one "stop" shot of a winner there :)
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