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Dwelling on going Sigma 150-600mm Sport to Nikon 200-500mm
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GlobalGuyUSA
Senior Member
Very interested to see how the NEW Tamron 160-600 VC G2 will perform!
nbirkett
Senior Member
The replies are getting to nested to make sense so I've just pulled out these two lines. I also the error which reported the Nikon as the 200-500 while it should have been the 200-400.
The single t-stop number reported here and by DxO is not a fair representation of the transmission properties of different lenses. This number is an average of the t-stops across the range of focal lengths for the lens. For a variable aperture lens, even if the transmission were 100%, the reported t-stop number will be somewhere between the widest and smallest aperture. So, the Sigma 150-600 is an f5 to f6.3 lens. With 100% transmission, the summary t-stop number is going to be somewhere between 5 and 6.3 The Nikon 200-400 is a constant aperture f4 lens and so, with 100% transmission, the t-stop summary will be 4.0. This gives an unfair measure of the ability of a lens to transmit light since it confounds transmission with the range of apertures provided at different focal lengths.
The DxO site gives a graph which shows the difference in EV between the t-stop and the f-stop for each focal length. This is a much better comparison. For these two lenes, the Nikon 200-400 loses 0.6 EV from the nomihal f-stop shown in the aperture readings while the Sigma loses about 0.4 EV. For both lenses, these losses are essentially constant across all focal lengths. This would suggest, if anything, that the Sigma 150-600 has better light transmission than the Nikon 200-400.
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Nick
Kris in CT
Senior Member
Those numbers are actually the 500 F4 VR-G. I guessed he looked at the 200-400, but then I made another post when I realized it was the 500..
The 200-400 is actually T4.9 and 22 P-mpix on a d810..
I cannot comment on the Sigma 150-600 C as I have never used it, but I do have the 200-500 and I am always impressed with it, it's a remarkably good lens. However, I am waiting to see how the new Tamron 150-600 is as I may buy that. If the new published mtf's are as good as they seem to be, then it could be a real winner. I would seriously wait until the new Tamron emerges just to see whether it is as good or better than the Nikon and then you have an extra 100mm at the long end and 50mm at the short end.
GlobalGuyUSA
Senior Member
Sorry, Nick -- and I can't edit it either, after a certain period of time. Nothing to do but note the correction. Regards.
nbirkett
Senior Member
No worries. I wasn't trying to 'correct' the wrong numbers (you had already addressed that). But, to be clear, the numbers in my main post (not the quoted part at the top) were for the 200-500 f4.
However, I was trying make the point that a single t-stop measure is not a good way to compare the transmission ability of a lens since that number combines the transmission properties and the variable aperture limits. The single t-stop can compare two lenses as to which is more able to shoot on poor light. But, it doesn't tell you why one lens is better.
Boys, on Tuesday Sigma will present the new 500 mm f4 flagship...I cannot wait to see how it performs, this is huge for all wildlife shooters. If it is sharp at f4, costing 40% less than the Canikon, this is going to be another game changer, finally some decent competition in that segment of the market.
GlobalGuyUSA
Senior Member
Sigma already has a 500/4.5, which is $5,000, on sale currently for $4,000. What do you think the price of an even brighter f/4 + OS + "ART" (sharpness you crave) version will be? Do you think they'll stick to the $5,000 number? Or is this going to bring it closer to $7,000?
This would be a game-changer, only for anyone looking for a $5,000+ lens -- mainly if its sharp at f/4 and for the OS, not really for the price, since they had the previous lens already, it just wasn't up to snuff. I'm not sure this new lens is even relevant to the conversation [not that it shouldn't be mentioned, of course] about the $1000~$2000 dollar 200-500/5.6 VR or the 150-600 Sig-mron offerings, except the few who are ready to invest $6,000+, when a "decent" $2000 option exists.
If Sigma could somehow bring the price down to $3,000, I think it would find exponentially more buyers. Not that I expect it to happen. At $4,000+, I'm guessing the majority of the market for that lens suddenly looks back at the SPORT-zoom.
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Sincerely,
GlobalGuy
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earthbound_ca
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Hey bud!
Understanding the super-tele prime lens market is smaller than ever due to the success of the tele-zooms, I think a LOT of people -- regardless of price -- will consider a full-featured prime from Sigma considering what Sigma has done with the ART series. Add to the fact that -- I assume -- you'll have upgradable firmware and an interchangeable mount (Canon, Nikon...), a shooter would be stupid to NOT consider it.
Unlike their zooms that turn the other ways (good for Canon, not for Nikon) and that in-camera lens profiles will be unavailable, this is a prime so even those objections are moot. And, of course, this lens adds OS. Regarding price, Sigma won't have to discount this lens anywhere near the discount on the EX DG HSM f/4.5 version. Although Sigma's ART lenses aren't cheap, they certainly offer tremendous value vs Nikon/Canon alternatives. I suspect this lens will be just a bit cheaper than Nikon/Canon alternatives and significantly more expensive than the 4.5 version. At least, that's my perspective.
I had the 4.5 version; it was great in its day. Without these upgrades (upgradeable firmware minimum/ interchangeable mount... even better/ OS), I wouldn't consider Sigma so they're bringing themselves back into the market kicking and screaming! Regardless of price, Nikon and Canon have a lot to lose if this lens is optically spectacular... which Sigma has demonstrated they can achieve.
Cheers.
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Kris in CT
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earthbound_ca
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I agree with you. I'll just add that if the snobs can't look past the brand, they're the ones missing out. There is no shortage of fine shooters in these forums who have adopted selected mid/high-end 3rd party glass and are enamored with it... and it's not all Zeiss! lol Cheers.
Iain G Foulds
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If priced new at six kilobucks, the new Sigma 500mm f/4 will certainly get some interest. If about 1.5 lbs lighter (as rumored) than the Nikon G ED VR version, that could turn some heads among those loyal to the Nikon brand. The key, however, is that the new Sigma needs to be sharp wide open, and have nimble accurate autofocus. If in-the-field reviews indicate the new Sigma needs to closed down a bit for maximum sharpness, if the AF is a bit lazy or inaccurate, photographers would have good reason to bear the burden of some extra weight to get a good used copy of the G ED VR.I actually think this lens will be amazing and come in around 6k US. I think Sigma might be too late to the party on this one though. Canon 500 F4 IS 1 and Nikon 500 F4 VR-G prices have softened quite a bit on the used market and I see them quite often around 4k... I'm not a brand snob, but many people are and they will probably go for used OEM lenses over a new third party, no matter how good it will be.. And knowing what Sigma and Tamron have done lately, this lens will probably be as sharp as the newest V2 OEM lenses.. Just my humble opinion..Hey bud!
Understanding the super-tele prime lens market is smaller than ever due to the success of the tele-zooms, I think a LOT of people -- regardless of price -- will consider a full-featured prime from Sigma considering what Sigma has done with the ART series. Add to the fact that -- I assume -- you'll have upgradable firmware and an interchangeable mount (Canon, Nikon...), a shooter would be stupid to NOT consider it.
Unlike their zooms that turn the other ways (good for Canon, not for Nikon) and that in-camera lens profiles will be unavailable, this is a prime so even those objections are moot. And, of course, this lens adds OS. Regarding price, Sigma won't have to discount this lens anywhere near the discount on the EX DG HSM f/4.5 version. Although Sigma's ART lenses aren't cheap, they certainly offer tremendous value vs Nikon/Canon alternatives. I suspect this lens will be just a bit cheaper than Nikon/Canon alternatives and significantly more expensive than the 4.5 version. At least, that's my perspective.
I had the 4.5 version; it was great in its day. Without these upgrades (upgradeable firmware minimum/ interchangeable mount... even better/ OS), I wouldn't consider Sigma so they're bringing themselves back into the market kicking and screaming! Regardless of price, Nikon and Canon have a lot to lose if this lens is optically spectacular... which Sigma has demonstrated they can achieve.
Cheers.
--
My sober voyage into bird photography
http://www.tamron-usa.com/enews/archives/2015/jan_rowe.php
https://500px.com/coastalconn
http://www.facebook.com/KristoferRowePhotography
http://www.flickr.com/photos/coastalconn
Personally, I'm banking on a very solid performer. That would be my hope, at least. A home run should drive prices for used G ED VRs a bit lower.
--
Bill Ferris Photography
Flagstaff, AZ
http://www.billferris.photoshelter.com
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Kris in CT
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Iain G Foulds
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... Kris: Tamron has tasted market leadership with the MK1. They will make no mistakes in retaking their position with the MK2. The Nikon and Sigmas will be left behind.
Old Greenlander
Senior Member
tektrader
Senior Member
Just DONT. I have had both and there is little to no difference between them. In all honesty the ability to tweak the lens AF with the dock is worth more....to me.
I have the Nikon now and should have kept the Sigma..
I have the Nikon now and should have kept the Sigma..
GlobalGuyUSA
Senior Member
Geomaticsman
Senior Member
This looks like an interesting new offering from Sigma and should provide another cost-effective but slightly compromised option compared to the Nikon 500E, but I have no illusions about the Sigma actually being able to match the performance of Nikon's flagship if it comes in at 60% of the cost. First clue to that is that it's 0.5 lbs heavier than the Nikon version right out of the box.
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Gary -- Some Nikon stuff -- and a preference for wildlife in natural light
www.flickr.com/photos/garyirwin/
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