Why I will never buy another Nikon

Hi

I am sure Olympus did their best, I do not think a company would purposely screw up their own business.

My problem is trust, how can I trust a company that drop a system no matter their reason. They could very well do it again tomorrow.

When I look at Olympus m4/3 I think they will face the same issue as with 4/3. Sensor is smaller, size benefit marginal compared to other mirrorless, they are not much cheaper... so what will happen when other company catch up ?

Yes it is capitalism.

The Ginger Frog
 
Hi

I am sure Olympus did their best, I do not think a company would purposely screw up their own business.

My problem is trust, how can I trust a company that drop a system no matter their reason. They could very well do it again tomorrow.
I think the reason may matter a great deal. If there are two lines where each could remain profitable on their own but one is dropped because it's slightly less profitable and catering to investors is more important than catering to customer's desires then there's a company that I wouldn't trust. But if the company understands that the slightly less profitable line will suffer from continuing decreased sales over time, becoming even less profitable that could be bad for the company's future.

We can't really know, but if Olympus maintained both the 4/3 and the m4/3 lines, it's possible that neither of them would be around today. As I recall, just a few years ago Olympus was undergoing a tough patch and rumors of its demise were floating in the air. They're still here today but the entire market is shrinking thanks to smartphones, social media and selfie love.

I'm still fond of Olympus since my first was their excellent C-8080WZ, but one thing that put me off was its overly complex, poorly designed menu system, and from what I've read in reviews and user comments, their m4/3 cameras are still stuck with that menu system albatross.
 
I'm still fond of Olympus since my first was their excellent C-8080WZ, but one thing that put me off was its overly complex, poorly designed menu system, and from what I've read in reviews and user comments, their m4/3 cameras are still stuck with that menu system albatross.
Ah, still got mine! An expensive, unfinished jewel.

That camera almost killed the company, due to its excellent, very expensive, features were class leading by far, led to the slow sales, not helped a bit by the faults with it far outweighed the good points.

It would, on the other hand, be a perfect staring point for a modern version, with a more sensible saving time for RAW images (on a good day 2 fpm — not per second, per minute), a better ISO range (ISO 140 was the upper practical limit for good results), a bigger LCD (it could be tilted like the best, but its size was around 1.5"). Used very slow xD cards, another Olympus idea, or very expensive CF. And it was allergic to backlighting, the viewfinder and the LCD were unusable in those conditions, both totally washed out in lilac rivers from top to bottom.

It had many good points, though: It is still the only one hand camera I've come across (the left was not needed for photography), had quite comprehensive set of features, including an ability to take very good panoramas.

it had a very good macro function (impressive IQ), a very good 5X zoom, very fast optics, even with today's standard. Wobbly lens, but excellent optically.

Its WB wasn't that good, but when used with a flash (the built-in or external), wow!, and you could buy a professional style UW housing for it, I did, that wasn't bad, either.

Bought mine after seeing the rave reviews here at DPReview, and on my first trip to the US with my wife it died on the second day, and had to be sent to Schweiz for an upgrade!! Got it back some months later. Not malfunctioned again, happy to say.

Oddly, DPReview's own review is missing on the site, their supplied link is pointing into a black hole, evidently (no error messages, nothing)!

The C-8080's 8MB sensor was huge for its day, but a maximum ISO of 400 was bit weak, even then. Up to ISO 140 it was OK, and today you could probably save a ISO 200 image.

The body, by the way, has an excellent grip, and is made out of magnesium. And the battery is very big, similar in configuration, and size, to the Nikon battery in the V1!

If i was a forensic photographer it would do well even today (a modern powerful Olympus flash works excellent on the camera), as you controlled everything with your right hand, even most menu settings were accessible with one hand.

The menu system is not the best, but far better than Sony's NEX menu system!

I mostly use mine for passport style shots, and an occasional macro.

The model before it, the C-7070, saved Olympus bacon, and was produced for many years after the C-8080WZ had totally disappeared from the market.

Oh, time flies, G'Night!
 
Try this link:


I still have my C5060WZ. It was very good at its time. My one is somewhat unreliable. It had a "mode dial problem". It was stuck on "portrait mode" when I was in Thailand in 2004. Olympus fixed it after I had returned to NZ at no cost, even I did not have an international warranty. Apparently, the "mode dial problem" was a design fault.

When I was in Egypt in 2007. It failed again. This time the lens barrel would not extend. I could not take any photo for half of my trip. I didn't bring a second camera. It was really annoying. I had it fixed at my cost this time.

I liked the camera. But I could not risk travelling with it. I bought my first DSLR, a Nikon D40x. That was because the Nikon E2500, my first digital camera that I bought in 2002, had been so reliable. I still got it for my grandchildren to play with. It is still going well and still works on it original battery, 14 years on.
 
Worked very well, thanks!
I still have my C5060WZ. It was very good at its time. My one is somewhat unreliable. It had a "mode dial problem". It was stuck on "portrait mode" when I was in Thailand in 2004. Olympus fixed it after I had returned to NZ at no cost, even I did not have an international warranty. Apparently, the "mode dial problem" was a design fault.

When I was in Egypt in 2007. It failed again. This time the lens barrel would not extend. I could not take any photo for half of my trip. I didn't bring a second camera. It was really annoying. I had it fixed at my cost this time.
My trusted Konica KD-500W was with me when the Olympus failed (it just got stuck, and not even removing the battery helped one bit).
I liked the camera. But I could not risk travelling with it. I bought my first DSLR, a Nikon D40x. That was because the Nikon E2500, my first digital camera that I bought in 2002, had been so reliable. I still got it for my grandchildren to play with. It is still going well and still works on it original battery, 14 years on.
My first was that Konica, and I bought that as I had had Konica film compacts before that one. 5MP. The next version was called Minolta G-600, as Minolta had bought the Konica camera division, and then Sony bought Minolta. That camera was the same, but for one, or two, tweaks, like 6MP, therefore G-600!

Wore the Konica out after having taken many thousands of images with it. I started to drop pixels (probably water damage, as I paddled many times with it as my point and shoot camera), so it was pensioned off, and eventually I put it in the litter box, as it was completely falling to pieces. Still worked, if not the whole sensor! Max SD card size: 128MB!
 
You see, I was buying into a system for the future, anticipating that my glass would continue to have value with better bodies ...
Look, I understand how you feel but buying camera gear is an expense not an investment. Even if you factor in low depreciation on an expensive lens as part of your buying rationale (which, yes, I admit to doing), it should never be imagined that this comes without a certain element of risk - one could drop and damage the lens, or lose it, even if the market value remained constant.

If you want to play the used lens market, you have to learn buy low and sell high... which means reading the signposts earlier than most people. I don't have a lot of sympathy for people complaining now that Nikon abandoned them, as anyone who wanted to could have exited the N1 system without much loss 6-12 months ago... and, as far as I can see, even today the value on most N1 lenses has not depreciated significantly. I just sold my 30-110 for $120 which is hardly peanuts since they were selling for less than $150 years ago.

I'll probably take a large loss on my 32/1.2 if/when I ever decide to sell it but ... meh. You gotta learn to take a hit sometimes and play the averages.
 
Last edited:
You see, I was buying into a system for the future, anticipating that my glass would continue to have value with better bodies ...
Look, I understand how you feel but buying camera gear is an expense not an investment. Even if you factor in low depreciation on an expensive lens as part of your buying rationale (which, yes, I admit to doing), it should never be imagined that this comes without a certain element of risk - one could drop and damage the lens, or lose it, even if the market value remained constant.

If you want to play the used lens market, you have to learn buy low and sell high... which means reading the signposts earlier than most people. I don't have a lot of sympathy for people complaining now that Nikon abandoned them, as anyone who wanted to could have exited the N1 system without much loss 6-12 months ago... and, as far as I can see, even today the value on most N1 lenses has not depreciated significantly. I just sold my 30-110 for $120 which is hardly peanuts since they were selling for less than $150 years ago.
I saw the writing on the wall with the release of the V3 and got out then. I bought back into the system to a very limited degree 4 or 5 months later. Then got out completely this time last year when no V4 appeared. In Japan at my local camera shops 1 bodies are going for peanuts indeed. Lenses seemed to stabilize somewhat with the release of the J5 but once again started to slide again. Just saw a 70-300 CX this week going for 38,000 yen. Or roughly 400 dollars US. The 30-110 6,700 yen
I'll probably take a large loss on my 32/1.2 if/when I ever decide to sell it but ... meh. You gotta learn to take a hit sometimes and play the averages.
On a side note if the lenses have any life to them down the road then dire hard 1 users may still be willing to pay a high premium for them. Particularly the N glass.
 
In Japan at my local camera shops 1 bodies are going for peanuts indeed. Lenses seemed to stabilize somewhat with the release of the J5 but once again started to slide again. Just saw a 70-300 CX this week going for 38,000 yen. Or roughly 400 dollars US. The 30-110 6,700 yen
Map Camera (my "blue book" for reference prices) hasn't budged it's listings of any of the N1 gear yet, maybe 5,000 yen drop each on the V3 sets, 32mm and 70-300.

I haven't seen anything like the 70-300 CX for <40,000 yen. You must have a very friendly neighbourhood camera shop!
I'll probably take a large loss on my 32/1.2 if/when I ever decide to sell it but ... meh. You gotta learn to take a hit sometimes and play the averages.
On a side note if the lenses have any life to them down the road then dire hard 1 users may still be willing to pay a high premium for them. Particularly the N glass.
I'm not betting on it, since Nikon is probably going to continue selling the lenses to saturate the market.
 
My guess would be that the Nikon 1 lenses which have the best chance of being (over time) a ‘good investment’ (at least, in comparison to most photo gear) are the 70-300 and the 32 - the very ones most criticised on this forum by those who (to quote Oscar Wilde) know the price of everything and the value of nothing.
 
You see, I was buying into a system for the future, anticipating that my glass would continue to have value with better bodies ...
Look, I understand how you feel but buying camera gear is an expense not an investment. Even if you factor in low depreciation on an expensive lens as part of your buying rationale (which, yes, I admit to doing), it should never be imagined that this comes without a certain element of risk - one could drop and damage the lens, or lose it, even if the market value remained constant.

If you want to play the used lens market, you have to learn buy low and sell high... which means reading the signposts earlier than most people. I don't have a lot of sympathy for people complaining now that Nikon abandoned them, as anyone who wanted to could have exited the N1 system without much loss 6-12 months ago... and, as far as I can see, even today the value on most N1 lenses has not depreciated significantly. I just sold my 30-110 for $120 which is hardly peanuts since they were selling for less than $150 years ago.
I saw the writing on the wall with the release of the V3 and got out then. I bought back into the system to a very limited degree 4 or 5 months later. Then got out completely this time last year when no V4 appeared. In Japan at my local camera shops 1 bodies are going for peanuts indeed. Lenses seemed to stabilize somewhat with the release of the J5 but once again started to slide again. Just saw a 70-300 CX this week going for 38,000 yen. Or roughly 400 dollars US. The 30-110 6,700 yen
I'll probably take a large loss on my 32/1.2 if/when I ever decide to sell it but ... meh. You gotta learn to take a hit sometimes and play the averages.
On a side note if the lenses have any life to them down the road then dire hard 1 users may still be willing to pay a high premium for them. Particularly the N glass.
 
In Japan at my local camera shops 1 bodies are going for peanuts indeed. Lenses seemed to stabilize somewhat with the release of the J5 but once again started to slide again. Just saw a 70-300 CX this week going for 38,000 yen. Or roughly 400 dollars US. The 30-110 6,700 yen
Map Camera (my "blue book" for reference prices) hasn't budged it's listings of any of the N1 gear yet, maybe 5,000 yen drop each on the V3 sets, 32mm and 70-300.

I haven't seen anything like the 70-300 CX for <40,000 yen. You must have a very friendly neighbourhood camera shop!
I'll probably take a large loss on my 32/1.2 if/when I ever decide to sell it but ... meh. You gotta learn to take a hit sometimes and play the averages.
On a side note if the lenses have any life to them down the road then dire hard 1 users may still be willing to pay a high premium for them. Particularly the N glass.
I'm not betting on it, since Nikon is probably going to continue selling the lenses to saturate the market.
I wouldn't call them friendly, but there are two Kitamura cameras nearby that have them. One is 1,000 yen more though.
 
You see, I was buying into a system for the future, anticipating that my glass would continue to have value with better bodies ...
Look, I understand how you feel but buying camera gear is an expense not an investment. Even if you factor in low depreciation on an expensive lens as part of your buying rationale (which, yes, I admit to doing), it should never be imagined that this comes without a certain element of risk - one could drop and damage the lens, or lose it, even if the market value remained constant.

If you want to play the used lens market, you have to learn buy low and sell high... which means reading the signposts earlier than most people. I don't have a lot of sympathy for people complaining now that Nikon abandoned them, as anyone who wanted to could have exited the N1 system without much loss 6-12 months ago... and, as far as I can see, even today the value on most N1 lenses has not depreciated significantly. I just sold my 30-110 for $120 which is hardly peanuts since they were selling for less than $150 years ago.
I saw the writing on the wall with the release of the V3 and got out then. I bought back into the system to a very limited degree 4 or 5 months later. Then got out completely this time last year when no V4 appeared. In Japan at my local camera shops 1 bodies are going for peanuts indeed. Lenses seemed to stabilize somewhat with the release of the J5 but once again started to slide again. Just saw a 70-300 CX this week going for 38,000 yen. Or roughly 400 dollars US. The 30-110 6,700 yen
I'll probably take a large loss on my 32/1.2 if/when I ever decide to sell it but ... meh. You gotta learn to take a hit sometimes and play the averages.
On a side note if the lenses have any life to them down the road then dire hard 1 users may still be willing to pay a high premium for them. Particularly the N glass.
 
The two they sell online now are both 82980 yen .

That's the usual price. In general here n1 gear is not especially discounted.
 
In Japan at my local camera shops 1 bodies are going for peanuts indeed. Lenses seemed to stabilize somewhat with the release of the J5 but once again started to slide again. Just saw a 70-300 CX this week going for 38,000 yen. Or roughly 400 dollars US. The 30-110 6,700 yen
Map Camera (my "blue book" for reference prices) hasn't budged it's listings of any of the N1 gear yet, maybe 5,000 yen drop each on the V3 sets, 32mm and 70-300.

I haven't seen anything like the 70-300 CX for <40,000 yen. You must have a very friendly neighbourhood camera shop!
I wouldn't call them friendly, but there are two Kitamura cameras nearby that have them. One is 1,000 yen more though.
Even on Yahoo Auction, which is a bit of a dumping ground and free-for-all, the 70-300 CX fetches about 75,000 yen on average on open auction . Never less than 70,000. Any reputable dealer is going to price that lens in good working condition above 80000 yen. (are you sure they werent broken?)

Lowest price on a new one is almost 100,000.

So I'm going to have to file your report of those lenses selling for half that - at Kitamura no less - as "extremely dubious, proof needed". And reiterate that the used market for Nikon 1 lenses is still very bullish.
 
Last edited:
In Japan at my local camera shops 1 bodies are going for peanuts indeed. Lenses seemed to stabilize somewhat with the release of the J5 but once again started to slide again. Just saw a 70-300 CX this week going for 38,000 yen. Or roughly 400 dollars US. The 30-110 6,700 yen
Map Camera (my "blue book" for reference prices) hasn't budged it's listings of any of the N1 gear yet, maybe 5,000 yen drop each on the V3 sets, 32mm and 70-300.

I haven't seen anything like the 70-300 CX for <40,000 yen. You must have a very friendly neighbourhood camera shop!
I wouldn't call them friendly, but there are two Kitamura cameras nearby that have them. One is 1,000 yen more though.
Even on Yahoo Auction, which is a bit of a dumping ground and free-for-all, the 70-300 CX fetches about 75,000 yen on average on open auction . Never less than 70,000. Any reputable dealer is going to price that lens in good working condition above 80000 yen. (are you sure they werent broken?)

Lowest price on a new one is almost 100,000.

So I'm going to have to file your report of those lenses selling for half that - at Kitamura no less - as "extremely dubious, proof needed". And reiterate that the used market for Nikon 1 lenses is still very bullish.
Well they are grade B which usually entails some sort of physical wear or dust inside the lens. Grade B in my experience is a very useable lens. I'll probably be heading to one of them this weekend and If the lens is still available I'll snap a picture of it for you.
 
In Japan at my local camera shops 1 bodies are going for peanuts indeed. Lenses seemed to stabilize somewhat with the release of the J5 but once again started to slide again. Just saw a 70-300 CX this week going for 38,000 yen. Or roughly 400 dollars US. The 30-110 6,700 yen
Map Camera (my "blue book" for reference prices) hasn't budged it's listings of any of the N1 gear yet, maybe 5,000 yen drop each on the V3 sets, 32mm and 70-300.

I haven't seen anything like the 70-300 CX for <40,000 yen. You must have a very friendly neighbourhood camera shop!
I wouldn't call them friendly, but there are two Kitamura cameras nearby that have them. One is 1,000 yen more though.
Even on Yahoo Auction, which is a bit of a dumping ground and free-for-all, the 70-300 CX fetches about 75,000 yen on average on open auction . Never less than 70,000. Any reputable dealer is going to price that lens in good working condition above 80000 yen. (are you sure they werent broken?)

Lowest price on a new one is almost 100,000.

So I'm going to have to file your report of those lenses selling for half that - at Kitamura no less - as "extremely dubious, proof needed". And reiterate that the used market for Nikon 1 lenses is still very bullish.
Well they are grade B which usually entails some sort of physical wear or dust inside the lens. Grade B in my experience is a very useable lens. I'll probably be heading to one of them this weekend and If the lens is still available I'll snap a picture of it for you.
Cool. Looking forward to that.

I wonder why they weren't on the website? While useable, "B" (並品) rank can sometimes be pretty ratty. Kitamura isn't as rigorous as Map are for that grade...
 
Last edited:
In Japan at my local camera shops 1 bodies are going for peanuts indeed. Lenses seemed to stabilize somewhat with the release of the J5 but once again started to slide again. Just saw a 70-300 CX this week going for 38,000 yen. Or roughly 400 dollars US. The 30-110 6,700 yen
Map Camera (my "blue book" for reference prices) hasn't budged it's listings of any of the N1 gear yet, maybe 5,000 yen drop each on the V3 sets, 32mm and 70-300.

I haven't seen anything like the 70-300 CX for <40,000 yen. You must have a very friendly neighbourhood camera shop!
I wouldn't call them friendly, but there are two Kitamura cameras nearby that have them. One is 1,000 yen more though.
Even on Yahoo Auction, which is a bit of a dumping ground and free-for-all, the 70-300 CX fetches about 75,000 yen on average on open auction . Never less than 70,000. Any reputable dealer is going to price that lens in good working condition above 80000 yen. (are you sure they werent broken?)

Lowest price on a new one is almost 100,000.

So I'm going to have to file your report of those lenses selling for half that - at Kitamura no less - as "extremely dubious, proof needed". And reiterate that the used market for Nikon 1 lenses is still very bullish.
Well they are grade B which usually entails some sort of physical wear or dust inside the lens. Grade B in my experience is a very useable lens. I'll probably be heading to one of them this weekend and If the lens is still available I'll snap a picture of it for you.
Cool. Looking forward to that.

I wonder why they weren't on the website? While useable, "B" grade can sometimes be pretty ratty. Kitamura isn't as rigorous as Map about grading...
There are more than a few times that I have seen lenses not listed on their site that I have seen in the stores. I'm not sure how they operate but perhaps it's up to the particular proprietor?

As far as the dubiousness at times wonder if its borderline incompetence. The day I noticed the 70-300mm I also saw a NEX 5R selling for less than 2000 yen. Pristine shape. I asked why and he stated that it was due water submersion. I decided to pick it up and take a chance on it... less than 300 clicks as it turns out. If anything I could use an extra battery for my QX-1.

Got it home an realized that whoever used the camera broke off the HDMI cable within the camera as the connector was still inside. Pair of tweezers fixed said issue. Doubt Ill use the body for anything but the battery is fine. It's unbelievable that such a thing is possible. Did it have water damage as the included repair estimate alluded too? I seriously doubt it. I have taken the camera out a few times just to see if some issues arise after removing the broken tip of the HDMI connector and zero issues. Perhaps there was another 5R and they mixed up the tags? Incompetence either way.

4bcb4c0936d74ae9bc8377bf25f68a82.jpg

Working fine. Test shot. Lens was not included.
Working fine. Test shot. Lens was not included.

--
https://www.flickr.com/photos/76058747@N07/
 
Last edited:
There are more than a few times that I have seen lenses not listed on their site that I have seen in the stores. I'm not sure how they operate but perhaps it's up to the particular proprietor?
Perhaps the 訳あり ("special" - but not in a good way) goods are restricted to in-store-only to avoid confusion.
As far as the dubiousness at times wonder if its borderline incompetence. The day I noticed the 70-300mm I also saw a NEX 5R selling for less than 2000 yen. Pristine shape. I asked why and he stated that it was due water submersion. I decided to pick it up and take a chance on it... less than 300 clicks as it turns out. If anything I could use an extra battery for my QX-1.
Nice score!
 
(unless their marketing philosophy changes)

It seems to me that there is total disconnect between Nikon and their users.

I originally bought a fire sale V1 kit and liked what I experienced. (Perhaps I should have taken more heed of the many reviews decrying the proposition)

I upgraded, buying V2 and eventually V3, and have owned at least one of all the lenses in the range, except 10mm and 10-100PD. Obviously I liked what I had and saw a future in the form factor. Expensive lenses would not be introduced unless the range was going to be developed, would they?

With the uncertainty (actually an almost certainty that it is dead) about the future of the range I have now disposed of most of the kit, at a significant loss (before the value falls even further) which I find it hard to afford.

You see, I was buying into a system for the future, anticipating that my glass would continue to have value with better bodies (was I foolish in thinking that sense would prevail in some of the specifications of new announcements?)

I think Nikon is concerned only with shifting boxes today, and not building a relationship with their users.

I have been a user of leading edge technology all my business life, and know that the secret in gaining value from your investments is over the long term, not in making a quick sale and walking away.

SHAME ON YOU NIKON

You deserve to fail and I for one won't be weeping

Tom
Now, if you're who you say you are and have been bleeding edge early adopter, I'm surprised you would feel "so betrayed". Perhaps you aren't the "leading edge tech user all of your business life". I'm also surprised that being in business and supposedly an early tech adopter you would have such a frankly naive view.

Early adoption of tech is high risk / high reward. If you can't stand the risk, don't play.
 
I'm still fond of Olympus since my first was their excellent C-8080WZ, but one thing that put me off was its overly complex, poorly designed menu system, and from what I've read in reviews and user comments, their m4/3 cameras are still stuck with that menu system albatross.
Ah, still got mine! An expensive, unfinished jewel.
And a beast of a camera it was. Mine once fell out of a bag it was being carried in onto a very hard floor. It suffered no damage and I shouldn't have worried. It was so strong and solid that it could be an effective weapon or be used to pound tent pegs into the ground. I'm only slightly exaggerating. :)

.
...

Bought mine after seeing the rave reviews here at DPReview, and on my first trip to the US with my wife it died on the second day, and had to be sent to Schweiz for an upgrade!! Got it back some months later. Not malfunctioned again, happy to say.
Years ago, many years after it was out of production, B&H's henryp (Henry Posner) answered a forum question asking about which camera was should be considered an all time classic. I searched by can't find that reply so I may not have accurately remembered some of the words used, but I remember that his answer was the Olympus C-8080.

The closest I could come (not close enough) was this 2005 reply from henryp :
So someone pointed out that the Olympus C8080 widezoom is a
SEMI-SLR. A cross between a point & shootcamera and a SLR.
Two things:

An SLR is a camera wherein the photographer uses the same lens to view as the camera uses to record the image. There's nothing "semi" about it. What distinguishes cameras like the Oly C8080 and Nikon 8800, to name two, from the EOS Rebel and D50 is that the latter offer interchangeable lenses while the former have non-interchangeable lenses.

Second, the Olympus C8080, excellent as it is, has regrettably been discontinued by Olympus.
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/14337759

.
Oh, time flies, G'Night!
Indeed it does but it's no longer nighttime here so I'll say instead G'Day!
 
Last edited:

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top