Reading mode: Light Dark

New D810 obviously returned - would you worry?

Go to last post
Is the retailer or Nikon Inc. supposed to take the financial loss of having some fool buy a camera, shoot 500 pictures with it (still basically "new") and then decide they want to return it?

I sympathize with the retailer and Nikon here.

I think the onus is on the purchaser not to purchase and return items willy-nilly to begin with.

Perhaps the solution is to make the "restock" fee more punitive, or to not accept returns.
 
Having dealt with B&H and Adorama for decades, it is hard for me to believe that they are intentionally jerking around a customer since they do hundreds of transactions a day, many repeat business, and have never had any problem taking back boxes which been opened on new equipment, returns of incorrect orders, etc. - no arguments. OP, they are going to believe that you did NOT shoot the 500 exposures. Either just return the camera or negotiate an open box discount with them, esp. since you are there in NYC. What's another half hour in those lovely subways, anyway? :-)

This is most probably an instance of one of this website's selfish posters who order and test multiple samples of the same camera and return most or even all them due to imagined flaws, thus making those units de facto used items.
 
JimAustin said:
JimAustin said:
From B&H. Normally when you get a new camera you need to set up the menus--choose language etc. Already done in this case. Plus, a bunch of plastic things (not even sure what they are) loose in the case. So I checked shutter activations in Photoshop: More than 500.

I've taken maybe 20 shots and there's no sign of trouble, but it's a half-hour subway ride (roughly) to B&H. Would you exchange it for now, or not worry?
Click to expand...
OP here. Here is B&H's email response:
JimAustin said:
Thank you for contacting the Customer Service Department at B&H Photo Video and Pro Audio.

I am sorry to hear about this situation. We checked the serial number and this item was never sold before. If you did want to come to the store and swap it out our returns department will gladly swap it for another one. I do apologize if this has caused you any inconvenience.
Click to expand...
I'm satisfied that they're being honest here, although it doesn't explain why the camera was set up and had exposures; I suppose it might have been used as a demo. In any case, this is another example of fine B&H customer service, IMO. I think it vindicates the company. I regret the need to take the time (and spend $5 in subway fares), but I'm satisfied with this outcome. I will exchange the camera. I'll need to head south soon since they close early on Fridays.

Cheers.
Click to expand...
Glad it worked out. B&H is my local also.

I notice over the years, there are a few posters here that seem to have it in for B&H.

They're not one of the sleazy outfits that used to grace the back of Pop Photography.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy anything from them, at any price. I know they will have my back if there's a mix-up and or problem.

And BTW, I wouldn't step foot in a Best Buy. I can't wait till they go out of business and they surely will.
 
capanikon said:
Is the retailer or Nikon Inc. supposed to take the financial loss of having some fool buy a camera, shoot 500 pictures with it (still basically "new") and then decide they want to return it?

I sympathize with the retailer and Nikon here.

I think the onus is on the purchaser not to purchase and return items willy-nilly to begin with.

Perhaps the solution is to make the "restock" fee more punitive, or to not accept returns.
Click to expand...
I also think Nikon should seal their boxes so you know for sure if you are getting a new item. Maybe to make the dealers not have to buy a camera just for demo purposes they can lend loaners to them to use as demo models.
 
Iain G Foulds said:
... Glen: Absolutely, the manufacture should seal their boxes. It is in everyone's best interest. Why give anyone a chance to mess with your product?
Click to expand...
But it's not in the interest of the retailer who does open them to show customers, or want to accept new-looking returns as new. Any more than a new car is not really new. Almost any purchase from stock at a dealer has been driven on test drives. I had one try to sell me one with 1000 miles on it as new, except I noticed.

Imagine the outcry if a law was passed that dealers could not drive a "new" car on a test drive AT ALL. Sure. it's different. But not that different.

Please note I WOULD prefer they sealed them myself. I'm just saying that it's not in "everyone's" interest.
 
JimAustin said:
From B&H. Normally when you get a new camera you need to set up the menus--choose language etc. Already done in this case. Plus, a bunch of plastic things (not even sure what they are) loose in the case. So I checked shutter activations in Photoshop: More than 500.

I've taken maybe 20 shots and there's no sign of trouble, but it's a half-hour subway ride (roughly) to B&H. Would you exchange it for now, or not worry?
Click to expand...
This is a MAJOR and CRITICAL accusation for a reseller.

B&H is known for their integrity, other than their wide selection and prompt service, I would not expect anything like that from them. A seller on eBay, possible. A gray market marketer with deep discount, maybe. But certainly, not B&H.

I wish Henry Posner (the H of B&H) would come in an make a statement.

I also find your attitude a little bit off base. You're taking about a $3,000 camera, not a $59.99 point and shoot or a %5.99 paperbox throwaway. This is a professional tool with professional care for professional. Anyone I know of, including yours truely, would jump up and demand a return if not compensation. And you're not sure because of the half hour subway ride?
 
DMKAlex said:
DMKAlex wrote: Anyone I know of, including yours truely, would jump up and demand a return if not compensation.
Click to expand...
This topic is brings up a very good point about those that "test" new items then return them. Their "test" item then becomes used when they return it and some unknown person then becomes the recipient of used equipment that they thought would be new. I don't know how many times I read here on DPReview "I just ordered the lens that I'm going to test. I'll put it through its paces then return it if I don't like it." That bothers me to no end. Many times buy things just so they can open a box up and use the item for a few days, just as though it's Christmas. When they're done or have a bad case of buyer's remorse they just return it.

The new Nikon 105mm f/1.4E is a good example of this. How many people purchased the lens just to test it? We'll never know, but someone will be buying a used lens in 30 days or less thinking it was new. I guess this is why if you want BRAND NEW (and not a pre-used brand new) you preorder the lens when it's announced and pay full price.

I've always thought that Nikon should seal their boxes, but many don't seem to like that idea. I guess there's no simple way out of this.
 
Make sure the serial numbers match, and the camera has the USA warranty and warranty card. Once had to get a grey market camera, and it was a nightmare - took forever, and was costly to repair, since Nikon USA would not touch it! Best case, someone just bought the camera for a quick shoot, worse case is, some issue with the camera that, however, could be fixed under warranty. Lastly, make sure all the parts are in the box. Love the fact that B&H lists everything that is in the box! Good luck...
 
Ferguson said:
BasilG said:
A representative from B&H sometimes frequents these forums. Would be interesting to know what he has to say about this.
Click to expand...
If I recall, Henry Posner has addressed this several times. I hope I can provide an accurate gist, but if you search a bit you will find the originals (I believe he goes by HenryP as user name). Essentially: Basically because they have a no questions asked return policy, they review each returned item carefully and decide if it still qualifies to be sold as new, or should be returned to the manufacturer as defective. They claim this is a necessary adjunct to their no questions asked return policy, that not reselling ones that had no actual problems, but still allowing such returns, is not practical, and they try hard to weed out any problems, and if they do fail and you are unhappy - return it (again). They have also been able in the past to tell you if it was returned by checking their records, so contacting them is a first step.
Click to expand...
I second that.

I remember Henry Posner explaining that in one of his past contributions on this forum.

Yes, you may get a previously sold camera sent to you as a new one, but if you don't like it, you can return it and request a really new one.

This is an unfortunate side effect of the generous return policies most retailers in the USA offer. I think there are very few other countries where this practice is followed.

In most other countries (like here in Australia), once you buy a camera (or any other consumer item), you are only entitled to return it if it is faulty.
Ferguson said:
As a consumer this is a real mixed blessing; you appreciate the return policy, and hate the idea you may be getting a used product.
Click to expand...
Exactly.
 
Again, when I worked for a camera store we did not have any display cameras like Best Buy or Fry's or major camera stores. So if you walked in wanting to see the Canon 80d which is in a box, someone would take it out of the box. Put in a battery and memory card and say here, try it out. How many times has that happened with that one 80d? Don't know, but a lot. So, the camera has x amount of actuations on it. Still under warranty for the next year. I know that if I go into a store to buy something NEW I have a reasonable expectation that that product in NEW. At Samy's and other prominent retailers I know set an actuation quota on the amount of clicks you can put on it before they will accept it back for a return. Do they declare to anyone once it comes back that it went out and came back? If so, should be an "open box" product? Maybe if they charged a restocking charge they could discount it. I don't know
nathantw said:
nathantw said:
DMKAlex wrote: Anyone I know of, including yours truely, would jump up and demand a return if not compensation.
Click to expand...
This topic is brings up a very good point about those that "test" new items then return them. Their "test" item then becomes used when they return it and some unknown person then becomes the recipient of used equipment that they thought would be new. I don't know how many times I read here on DPReview "I just ordered the lens that I'm going to test. I'll put it through its paces then return it if I don't like it." That bothers me to no end. Many times buy things just so they can open a box up and use the item for a few days, just as though it's Christmas. When they're done or have a bad case of buyer's remorse they just return it.

The new Nikon 105mm f/1.4E is a good example of this. How many people purchased the lens just to test it? We'll never know, but someone will be buying a used lens in 30 days or less thinking it was new. I guess this is why if you want BRAND NEW (and not a pre-used brand new) you preorder the lens when it's announced and pay full price.

I've always thought that Nikon should seal their boxes, but many don't seem to like that idea. I guess there's no simple way out of this.
Click to expand...
 
Peter CS said:
Make sure the serial numbers match, and the camera has the USA warranty and warranty card. Once had to get a grey market camera, and it was a nightmare - took forever, and was costly to repair, since Nikon USA would not touch it! Best case, someone just bought the camera for a quick shoot, worse case is, some issue with the camera that, however, could be fixed under warranty. Lastly, make sure all the parts are in the box. Love the fact that B&H lists everything that is in the box! Good luck...
Click to expand...
This has changed. Grey Nikons can now be fixed in US,
 
nathantw said:
nathantw said:
DMKAlex wrote: Anyone I know of, including yours truely, would jump up and demand a return if not compensation.
Click to expand...
This topic is brings up a very good point about those that "test" new items then return them. Their "test" item then becomes used when they return it and some unknown person then becomes the recipient of used equipment that they thought would be new. I don't know how many times I read here on DPReview "I just ordered the lens that I'm going to test. I'll put it through its paces then return it if I don't like it." That bothers me to no end. Many times buy things just so they can open a box up and use the item for a few days, just as though it's Christmas. When they're done or have a bad case of buyer's remorse they just return it.

The new Nikon 105mm f/1.4E is a good example of this. How many people purchased the lens just to test it? We'll never know, but someone will be buying a used lens in 30 days or less thinking it was new.
Click to expand...
This is a lead pipe certainty, even at $2199. I can see it now: "Guys, don't you think this one is back/front/side focusing ?? I've posted my deodorant can samples on DPR and all my usual experts say it's off."

And back it goes to be sent out to the next guy.
nathantw said:
I guess this is why if you want BRAND NEW (and not a pre-used brand new) you preorder the lens when it's announced and pay full price.
Click to expand...
No one in their right mind would knowingly accept a Macbook Pro with the software loaded with someone else's info or a 75" SUHD TV with the staples pulled. No, only the photographers are supposed to take this treatment lying down and like it.

nathantw said:
I've always thought that Nikon should seal their boxes, but many retailers don't seem to like that idea. I guess there's no simple way out of this.
Click to expand...
Well, the simple way out has been mentioned any number of times, but I'll say it again. Seal the boxes, just like every other piece of consumer electronics from a USB adaptor to a 110" TV. If the seal is broken, sell it as open box at a discount. Bestbuy already does this voluntarily because it's the right thing to do and because there would be hell to pay in the user comments otherwise. Retailer gets hurt? Charge a restock fee or take it in the shorts, their choice.
 
overniteman said:
JimAustin said:
JimAustin said:
From B&H. Normally when you get a new camera you need to set up the menus--choose language etc. Already done in this case. Plus, a bunch of plastic things (not even sure what they are) loose in the case. So I checked shutter activations in Photoshop: More than 500.

I've taken maybe 20 shots and there's no sign of trouble, but it's a half-hour subway ride (roughly) to B&H. Would you exchange it for now, or not worry?
Click to expand...
OP here. Here is B&H's email response:
overniteman said:
Thank you for contacting the Customer Service Department at B&H Photo Video and Pro Audio.

I am sorry to hear about this situation. We checked the serial number and this item was never sold before. If you did want to come to the store and swap it out our returns department will gladly swap it for another one. I do apologize if this has caused you any inconvenience.
Click to expand...
I'm satisfied that they're being honest here, although it doesn't explain why the camera was set up and had exposures; I suppose it might have been used as a demo. In any case, this is another example of fine B&H customer service, IMO. I think it vindicates the company. I regret the need to take the time (and spend $5 in subway fares), but I'm satisfied with this outcome. I will exchange the camera. I'll need to head south soon since they close early on Fridays.

Cheers.
Click to expand...
Glad it worked out. B&H is my local also.

I notice over the years, there are a few posters here that seem to have it in for B&H.

They're not one of the sleazy outfits that used to grace the back of Pop Photography.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy anything from them, at any price. I know they will have my back if there's a mix-up and or problem.

And BTW, I wouldn't step foot in a Best Buy. I can't wait till they go out of business and they surely will.
Click to expand...
I've never gotten anything but untouched merch from Bestbuy, which is why they get my thousands. They will be here as long as they want to be.
 
Reilly said:
Right, completely right, as several threads a month for years prove over and over again.
Click to expand...
Really ? You are telling me how my dealings with B&H went ?

B&H is the store with the biggest customer base in the US for photography. There is bound to be mistakes. Considering the volume B&H has, the threads with legitimate complains are very far and between. Like one every 6 months, not the "several threads a month as you claim".
 
The issue has two folds.

First, when I purchase something "new", I expect nothing but new. Unopen. Period. If it is open box, or demo, say so in the sales listing. If it is a returned, it should fall under the category of returned and tested, or refurbished. New is new. I may expect the factory QC at the end of the assemby may have clicked a few clicks to test. Definitely not 500 clicks.

Then this selling environment of USA. It started out as a customer service issue in some business. Unlimited return. No question asked. It works for some industry. It works for large powerful sellers like Amazon.com, Walmart or HomeDepot. These powerful buyers bought in huge volume. But they withhold 1/4 of the invoice amount of that container of goods they bought and put it in escrow. Within the next year, they take return from their customers and deduct that from your escrow. At the end of the year, they would tell you to come to their return warehouse to pick up all those defects, or return.

Small business tries to compete with this big boys but they do not have the muscle to withhold payment. Someone bought something and returned it after "test", they are stuck.

It is a vicious business environment that our law makers just turn the other cheek. I believe it is not like that in Europe, or Asia, where buyers also have a responsibility to make the right purchase and live with their decision. Here in the USA, this environment has created a lot of irresponsible buyers.
 
Maybe you're right.

But Henry Posner has been more like their spokesman and he drops by here quite frequently.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Keyboard shortcuts

f
Forum
m
My threads
Mobile site
About
Editorial content
Cameras & Lenses
Community
All content, design, and layout are Copyright © 1998–2025 Digital Photography Review All Rights Reserved.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
When you use DPReview links to buy products, the site may earn a commission.
©GPS Media - Guides, Products, Services.
Back
Top