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Canon EOS M3 Review & Samsung Exit

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JanMatthys

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I owned & sold the EOS M I, Just read the EOS M3 review and I’m just baffled on why Samsung decided to exit the market when their NX camera line is clearly superior to Canon, Nikon, and even Sony APS-C mirrorless offerings

The NX500 is superior to anything Canon or Nikon have ever put together on their mirrorless line and the NX-1 will blow away any Sony or Fuji APS-C mirrorless camera, so why did they exit the market? I understand their marketing was crappy, but, seriously that is a relatively easy correction to make.
 
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As with most man made disasters it is a sum of some things.

Some internal issues, the whole segment is going down, the maximum quality and offerings for minimum sales. Everything is well documented in this forum.

The fact is that Koreans at some point in history made the most complete hybrid camera.

I am certain that we will see a Chinese hybrid camera very soon, and the ridiculous asking prices for mediocre Japanese cameras will sink to the bottom of history.
 
JanMatthys said:
I owned & sold the EOS M I, Just read the EOS M3 review and I’m just baffled on why Samsung decided to exit the market when their NX camera line is clearly superior to Canon, Nikon, and even Sony APS-C mirrorless offerings

The NX500 is superior to anything Canon or Nikon have ever put together on their mirrorless line and the NX-1 will blow away any Sony or Fuji APS-C mirrorless camera, so why did they exit the market? I understand their marketing was crappy, but, seriously that is a relatively easy correction to make.
Click to expand...
Let me first add that the NX1 still blows away most DSLRs with two year old technology. One can only wonder what the NX1 Mark 1 would have been like.

I believe that Samsung is taking a long-vision approach to the imaging marketplace. As sensor technology continues to improve, fewer and few will opt for a dedicated camera; instead, they will rely on phones and tablet PCs...

In addition, I have written here several times that the future of much high-end photography is with multi-sensor stitched technologies, i.e. studio. landscape and product photography. Think better than medium format image quality at the price of a current high-end Full-Frame camera.

Samsung makes sensors, Samsung makes phones. Why invest more money in a dying market where Samsung has little penetration?
 
Jude 101 said:
JanMatthys said:
I owned & sold the EOS M I, Just read the EOS M3 review and I’m just baffled on why Samsung decided to exit the market when their NX camera line is clearly superior to Canon, Nikon, and even Sony APS-C mirrorless offerings

The NX500 is superior to anything Canon or Nikon have ever put together on their mirrorless line and the NX-1 will blow away any Sony or Fuji APS-C mirrorless camera, so why did they exit the market? I understand their marketing was crappy, but, seriously that is a relatively easy correction to make.
Click to expand...
Let me first add that the NX1 still blows away most DSLRs with two year old technology. One can only wonder what the NX1 Mark 1 would have been like.

I believe that Samsung is taking a long-vision approach to the imaging marketplace. As sensor technology continues to improve, fewer and few will opt for a dedicated camera; instead, they will rely on phones and tablet PCs...

In addition, I have written here several times that the future of much high-end photography is with multi-sensor stitched technologies, i.e. studio. landscape and product photography. Think better than medium format image quality at the price of a current high-end Full-Frame camera.

Samsung makes sensors, Samsung makes phones. Why invest more money in a dying market where Samsung has little penetration?
Click to expand...
Whatever the future is, multi sensor technology is not yet out, so it is not even a historical present. In the future cars will be flying, I do not see Honda, Ford and Volkswagen quiting the industry because their cars do not fly, yet.

People tend to forget that evolution do not jump steps, you can't go from A to C without B first, and maybe (which we do not know yet if it is C or C2 or W or whatever) multi sensor technology is C, but we just do not know yet, and certainly Canon (the only company making real money in this segment) are collecting good millions with the most conservative approach. And that is teaching us something about humans, that are conservative out of fear of the new (and the non tested/unknown), and because humans adapt to technology and buy new and/or groundbraking stuff, the future is not so certain, or fast approaching.

We know that the best hybrid camera of 2015 sold the least bodies, we know that dSLRs outsell vastly mirrorless cameras, we know that the most succesful mirrorless company with the biggest prices (Sony) are not doing very well financially.

Maybe it is clear for you and others (maybe even me) what the future must be like, but the future is made by the decisions of the many, not the few, and unfortunatelly the masses are usually not very capable of taking wise decisions.

I am certain for one thing, the need for a professional photo/video-grapher will never cease to exist, so the need for professional equipment will always be here. They used to be hundreds of millions of compact cameras, now they are camera phones, perfect, the millions of people that bought a dSLR that never used (big, heavy, complicated) never needed anything more than a compact (or theirs camera phone). It was just a bubble of the golden age ,when after the colapse of the Eastern bloc, Western economists and political scientists declared stupiditly the end of history, that capitalism is the rightful system, and will live for ever, like anything does in this universe, "everything moves".

Now the market just corrects itself. I predict slower cycles, bigger prices and less technology. Alas, the reply of Sony to the 28megapixel BSI Samsung sensor, is a a simple 24 one, that is not fast forward to the future I guess.
 
Totally true. I'll add that samsung could have done a nx1 mk2 just by using a newer exynos cpu, more memory and a marginally tuned up sensor, to achieve:

- 20fps

- 4k@60fps with less rolling shutter

- 2k@240fps

They didn't, even if the investment would have been really low. This is a bold statement of 'they are not interested anymore' theory.
 
tecnoworld said:
Totally true. I'll add that samsung could have done a nx1 mk2 just by using a newer exynos cpu, more memory and a marginally tuned up sensor, to achieve:

- 20fps

- 4k@60fps with less rolling shutter

- 2k@240fps

They didn't, even if the investment would have been really low. This is a bold statement of 'they are not interested anymore' theory.
Click to expand...
Totally true too! I add IBIS and better low light capabilities (basically just fine tuning the excellent BSI sensor, as you mentioned). The minimum investment makes me a bit optimistic for end of 2017, that maybe, just maybe we will see something from Samsung, or someone that "inherits" NX technology. That is too much tech to be forgoten.
 
I'd buy one immediately, if it ever comes. No other camera is really making me whishing it.
 
Actually the most interesting bit in that review for me was DPReview's assertion that Nikon 1 series is no longer being developed. Pretty big news and makes me go hmm...
 
tecnoworld said:
Totally true. I'll add that samsung could have done a nx1 mk2 just by using a newer exynos cpu, more memory and a marginally tuned up sensor, to achieve:

- 20fps

- 4k@60fps with less rolling shutter

- 2k@240fps

They didn't, even if the investment would have been really low. This is a bold statement of 'they are not interested anymore' theory.
Click to expand...
Marco,

I'll play devil's advocate, not because I really believe it, but because there's still a slight possibility in that Samsung never officially "quit" the business but did officially "park" it. And yes, this is really a stretch.

As you describe, the improvements listed above are marginal. Why would Samsung do a marginal improvement Mark II (either NX1 or NX500)? That would put them in the same league as Canikon: the "now that we've got you, we'll give you just a little bit more to keep getting your money" league. That's one of the reasons I left Canon for new equipment. Samsung did something really wrong by not marketing their new cameras/lenses properly after dong something really right (as opposed to Canikon) by giving us state of the art equipment. And they did it in secret.

It had to take years to develop the NX1 and S lenses, yet prior to 2014 there basically weren't that many real rumors about that development group. The first S lens came out earlier than Photokina in 2014, and there were hints of a 300mm prototype which led to some speculation of a "new" camera to go with them. But the actual announcement of the professional NX1 with its near complete list of state of the art features at Photokina took most by surprise.

So, again, I'll continue as devil's advocate. Maybe the NX1 and NX500 still weren't really the cameras Samsung wanted to put on the market. Maybe that secret development group is still somehow "parked" in secret and working on the cameras with the tech that will really challenge Canikon and Sony. So much so that Samsung is planning a huge marketing budget not only to go along with the announcement, but continuing as well.

And maybe unicorns do exist. And some how fly as well. After all, have you ever seen a unicorn that didn't fly?

OK, I'm finished stretching now. A little exercise feels good and puts one in a good state of mind. Especially when considering the actions of the "devil" that apparently abandoned us.

Ed
 
There has been several speculations on why Samsung suddenly stopped working on the camera line.

I think the most convincing ones pertain to the back and forth lawsuits between Samsung and Apple, regarding the copyrights used in cell phones and touch screen technology.

Some time ago Apple won a big lawsuit, prompting Samsung to quit the camera division, rather than pay the rather punishing fees should they continue.

This is what I read, though I can't remember where or what links to provide.
 
mangokid said:
  1. mangokid wrote:
There has been several speculations on why Samsung suddenly stopped working on the camera line.

I think the most convincing ones pertain to the back and forth lawsuits between Samsung and Apple, regarding the copyrights used in cell phones and touch screen technology.

Some time ago Apple won a big lawsuit, prompting Samsung to quit the camera division, rather than pay the rather punishing fees should they continue.

This is what I read, though I can't remember where or what links to provide.
Click to expand...
Sorry, but until you find a credible real person (with a surname) state this officially, it is just a bunch of..well, not true. And I can write more than thousand words (with a lot of political thinking in it!) to disagree with this bunch of..well, conspiracy theories.
 
VisionLight said:
tecnoworld said:
Totally true. I'll add that samsung could have done a nx1 mk2 just by using a newer exynos cpu, more memory and a marginally tuned up sensor, to achieve:

- 20fps

- 4k@60fps with less rolling shutter

- 2k@240fps

They didn't, even if the investment would have been really low. This is a bold statement of 'they are not interested anymore' theory.
Click to expand...
Marco,

I'll play devil's advocate, not because I really believe it, but because there's still a slight possibility in that Samsung never officially "quit" the business but did officially "park" it. And yes, this is really a stretch.

As you describe, the improvements listed above are marginal. Why would Samsung do a marginal improvement Mark II (either NX1 or NX500)? That would put them in the same league as Canikon: the "now that we've got you, we'll give you just a little bit more to keep getting your money" league. That's one of the reasons I left Canon for new equipment. Samsung did something really wrong by not marketing their new cameras/lenses properly after dong something really right (as opposed to Canikon) by giving us state of the art equipment. And they did it in secret.

It had to take years to develop the NX1 and S lenses, yet prior to 2014 there basically weren't that many real rumors about that development group. The first S lens came out earlier than Photokina in 2014, and there were hints of a 300mm prototype which led to some speculation of a "new" camera to go with them. But the actual announcement of the professional NX1 with its near complete list of state of the art features at Photokina took most by surprise.

So, again, I'll continue as devil's advocate. Maybe the NX1 and NX500 still weren't really the cameras Samsung wanted to put on the market. Maybe that secret development group is still somehow "parked" in secret and working on the cameras with the tech that will really challenge Canikon and Sony. So much so that Samsung is planning a huge marketing budget not only to go along with the announcement, but continuing as well.

And maybe unicorns do exist. And some how fly as well. After all, have you ever seen a unicorn that didn't fly?

OK, I'm finished stretching now. A little exercise feels good and puts one in a good state of mind. Especially when considering the actions of the "devil" that apparently abandoned us.

Ed
Click to expand...
 
Kisaha said:
VisionLight said:
tecnoworld said:
Totally true. I'll add that samsung could have done a nx1 mk2 just by using a newer exynos cpu, more memory and a marginally tuned up sensor, to achieve:

- 20fps

- 4k@60fps with less rolling shutter

- 2k@240fps

They didn't, even if the investment would have been really low. This is a bold statement of 'they are not interested anymore' theory.
Click to expand...
Marco,

I'll play devil's advocate, not because I really believe it, but because there's still a slight possibility in that Samsung never officially "quit" the business but did officially "park" it. And yes, this is really a stretch.

As you describe, the improvements listed above are marginal. Why would Samsung do a marginal improvement Mark II (either NX1 or NX500)? That would put them in the same league as Canikon: the "now that we've got you, we'll give you just a little bit more to keep getting your money" league. That's one of the reasons I left Canon for new equipment. Samsung did something really wrong by not marketing their new cameras/lenses properly after dong something really right (as opposed to Canikon) by giving us state of the art equipment. And they did it in secret.

It had to take years to develop the NX1 and S lenses, yet prior to 2014 there basically weren't that many real rumors about that development group. The first S lens came out earlier than Photokina in 2014, and there were hints of a 300mm prototype which led to some speculation of a "new" camera to go with them. But the actual announcement of the professional NX1 with its near complete list of state of the art features at Photokina took most by surprise.

So, again, I'll continue as devil's advocate. Maybe the NX1 and NX500 still weren't really the cameras Samsung wanted to put on the market. Maybe that secret development group is still somehow "parked" in secret and working on the cameras with the tech that will really challenge Canikon and Sony. So much so that Samsung is planning a huge marketing budget not only to go along with the announcement, but continuing as well.

And maybe unicorns do exist. And some how fly as well. After all, have you ever seen a unicorn that didn't fly?

OK, I'm finished stretching now. A little exercise feels good and puts one in a good state of mind. Especially when considering the actions of the "devil" that apparently abandoned us.

Ed
Click to expand...
Maybe a full frame, an NXF, with a new 18-55 2.8-4f FF kit lens and the 300mm, which was almost ready anyway. And a 24/1.4.
Click to expand...
Now, that would be exciting.
Kisaha said:
But seriously, do you take 20fps, 4K/60fps, 2K/240fps, plus better low light capabilities and IBIS, that I added, as marginal?!
Click to expand...
IBIS would not be marginal, as it would be a whole new feature. To me, the rest are to various degrees engine upgrades only based on finer lith on the latest SOCs allowing more headroom for the firmware.
Kisaha said:
Just read the leaked Canon 5D mkV video specifications, people are talking about 4K crop (like the new D500, do not forget) and I read in some articles that people consider the lack of H264, and H265 (I think that it is the very first time that mainstream media consider H265 as an advantage) as a serious disadvantage and archaic attitude!
Click to expand...
With Intel hinting that HEVC MAIN10 Profile Support will be native to its upcoming Kaby Lake (7th generation) chips this fall, that finally gives H265 more impetus in the mainstream.
Kisaha said:
I like the way you think though!
Click to expand...
About Unicorns? or cameras from Samsung? (Just kidding).

Ed
 
To preface my remarks, I don't like to make it a habit of commenting (speculating or issuing an opinion) on any cameras unless I've used them previously (or currently). I've shot with so many different cameras since 1998 when I first entered the scene that I've lost count of them all. I currently shoot with cameras from the Canon EOS M system, the Fuji X system, the Micro 43 system (both Oly and Panny), and of course the Samsung NX system.

Having said that, each brand somethings unique to the table. I, along with many others, have lamented the exit of Samsung from the camera scene - it's criminal really (especially the way they did it - no formal announcement - just a sleazy exit from the market without even an ounce of respect for current users).

As for any references to the late-to-the-game EOS M system, I'm enjoying the use of those cameras. I've embraced the format, using the M, M2, and M3 - and recently purchased the entry level M10 for my wife. And I've netted some absolutely wonderful images from that system. Can I list off a bunch of things I don't like about any particular M series camera? Why of course I can - after all, what camera (from any brand) doesn't have drawbacks? If you want to see an absolutely stellar optic, check out the Canon EOS M system's EF-M 11-22 wide angle zoom. It is a high end lens, exceptionally compact, and retails for only $399. I keep that one on my M2 all of the time because of it's outstanding performance.

As an aside, although I thought the M3 review was quite thorough, my results have been much better than that reviewer. I keep the wonderful Tamron 18-200 (the one made specifically for the EOS M system) on my M3 and I am pleasantly surprised at the clarity, contrast levels, and color capture qualities of that duo. I would have rated it much higher than the reviewer did. Of course, I shoot in RAW only. I never shoot in JPG mode.

So I can list a series of drawbacks from any of the camera systems I alluded to above - it's par for the course. The key is in the IQ department (at least for me, it is). I find all of the aforementioned cameras systems as being very capable in achieving superb IQ levels. What will different however, is the color tonality exhibited by the systems (some are slight, while others are major).

--
Semper Fidelis...


Bernd ("Ben") W. Herrmann
United States Marine Corps (Retired)
North Carolina, USA
 
Kisaha said:
Kisaha said:
  1. mangokid wrote:
There has been several speculations on why Samsung suddenly stopped working on the camera line.

I think the most convincing ones pertain to the back and forth lawsuits between Samsung and Apple, regarding the copyrights used in cell phones and touch screen technology.

Some time ago Apple won a big lawsuit, prompting Samsung to quit the camera division, rather than pay the rather punishing fees should they continue.

This is what I read, though I can't remember where or what links to provide.
Click to expand...
Sorry, but until you find a credible real person (with a surname) state this officially, it is just a bunch of..well, not true. And I can write more than thousand words (with a lot of political thinking in it!) to disagree with this bunch of..well, conspiracy theories.
Click to expand...
Hi Kisasha:

As I had said, it's only one of several speculations. Not anywhere did I state this as fact.

I found the one regarding tech copyright the most convincing, as it coincided with the ongoing lawsuits between Samsung and Apple.

But as you have asserted, it is still speculation, as there is no hard evidence, or credible persons to back it up.

I simply brought it up in case someone here has opinions or evidence to point either way.
 
MikeDPR said:
Actually the most interesting bit in that review for me was DPReview's assertion that Nikon 1 series is no longer being developed. Pretty big news and makes me go hmm...
Click to expand...
I shoot with the N1 system it's basically a fun upgrade to a P&S mainly for sunny daylight shooting. Nikon could have had winner in their hands but they went with 1st gen poor ISO sensor of Aptina, crippled it with slow f/5.6 zooms and buried it with MSRPs higher than any other mirrorless camera.

When I owned the canon M1 it was just a plain generic, slow as molasses camera, their 22mm F/2.0 lens was their only saving grace.

Samsung impressed me off the bat with their 30mm 60mm and 85mm lenses, great IQ, wi-fi connectivity, definitely much, much better than Nikon or Canon
 
mangokid said:
Kisaha said:
mangokid said:
  1. mangokid wrote:
There has been several speculations on why Samsung suddenly stopped working on the camera line.

I think the most convincing ones pertain to the back and forth lawsuits between Samsung and Apple, regarding the copyrights used in cell phones and touch screen technology.

Some time ago Apple won a big lawsuit, prompting Samsung to quit the camera division, rather than pay the rather punishing fees should they continue.

This is what I read, though I can't remember where or what links to provide.
Click to expand...
Sorry, but until you find a credible real person (with a surname) state this officially, it is just a bunch of..well, not true. And I can write more than thousand words (with a lot of political thinking in it!) to disagree with this bunch of..well, conspiracy theories.
Click to expand...
Hi Kisasha:

As I had said, it's only one of several speculations. Not anywhere did I state this as fact.

I found the one regarding tech copyright the most convincing, as it coincided with the ongoing lawsuits between Samsung and Apple.

But as you have asserted, it is still speculation, as there is no hard evidence, or credible persons to back it up.

I simply brought it up in case someone here has opinions or evidence to point either way.
Click to expand...
The simplest reasons are usually closer to reality. NX cameras didn't sell, at all. I have heard these rumors, but Samsung has overcome those lawsuits in the phone segmemt, I do not see that to apply to a system camera (very different than a mobile phone). Anyways, I hope we will learn at some point, it is one of technologies biggest mysteries!
 
Kisaha said:
tecnoworld said:
Totally true. I'll add that samsung could have done a nx1 mk2 just by using a newer exynos cpu, more memory and a marginally tuned up sensor, to achieve:

- 20fps

- 4k@60fps with less rolling shutter

- 2k@240fps

They didn't, even if the investment would have been really low. This is a bold statement of 'they are not interested anymore' theory.
Click to expand...
Totally true too! I add IBIS and better low light capabilities (basically just fine tuning the excellent BSI sensor, as you mentioned). The minimum investment makes me a bit optimistic for end of 2017, that maybe, just maybe we will see something from Samsung, or someone that "inherits" NX technology. That is too much tech to be forgoten.
Click to expand...
I dreamed for Samsung IBIS but it never happened...
 
I had EOS-M too and a year ago Canon gave me a M3 for test and review, and it was not impressive (they were not happy with my thoughts). At that time I just started using my NX300 - 2 years older, much cheaper, more lens choice and still better than M3!

This was the start of my moving with the NX.
 
if it was true, they must have stop selling phones too...

it is a slowing down market with poor chances of developement. I dont think we Will see soon a Sensor that double the performance of the nx1. So... Why stay and Fight a Battle with no winners?

--

Samsung NX tips

samsungnxtips.blogspot.com samsungnxtips.blogspot.com
 
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