Polarizer and ND filter size to buy

jomsjoms

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I am looking at these:

1) B+W 72mm XS-Pro Kaesemann High Transmission Circular Polarizer

2) Hoya 72mm ProND32 Filter

I have several lenses but I will mostly use this on my Sony 16-35 Lens which has a thread size of 72mm.

I have read though that I should get the 82mm version of the filters and just buy a step-up ring so that I can use the Polarizer/ND filter on all my lenses.

Would the step-up ring degrade the image quality of the photo significantly? Is this the best way to go about this and get the 82mm version of both filters and buy a step-up ring?

Thanks
 
I did that, but beware and buy good quality brass step up rings, they have a habit of being stuck on either the lens or filter
 
Some potential problems to be aware of when using larger filters with step-up rings:
  • On most lenses You will not be able to use the lens hood with larger filter attached. Without hood there's potentially more stray light entering the glass and causing flare. Not a major issue with polarizer, because hood blocks the filter rotation and you need to remove hood anyway;
  • Filter on step-up ring will be further away from front element, which might affect the flare;
  • Most of the cheap step-up rings are relatively poorly machined and typically made of aluminium. That increases the risk of jamming. You are probably better off buying more expensive "premium" rings with tighter machining tolerances and made of brass;
  • They add a bit of annoyance if you want to use a single filter on multiple lenses with different filter thread sizes simultaneously.
I really wish that Sony sticked to a single filter size for F2.8 zooms, like they did with the A-mount ones.

Before you buy, you need to consider how much you will be using them on each lens you have or might buy in immediate future. Not much point to buy a larger filter (82mm is quite a bit more expensive than 72mm) today for a lens you might get after a year or two.

If you plan to get SEL2470GM and SEL70200GM now, then you are in a tough spot. I already have 77mm filters from my A-mount zooms, but my SEL2470GM is arriving this week and my only 82mm filter is a 20 years old Sigma circular polarizer, which has green cast and does not polarize all that well...
 
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Some potential problems to be aware of when using larger filters with step-up rings:
  • On most lenses You will not be able to use the lens hood with larger filter attached. Without hood there's potentially more stray light entering the glass and causing flare. Not a major issue with polarizer, because hood blocks the filter rotation and you need to remove hood anyway;
I agree that this is an issue.

When using a polarizer, I remove the hood to adjust and then replace it before taking the shot. It's a minor nuisance, but I prefer it to flare. And the time a pol filter is most useful is when there is a strong directional light from the side, which is one of the times when you most need a hood.

If a step up ring is involved, an option to consider is fitting a hood that screws onto the front of the filter. For various reasons, that is likely to be less than perfect (the geometry of the hood, whether round, rectangular or petal, is unlikely to be optimal for whatever lens you're using), but better than no hood at all...
  • Filter on step-up ring will be further away from front element, which might affect the flare;
It might reduce flare slightly because of the geometry, but I think then effect will be minimal in most or all cases, and I can't say I've ever noticed any.
  • Most of the cheap step-up rings are relatively poorly machined and typically made of aluminium. That increases the risk of jamming. You are probably better off buying more expensive "premium" rings with tighter machining tolerances and made of brass;
While brass step rings are certainly better (though heavier...) I've found that using a very light touch - both when mounting and removing rings - greatly reduces jamming. The issue seems to be in part that any pressure causes light alloy rings to distort, which prevents them screwing/unscrewing smoothly. Brass, being less flexible than cheaper alloys, is less prone to this issue.
  • They add a bit of annoyance if you want to use a single filter on multiple lenses with different filter thread sizes simultaneously.
Yes. It's also a PIA to have to pull the filter off and transfer it to a different lens during a lens swap.

For all the above reasons, I have acquired and frequently end up carrying five pol filters (49, 67, 72, 77, 82) - which reduces some of the pain points, but adds others of its own (including the $$ tied up in having five decent filters in my kit, not to mention the added bulk).

A middle ground is probably best - ie get filters to fit the lenses you'll most often need them on, and step rings for others. If you factor in extra hoods to fit the filters, you may not save anything on bulk, but it will be a cheaper solution (i.e. cheaper than a full suite of pro quality filters).
 
Most of the cheap step-up rings are relatively poorly machined and typically made of aluminium. That increases the risk of jamming. You are probably better off buying more expensive "premium" rings with tighter machining tolerances and made of brass;
While brass step rings are certainly better (though heavier...) I've found that using a very light touch - both when mounting and removing rings - greatly reduces jamming. The issue seems to be in part that any pressure causes light alloy rings to distort, which prevents them screwing/unscrewing smoothly. Brass, being less flexible than cheaper alloys, is less prone to this issue.
I agree with this. I have found that the biggest problem is not applying rotation force on the entire filter evenly. Some filters that seemed hopelessly stuck by hand seemed to be easy to remove with the following procedure. Take a clean pair of rubber flip-flops with flat bottom and place the bottom of the flip flop against the filter. Slowly and evenly rotate the flip flop. This process has removed every filter/step up ring that I had a problem with. I bet those adjustable jar lid openers work well too.
  • They add a bit of annoyance if you want to use a single filter on multiple lenses with different filter thread sizes simultaneously.
Yes. It's also a PIA to have to pull the filter off and transfer it to a different lens during a lens swap.

For all the above reasons, I have acquired and frequently end up carrying five pol filters (49, 67, 72, 77, 82) - which reduces some of the pain points, but adds others of its own (including the $$ tied up in having five decent filters in my kit, not to mention the added bulk).

A middle ground is probably best - ie get filters to fit the lenses you'll most often need them on, and step rings for others. If you factor in extra hoods to fit the filters, you may not save anything on bulk, but it will be a cheaper solution (i.e. cheaper than a full suite of pro quality filters).
Does anyone still use Cokin-style mounts w/ filters? The biggest problem I suppose is not being able to use a lens hood?
 
I am looking at these:

1) B+W 72mm XS-Pro Kaesemann High Transmission Circular Polarizer

2) Hoya 72mm ProND32 Filter

I have several lenses but I will mostly use this on my Sony 16-35 Lens which has a thread size of 72mm.
Your SEL1635Z will vignette with a 77mm ND from 16mm to 17mm, from 16mm to 18mm with a POL, from 16mm to 20mm with ND+POL and I'm talking here about the thinner available filters - So definitively would recommend using the respective «Step-up ring" and going for - at least - 82mm if you want no vignetting from 16mm (up)...
I have read though that I should get the 82mm version of the filters and just buy a step-up ring so that I can use the Polarizer/ND filter on all my lenses.
I recommend 82mm, but remember that POLs are generally thicker than NDs...
Would the step-up ring degrade the image quality of the photo significantly? Is this the best way to go about this and get the 82mm version of both filters and buy a step-up ring?
Yes, step-up rings is the way to go and they don't degrade IQ, as they are only spacers - No lens/optics is used! ;)

...Just remember that the proprietary lens hood will not fit, thus you have to find an alternative solution/workaround! :)
All the best,
Pedro
 
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techjedi wrote

Does anyone still use Cokin-style mounts w/ filters? The biggest problem I suppose is not being able to use a lens hood?
I do. I use a Lee Seven5 system extensively with the Big Stopper and grads. The biggest problem, really, is space. Circular filters are small and fit neatly inside its protective box. I have three separate pouches for my Lee system... A small one for the adaptor rings, a pouch for the Big Stopper and a larger one for the rest of my of my filters and the filter holder. The advantage is the ability to easily adapt to different filter sizes and to add more filtration or a grad quickly.

That said, I also use a B+W 10 stop circular ND with step up rings. It's only a 58mm so I use it with my 49mm Sony lenses and my older Nikkors, which are all 52mm. If I know I'm going to only use my 28mm AiS on my D810 and my 55 on my A7R, I only take the circular one. I own a fancy B+W brass step up ring and a ton of cheap eBay aluminum one. In use I've never noticed a difference. Enough so that I don't use the B+W any more.

As for hoods, I've never bothered when doing any kind of work with NDP or polarizers. 20-30k long exposures and I've been fine. Not to say that one can't get problematic flare, just that I've never found that the conditions and light I work under problematic.



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--
Dave Sanders
 
techjedi wrote

Does anyone still use Cokin-style mounts w/ filters? The biggest problem I suppose is not being able to use a lens hood?
I do. I use a Lee Seven5 system extensively with the Big Stopper and grads. The biggest problem, really, is space. Circular filters are small and fit neatly inside its protective box. I have three separate pouches for my Lee system... A small one for the adaptor rings, a pouch for the Big Stopper and a larger one for the rest of my of my filters and the filter holder. The advantage is the ability to easily adapt to different filter sizes and to add more filtration or a grad quickly.
Quite true and the reason I went the "Circular + Step-up Ring" solution...
That said, I also use a B+W 10 stop circular ND with step up rings. It's only a 58mm so I use it with my 49mm Sony lenses and my older Nikkors, which are all 52mm. If I know I'm going to only use my 28mm AiS on my D810 and my 55 on my A7R, I only take the circular one. I own a fancy B+W brass step up ring and a ton of cheap eBay aluminum one. In use I've never noticed a difference. Enough so that I don't use the B+W any more.
I bought the same filter brand step-up rings for better (no excuses) compatibility - I believe I could perfectly live with "el-chipo" ones... :)
As for hoods, I've never bothered when doing any kind of work with NDP or polarizers. 20-30k long exposures and I've been fine. Not to say that one can't get problematic flare, just that I've never found that the conditions and light I work under problematic.
You can always use a hat, your hand or again a cheap general (compatible) rubber hood... :)
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--
Dave Sanders
As usual, great photos! ;)

All the best,
Pedro
 
As for hoods, I've never bothered when doing any kind of work with NDP or polarizers. 20-30k long exposures and I've been fine. Not to say that one can't get problematic flare, just that I've never found that the conditions and light I work under problematic.
You can always use a hat, your hand or again a cheap general (compatible) rubber hood... :)
You wear a hat?! : o

But seriously, hands and the objects they contain work passably well for a single flare source that's not too close to being in frame, but for multiple sources or sources very close to frame it gets very tricky, as I know from direct experience. ; )
 
I am looking at these:

1) B+W 72mm XS-Pro Kaesemann High Transmission Circular Polarizer

2) Hoya 72mm ProND32 Filter

I have several lenses but I will mostly use this on my Sony 16-35 Lens which has a thread size of 72mm.
Your SEL1635Z will vignette with a 77mm ND from 16mm to 17mm, from 16mm to 18mm with a POL, from 16mm to 20mm with ND+POL and I'm talking here about the thinner available filters - So definitively would recommend using the respective «Step-up ring" and going for - at least - 82mm if you want no vignetting from 16mm (up)...
To put this into context, I've found that there is very slight vignetting wuth the SEL1635Z in the farthest tips of the corners at 16-17mm using a 72mm circular polarising filter (Sony Zeiss branded). However it really is barely perceptible and easy to fix in post, however I find that I rarely choose to do so as I deem it unnecessary.

FWIW an example of an image taken at 16mm with the SZ 72mm circular polarising filter, in which I made *no* correction for vignetting during PP on is in my DPR gallery at:


As I said, barely perceptible and not something I've generally felt I needed to adjust for in post. YMMV.
 
As for hoods, I've never bothered when doing any kind of work with NDP or polarizers. 20-30k long exposures and I've been fine. Not to say that one can't get problematic flare, just that I've never found that the conditions and light I work under problematic.
You can always use a hat, your hand or again a cheap general (compatible) rubber hood... :)
You wear a hat?! : o
Seldom, but younger people use a hat or similar a lot, thus the reason for my suggestion/workaround... :)
But seriously, hands and the objects they contain work passably well for a single flare source that's not too close to being in frame, but for multiple sources or sources very close to frame it gets very tricky, as I know from direct experience. ; )
Of course a hood is better, but when you use "step-up rings + filters" you can't (easily) find a perfect match for the lens...
 
I am looking at these:

1) B+W 72mm XS-Pro Kaesemann High Transmission Circular Polarizer

2) Hoya 72mm ProND32 Filter

I have several lenses but I will mostly use this on my Sony 16-35 Lens which has a thread size of 72mm.
Your SEL1635Z will vignette with a 77mm ND from 16mm to 17mm, from 16mm to 18mm with a POL, from 16mm to 20mm with ND+POL and I'm talking here about the thinner available filters - So definitively would recommend using the respective «Step-up ring" and going for - at least - 82mm if you want no vignetting from 16mm (up)...
To put this into context, I've found that there is very slight vignetting wuth the SEL1635Z in the farthest tips of the corners at 16-17mm using a 72mm circular polarising filter (Sony Zeiss branded). However it really is barely perceptible and easy to fix in post, however I find that I rarely choose to do so as I deem it unnecessary.

FWIW an example of an image taken at 16mm with the SZ 72mm circular polarising filter, in which I made *no* correction for vignetting during PP on is in my DPR gallery at:

https://www.dpreview.com/galleries/4331313816/photos/3490650/rasor-sundown

As I said, barely perceptible and not something I've generally felt I needed to adjust for in post. YMMV.
 
I am looking at these:

1) B+W 72mm XS-Pro Kaesemann High Transmission Circular Polarizer

2) Hoya 72mm ProND32 Filter

I have several lenses but I will mostly use this on my Sony 16-35 Lens which has a thread size of 72mm.
Your SEL1635Z will vignette with a 77mm ND from 16mm to 17mm, from 16mm to 18mm with a POL, from 16mm to 20mm with ND+POL and I'm talking here about the thinner available filters - So definitively would recommend using the respective «Step-up ring" and going for - at least - 82mm if you want no vignetting from 16mm (up)...
To put this into context, I've found that there is very slight vignetting wuth the SEL1635Z in the farthest tips of the corners at 16-17mm using a 72mm circular polarising filter (Sony Zeiss branded). However it really is barely perceptible and easy to fix in post, however I find that I rarely choose to do so as I deem it unnecessary.

FWIW an example of an image taken at 16mm with the SZ 72mm circular polarising filter, in which I made *no* correction for vignetting during PP on is in my DPR gallery at:

https://www.dpreview.com/galleries/4331313816/photos/3490650/rasor-sundown

As I said, barely perceptible and not something I've generally felt I needed to adjust for in post. YMMV.
 
Does anyone still use Cokin-style mounts w/ filters? The biggest problem I suppose is not being able to use a lens hood?
I have Cokin Z-Pro holder, bunch of solid/grad NDs and adapter rings for most of my lenses. Frankly, I pretty much stopped using them after switching from DSLR to A7rII.

They are quite cumbersome to use or carry around and with high DR modern sensors and perhaps multiple exposures (either HDR or composite) you can achieve some of it in the post.

If absolutely needed, I have a black card with me, which I can use as a mask for exposures longer than a second. Same technique everyone used back in the age of darkroom when exposing paper in enlarger. Not as precise as grads in holder, but much faster and fun to do :)
 
Although I admit to not reading every single post in this thread, I will add this: Buy filter wrenches. They are inexpensive, light weight and will save your fingernails. Use the right tool for the job and you'll be rewarded with more time for taking photos.
 
Looks like none of you guys have heard about

Breakthrough photography filters . The latest reports put them at the top . I have switched , and they are the best built , color neutral bar none
Wow I just read some reviews and they seem to be impressive! I'm just curious though, how can a relatively small kickstarter company beat the R&D of big players like B+W, Hoya, Lee, Sinhgray, etc.

Anyway, I think I'll be getting the Breakthrough as my ND filter (3-stop and 6-stop then just stack them to get a 9stop).

Now I'm thinking if I should also get the Breakthrough X4 CPL Polarizer or should I still stick with the B+W 82mm XS-Pro Kaesemann High Transmission Circular Polarizer.

What do you guys think ?
 
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