Novice Shutterbug
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Great links! I'll have to send that guy three bucks for hosting a PDF of the manual for the Spotmatic. Very useful stuff!
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Need help with proper f-stop for ancient 35mm film camera on two wildly different shoots.
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Novice Shutterbug
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I didn't think of that. Replacement of the light seals probably can't be done in time. I'll just have to find out with a test roll of film.
Novice Shutterbug
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Good stuff here. I see that for outdoor shots with 400 ISO film a shutter speed of 1/250 is recommended for bright sunlight, overcast and cloudy conditions with adjustments in the aperture to compensate. It would certainly make things simpler if I can bracket a few shots without changing the shutter speed at all. Or, if I practice enough beforehand, bracketing might not be necessary except for getting the focus just right which can be challenging with the Spotmatic to say the least.NO NO NO ... I can't agree with that ...
This is for film with a speed of ASA 125. For higher ASA films, increase the shutter speed. For instance, for an ASA 400 film use the nearest shutter speed, which is 1/500.
For ISO 125 the shutter speed @ f/16 would be 1/125 .... so 1/250 would be 1-stop underexposed, (not good for film).
I suggest that OVER-exposure for film is better so I would suggest this chart for 400 ISO, (which is what he said he was intending to use anyway).
Note that negative film is just the opposite of digital -- or "slide" film, (where "over" exposure is an unforgivable NO-NO).
You attracted some good posters and their replies seem sound.
I would suggest that you need to forget about the hummingbird. When and if you learn how to take a picture of one, none of the lessons will translate to the wedding, where hummingbirds are unlikely to be invited. Concentrate on:
- Making sure the camera is sound; there are many problems w/ old film cameras
- Fixing any issues, like the meter or sticky lens iris blades
- Learning how to use the film camera to take portraits of humans
One approach you might consider is to take one of your automatic P&S cameras and set it to ISO 400 and take a picture of a scene, then look at the settings it used. Transfer them to the Pentax and you should get similar results. Experiment on all this WELL in advance of the wedding!
Novice Shutterbug
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Learning is what this is all about for me. Plus, I like the challenge.
LordKOTL
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1st off, my sincere condolences for being "volunteered" for a wedding.
2nd, Here's a few things to consider:
Looking at the charts for the Tokina lens, you've got between f/1.8 and f/16 (or 22, but I'll stick with the conservative f/16). With 400 ISO film and the old rule of making sure that you don't handhold shutter speeds slower than the reciprocal of focal length in mms (in your case, no slower than 1/60 with a 55mm lens), the combo of everything gives you a shooting envelope between a brightly-lit home interior at night (aperture opened to f/1.8 or f/2 and 1/60 shutter), and shooting on a bright, sunny day with sand or snow (f/16, 1/1000 shutter). Anything outside of that and you're gonna have a bad time.
So, ISO 400 and you're good.
As someone aforementioned, google the "sunny f/16 rule" and get it memorized as much as you can. if you can get your light meter working then great, but if you can't being able to work out settings as close as you can will go a long way.
Next, PRACTICE. You're going to need it. Practice within the approximate shooting conditions (i.e. ambient lighting) of the wedding--is it going to be in the open or in the shade? What's the weather supposed to be: Sunny or overcast? Try to approximate that.
As for the hummingbirds, my best guess offhand is an f-stop between f/8 and f/16--depending on the light and depending on whether or not you're shooting 1/500 or 1/1000 shutter speeds. If the hummingbirds are in shade or it's overcast you can open it up more but in that case you being stuck at ISO400 for the duration means you gotta stop down since at 1/1000 you won't be able to shoot a faster shutter.
But again, PRACTICE. Get some film and shoot/develop/refine because even though everything I've said is worked out through the math (and I've shot film only about a year ago on something as spartan as a Pentax K1000), there's no substitute for shooting, seeing what worked and what didn't, and then refining your process/settings.
Good luck and I hope this helped a bit.
Novice Shutterbug
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I'm not sure that is even possible with my little point-and-shoot (Nikon L-22), but it is sound advice and I'll give it a try. I think I'll also try to find a replacement battery for that light meter, too. That could come in very handy.
iancrowe
Senior Member
Hmmm...
I can't help thinking that you are making life difficult for yourself, trying to use an old film camera with battery issues for something as important as a family wedding. This may be one of those times when it is worth throwing a little money at the problem.
For $190 KEH will supply you with an 8Mpx Canon Rebel XT and either a EF-S 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 IS II lens or a EF 50 f/1.8 II lens (complete with a six month warranty) add $20 for a spare battery and 8GB compact flash card and you are good to go.
This means you can practice and get instant feed back at no extra cost. I would imagine the cost of buying and processing 5 or 6 rolls of film to practice with would go a long way to funding the above.
It means you will have access to a reasonably accurate built-in meter, built in fill flash, automatic bracketing and almost free film (you still have to pay for the compact flash to store the images on but you can delete the really bad ones there and then).
You're more likely to get good images at the wedding if you've had time to practice, a lot, and post images here asking "What did I do wrong?".
Ian
I can't help thinking that you are making life difficult for yourself, trying to use an old film camera with battery issues for something as important as a family wedding. This may be one of those times when it is worth throwing a little money at the problem.
For $190 KEH will supply you with an 8Mpx Canon Rebel XT and either a EF-S 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 IS II lens or a EF 50 f/1.8 II lens (complete with a six month warranty) add $20 for a spare battery and 8GB compact flash card and you are good to go.
This means you can practice and get instant feed back at no extra cost. I would imagine the cost of buying and processing 5 or 6 rolls of film to practice with would go a long way to funding the above.
It means you will have access to a reasonably accurate built-in meter, built in fill flash, automatic bracketing and almost free film (you still have to pay for the compact flash to store the images on but you can delete the really bad ones there and then).
You're more likely to get good images at the wedding if you've had time to practice, a lot, and post images here asking "What did I do wrong?".
Ian
Novice Shutterbug
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My sentiments exactly.
f/16 is the maximum stop-down for my lens.
According to that rule, it recommends a shutter speed of 1/500 for 400 ISO film with adjustments in the aperture from between f/16 for full sun to f/5.6 for cloudy with no shadows and f/11 and f/8 for in between conditions. Changing to 100 ISO film reduces the shutter speed to 1/125 with the same f-stops.
The wedding will likely be in the shade, but as to the weather conditions, that's anybody's guess.
I might just take another poster's advice and just forget the birds and take some stills of flowers and perhaps people instead. That would be better practice for this situation.
Thanks for the tips.
Novice Shutterbug
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Yeah, renting might be the way to go here. More for me to consider. I would like to see if that old Pentax still works, but I don't know if I can count on it for a wedding.
iancrowe
Senior Member
No. That's not renting, that's sold to you. You could probably sell it on again on Craigslist for $150+ after the wedding making the cost of the whole exercise about $60. Which is less than you are going to pay out for buying and processing the 5-6 36 exposure rolls of film you would need to just to learn how to use the Spotmatic. Never mind the cost of the film and processing for the actual wedding itself. Remember with film you wont know what you've got until after you've paid to have it processed and printed. At least with digital you can look at them on screen for free.
Ian
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AlbertTheLazy
Veteran Member
Fine. But don't expect much from the wedding pictures unless you do a lot of homework and at least 100 shots of practice before the day. And that is minimal.
The proper Mercury batteries are illegal to sell in the USA; sad but true. The replacements are Zinc-air batteries I think and are cheap. But they have an unstable discharge voltage as Joe explained and their life is short.
A trick is to remove the Zinc-air batteries and put tape on the air port; that will stop the chemical reaction and prolong their life dramatically. But it's a bother! They come with a round tape cover and some people save that and reuse it.
LordKOTL
Senior Member
Novice Shutterbug wrote:
On the off chance the wedding isn't as in the shade as much as you think it will be, ISO400 may handcuff you with a very stopped-down aperture. In open shade f/4 is the maximum you can go for ISO400 (with the 1/1000 max shutter speed), but if it becomes bright--Sunny f/16 bright, the best you can hope for is an f/11 aperture, and you may not be able to get the background blur you want. Even hazy sun you're limited to f/8. While that's not a killer, I'm sure for some of the wedding shots you'll want some background blur. Shooting ISO200 gives you that extra stop--so even in full sun you'll be able to shoot at f/8, while in open shade you can open to f2.8, which should blur the background nicely and since it is a wedding, even if the lens is a bit soft on the open-end for some portraiture that shouldn't be an image-killer. You'll still have the latitude to shoot about f/8 in deep shade which should have decent enough depth-of-field if you want to have less background blur (assuming a 1/60 shutter).
YMMV
No problem, but I have to correct myself. While ISO400 film will "get the job done", I think you might be better served shooting ISO200. Here's why I think so:
On the off chance the wedding isn't as in the shade as much as you think it will be, ISO400 may handcuff you with a very stopped-down aperture. In open shade f/4 is the maximum you can go for ISO400 (with the 1/1000 max shutter speed), but if it becomes bright--Sunny f/16 bright, the best you can hope for is an f/11 aperture, and you may not be able to get the background blur you want. Even hazy sun you're limited to f/8. While that's not a killer, I'm sure for some of the wedding shots you'll want some background blur. Shooting ISO200 gives you that extra stop--so even in full sun you'll be able to shoot at f/8, while in open shade you can open to f2.8, which should blur the background nicely and since it is a wedding, even if the lens is a bit soft on the open-end for some portraiture that shouldn't be an image-killer. You'll still have the latitude to shoot about f/8 in deep shade which should have decent enough depth-of-field if you want to have less background blur (assuming a 1/60 shutter).
YMMV
Novice Shutterbug
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Yeah, I was beginning to re-think the 400 ISO myself when capturing hummingbirds in flight no longer seemed so important to me. Good advice.
PhotoTeach2
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You can "test" the meter accuracy with "Sunny-16" rule. (@ f/16 by definition)
Set your ISO (on camera) to 500 (if you have that choice). Go outside on a "bright" sunny-day at around noon-1sh ... and point the camera at a (average) "GRAY" (equivalent) subject. (NOT "WHITE or BLACK")
And the meter should "zero" at approx. 1/500sec.
May I ask if you have a good understanding of Exposure Compensation and how to properly use it when you have a light "white" or dark "black" subject ???
You are aware that the cameras metering system is calibrated to only give the "correct" exposure when your subject is "gray" ??? (Kodak 18% gray to be specific.)
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Great Bustard
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I should think some test shots of people might be the better course.
tedolf
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You are not going to get any of this done with film (unless you really know what you are doing) without a flash.
For the wedding, get a Nissan auto flash (or similar), set the shutter to 1/60 and the f/stop to 5.6 and the flash to f/5.6. Focus and blast away as fast as the flash can recycle.
Other than that you are going to have to become a very experienced photographer very quickly.
For the humming bird, set the shutter speed at 1/60 and the aperture wide open. Take the photo's in the very late afternoon when it is not too bright so all the exposure comes from the flash. You will need a telephoto lens, 135mm. Fortunatley these are very cheap for your pentax.
tedolph
For the wedding, get a Nissan auto flash (or similar), set the shutter to 1/60 and the f/stop to 5.6 and the flash to f/5.6. Focus and blast away as fast as the flash can recycle.
Other than that you are going to have to become a very experienced photographer very quickly.
For the humming bird, set the shutter speed at 1/60 and the aperture wide open. Take the photo's in the very late afternoon when it is not too bright so all the exposure comes from the flash. You will need a telephoto lens, 135mm. Fortunatley these are very cheap for your pentax.
tedolph
baloo_buc
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Rent a proper camera and lens for the event. It may be cheaper and the results will be better. Have it before the event and practice some shots before. You can make any number of shots and correct very quickly with a digital camera.
Don't spoil the event with improper tools. Your attempt is to land on the moon with a dhow.
Don't spoil the event with improper tools. Your attempt is to land on the moon with a dhow.
Novice Shutterbug
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I'm quickly coming to the conclusion that you are correct. I don't want to be hamstrung with ancient equipment on the wedding day. Plus, the battery compartment on the Pentax is frozen, probably from a leaked battery, so the light meter is FUBAR. I am currently pricing entry-level DSLR bundles with 18-55mm kit lenses plus 55-250mm zoom lenses. That way I could stand off from the event a bit and still get some good close-ups. The only problem is I will have to sell some things on eBay to pay for it all since I think I'd rather buy than rent since it would give me more time to learn the new DSLR system before the big day (which is only about 5 weeks away). But, I think, the less time I waste on the old 35mm film Pentax the better.
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